Running,Rowing ,Cycling Versus Weight Training

Trev M

Hi all,
Let me preface my post by admitting Im trying to get back into the gym on a regular basis, Im a lapsed member of WW in Leopardstown.

I had a program drawn up over year ago , and to be honest it was only an hour long and never felt like it challenged me at all physically, it bored me to death and I wasnt motivated.

Anyway, teh motivation of carrying more than "a bit too much weight" now and Im heading to the gym two or three times a week and running for the most part until , well I cant run anymore. This is usually a 40 minute run on treadmill and I get about 7.5 kilometers or there about done(Im just startin out so ya know cut some slack:D)... I usually do about 15 mins cycle and/or 15 minutes rowing at a reasonable resistance and quick enough pace. After this Im usually pretty b*llixed cause Im clearly unfit and overweight.

I will loose weight over the next few months no doubt, I can usually apply myself when I get to a point. I figure I need to drop about 3 stone, which might sound drastic I dunno. I have scoped out the nutrition board and taken some advice on board there so Im sure that will help.

My question is should I do some weight training aswell? Will this help with the weight loss, or do I need to get the body in reasonable condition before even attempting to go near anyone for weight instruction?

Colm_OReilly

My question is should I do some weight training aswell? Will this help with the weight loss, or do I need to get the body in reasonable condition before even attempting to go near anyone for weight instruction?

You don't need to build up your aerobic capacity to start resistance training. Being able to run for 40 odd minutes you can definitely start weight training.

Spend time learning the squat and deadlift, in addition with the bench press and overhead press. Bodyweight exercises such as push ups, air squats, lunges, dips and pull ups will also help as well. I'm assuming WW has an assisted pull up/dip machine if you can't complete these.

Strength training will build more muscle, which is metabolically more active (takes more energy just to exist than flab) and also allows you to be more active throughout the day, when you're out of the gym.

The key thing is to work on technique, consistency, then intensity.

On your cardio. Try to get out of the line of thought that longer is better. Doing speed intervals with rest work will give you much more efficient benefit than plodding along for 40-60 minutes. You can get a better workout in 30 minutes doing interval/speed work.

If you've any other questions, let us know,
Col

rubadub

I went from almost 15stone to 13stone by cardio and diet alone, cycling and eating a bit better. I remained stable at 13stone until I started lifting. Lifting proved amazing for FAT loss. Then I went from 13 to 12stone by lifting, cardio and eating better. Then I have remained 12stone for ages now, but losing fat all the time.

Point is lifting proved excellent for losing FAT, but not for losing WEIGHT. Do not only measure weight when lifting, I added muscle and lost fat at the same rate. People were saying "dont lose any more wieght", when I had actually put on weight since last seeing them!

If you were not competing in sports, and your goal was losing fat, and you limited yourself to 3x60min workouts a week, then I think lifting alone would win hands down. Cardio would result in more weight being lost, but lifting will result in more fat being lost. And I would rather look like a thin sprinter than a thin marathon runner at the end of the day. I get my cardio in during daily life, walking/cycling everywhere etc. I have no need to set aside time to do it, and since cycling is faster than driving these day, I have more spare time. Actually the time I save by cycling vs driving is far greater than the time I spend lifting. So overall because I exercise (cardio +wieghts) I end up with more spare time on my hands.

Also do the wieghts first in the gym if you must mix weights & cardio. Keeping things simple this means you have more energy to lift, so tax the muscles more, resulting in more muscle development. When the muscles energy is spent- then do cardio. You will tend to burn fat at this stage since your muscles "fuel" is all gone.

Trev M

Cheers lads, really appreciate addressing the specifics of my post. It seems pretty confusing when youre starting out?.

Its encouraging to get the bit of support and without sounding like a tool Im the kinda person that needs a bit of direction when it comes to this , Im not naturally athletic... Im am fairly strong though so the weights would be good as a challenge I think.

