E-mail and chat data to be stored 'within a month'

Dennis the Stone

Records of e-mails and internet chat messages sent and received by Irish residents - and the times they log on and off the internet - will have to be stored for three years. The scheme will be implemented within a month.

The Irish Times has learned the Department of Justice intends to effect a controversial EU data retention directive affecting e-mail and web usage "within a month", according to a department spokeswoman.

Due to the short timescale, the department will need to use a statutory instrument rather than use primary legislation.

The content of messages will not be retained, but information specifying who sent and received all e-mail and chat messages, the date and time, and the size of the message would have to be retained.

Internet protocol addresses, which define individual users or computers on the net, will also be retained. The directive would likely affect individuals and small to medium businesses, and not private business networks used by large multinationals.

Industry observers and privacy advocates have argued the new EU directive is so vague that internet service providers remain uncertain of what information they need to retain, or how they are to retain and manage it.

Despite the short timetable for implementation, industry bodies had not been told yet that the Government planned to bring forward the statutory instrument.

Ireland received warning letters from the EU last month because it is now three months overdue to implement the directive.

Paul Durrant, director of the Internet Service Providers Association of Ireland (ISPAI), said: "The ISPAI is disappointed that such an all pervasive measure . . . should be enacted without being subjected to the full rigours of Dáil debate and the public exposure that brings."

Ireland will be among the first to bring the directive into force in Europe, despite the fact that it has also challenged it in the European Court of Justice.

The challenge does not relate to the substance of the directive, which the Government has championed in the EU, but the fact that it was introduced by vote of the larger EU members, a precedent that worries the State.

Privacy advocacy group Digital Rights Ireland (DRI) is challenging the existing call data laws in the High Court in a case that is expected to be referred to the European courts.

Edward McGarr, principal of McGarr Solicitors, who are representing DRI said: "At the very least the transposition of the directive should be by primary legislation and following a debate in the Oireachtas."

© 2008 The Irish Times

Better stop doing the old terrorism by email now I suppose.

cormie

What defines "chat"? Are we talking MSN or what?

And does anyone know the reason for this anyway? Greater security with regards spam, pedrophiles and all that jazz or what?

thefinalstage

cormie wrote: »

What defines "chat"? Are we talking MSN or what?

And does anyone know the reason for this anyway? Greater security with regards spam, pedrophiles and all that jazz or what?

I believe it is to appease the U.S.

Adam

There will still be plenty of ways to go about your business completely anonymously, don't worry.

Dennis the Stone

What a waste of storage.

Senna

Why??? Whats the point?? What will the info be used for??

Dennis the Stone

Bertie is going to read it all on the toilet. Huge printouts to go through.

Tar.Aldarion

Encrypting time.

pid()

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

Encrypting time.

Indeed. I'll be switching from IRC to Silc, and when usng email and AIM/MSN it'll be encrypted.

If this forces people to use encryption then it's good.

MikeDragoon

Jeez would you get a grip. No one company in this country has the ability to capture and store this data and the government doesnt have any means to read.

Stop posting stupid rubbish by computer journalist retards.

pirelli

pid() wrote: »

Indeed. I'll be switching from IRC to Silc, and when usng email and AIM/MSN it'll be encrypted.

If this forces people to use encryption then it's good.

What is Silc? and did you just post that MSN hotmail is encrypted ? I dont think so MSN HM encrypted.

I know that AOL scramble your isp number, Do BT or another company offer this.?

Tar.Aldarion

It won't be encrypted by default I take it, you set it up to be encrypted.

ScumLord

Good! I want my ramblings on the record, these whore bags can't avoid me anymore.


How come Ireland is 3 months overdue yet we're one of the first to bring it in? Saying we're way overdue should mean everyone else has it in by now. I think we should just not do it, tell the EU to get bent see how they like that.

Dennis the Stone

ScumLord wrote: »

Good! I want my ramblings on the record, these whore bags can't avoid me anymore.


How come Ireland is 3 months overdue yet we're one of the first to bring it in? Saying we're way overdue should mean everyone else has it in by now. I think we should just not do it, tell the EU to get bent see how they like that.

Send them an email telling them to get bent and then laugh as they have to store it away for three years. Film yourself laughing and email that as well.

Sabre0001

It's been reported that this would happen...Imagine typing a little inside joke and suddenly the F.B.I. show up at your door! Counter-Strike players could also have fun...

"Right, they are going to bomb Site A" // "The hostages are located in the storeroom, should be a few guarding them with AK-47s"

Tusky

Sabre0001 wrote: »

It's been reported that this would happen...Imagine typing a little inside joke and suddenly the F.B.I. show up at your door! Counter-Strike players could also have fun...

