Getting a BER done in the north west

Lynch32

Hi muffler,
hopefully you might be able to help me out here. I am interested in getting a BER done from my plans. Just to see what grade its coming in at and also if they can recommend how i can achieve a higher grade.

Could u recommend a registered BER engineer in the north west?
Cheers
Lynch32

Mellor

There should be an SEI approached list on thier website

Lynch32

Thanks mellor, I got a the list from the sei site. However if anybody can recommend one they know too be good that would also be helpful. A recommendation is always good.

Cheers
Lynch32

muffler

Apart from the list you have I dont really know anyone independent. A couple of colleagues (rivals ) would have a technician in their respective offices who who would work for the firm only - dont know if they would take anything on privately or not.

Until it gets into full swing there wont be a demnd for it obviously but after that there should be a few to chooses from.

If I come across someone I will PM you with details

Lynch32

Thanks Muffler for the response. I've already got a contact from the list (sei) and have been in contact with him. He "seems" to know his stuff and I've already emailed him my plans.
Cheers
Lynch32

Gumbo

im starting my course next month to become a BER assessor, so i will give you a shout if i pass LOL i said if!

smashey

Lynch32 wrote: »

Thanks Muffler for the response. I've already got a contact from the list (sei) and have been in contact with him. He "seems" to know his stuff and I've already emailed him my plans.
Cheers
Lynch32

Lynch32, could you pm me the guys details please?

Thanks.

holdfast

Hello all

I guess I have a chip on my shoulder. But everyone has done this course and some have no understanding of building physics, but have just bluffed there way on to the course. Also a bit of advice, he or she should visit the house and make sure the details you are giving are correct. After all he or she is the “technical person” and they can make the call which can make the difference between A and a B. They should have some relevant building experience (years) or qualification but preferable both. They should also have PI so if the rating you get is later proved wrong you can claim off them. Remember getting a BER cert is just saying the house was designed to give this rating and may not be built to that standard. Just be careful most professionals or experience trades people could charge the rate most cowboys are charging. The SEI are ignoring the big white elephant in the corner that the BER is a money making racket and most certs will be a load of B**l*hit

sorry for the rant but you are paying for a service and should get the correct rating.

ardara1

holdfast wrote: »

Hello all

I guess I have a chip on my shoulder. But everyone has done this course and some have no understanding of building physics, but have just bluffed there way on to the course. Also a bit of advice, he or she should visit the house and make sure the details you are giving are correct. After all he or she is the “technical person” and they can make the call which can make the difference between A and a B. They should have some relevant building experience (years) or qualification but preferable both. They should also have PI so if the rating you get is later proved wrong you can claim off them. Remember getting a BER cert is just saying the house was designed to give this rating and may not be built to that standard. Just be careful most professionals or experience trades people could charge the rate most cowboys are charging. The SEI are ignoring the big white elephant in the corner that the BER is a money making racket and most certs will be a load of B**l*hit

sorry for the rant but you are paying for a service and should get the correct rating.

Evidence of build quality is specifically written into the latest Part L Revision

QUALITY & COMMISSIONING OF SERVICES -
The requirements of Part L apply to the completed
building. Reasonable measures should be taken during
construct ion and appropriate checks and assessments carried
out prior to completion to ensure that compliance with Part L
is achieved. Paragraphs 5.2 to 5.4 give guidance on
appropriate measures to satisfy this requirement....

...On-site quality control should include checks on the adequacy of insulation installation and of any barriers designed to limit air
permeability, including an inspection of finished work to
ensure that al l work is properly constructed before covering
over.
THERMAL BRIDGING
care should be taken to ensure that the chosen design detail is accurately constructed on site.

The following represents reasonable provision in this regard and, if
followed, standard allowance for thermal bridging can be used in DEAP
calculations:
adopt standard details set out in [ document on Standard Details to Limit
Thermal Bridging and Air Infiltration to be prepared and updated from
time to time by relevant construction industry bodies, in consultation with
DOEHLG – this document to be similar in scope to Accredited
Construction Details published by DCLG, England & Wales] THESE MUST BE SIGNED OFF

, including
the on-site inspection regime and related quality control procedures set
out in that document; or
b) Use details and quality control procedures calculated to provide an
equivalent level of performance as if the standard details and quality
control procedures referred to in a) above were used. It is not intended
that the guidance in the document referred to in (a) above will be
exhaustive and designers and builders may employ well-established
details using other materials that are equally suitable. However if such
details are used, performance must be supported by certification

AIR TIGHTNESS
On each development, an air pressure test should be carried out on at
least one unit of each dwelling type....

