Dtv : what is it

ussjtrunks

just bought a new hdtv, what is dtv and can it be used in Ireland yet, I live in Cork
I really dont know what it is so any help would be appreciated

TM

Have you tried Wikipedia?

HDTV: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hdtv
DTV (assuming you mean digital TV): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_television

ussjtrunks

yeah I meant digital tv, is it available in cork and what channels are on it ,
If its not available will it be soon

Elmo

RTE are developing a trail run, and it is up and running in Dublin and Louth. I don't think they have rolled it out to Cork.

RTE One, RTE Two, TV3 and TG4 are available on Digital TV Sets. Other services are Channel 6, Setanta Sports Ireland, Setanta Golf, CBBC, BBC3, BBC4, Sky News etc. List here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_terrestrial_television_in_Ireland#Channel_Line_Up

If you are not part of the trial you will only receive RTE 1, 2, TV3 and TG4 for the moment.

RTE, TG4 and TV3 all have plans for new digital services. I am guessing all of them plan a +1 service. (Waste of time IMO).

The Minister for communications is looking towards allowing BBC1NI, BBC2NI, UTV and C4NI broadcast on the new Free To Air (FTA) service. and that RTE1, 2, TV3 and TG4 would all broadcast on Freeview in the North.

TV3's peter ennis has stated that he won't mind as long as Coro St, Emmers, and other TV3 shows are not transmitted into the republic FTA on UTV. UPC (NTL Chours) does want them on the new service as they pay millions for these stations each year and it would effect their business. I don't know how Rights issues would effect the broadcast of RTE 2 and TV3 on Freeview since they both rely heavily on Imports. TV3NI would be a very bare TV channel and a waste of space on Freeview in the North.

ussjtrunks

so hoe do I connect my tv up to receive the channels it has a built in dtv tuner,
do I just connect my standard aeril or do I need a special one,,
What resolution are the broadcasts going to be

Elmo

You will need a new digital TV ariel. Most TV shops sell them.

All-4-one indoor ariels.

Your TV will have an epg ready.

Mossy Monk

ussjtrunks wrote: »

so hoe do I connect my tv up to receive the channels it has a built in dtv tuner,

Move to an area that has Digital Terrestrial Television

L1011

Elmo wrote: »

You will need a new digital TV ariel. Most TV shops sell them. .

ARGH! ARGH! SERIOUS MISINFORMATION ALERT!

There is no such thing as a "digital TV aerial". You need a TV aerial that is the correct group and gain for your area, simple as.

As the OP lives in an area with neither official nor unofficial DTT coverage, right now that's "none". Its very likely that when DTT is rolled out to that area it will be in the same group and on equivalent power to the existing analogue services.

watty

"All 4" aerials are rubbish.

vincenzo1

I know not a lot on this so i just ask...these laptops/computers with dvb-t reception-how do they pick up digital tv?
Do they need an additional external aerial? to that contained within?
Can they pick up anything at moment in ireland?
is dvb on computers laptops in ireland pointless?

thanks

L1011

Depends entirely on where you are. If you live in Tallaght in sight of Three Rock you aren't going to need any aerial other than the bit of wire they come with; if you live in Kilcock you're likely to need a roof aerial...

Standards may and probably will change, this is just a trial, so its pointless spending money expecting to have coverage long-term.

Elmo

There is no such thing as a "digital TV aerial". You need a TV aerial that is the correct group and gain for your area, simple as.

You will need to get intouch with the advertiser on that one, surely it is misleading and incorrect to advertise as such.

"All 4" aerials are rubbish.

Any better ones on the market? I would like know. not sarcastic, sounds sarcastic but it isn't.

L1011

Elmo wrote: »

You will need to get intouch with the advertiser on that one, surely it is misleading and incorrect to advertise as such.

What advertiser? So far, on this thread, the only use of the phrase was you.

watty

Basic indoor / set top / attic aerial for good signal, UHF only
http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?TabID=1&ModuleNo=33215&doy=22m1

Basic outdoor UHF aerial
http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?TabID=1&ModuleNo=19948&doy=22m1
http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?TabID=1&ModuleNo=22523&doy=22m1

Avoid indoor aerials with amplifiers.

