aer arran engine failure

ednwireland

Plane diverted after engine failure



A Carrickfin-bound flight has been diverted to City of Derry Airport following an engine scare.

The Aer Arann flight REO2D travelling from Carrickfin Airport in Donegal to Dublin was diverted to the city's airport this morning after reporting an engine fault.

Emergency services were called to the airport as a precautionary measure.

The plane, which had 36 passengers on board, landed safely and without incident at 10.30am.

An airport spokesman said: "We would like to thank the emergency services for their quick call out response. The aircraft will remain at City of Derry Airport until the fault is repaired."
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Last Updated: 21 January 2008 11:28 AM

Aidan Disney

Something of the same nature happend a few months ago on a Arann flight from Kerry - Dublin.

Glad the crew and passengers are safe.

cedar

looks like a worrying trend,Im sure the IAA will be on there case

Fabio

Dunno if it's such a big deal or if the media are blowing these things out of proportion after the Heathrow landing...

pclancy

Happens all airlines and all types of a/c though, its not something to be worried about.

pclancy

Fabio wrote: »

Dunno if it's such a big deal or if the media are blowing these things out of proportion after the Heathrow landing...

Yeah, the media are gonna be all over flight safety after such a high profile accident.

I hate scaremongers :mad:

oscarBravo

ednwireland wrote: »

Plane diverted after engine failure

...

The Aer Arann flight REO2D travelling from Carrickfin Airport in Donegal to Dublin was diverted to the city's airport this morning after reporting an engine fault.

"fault" =/= "failure". An engine fault could be an indicator light on the panel. An engine failure implies the engine stopped.

Steyr

AFAIK they can fly on one engine.

pclancy

Of course, more then enough power in one engine to continue the flight to the destination if safety rules allowed them to. Landing at the nearest airfield is the safest option obviously.

It could have well been an electronic or electrical fault, something those ATRs do have a lot of according to some.

highlydebased

"Worrying Trend"?

Dont think so. Aer Arann have not had one in twelve months at least. Ryanair and Aer Lingus even longer than that.

kona

eh
engines do fail often enough, you just dont hear about it on the news:)

*Kol*

kona wrote: »

eh
engines do fail often enough, you just dont hear about it on the news:)

In flight shutdowns are not that common. Especially in the case of ETOPs certified aircraft (of course ATRs arenot ETOPs certified)

cedar

Pilots dont shut engines down engines in flight because of electronic indicating problems,its always because the engine is shot,also aer arann have had numerous unscheduled engine changes in the last year.

kona

*Kol* wrote: »

In flight shutdowns are not that common. Especially in the case of ETOPs certified aircraft (of course ATRs arenot ETOPs certified)

turbo props do!!!

etops approved aircraft are for long range twin engined widebodies, with the amount of redundancies on them id hope they dont fail too much.:D
turboprobs are even affected by air density.

cedar

If a turboprop pilot shuts an engine down in flight because of an indicating problem,he is simply a bad pilot!!and acting againnst the manufacturer's operation procedure's.

oscarBravo

That was my point earlier - it's unclear whether there even was an engine shutdown.

*Kol*

kona wrote: »

turbo props do!!!

etops approved aircraft are for long range twin engined widebodies, with the amount of redundancies on them id hope they dont fail too much.:D
turboprobs are even affected by air density.

Really? What do base that info on??

kona

*Kol* wrote: »

Really? What do base that info on??

physics and what qualifies a plane to be etops approved.

*Kol*

kona wrote: »

physics and what qualifies a plane to be etops approved.

Sorry I meant what are you basing your "turboprops do!" comment on???

And what has air density got to do with in flight shutdowns??

Are other turbine engines not effected by air density??

Is a turboprop not a turbine engine with a prop shaft?

skybus

Cedar

If a turboprop pilot shuts an engine down in flight because of an indicating problem,he is simply a bad pilot!!and acting againnst the manufacturer's operation procedure's.

A particulary worrying comment coming from perhaps a disgruntled aircraft engineer. One would hope that it's made tongue in cheek. An engine failure or an engine shut down can be as of the result of many indications, and not always the most obvious. May I draw your attention to the QRH on most aircraft, and more specifically page 1. It says that a commander has the authority to do whatever they deem necessary if they feel there is a compromise to the safety of the flight. And yes this includes going against a manufacturer or checklist, if required. I don't know the details of this particular Aer Arann incident but from where I sit they did exactly what they are paid, qualified and trained to do. And that is to ensure the safety of the people on board. It's particulary amusing if somewhat immature to call someone a bad pilot on a public forum. Actually its quite funny really coming from your background! With the greatest of respect leave the decision making to the qualified pilots in the air (which are licensed to do so) and I'll respect your side of things on when you come looking for my release to service signature on the tech log.