...Where further remedial works to
reduce air permeability are undertaken, a further test would be necessary to
verify revised air permeability figure to be used in revised DEAP calculations.

COMMISSIONING OF SPACE & WATER HEATING SYSTEMS:
The heating and hot water system(s) should be commissioned so that at
completion, the system(s) and their controls are left in the intended working order and can operate efficiently for the purposes of the conservation of fuel and power. The procedure for carrying out commissioning of these systems is set out in [“—Ref doc---------“]

250882

I'm an architectural technician(degree from WIT, 1 whole year learning about sustainable building) with a couple of years experience, done the BER course,came highest in class, but unfortunately most of my BERs were low ratings (Ironically the people getting the highest ratings were the auctioneers & estate agents, Don't know why!!!)
None of the assessments done by the 20 or so members of the class were the same even though we had the same information and were working off the same plans. The houses were varying from C to A. There are a lot of assumptions made, standard values etc. and to get the cert you had to know nothing about building practice(they even taught us how to calculate u-values wrong)

sydthebeat

ratings differing from C's to A's is madness...!!!!
you wouldnt mind some differentiation between say c1-c3... but theres something seriously wrong if one assessor gets a C rating and another gets a A....... did anyone fail your course 250882???

Was the course SEI approved??... was it through GMIT???

whilst there is room for differentiation in the measurement off the plans. there should not be too much differentiation in the actual selected inputs ie the heating system, window types etc.

It should actually work out that the more specific information you give, the better your rating will be. Ive just spent the last 3 days trying to write up a simple comprehensive questionnaire, theres a huge amount of information to be supplied by clients and developers.

holdfast

Sorry ardara I dont understand what quoting the regs to me is meant to be. I am not trying to be smart. But if you mean the house should be built to part L that is a given but does not all ways happen sorry if I have misread your point.

sydthebeat

holdfast wrote: »

Sorry ardara I dont understand what quoting the regs to me is meant to be. I am not trying to be smart. But if you mean the house should be built to part L that is a given but does not all ways happen sorry if I have misread your point.

Holdfast... yes it is an issue that the BER assessor doesnt have to have any first hand knowledge of the construction. It would be a much better system if they did, but is it practical???? Would the assessor have to visit the build at say 10 times during the course of work??? what would that do for costs??? the client is already paying upwards of €1500 for the certification, which usually only requires 5-6 visits... does the assessor charge the client €2000???
It has been decided that the assessment is done off plans and particulars provided, in doing so it is the responsibility of the client / developer to provide accurate truthful information. This is the systems as required by the european directive so thats what has been enacted.

holdfast

No the BER assessor I believe should visit the site once to assess the sheltering of the property, drawings are correct and satisfy themselves that the information is correct. Because they are the technical expert and they could not expect to rely on the word or the written statement from a average Joe soap. This would not carry an weight in any legal standing. Be under no mistake if people feel they got the wrong rating and it is proved they will look for a scapegoat. That is the way I intend to do my BER assessments ( I am not getting on my high horse) but if it turns out the case if the value of a B rating a C rating is 20000 euro I don’t want anyone coming after me to say my rating was incorrect. Probably it’s a personality trait never trust anyone and I will be telling people that when I tell them the cost. Glad to see someone else sees the problem with people not having the knowledge.

sydthebeat

i completely agree that thats the way it 'should' work... but the fact is it doesnt have to. I have had quotes from 'BER Experts' forvery low figures, but all they want is a copy of the plans and a filled in questionnaire.... this isnt a good system IMHO....

I am an architectural Technician as well, and i or someone from the office will be visiting the sites periodically anyway, so i will know whats incorporated... but if someone from say Kerry engages me.. im not going to drive down there to see a completed dwelling and whatever shelter there is around it... thats pointless.
Are you going to measure every room, every ope, every height, every separating distance to see they comply with what was given to you??? How are you going to ensure what, if any, insulation is hidden in the construction???
It will quickly become apparent to you that you will not be able to compete in the market if you spend so much time traveling and measuring.