"Right, they are going to bomb Site A" // "The hostages are located in the storeroom, should be a few guarding them with AK-47s"

"We have it on good authority that the terrorists have been given the 'go go go'"

ScumLord

Kemos wrote: »

Send them an email telling them to get bent and then laugh as they have to store it away for three years. Film yourself laughing and email that as well.

On the to be done and done list. Is there any way one can abuse this system by using it as some sort of free file hosting service?

GhostInTheRuins

If a "terrorist" gets caught they'll use it to check the records of everyone they've contacted, because we all know terrorists plot their dastardly schemes by email and msn.

Genghiz Cohen

And YouTube and MySpace, if 24 is to be believed.

casey212

Everyting you do on the internet can be tracked. Anyone who believes otherwise is vary naive.

Tar.Aldarion

Actually, no, it can't.

faceman

pid() wrote: »

Indeed. I'll be switching from IRC to Silc, and when usng email and AIM/MSN it'll be encrypted.

If this forces people to use encryption then it's good.

Not being smart here but what have you got to hide that the EU would be interested in??

Jumpy

Tusky wrote: »

"We have it on good authority that the terrorists have been given the 'go go go'"

We are currently trying to locate the ringleader of this operation.
His co-conspirators are referring to him via his codename of "AWPING GHEY FAG"

Tar.Aldarion

faceman wrote: »

Not being smart here but what have you got to hide that the EU would be interested in??

'Hey dude, did you download those 12gigs of films I wanted?' :P

Deliverance XXV

casey212 wrote: »

Everyting you do on the internet can be tracked. Anyone who believes otherwise is vary naive.

There are ways to contact people without leaving traces.

Example:
Set up an email account and access it only by a proxy. Give the password to whoever you want to contact. When you want to speak to them just write an email and save it in the drafts folder. The other person when accessing by a proxy also can just look at the email draft then edit it to whatever he wants his message to be and save it for the other person and so on and so forth etc.

Deliverance XXV

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

'Hey dude, did you download those 12gigs of films I wanted?' :P

Thought you wanted 14gigs?

Tar.Aldarion

That's needlessly complicated.

arybvtcw0eolkf

thelastangryman wrote: »

I believe it is to appease the U.S.

You can bet your damn life its to protect those idiots.

Peteee

King Nothing wrote: »

Example:
Set up an email account and access it only by a proxy. Give the password to whoever you want to contact. When you want to speak to them just write an email and save it in the drafts folder. The other person when accessing by a proxy also can just look at the email draft then edit it to whatever he wants his message to be and save it for the other person and so on and so forth etc.

This clearly results in no data being sent from either computer. :rolleyes:

How do you swap passwords?

Also ECHELON

Stercus Accidit

pid() wrote: »

Indeed. I'll be switching from IRC to Silc, and when usng email and AIM/MSN it'll be encrypted.

If this forces people to use encryption then it's good.

Brilliant, I agree, wonderful.

Um...

How do I do this?:o

I want my irc's to be silc's

Morlar

Peteee wrote: »

How do you swap passwords?

Also ECHELON

By carrier pidgeon - echelon schmech-elon.

monkey tennis

casey212 wrote: »

Everyting you do on the internet can be tracked. Anyone who believes otherwise is vary naive.

Anyone who believes this is ill-informed.

cance

i have to laugh at all the special Olympic candidates in this thread that speak of encrypting their msn/aim/email traffic, as if anything you nerds have to say is remotely worth hiding :P

Terry

Good to see everyone read the article correctly.

The content of messages will not be retained, but information specifying who sent and received all e-mail and chat messages, the date and time, and the size of the message would have to be retained.

casey212

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

Actually, no, it can't.

monkey tennis wrote: »

Anyone who believes this is ill-informed.

Is that so? So the person, a fairly "important" programmer for microsoft must be totally uninformed.

"They" can access your own hard drive, so why do you question this.

monkeyfudge

faceman wrote: »

Not being smart here but what have you got to hide that the EU would be interested in??

Who is holding this information? How secure is it? What will it be used for? Everyone has private information that they'd rather not let other people know, and that could be used against you for leverage. A list of everyone you emailed, chatted with, called, and also information on everywhere you go if information from celluar networks is also stored. It's very much Big Brother territory here. And these databases are generally very poorly secured. The UK recently lost information on 25 million people from their social welfare system.