*Kol*

Indications such as high EGT, low oil pressure, overspeed, low oil quantity, fire warnings etc etc could all be cause for shutdowns.

kona

*Kol* wrote: »

Sorry I meant what are you basing your "turboprops do!" comment on???

And what has air density got to do with in flight shutdowns??

Are other turbine engines not effected by air density??

Is a turboprop not a turbine engine with a prop shaft?

turbo props, fail more than turbofans.

turbo props as you said is a propellor attatched to a reduction gearbox attached to the turbine.

more moving parts....means more to fail.

air density has everything to do with shut down on propellor aircraft due to lack of o2 for combustion.

turboprops are a bit more efficient is less dense air, however they have to work harder in thinner air, so are less efficient, than jets.

the higher you fly the cheaper it is. which is mainly why airlines want pilots to fly as high as possible.

cedar

like you say skybus,you dont know the details of this flight but it dose'nt stop you refering to page 1 of the qrh....you should read the rest of it

skybus

Mmm, a particulary defensive answer there when you refer to reading the QRH. The initial pages of a QRH on any aircraft reads the same, be it an Airbus, Boeing, ATR, Fokker 50 etc. As i'm sure you are all to aware, pilots generally don't take lessons on how to fly aeroplanes from the engineering community, just like we don't tell the engineering community how to do their job. It's a shame you let your many of your very knowledgeable and informative colleagues down when you make very general statements like you have earlier in the thread. Anyway, in my aircraft type we gererally refer to the ECAM as our first source of information.

In relation to this particular incident. You obviously have alot more knowledge of it than we on this board do. Perhaps you can you answer me then as to why the aircraft required an engine change in Derry if indeed it was only an indication problem like you said. Please correct me if i'm wrong. Whilst I don' fly an ATR my sources suggest it did? You are a man/woman of very high intellect, I would be intrigued if you could enlighten us on the particulars based on your area of expertise?

cedar

Apologies skubus if I have upset your sensitive soul with the home truth that pilots do indeed make mistakes!!And you like your colleauges try and hide behind pilot "infallabity" blaming the 1st thing that comes to hand under the illusion that after your parents have splashed out a 100k or so on your on your trainninig that you know it all....let us know when they let you in the left seat.

*Kol*

kona wrote: »

air density has everything to do with shut down on propellor aircraft due to lack of o2 for combustion.

I don't get what you are saying here at all?

skybus

Apologies skubus if I have upset your sensitive soul with the home truth that pilots do indeed make mistakes!!And you like your colleauges try and hide behind pilot "infallabity" blaming the 1st thing that comes to hand under the illusion that after your parents have splashed out a 100k or so on your on your trainninig that you know it all....let us know when they let you in the left seat.

A most mature answer. Probably dosen't even warrant a response. However your insecurity is quite alarming considering the position you say you hold. Thankfully it's not a common trait amongst your piers, many of whom are probably friends of mine. Perhaps a good CRM refresher course would sort you out.

I asked a simple question. It looks like I will have to ask it again. Was the engine on that aircraft changed after this incident?. You let on you know the facts, now answer the question. All i'm looking for is an honest response if you can muster one up where one can argue the facts, not simply speculate based on hear say.

As for spending 100k on training. Well in my time it probably cost about a 10th of that, although I'll never know as i'm from an era where I was very fortunate that my airline paid for it. As for being in the left seat, well I actually occupy both as it happens. It just depends on whether I am conducting training or not.

Now are you going to make any further gereral accusations/assumptions or are you going to furnish our very inquisitive minds with an answer and perhaps even make this a mature debate.

oscarBravo

Any chance we could keep this conversation civil? Ta.

skybus

It's certainly civil from my end. All I want is an answer in reponse to a direct question.
SB

RoundyMooney

skybus, cedar,

Attack the post and not the poster, ta.

Oilrig

I often wonder how you "drivers" manage to get on with each other in the cockpit, CRM and all that...

Given that you slaughter each other and anyone else within range on forums like this...

(not aimed at any particular poster, just a general observation)

In my experience, the plank drivers are worse than the rotary guys.

... I expect to be hung, drawn, and quartered by someone who has a rehearsed reason to explain this behaviour...:rolleyes:

PS... hope my grammar is correct...;)

skybus

often wonder how you "drivers" manage to get on with each other in the cockpit, CRM and all that...

Yes it certainly comes across that way on this and other boards alright. It's actually very civilised in reality. The problem with discussions like these and others is that you often get a person throwing in complete inaccuracies and I suppose others take it upon themselves to try to set the record straight. Almost like a judge without jury type sceanario. The face behind the mask. Sometimes these can be made tongue in cheek. Sometimes not. I suppose I'm guilty of it here. I don' normally contribute to forums like these but we again see one of these type of people throwing in complete inaccuracies into a general discussion. I happen to know many people in Aer Arann and I can absolutely confirm that the gentleman above is completely wrong. It's just a pity he can't retract his rant and keep things civilised without chastising the community of people he works with.