A better process is to supply the client / developer with the list of information needed before construction begins, therefore they can keep an update account of everything used. It is their responsibility to provide truthful information.

ardara1

holdfast wrote: »

Sorry ardara I dont understand what quoting the regs to me is meant to be. I am not trying to be smart. But if you mean the house should be built to part L that is a given but does not all ways happen sorry if I have misread your point.

Yep Holdfast - you've mis-read my point - it doesn't matter what way it's built - it's HOW IT'S MEASURED - and those guys out here that are completing DEAPS and Energy Lables would need to be fully aware of not accuratley reflectling HOW a house was ACTUALLY built and ask for full EVIDENCE of what was inputted into the'r calcs - again more quotes from SI (Sorry!)

Building owner/agent..fails to produce (for Building Control or Authority).. printed copy of the BER … within 28 days after … commits an offence.
failure by the BER assessor to carry out a building energy performance assessment for BER purposes in a fit and proper manner, or to maintain or provide satisfactory data, documentation or records of any such assessment, …
A person who purporting to give information to a BER assessor, an issuing authority or an authorised officer for the performance of his or her functions under these Regulations-
(a) makes a statement that he or she knows to be false or misleading in a material particular or recklessly makes a statement which is false in a material particular, or (b) fails to disclose a material particular


…..is liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding €5,000, or a to term of imprisonment not exceeding 3 months, or to both fine and imprisonment

Lynch32

smashey wrote: »

Lynch32, could you pm me the guys details please?

Thanks.

Sorry Smashey, as i am relatively a new user i don't know how to PM
I am more than happy to give u his deails if you let me know to pm you
Thanks

smashey

Lynch32 wrote: »

Sorry Smashey, as i am relatively a new user i don't know how to PM
I am more than happy to give u his deails if you let me know to pm you
Thanks

Click on my name and select the option "send a private message to smashey".

Just insert a title in the little box and type your message in the bigger one below.

Thanks.

Mellor

holdfast wrote: »

No the BER assessor I believe should visit the site once to assess the sheltering of the property, drawings are correct and satisfy themselves that the information is correct. Because they are the technical expert and they could not expect to rely on the word or the written statement from a average Joe soap. This would not carry an weight in any legal standing. Be under no mistake if people feel they got the wrong rating and it is proved they will look for a scapegoat. That is the way I intend to do my BER assessments ( I am not getting on my high horse) but if it turns out the case if the value of a B rating a C rating is 20000 euro I don’t want anyone coming after me to say my rating was incorrect. Probably it’s a personality trait never trust anyone and I will be telling people that when I tell them the cost. Glad to see someone else sees the problem with people not having the knowledge.

What if all your measure ments are correct, spot on to the mm. And you calculate a B rated house, but due to sloppy building the house performs at a C or worse. Whose fault is that? Who is to blame, who take the hit.

sinnerboy

ardara1 wrote: »

Yep Holdfast - you've mis-read my point - it doesn't matter what way it's built - it's HOW IT'S MEASURED - and those guys out here that are completing DEAPS and Energy Lables would need to be fully aware of not accuratley reflectling HOW a house was ACTUALLY built and ask for full EVIDENCE of what was inputted into the'r calcs - again more quotes from SI (Sorry!)

Building owner/agent..fails to produce (for Building Control or Authority).. printed copy of the BER … within 28 days after … commits an offence.
failure by the BER assessor to carry out a building energy performance assessment for BER purposes in a fit and proper manner, or to maintain or provide satisfactory data, documentation or records of any such assessment, …
A person who purporting to give information to a BER assessor, an issuing authority or an authorised officer for the performance of his or her functions under these Regulations-
(a) makes a statement that he or she knows to be false or misleading in a material particular or recklessly makes a statement which is false in a material particular, or (b) fails to disclose a material particular


…..is liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding €5,000, or a to term of imprisonment not exceeding 3 months, or to both fine and imprisonment

There SEEMS to be a contradiction here A1 . The burden , which I have underlined is on the owner , not the assessor to confirm spec / build quality .

A good assessor will spot not only gaps in information but will fairly quickly home in on non TGD L compliances .