My primary aim is definitely to loose weight first and foremost... but it sounds like a bit of resistence training hand in hand with the cardio is the way to go and would beneift my physical make up.



You seem to have figured my mentallity out straight away , I do tend to "go as long as possible" in an effort to work as hard as possible . So, regarding the interval training?

Should I say do a 5 minute sprint full on for example and then slow to a brisk walk until recovery? (Is that what you mean by rest work?)

Regarding learning to use weights and lift properly, yes definitely aware that technique is important to avoid injury. At this moment in time Im clueless, I'll have to enquire at the gym, Im sure WW have a guy who can instruct me?. Im also guessing stretching and improving flexibility comes into this somewhere?

cavanmaniac

rubadub wrote: »

Point is lifting proved excellent for losing FAT, but not for losing WEIGHT. Do not only measure weight when lifting, I added muscle and lost fat at the same rate. People were saying "dont lose any more wieght", when I had actually put on weight since last seeing them!

If you were not competing in sports, and your goal was losing fat, and you limited yourself to 3x60min workouts a week, then I think lifting alone would win hands down. Cardio would result in more weight being lost, but lifting will result in more fat being lost. And I would rather look like a thin sprinter than a thin marathon runner at the end of the day.

Intrigued by this. I've been going to gym for years now and I suppose as far as I've got is shedding a fair bit of weight and putting on some muscle, whcih is ok but I want more now. I look good in my clothes and get lots of compliments etc. but I really want to target body fat as a priority, so I can start to see whatever muscle I have and build some more too. With that in mind I do 3 x two hour sessions a week, mixed cardio and weights but emphasis on cardio. Alot of that two hours is stretching as well, a lesson learned the hard way over the years.

I previously did heavy cardio when starting out and the weight loss was dramatic, alas there was little or no muscle gains as I wasn't following diet rules etc. so I was basically a shrunken version of my former self with the lumpy bits in the same places. My diet is much better now but I was always told to concentrate on cardio to lower body fat, and then modify the programme to include more/heavier weights thereafter. I guess what you're saying is that if you do the right kind of weights exercises that involve groups of muscles, and lift heavy and often - perhaps more often than 3 times per week, then there's a possibility that you don't need to flog yourself so hard at the cardio (i.e. 20 mins cycle, 20 mins run, 5 min row, mostly all at 80% HR).

I'm intrigued because the instructor at the gym told me to ease off cardio a while ago and gave me a lower intensity, longer duration form of cardio, together with weights, and lo and behold I found I was putting on body fat. So I'm gone back to the tough cardio and it works better for shifting fat, for me anyway....

Trev M

What does you cardio consist of , if ya dont mind me asking?

I dont mind the running rowing and cycling at all, cant stand the cross trainer, strider type machines they just feel strange to me.

Trev M

(i.e. 20 mins cycle, 20 mins run, 5 min row, mostly all at 80% HR).

This 3 times a week?

celestial

So that is 6 hours of weights and cardio work each week cavanmaniac - for how long have you been doing that? You must be losing a fair bit of fat in any case, just doing that amount?

rubadub

cavanmaniac wrote: »

Intrigued by this. ....

well bodybuilders will do cardio to lose fat. But at that level they might be dropping from 10% to 3-5% BF. In which case cardio will help. Most here will also recommend a low carb/high protein diet.

The OP is carring a fair amount of fat, doesnt sound like you are. Sutdies show that if you are overwieght you can go on a calorie deficit and still build muscle, especially beginners to weights. Thing is if you are overwieght you are already in effect weight lifting! your own weight is being lugged around. It would be a shame to just do cardio and go on a deficit and lose that muscle you added along with the belly!