I'm certainly not one to start ranting and raving other nothing.

And your right it also bugs me when I'm told my grammer and spelling is wrong

CelloPoint

skybus wrote: »

Yes it certainly comes across that way on this and other boards alright. It's actually very civilised in reality. The problem with discussions like these and others is that you often get somone people throwing in complete inaccuracies and I suppose others take it upon themselves to try to set the record straight. Almost like a judge without jury type sceanario. The face behind the mask. I suppose I'm guilty of it here. I don' normally contribute to forums like these but we again see one of these type of people throwing in complete inaccuracies into a general discussion. I happen to know many people in Aer Arann and I can absolutely confirm that the gentleman above is completely wrong. It's just a pity he can't retract his rant and keep things civilised without chastising the community of people he works with.

I'm certainly not one to start ranting and raving other nothing.

And your right it also bugs me when I'm told my grammer and spelling is wrong

I'd say your passengers would find it hard to distinguish your voice from an automatic speech generating computer.

You're like a child with a mechano set the way you're gluing bits of Irish Times-speak (the paper of record I might add) together.

*Kol*

I think this thread has run its course....:p

oscarBravo

skybus wrote: »

And your right it also bugs me when I'm told my grammer and spelling is wrong

"And you're right..."

cedar

Of course Im not going to ans your direct question,the fact you asked it on this forum shows contempt for me!!!But its the like of you that cause long nuisance tech delays and endless engineering expense....I suppose its clowns like you that keep me in a job but it the long run will close down many small operators.
Still not convinced you're(speaking of men behind masks) anything but a know it all pain in the a8rs f/o from the don who went into lingus where your sort of petulance is tolerated and you treat it like a posh flying club for you and your chums not a commercial operation that other people depend on for travelling and making a living out of.PLEASE GROW UP!

RoundyMooney

Cedar is on a two week break for calling others a clown while acting like one himself.

Cellopoint gets a week for contributing nothing to the discussion.

PM me after the relevant time to remind me to unban, you two, because I'll probably forget.

pclancy

I think that something that should be cleared up on this thread, mainly for people that are outside of the industry, is that at no times is the safety of turboprop aircraft inferior to that of jets and Aer Arran's planes are as safe as anyone elses.

Aer Arran have a superb safety record and this incident was handled with complete safety and professionalism. Thousands of flights such as this with these aircraft are made every year within Ireland and around the world, once in a blue moon something fails and it appears in the scaremongering media as "Engine failure". The truth is the plane was completly safe and could have continued to its destination if required.

Whatever rivalry etc that exits between pilots and tech staff should be kept out of discussion such as these about flight safety or specific airlines, its not fair to those that might be reading from the outside of your industry.

My 2c.

RoundyMooney

Good point, well made.

pclancy

Cheers. As well as that I think its frustrating when most people look at a turboprop and say "ah look at that old propeller plane" and think its unsafe and slow when for regional routes they are far more economical and just as good performancewise as a jet or dont realise its a brand new plane they're looking at!

RoundyMooney

I hear that a lot from people who fly in them.

The great unwashed seem to think that propellers=WWII bombers over Dresden or something

Biro

pclancy wrote: »

Cheers. As well as that I think its frustrating when most people look at a turboprop and say "ah look at that old propeller plane" and think its unsafe and slow when for regional routes they are far more economical and just as good performancewise as a jet or dont realise its a brand new plane they're looking at!

Ya, those comments always bug me. I prefer flying in a turboprop. More character!

FlutterinBantam

In fact the turbo may be superior to the jet in some respects and they don't need that extra time to "spool up" and respond to throttle inputs.

Relax everyone, that Aer Arran experience seems to have been totally routine and seems to have been handled by the book by all concerned.

cp251

Being a pilot with a brother for an Engineer. I've had one or two 'discussions' over a beer or two not dissimilar to the one we have seen here. All in good fun though. I always win though, 'cos us pilots are great!

But the bitter Engineer is quite common, (a classic example to be found on this thread) usually dismissing the jumped up 'drivers' as arrogant and overpaid. (I'm neither by the way.) While there are pilots who meet that criteria. It's not the rule. On the other hand there are also arrogant Engineers but few overpaid.

It's unneccessary and stupid and Cedar should know better. The issue was nicely dealt with though. I have to say though that if there is too much pilot bashing going on, the pilots who frequent this forum will 'take off', so to speak. Rather an unfortunate situation for an aviation forum.

RoundyMooney

As I've always held, animated discussion is fine, in fact it's welcomed.

When it spirals into people calling each other clowns, it's time to call a halt though

Cedar's access restored early by the way.