I too completed ( passed ) a BER course ( I am in my mid 40's arch tech ) . It was tough going for me . There were 2 estate agents whose brains were totally melted . Christ on a bike if guys like that actually make it through .

We were taught how to calculate U values - wrongly .

My fear is that knowledgable and tenacious BER lablers will be pushed aside by the market . If you were selling your house would you want ( to pay more for ) a fussy middle aged arch tech to lable it , or a flash young ( clueless ) estate agent , who will "lash out" the "right" lable ;)

for the system to work properly it will have to be rigourously policed and enforced - just like our building control system is .........:rolleyes:

alternatively ..... if the buyer was obliged to get the cert ..... now that would be a real way to get more conservative ( and tending towards more accurate ) certs ....

sydthebeat

Surely theres a conflict of interest if estate agents are doing BERs on properties they may end up selling renting etc????
They may profit financially by giving a higher rating... this cannot be allowed.

ardara1

THe owner must produce a 'cert'

The responsibility of producing a tru cert is on the assessor - any information given to him by the architect or the builder must not be false.

If performance of a particular part of the build cannot be certified, or evidence produced - default figures for performance must be taken from Part L - 0.11 for Y values on thermal bridging. 15 for permeability, glazing from table - they're all really bad - but they must be used by the assessor - you'll never get past a C rating using the default values.

sinnerboy

sydthebeat wrote: »

Surely theres a conflict of interest if estate agents are doing BERs on properties they may end up selling renting etc????
They may profit financially by giving a higher rating... this cannot be allowed.

There is if agent is directly invloved in the deal - but agents from adjacent towns will "do each others" patches and get around it that way

sinnerboy

ardara1 wrote: »

The responsibility of producing a tru cert is on the assessor - any information given to him by the architect or the builder must not be false.
.

Round and round we go - do you not get my point A1 ?

The point was made on the course I attended - to simplify - assessor receives spec form architect or builder , in form of written statement saying in so many words " this is the built building" . Assesor just has desk job to do .... no visit required .

now , I don't like this at all ......

ardara1

sinnerboy wrote: »

Round and round we go - do you not get my point A1 ?

The point was made on the course I attended - to simplify - assessor receives spec form architect or builder , in form of written statement saying in so many words " this is the built building" . Assesor just has desk job to do .... no visit required .

now , I don't like this at all ......

As an assessor, I would be happy with getting the written confirmation from architect/builder stating "this is the built building" but along with that I'd wanted evidence of the accredited detail, U-value calcs from the supplier, an ATTMA controled air pressure test result and a set of comissioning papers from the services installer - if I didn't get any of these - revert back to default values. If later when I'm chased by a retired architect or technician who's found out that the house he paid for is a B3 and not an A3 and goes to sue me - I can go back to the builder/acrhitect who then becomes the person that - 'makes a statement that he or she knows to be false or misleading in a material particular or recklessly makes a statement which is false in a material particular, or (b) fails to disclose a material particular


…..is liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding €5,000, or a to term of imprisonment not exceeding 3 months, or to both fine and imprisonment

It's called covering your ass - it's all you can do.

Builderfromhell

sinnerboy wrote: »

There SEEMS to be a contradiction here A1 . The burden , which I have underlined is on the owner , not the assessor to confirm spec / build quality .

A good assessor will spot not only gaps in information but will fairly quickly home in on non TGD L compliances .

I too completed ( passed ) a BER course ( I am in my mid 40's arch tech ) . It was tough going for me . There were 2 estate agents whose brains were totally melted . Christ on a bike if guys like that actually make it through .

We were taught how to calculate U values - wrongly .

My fear is that knowledgable and tenacious BER lablers will be pushed aside by the market . If you were selling your house would you want ( to pay more for ) a fussy middle aged arch tech to lable it , or a flash young ( clueless ) estate agent , who will "lash out" the "right" lable ;)

for the system to work properly it will have to be rigourously policed and enforced - just like our building control system is .........:rolleyes:

alternatively ..... if the buyer was obliged to get the cert ..... now that would be a real way to get more conservative ( and tending towards more accurate ) certs ....

Just read the whole thread and it seems to me your suggetsion 'Buyer pay for Cert.' makes the most sense. A few years ago I used to do Site suitabliity tests for septic tanks. The person paying me wouyld also be the person getting the pass or fail results. Obviously there was much pressure to pass borderline cases.