Beginners will put on muscle easier than advanced lifters. This building of new muscle burns a lot of calories, so it is easier to get a deficit. Also an overwieght person has a naturally larger basal metabolic rate anyway, just lugging around weight and keeping it warm and ticking over.

and lo and behold I found I was putting on body fat.

are you certain? i.e. are you being measured with calipers by the same person using the same forumlas each time? it is hard to gauge going just by a weighing scales. Could be added muscle, or creatine induced "water weight".

2hour sessions sound a bit long, and could be counterproductive, I am no expert though, somebody else might comment. But I do know some keep it to separate days, and some BBers avoid cardio as it can be detrimental to building muscle.

cavanmaniac

@Trev: Bike 5 mins 60%HR on bike, 10 mins 80%, 5 mins 70%, cool down
Treadmill, 3 mins 'ease in,' then 3.5-4k@80% HR
Row flat out until I have 1000m done, generally takes 4.30mins and the HR hits 86% approx

It's certainly comprehensive with weights interspersed, I like flitting between cardio and weights for variety's sake. I wouldn't be lifting very heavy or anything but I do back (pull downs, bentover row, assted chinups) legs (lunges, leg raises), biceps (cable curls, preacher curls) one day and triceps (pushdowns, kickbacks), shoulders (lateral raise and another one I can't think of the name) and chest (dumbell flys, pressups - [totally awful at pressups, I hide in the corner and collapse after ten lol] and cable crossover.

I throw in a few crunches as well if I feel like it. All the above three times a week, a diet not far short of perfect, 5/6 meals/snacks a day.

@celestial: Before I started the above about two months ago with the Xmas 'break' in between I was calipered and was 24% BF. I reckon I might be at 20/21 now at a push, I can see a few changes. I look as good as I ever have but I'm desperate to get the BF right down and then see if I can keep it down while building a bit more muscle, I'd like to build up just a bit and lose the godamn belly which has shrunk a good bit recently but is still sitting there with another bit on my back and moobs if I sit a certain way. You'd only see this with the shirt off though, unfortunately for Mrs. Cavanmaniac.

@rubadub
some of the better built guys in the gym never really seem to bother with cardio hence my intrigue at your original reply, they just do an hour's heavy lifting most weeknights and it does them. I reckon they're physiologically less disposed to storing fat than me, I come from a very flabby family of people with not much in the way of natural muscle. I'm wondering if I'm going about this the wrong waybut am a bit scared I'd actually increase BF if I taper off the cardio. I also sometimes wonder if I have to work mcuh harder than the average guy to see results but at the end of the day, I'm an amateur enthusiast really.

wasabi

@TrevM - definitely get lifting weights ASAP, I lost a good bit of fat with a combination of lifting, decent diet, and doing crossfit style cardio when I was ready for it. I would credit lifting as the biggest part of that. If you don't lift you'll lose muscle, and eventually end up slowing down your metabolism, which is shooting yourself in the foot - you'll find it a lot harder to keep the weight off after.

@Cavanmaniac, there's a theory that doing a lot of low-intensity endurance cardio, which primarily burns fat as a fuel source, just encourages your body to lay down more fat because it knows it'll need it.

Also, doing that amount of cardio wouldn't be helping the cause of building any muscle. You're scared of reducing the cardio, yet you've been at your current routing for a while and you don't like the results - so surely it'd be mad to keep doing the same as you are and expect different ones?

You could try lifting more and moving towards interval style cardio for a while? Hard cardio intervals won't encourage your body to store fat, and they tend to affect your hormones in such a way as to encourage fat loss and muscle growth. Look at sprinters!

There's also your diet to look at, of course.

Xavi6

Quick question guys, what would be considered a high body fat percentage? Mine was 19% a few months back but I'm slowly working on it.

Great advice by the way.

Trev M

Hi All ,
Great advice in this thread thanks to everyone who has contributed!

A lot of the mystery is slowly unravelling for me here. Much like Canamaniac I come from a bunch of flabsters which is why Ive been running till I feel like puking heheheh .