Terry

casey212 wrote: »

Is that so? So the person, a fairly "important" programmer for microsoft must be totally uninformed.

"They" can access your own hard drive, so why do you question this.

Oh no. Microsoft are gonna steal my porn collection.

casey212

Terry wrote: »

Oh no. Microsoft are gonna steal my porn collection.

You have lost all your self preservation instincts. The age old response "what, have you something to hide?" is madness verbalised.

Yes sire, no sire, anything else sire?

When did people lose their backbone to this extent.

Morlar

Terry wrote: »

Oh no. Microsoft are gonna steal my porn collection.

I'd be more concerned about the passing on of information to do with downloaded movies and music.

If this whole thing is for american security then I have no prob with it whatsoever.

If its for american 'national interest' ie protecting american companies' like fox or warners' profits by targetting downloaded media then its a bit of a problem imo.

Terry

Morlar wrote: »

I'd be more concerned about the passing on of information to do with downloaded movies and music.

If this whole thing is for american security then I have no prob with it whatsoever.

If its for american 'national interest' ie protecting american companies' like fox or warners' profits by targetting downloaded media then its a bit of a problem imo.

Where do you think I got my porn?

Anyway, I don't download anything via IM or E-mail, so I've nothing to worry about on that front. Also, read the ****ing article. They are not storing the data contained within the messages, only the size, time, date etc. Not the contents. Not the contents. Not the contents.

Morlar

Terry wrote: »

not storing the data contained within the messages, only the size, time, date etc. Not the contents. Not the contents. Not the contents.

Yeah yeah yeah - read that part - its the 'slippery slope', 'race to the bottom' type dealio I would be concerned about.

Also the article says 'controversial EU data retention directive affecting e-mail and web usage' also 'Industry observers and privacy advocates have argued the new EU directive is so vague that internet service providers remain uncertain of what information they need to retain, or how they are to retain and manage it.' which is open ended far as I am concerned.

Even if its not open ended its not exactly a huge leap to becoming something more (& no I am not wearing a tin foil hat).

Tar.Aldarion

casey212 wrote: »

Is that so? So the person, a fairly "important" programmer for microsoft must be totally uninformed.

"They" can access your own hard drive, so why do you question this.

Oh wowee, a programmer from microsoft, programmers are so rare!
In fact, I've never programmed in my life...I gave a presentation on this this morning.


Nobody can access my hdd, unless I let them.

casey212

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

Nobody can access my hdd, unless I let them.

Not true. There are ways around everything.

cance

casey212 wrote: »

Not true. There are ways around everything.

specifics or GTFO both of you. :P

casey212

cance wrote: »

specifics or GTFO both of you. :P

Take a chill pill.

Terry

I think you need to take the red pill and wake up to reality.

Big brother isn't watching you.

cance

casey212 wrote: »

Take a chill pill.

if you believe there is some magic way to access tar's hard drive thats wonderful, but he has not told you where it is or what function it is providing. for all we know it could be buried in cement in a safe in a super secret location.

So stupid blanket statements like "microsofts indian super duper hacker dude says he can fiddle with my hard drive from across the world without my permission and reads my cyberseks chat logs" are null and void. working in Ip and security i am fully aware of what can/can't be logged and what can/cant be done. but without specifics anything is both possible and impossible at the same time.

Tar.Aldarion

cance wrote: »

if you believe there is some magic way to access tar's hard drive thats wonderful, but he has not told you where it is or what function it is providing. for all we know it could be buried in cement in a safe in a super secret location.

So stupid blanket statements like "microsofts indian super duper hacker dude says he can fiddle with my hard drive from across the world without my permission and reads my cyberseks chat logs" are null and void. working in Ip and security i am fully aware of what can/can't be logged and what can/cant be done. but without specifics anything is both possible and impossible at the same time.

Lol. That is all.

Cuddlesworth

cance wrote: »

if you believe there is some magic way to access tar's hard drive thats wonderful, but he has not told you where it is or what function it is providing. for all we know it could be buried in cement in a safe in a super secret location.

So stupid blanket statements like "microsofts indian super duper hacker dude says he can fiddle with my hard drive from across the world without my permission and reads my cyberseks chat logs" are null and void. working in Ip and security i am fully aware of what can/can't be logged and what can/cant be done. but without specifics anything is both possible and impossible at the same time.

Lol, owned.

Dennis the Stone

So is it going to be like a ginormous log of dates and times with senders and recipients? What a big bunch of friggers

casey212

krazy_8s wrote: »

Lol, owned.

You papers, please.

Just you hand everything over as requested. Thats a good boy.