Builderfromhell

ardara1 wrote: »

As an assessor, I would be happy with getting the written confirmation from architect/builder stating "this is the built building" but along with that I'd wanted evidence of the accredited detail, U-value calcs from the supplier, an ATTMA controled air pressure test result and a set of comissioning papers from the services installer - if I didn't get any of these - revert back to default values. If later when I'm chased by a retired architect or technician who's found out that the house he paid for is a B3 and not an A3 and goes to sue me - I can go back to the builder/acrhitect who then becomes the person that - 'makes a statement that he or she knows to be false or misleading in a material particular or recklessly makes a statement which is false in a material particular, or (b) fails to disclose a material particular


…..is liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding €5,000, or a to term of imprisonment not exceeding 3 months, or to both fine and imprisonment

It's called covering your ass - it's all you can do.

I wonder how helpful the Architect's or Engineer's will be. People often fall out with their Architect's before or during house build. Would it be reasonable for Architects to charge for providing as built drawings abd specification.

ardara1

Builderfromhell wrote: »

I wonder how helpful the Architect's or Engineer's will be. People often fall out with their Architect's before or during house build. Would it be reasonable for Architects to charge for providing as built drawings abd specification.

The true story here is this -

You could spend a fortune on renewable and technologies and the like - the house is built badly and the investment is useless.

Or - you get somebody on site inspecting the build quality and making sure the DESIGN is implemented - whether this is the architect or the old fashion 'clerk of works - THIS will save you more energy/carbon/money than any ground source heat pump/windmill/solar panel that you might buy.

An architect should be attending the job from design to completion - but it should be paid for.

(PS - I'm not an architect!)

sydthebeat

ardara1 wrote: »

An architect should be attending the job from design to completion - but it should be paid for.

(PS - I'm not an architect!)

i completely agree and have often made that very point. The 'building control' of construction in ireland is a joke. The councils, whose remit it is, are severly under resourced in this area... and consider 1 vist to 10-15% of new builds a 'success'... what a farce!!!
There is no legal requirement for a client to engage a professional to ensure that a dwelling is built 'correctly'. Sure, they have to engage someone to sign off mortagage payments to show certification with building regs... but this doesnt take best practise into account... it doesnt take simply building physics into account either. And what if a client builds a house without needing a mortgage??? theres no legal requirement for them at all....!!!!
either the councils should come clean and admit they cannot satisfactorily provide a buildign control service, or they should be resourced so that they can provide a full building control supervision service... but neither will happen.....

just on the point of 'buyers paying for the cert'..... this shouldnt matter because if the assessor considers themselves as 'working for' the client then they are incorrect. they are holders of a government licence and issue certs on behalf of the government, not on behalf of the client. The client pays a fee the same way they pay a television licence fee, or car tax etc. This should be made clear in any letter of engagement between the assessor and the client.

holdfast

Yes the assessor should be working independent. But at this stage we don’t know what the difference an A rating a B will be in money terms. But I bet if it’s a lot there will be a case for the BER cert to be reviewed to strengthen their hand in purchase of the building. The difference will be the cost of the survey versus the saving which could be expected. It may be the same as a structural survey in coming years. Some clients may be willing to pay for these services. I will be offering this service.

ardara1

holdfast wrote: »

Yes the assessor should be working independent. But at this stage we don’t know what the difference an A rating a B will be in money terms. But I bet if it’s a lot there will be a case for the BER cert to be reviewed to strengthen their hand in purchase of the building. The difference will be the cost of the survey versus the saving which could be expected. It may be the same as a structural survey in coming years. Some clients may be willing to pay for these services. I will be offering this service.

Your DEAP calc works out exactly what the cost of your energy is in ther results - if you know how many KW/hrs you use - you go to the SEI web site to get the piblished monthly cost average (about 8c/kw/hr) it's easily worked out manually - but it's on the reults anyway.

I've been playing with getting a few houses to the new Part L - take the semi -

06 regs - 3 bed semi - C1 - €660/annum
08 regs - same semi - B2 - €445/annum
Improved - same semi - A3 - €332/annum

sydthebeat

holdfast wrote: »

Yes the assessor should be working independent. But at this stage we don’t know what the difference an A rating a B will be in money terms. But I bet if it’s a lot there will be a case for the BER cert to be reviewed to strengthen their hand in purchase of the building. The difference will be the cost of the survey versus the saving which could be expected. It may be the same as a structural survey in coming years. Some clients may be willing to pay for these services. I will be offering this service.