VHF needs separate aerial
(RTE 1,2 on Maghera, Mullaganish etc)
Basic indoor / Attic VHF
http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?TabID=1&ModuleNo=8967&doy=22m1

You need a VHF/UHF diplexer to combine VHF and UHF.
(No Digital on VHF).
For Radio/TV but likely work for VHF TV instead of Radio
http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=5126&criteria=vhf%20uhf%20diplex&doy=22m1

The maplin links are only illustrative. Try local Electrical wholesale or B&Q or online.

watty

The Irish & UK markets are FULL of misleading and stupid adverts.

3G "Broadband" = Mobile Internet.
Unlimited (when it isn't)
Legalised Fraud: "HD Ready" when it can't do MPEG4 nor 1080lines natively.
"Healthy Options" food.
"Organic" sea salt

Elmo

What advertiser? So far, on this thread, the only use of the phrase was you.

Well I am only going on what I see advertised!

I always think it is the job of an advertiser to confuse.

Could you use a standard rabbit ears on your digital TV?

watty

Only if there is a suitable strength signal. Digital TV uses ordinary UHF radiowaves just like Analogue TV. It's only the meaning of the Analogue modulation that is different.

Initially most people will need a good outdoor aerial. But over 75% of households need a roof aerial to get decent Analogue TV. If you get a PERFECT analogue picture on Rabbits ears, then it will work for Digital if the same transmitter is enabled.

Digital Cable and Digital Satellite use different kinds of Modulation to Terrestrial Digital. Hence there is only different kinds of tuner / decoders, not aerials. Similarly the same cable and cable amplifiers can work for Analogue or Digital and the same Satellite Transponder 22,500 miles away, same Dish & LNB will work for Analogue Satellite, DVB-s or DVB-s2 digital Satellite. Only some very old analogue satellite transponders are not suitable for Digital or Analogue. Some old LNBs will only "tune" some digital channels, that is a band issue, not digital/analogue.

Elmo

Digital Cable

Will UPC evenutally use their cable network without the Settop box to provide Digital TV to homes in the same way as they provide Analogue at the moment?

L1011

Elmo wrote: »

Will UPC evenutally use their cable network without the Settop box to provide Digital TV to homes in the same way as they provide Analogue at the moment?

Considering there is a huge total of ONE television with a DVB-C tuner that I know of - no. It would effectively be impossible.

It only works on analogue as its just modulated PAL TV signals.

DigiDec

My new Bravia has built in DVB-T and DVB-C tuners, I knew when I bought it that it had a DVB-T tuner but was surprised by the DVB-C tuner too, a bonus!

pbirney

DigiDec wrote: »

My new Bravia has built in DVB-T and DVB-C tuners, I knew when I bought it that it had a DVB-T tuner but was surprised by the DVB-C tuner too, a bonus!

Can you please give the model no. of your Sony?. I'm thinking of buying a Sony Bravia.

DigiDec

Off the top of my head its KDL-3000U but I'll confirm it later when I check it for sure.

watty

Elmo wrote: »

Will UPC evenutally use their cable network without the Settop box to provide Digital TV to homes in the same way as they provide Analogue at the moment?

It's unlikely in the near term.
In USA you can get TVs that take Cable cards.

A separate setbox is likely to be better. EPG, hard Drive etc.

Elmo

It's unlikely in the near term.
In USA you can get TVs that take Cable cards.

Do they need the Cable Card (By which I assume you mean the NTL card in the Settop box) Surely if they just run the transmission directly to the TV with out encryption they should have Digital Cable for DTV TV sets.

DigiDec

Sorry for the late reply, my Sony Bravia model number with the DVB-T and DVB-C tuners is KDL-32S3000.

L1011

Elmo wrote: »

Do they need the Cable Card (By which I assume you mean the NTL card in the Settop box) Surely if they just run the transmission directly to the TV with out encryption they should have Digital Cable for DTV TV sets.

"Cable Card" does not refer to the decoder card, its a CAM. It is a US-only standard, and they use an incompatible transmission system.

The digital cable signals in Ireland are all encrypted.

Digital cable transmissions, as already explained in this thread, are DVB-C, not DVB-T. This is not compatible with standard "DTV" sets, only with a tiny number of sets with DVB-C tuners.

watty

Elmo wrote: »

Do they need the Cable Card (By which I assume you mean the NTL card in the Settop box) Surely if they just run the transmission directly to the TV with out encryption they should have Digital Cable for DTV TV sets.

No digital cable is going to be without encryption. Analogue Cable is doomed for that reason.

Cable, Terrestrial and satellite use incompatible modulation for the digital signal, aside from encryption. The differing standards are because:

Terrestrial (DTT): Reflections and Interference. So OFDM (multiple carriers per signal) and medium QAM. 8MHz Mux spacing.