Clearly this is not doin me any favours. Ive contacted the gym and Im getting set up for a review and a new program so Im definitely gonna ask for a good balance of cardio and resistence (So I dont slow down the metabolism!). I have to say Ive never been so motivated and am looking to get to the gym any chance I get ... this is a HUGE turnaround for me.

I have one burning question , and to be honest ..... Im not looking forward to the answer. BEER?

I dont drink during the week in general , but friday I'll usually have a good few beers, :rolleyes: throwin 6 into me would be shooting on the low side:D. How much does a good aul friday night with the lads have an impact?

Trev

wasabi

Good stuff Trev.

The night on the beer won't be doing you any favours, that's for sure. You'd probably make progress faster if you cut it out. But if it's only once a week you should still be able to make alright progress, as long as you work hard in the gym and otherwise have the diet sorted. Your goals are modest enough really, you shouldn't need to live a totally Spartan lifestyle to get there.

Trev M

Well I think as a starting point Im gonna commit myself to getting in the gym on Saturday afternoons before 12.

I figure this will limit the amount I chuck into me on the friday..... If I make a balls of it well then I'll feel the pain on Saturday and "that'll learn me ....learn me good"!

rubadub

cavanmaniac wrote: »

@rubadub
some of the better built guys in the gym never really seem to bother with cardio hence my intrigue at your original reply, they just do an hour's heavy lifting most weeknights and it does them.

Well some would think cardio is counterproductive to muscle growth. Also many prefer a separate day for cardio. They might not do it in the gym at all. I see no need for cardio specific training for myself. I get it all in during daily life, cycling & walking everywhere, doing chores aroung the house etc. Maybe they are doing the same, or swimming or something on another day.

Also do these guys have low BF% or are they just big. Lifting is a great way for an overeater to lose some wieght and still eat what they want. They could still be 20%BF and just have a build of a bouncer or wrestler, better than being just a fat bloke.

I have one burning question , and to be honest ..... Im not looking forward to the answer. BEER?

No favours as mentioned. I still drink like a fish and never really cut down on my drinking habits anytime since I started losing fat. BUT since I lost weight I need less to get to my desired state (drunk!), so in that way my calorie intake is down. I am now down to a mere;) 20-25 pints a week, and still losing fat. I will never give up the booze. If you want a lower caloire option go for spirits and mix with diet mixers. The diet mixers actually quicken absorption so you get drunk on less. Beer has calories besides those coming from alcohol, while unsweetened spirits calories are all from alcohol.

You will hear people saying "dont drink on an empty stomach", this is usually advice to avoid getting too drunk, and to stop sickness. However if you goal is getting to a certain level of drunkeness, say 2-3 times the "legal limit", then drinking on an emtpy stomach will get you to that level with less pints/caloires. Also by planning on having an empty stomach you will have eaten less that day. You just have to learn when to stop and not drink your usual amount.

I am by no means saying that is the most healthy option, but it is what works for me.

Trev M

Heh long time since I was able to drink 25 pints a week hheh, I just love the few beers on a friday , these usually followed by junkfood, which is definitely out of the question now. Im not busting me balls all week to blow it with ****e food.

I reckon I will be eating now before I go out on friday otherwise I will end up eating crap....might mean I drink more but I'll take the xtra couple of brews over a kebab

Im not much on spirits .Normally Guinness during the winter, Heineken during the summer , the odd cider with ice. S'ppos the Guinness will have to go out the window now too.

BossArky

rubadub wrote: »

I am now down to a mere;) 20-25 pints a week, and still losing fat. I will never give up the booze.

Off topic - You seriously have that many pints a week? Is this all on a Friday/Saturday, or spread evenly throughout the week?

Dragan

Trev,

i train regularly in Westwood so if you ever want to do a weights session together by all means just drop me a PM.

Trev M

Pm Sent

Dragan wrote: »

Trev,

i train regularly in Westwood so if you ever want to do a weights session together by all means just drop me a PM.