You will not be able to survey a completed dwelling to assess all aspects of the BER. You will only be able to compare measurements and visual particulars, which will not be enough for you to prepare a revised BER calculation. In fact if you tried, you would probably end up with a more inaccurate rating. The process you will have to adhere to has not been decided yet. It will come into effect from 1st jan 2009 for second hand homes.
I have seen a trend lately where solicitors want certs of compliance 'certified' by separate certifiers, which is a ridiculous situation... the only way of certifying a certifcate is to do a new cert on it anyway. This situation may become applicable to BER ratings as well, a new one may be requested at every transfer of a home after 1st jan 2008.

sinnerboy

sydthebeat wrote: »

just on the point of 'buyers paying for the cert'..... this shouldnt matter because if the assessor considers themselves as 'working for' the client then they are incorrect. they are holders of a government licence and issue certs on behalf of the government, not on behalf of the client. The client pays a fee the same way they pay a television licence fee, or car tax etc. This should be made clear in any letter of engagement between the assessor and the client.

shouldn't matter but will STB . you can do all the "pointing out" ( pretty client un freindly tack ) but I am convinced that some clients will send in 2 or 3 assessors , pick the "best" one and two fingers to those who got it "wrong" .

think about it . most will encounter the requirement for a BER cert for the very first time at point of sale or letting . they will resent it . they are literally losing their interest in the property and will be motivated only to receive the best rating possible to maximise the sale price / rent value . what is your honest expectation ?

sydthebeat

If 3 provisional or even final BERs are done on the same property this will be reflected in the DEAP calculations and *should* be flagged by the SEI. If 3 bers for one property show serious differences then somebody is not doing something correctly.

I have the same reservations as you about the requirements to police this process..... they need to seriously oversee the applications and do regular spot checks and audits.

The only thing we can do as assessors is to sustain the highest professional ethics as possible, and point out the possible pitfalls to clients if another assessor is 'offering' high ratings.....

ardara1

sinnerboy wrote: »

shouldn't matter but will STB . you can do all the "pointing out" ( pretty client un freindly tack ) but I am convinced that some clients will send in 2 or 3 assessors , pick the "best" one and two fingers to those who got it "wrong" .

think about it . most will encounter the requirement for a BER cert for the very first time at point of sale or letting . they will resent it . they are literally losing their interest in the property and will be motivated only to receive the best rating possible to maximise the sale price / rent value . what is your honest expectation ?

The MPRN (Meter point reference number) and planning reference numberneed to be input into all calcs - if they're repeated from different assessors - they will be picked up.

sinnerboy

STB , AI - I agree , best foot forward is the way to go as you are saying .

I am just a tad pessimistic that the better job an assessor does ( to be accurate and diligent ) , he may be perceived to be "tough" and may lose business as a result .

If working for the buyer ..... ( ok enough circular rant )

Slates

What happens if you dont get a cert on a new build ?

Gumbo

Slates wrote: »

What happens if you dont get a cert on a new build ?

on new builds which have been granted planning permission after jan 1 2007, it is a legal requirement for it to have one.

it may bee needed to sell it by your solicitor or the bank may insist on it to draw down your mortgage.

sinnerboy

kceire wrote: »

on new builds which have been granted planning permission after jan 1 2007, it is a legal requirement for it to have one.
.

........at point of sale or letting . If sold off plans - provisional cert if sold when built - cert . Sold off plans will require 2 certs so

sydthebeat

kceire wrote: »

on new builds which have been granted planning permission after jan 1 2007, it is a legal requirement for it to have one.

it may bee needed to sell it by your solicitor or the bank may insist on it to draw down your mortgage.

just a small point. its houses 'applied' for permission after 1st jan 2007... not 'granted'....

I have been in touch with solicitors and auctioneers and no body knows at what point, and by who, the BER is requested. the solicitor was able to tell me that, to the best of her knowledge, the law society handt sent out any circulars on it yet.

I am awaiting clarification on this.