FlutterinBantam

cp251 wrote: »

Being a pilot with a brother for an Engineer. I've had one or two 'discussions' over a beer or two not dissimilar to the one we have seen here. All in good fun though. I always win though, 'cos us pilots are great!

But the bitter Engineer is quite common, (a classic example to be found on this thread) usually dismissing the jumped up 'drivers' as arrogant and overpaid. (I'm neither by the way.) While there are pilots who meet that criteria. It's not the rule. On the other hand there are also arrogant Engineers but few overpaid.

It's unneccessary and stupid and Cedar should know better. The issue was nicely dealt with though. I have to say though that if there is too much pilot bashing going on, the pilots who frequent this forum will 'take off', so to speak. Rather an unfortunate situation for an aviation forum.

Regrettable maybe,but I'm sure we would be able to carry on;)

cp251

Regrettable maybe,but I'm sure we would be able to carry on

with only the dreamers, spotters, wanabees, flight sim aces and bitter Engineers. Great fun!:rolleyes:

It would be like serving soldiers being driven out of the military forum.

If you don't want pilots around, you only have to say so. You'd miss us though:D You really would.:(

I doubt if we'll see much of Skybus again.

FlutterinBantam

cp251 wrote: »

with only the dreamers, spotters, wanabees, flight sim aces and bitter Engineers. Great fun!:rolleyes:

It would be like serving soldiers being driven out of the military forum.

If you don't want pilots around, you only have to say so. You'd miss us though:D You really would.:(

I doubt if we'll see much of Skybus again.

Hey,there's a lot more to aviation than actual flying.

Nobody wants anybody out unless they are making a nuisance of themselves and the mods can handle that very well.
Aviation is a vast industry and you my friend are only a small, albeit important, cog in it.
Everybody plays their part and despite popular opinion amongst the flying aces, it is possible to have fun without actual flying.

Everybody is welcome here as far as I am concerned,but lets not fall into the trap of feeling that the absence of any particular group will diminish the forum and lead to deep stall.;)

Certainly not!!

cp251

Hey,there's a lot more to aviation than actual flying.

There is? I thought that was the whole raison d'etre of aviation, you know flying, going up in the air and travelling from place to place without the considerable inconvenience of having stay on the ground.

I disagree with you completely, the absence of any group would diminsh the forum. But pilots in particular. If you take away any group who work in or are involved directly with aviation from this forum, it would be diminshed. Be they pilots, engineers, air traffic controllers or others who look in.

Your mistake is to think that by pilot, I'm only referring to obvious airline pilots like skybus. Bear in mind that anybody in the above groups can be a pilot. I know engineers, ATC, accountants, lawyers etc who are pilots. Student pilots, private pilots, microlight pilots, CPL's, ATPL's. It's not just those of us who earn a living as a pilot who are pilots. Remove pilots and you lose a huge slice of potential contributors.

But then of course, maybe the sneering abuse and patronising comments by certain individuals here is actually directed at only those pilots who earn their living from flying. Who everyone knows have massive egos and need to be kept in their place?

pclancy

Skybus will and should be back I'm sure, he had a debate with two people that were then banned for getting too personal and showed their immaturity in their posts, but thats what often happens, thats the way it is on the net. Pilots on a whole were not insulted, its an aviation forum there's no way they would all disappear. In any industry there will be people that dont think much of others in their industry, if some tech people dont like pilots or visa versa, it shouldnt be so big a problem as people leave!

A lot us may just be here for the discussions, to learn a bit and have fun and are just useless wanabees but we dont all post pointless crap purely to antagonise people. Also spare a thought for those of us that will be studying for our PPLs one day and are only wanabees until then

Nobody is going anywhere because of one debate on one thread, if they do then sorry but that's just life on a net forum!

And cp251 i'm not directing this at you personally but it doesnt really bother me if you stay or go, you seem not to like much any input on this forum from anyone outside of the aviation industry but we've all got a right to post here about something we're interested in and nobody is doubting your experience or value of information to be contributed here.

If this were a real discussion I would now proceed to suggest that we all get drunk and forget about it.

FlutterinBantam

I was hoping this would not degenerate into the kind of thread you are dragging it into.
Quite frankly, you seem to have a quite exalted opinion of yourself, and try as I might, not to get personal, I feel you are epitomising the very attitude that the less well versed amongst us tend to expect from pilots.

You allude to fact that without people like you the forum would be diminished,and refer to other users in what I consider to be a disparaging and disrespectful manner.

You say you are a pilot,but as far as I am concerned you could be a chef posting in his jocks in the front room,I don't know,i don't want to know, and I don't care.

Please don't talk down to people who are genuinely interested in aviation,and dismiss their interest as non consequential.

People are not total idiots around here sir.