Cable: Can have stronger signal and should have no reflections (multipath). Only intermodulation, little real interference. So single carrier high QAM rate. 8Mhz Mux spacing. Slightly more channels per MHz at same quality as DTT.

Satellite: Lots of bandwidth but tiny noisy signal. No multipath/reflections. So single carrier, minimum QAM = QPSK. Up to 40MHz per Mux. A lot less channels per MHz at same quality as DTT.

For cable you need a second Cable tuner and a CAM (US systems = Cable Card) for viewing card.

Newer TVs to get slimmer have NO tuner. All the electronics in a separate setbox (with tuner).

TVs are becoming video Monitors. It doesn't make sense to build in the tuners anymore.

Dr.Mark

Watty,
since you'rer wearing your technical hat , do you know if the Ireland HD channel on the DTT trials is broadcast in MPEG-2 or MPEG-4?
Anyway I can determine if my Technomate is receiving one or the other?

watty

MPEG2 HD is DEAD DEAD DEAD
All HD on Sat & Terrestrial is MPEG4.
HD DVD (dead) and Blu ray Disk (BDVD) are both MPEG4 also.
18Mbps MPEG4 HD would be a staggering almost 40Mbps in MPEG2.

Only a few Satellite tests ever used MPEG2 for HD.


BTW
here is link to convert MPEG2 Digital TV, DTT or satbox to MPEG4 (but NOT HD) if it has a CI (CAM slot).
http://www.neotion.com/products/module.htm
I've seen this working a year or so ago.



This is NOT my technical hat

Dr.Mark

Nice HAT

So are you saying that in the terrestrial tests, they are broadcasting SD channels in MPEG-2 and HD in MPEG-4 ?
(Excuse my ignorance, it is possible that MPEG2 can never manage HD?)

With the T6900, it doesn't care, I receive all!

byte

Dr.Mark wrote: »

Nice HAT

So are you saying that in the terrestrial tests, they are broadcasting SD channels in MPEG-2 and HD in MPEG-4 ?
(Excuse my ignorance, it is possible that MPEG2 can never manage HD?)

With the T6900, it doesn't care, I receive all!

With the Irish trial, the RTE's, TV3 and TG4 are in SD MPEG2. However there are other SD channels which are encrypted and are using MPEG4 compression.

MPEG2 can handle HD, but as Watty said, it's very bandwidth-hungry compared to the more efficient MPEG4 compression.

Dr.Mark

Any way I can figure out the encoding from the Receiver?

watty

While it was used for testing in the past, MPEG2 is never going to be used again for HD.
the SD channels will migrate to MPEG4 as you then can have twice as many channels or space for some HD.

HD MPEG4 takes x5 space of SD MPEG4. MPEG4 for SD (regular TV) uses about 1/2 the space as MPEG2 SD for similar or better quality.

It's likely that the trial will will change to MPEG4 for some or all of the regular channels from time to time.

Normal receivers won't tell you the encoding unless they support MPEG4 and have a status menu to display statistics of the channel/Mux. Most receivers only display strength & quality for selected channel.

MPEG2 is doomed as much as D2MAC was now that affordable MPEG4 encoders and receivers are out. Broadcasters will not pass up on getting twice the content on the same spectrum/licence, or incase of shared mux DTT or Satellite, paying nearly 1/2 as much for spectrum.

I doubt there will be much MPEG2 left in 10 years. It will prove to have been very short lived compared to Analogue NTSC and PAL colour.

Dr.Mark

watty wrote: »

Normal receivers won't tell you the encoding unless they support MPEG4 and have a status menu to display statistics of the channel/Mux. Most receivers only display strength & quality for selected channel.

OK, I have seen your passionate exchanges in favour of MPEG4 before so I just needed to extract the above.
I bought the T6900 (MPEG-4) after one of your earlier outbursts on MPEG2vMPEG4 as I wanted a decent lifetime for my latest receiver.
It loves HD

Slicklink

watty wrote: »

"All 4" aerials are rubbish.

Actually.... they're not.... and I must have tested them all!

The bog standard one, If used with a Philex Amplifier is the bomb as regards indoor reception. Just enough gain to pull in the signal without pulling in every other bit of RF.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/PHILEX-27828R-Philex-Way-amplifier/dp/B0009D5VKM/ref=pd_sbs_ce_title_2/203-7528390-8124745