Slates

sydthebeat wrote: »

just a small point. its houses 'applied' for permission after 1st jan 2007... not 'granted'....

I have been in touch with solicitors and auctioneers and no body knows at what point, and by who, the BER is requested. the solicitor was able to tell me that, to the best of her knowledge, the law society handt sent out any circulars on it yet.

I am awaiting clarification on this.

I sent my self-build planning application in before Christmas and hope to start building in April. When will I need the cert to start building ? and if I dont need the cert to start building why the hell should I pay to get one as I will never be selling the house ?

muffler

Slates wrote: »

and if I dont need the cert to start building why the hell should I pay to get one as I will never be selling the house ?

In all fairness this forum is not the place to ask that question - try the DOE or your local TD.

sydthebeat

Slates wrote: »

I sent my self-build planning application in before Christmas and hope to start building in April. When will I need the cert to start building ? and if I dont need the cert to start building why the hell should I pay to get one as I will never be selling the house ?

if you sent it in in december 2007 then you require a BER. It is required for all dwellings applied for planning after 1st jan 2007.

You are only required to get a certificate after the completion of the construction, before you occupy the dwelling. There is a facility to get a provisional BER done before you start, which will then advise you on how to get a better rating during the construction, but from the tone of your post it doesnt seem like you would be interested in such a service.

Every new house requires a rating done, by law.... same as white goods require ratings, electrical fitting, etc and soon enough cars will require ratings as well.

Mellor

Slates wrote: »

I sent my self-build planning application in before Christmas and hope to start building in April. When will I need the cert to start building ? and if I dont need the cert to start building why the hell should I pay to get one as I will never be selling the house ?

firstly, a family member may be selling the house in the future. Secondly, selling or letting only really applies to housing stock, as the energy requirement cant really be changed.

And finally, the reason you need a BER is to show that your house does not use excessive energy.

Slates

sydthebeat wrote: »

if you sent it in in december 2007 then you require a BER. It is required for all dwellings applied for planning after 1st jan 2007.

You are only required to get a certificate after the completion of the construction, before you occupy the dwelling. There is a facility to get a provisional BER done before you start, which will then advise you on how to get a better rating during the construction, but from the tone of your post it doesnt seem like you would be interested in such a service.

Every new house requires a rating done, by law.... same as white goods require ratings, electrical fitting, etc and soon enough cars will require ratings as well.

At what point is my build going to be stoped because I dont have the cert ?

Whats wrong with my tone............I'm insulating my house to the highest standards I can afford, I'm using solar panels, the house has being designed to get the best solar gain I can from my site and I'm setting my heating system up to allow a change over to pellets when the rip off merchant "@#$ off !

Slates

muffler wrote: »

In all fairness this forum is not the place to ask that question - try the DOE or your local TD.

Why is this not the place to ask this question

Slates

Mellor wrote: »

firstly, a family member may be selling the house in the future. Secondly, selling or letting only really applies to housing stock, as the energy requirement cant really be changed.

And finally, the reason you need a BER is to show that your house does not use excessive energy.

The house in question will never go outside control of my immediate family

smashey

Slates wrote: »

The house in question will never go outside control of my immediate family

Never say "never".

Slates

smashey wrote: »

Never say "never".

Fair enough, but is a simple question, when is not having a cert going to affect a self-build which is not going to be sold ?

sydthebeat

you building wont be stopped.... like i said in my reply to your post, its only required when its complete. It will be requested, probably by your solicitor, along with certificate of compliance, cert of identity etc, the usual paraphernalia thats required.

Its required by law, so thats reason enough.

If you are insulating etc to a high degree then why such abhorrence of a calculation to show exactly how well the building performs????? the calculation will also show compliance with the building regs part L... so it needs to be done any way.

Slates

sydthebeat wrote: »

you building wont be stopped.... like i said in my reply to your post, its only required when its complete. It will be requested, probably by your solicitor, along with certificate of compliance, cert of identity etc, the usual paraphernalia thats required.

Its required by law, so thats reason enough.

If you are insulating etc to a high degree then why such abhorrence of a calculation to show exactly how well the building performs????? the calculation will also show compliance with the building regs part L... so it needs to be done any way.

Because half the gangsters who are providing the certs dont know the arse from their elbows, one look over this thread should be enough to get anyone back up !