Overtaking in the slow lane, is it illegal?

Halfdog

I was coming up to Dublin two weeks ago and just before Toomnevara theres a climbing lane that lasts about two miles. This idiot driver had been holding up traffic since Birdhill and refused to use this climbing lane. He was doing about 50mph with a snake of cars behind him. Is it illegal to "Undertake" this guy in the slow lane if he dosent move over?

cormie

Tis, but I'm of the viewpoint that it's safer to undertake then be caught in a line of drivers that's angry and with growing impatience

Mitch Connor

Halfdog wrote: »

I was coming up to Dublin two weeks ago and just before Toomnevara theres a climbing lane that lasts about two miles. This idiot driver had been holding up traffic since Birdhill and refused to use this climbing lane. He was doing about 50mph with a snake of cars behind him. Is it illegal to "Undertake" this guy in the slow lane if he dosent move over?

There is a rule that states where it is legal to pass on the left. One situation is where the other car is turning right, another is when traffic in the right hand lane is moving 'slowly'. However, there is no actual measue for the driving 'slowly' bit - so it is up to interpretation. I think most gardi would do you for it unless there outside lane was moving at a snails pace.

hebejebees

I'm pretty sure its illegal mate,
Alot of people don't know how to use these climbing lanes as very often they have just changed the hard shoulder that was there into a new lane

Its something that really annoys me, someone sitting in the outside lane of a motorway doing 100 km/h or less, totally oblivious to the train of cars behind them
I refuse to undertake, i try to flash them and keep my right indicator on or stay behind until they notice and pull over.
Would be worse if you undertook and they pulled in all of a sudden

Mac 3

Same happened to me drivin to Kildare at the start of december, Nenagh bypass is very slow with the roadworks, I'm about 8 cars back from a truck approaching that climbing lane, and here comes some lady in a Focus overtaking in the climbing lane. Obviously her time was more valuable than everyone else's. What ever about doing it on a dual carriageway or motorway, I dont agree with the likes of that in climbing lanes. The whole idea of these things is for slower traffic to move into.

Creamy Goodness

50mph isn't exactly slow is it? i'm assuming it was a N-XX road as i'm not familar with the route.

Mac 3

Its the N7, main road between Dublin and Limerick..

*Kol*

It's a tough call. You might get away with it in the case you described as there was no traffic in front of the car that was holding you up. It would be a different story if you were undertaking for the sake of moving one place ahead in a line of traffic.

It's a dodgy thing tho as there is always the potential for the driver in the outside lane to pull in on top of you.

Mac 3

The day i saw this it was bucketing rain, very poor visibility even at 12-1 o' clock in the day. I think this person might have managed to pass maybe 4 cars. What made it messy was the fact that the truck up ahead at the front of the queue had pulled into the climbing lane and here we had this lunatic then barging back out into the outer lane to join the queue to pass the truck...

RedorDead

That particular stretch of road isnt the best example of a climbing lane though and the road markings and signage isnt particularly good. The climbing lane between dalys cross and birdhill is much more clear.

HJL

When the climbing lane ends and the road becomes one lane again, is the person that was in the climbing lane allowed to pull back onto the road ahead of the cars in the lane to the right?

Isnt it the responsibility of the car passing to make sure that they can overtake someone in the climbing lane before it runs out?

cpoh1

Mac 3 wrote: »

Same happened to me drivin to Kildare at the start of december, Nenagh bypass is very slow with the roadworks, I'm about 8 cars back from a truck approaching that climbing lane, and here comes some lady in a Focus overtaking in the climbing lane. Obviously her time was more valuable than everyone else's. What ever about doing it on a dual carriageway or motorway, I dont agree with the likes of that in climbing lanes. The whole idea of these things is for slower traffic to move into.

I find nothing strange or dangerous with that, the lady was merely putting good driving procedure into practice, my advice to you mac is to always keep left unless you are overtaking something. Then when you need to pass someone pull out into the overtaking lane and get it over with.

hebejebees

cpoh1 wrote: »

I find nothing strange or dangerous with that, the lady was merely putting good driving procedure into practice, my advice to you mac is to always keep left unless you are overtaking something. Then when you need to pass someone pull out into the overtaking lane and get it over with.

I agree, but the problem is that alot of people don't know how to use them plus bad signage

Mac 3

cpoh1 wrote: »

I find nothing strange or dangerous with that, the lady was merely putting good driving procedure into practice, my advice to you mac is to always keep left unless you are overtaking something. Then when you need to pass someone pull out into the overtaking lane and get it over with.

Are you familiar with the stretch of road in question?

Andrewf20

Its the bain of my life sitting behind cars in the fast lane 60mph with no intention to move over no matter what I try.

I would love to know what undertaking is such a big taboo. Certainly with normal road cars like my own, the visibilty on the left hand side of my car would be as good as the right side with 3 mirrors and the ability to check the blind spot on both sides by checking over my shoulders. In solid but moving traffic, if I have a car coming up on my LHS is hardly a big deal trying to spot them I find.

hebejebees

Andrewf20 wrote: »

Its the bain of my life sitting behind cars in the fast lane 60mph with no intention to move over no matter what I try.

I would love to know what undertaking is such a big taboo. Certainly with normal road cars like my own, the visibilty on the left hand side of my car would be as good as the right side with 3 mirrors and the ability to check the blind spot on both side but checking over my shoulders. If I have a car coming up on my LHS is hardly a big deal trying to spot them I find.

The problem is that if someone is stupid enough to sit out in the outside lane when there is a train of traffic behind them, then they are likely to pay no attention if they ever pull in, possibly because like all of us they are not expecting someone to be there.
If there is a crash , the undertaker is likely to be the guilty party

Mac 3

Its the bain of my life sitting behind cars in the fast lane 60mph with no intention to move over no matter what I try.

+1 But i'm not about to perform any manouvre that might put other road users or myself in danger. Dont get me wrong, I'm all about getting somewhere as well, Its inconsiderate drivers like that that force other drivers to get impatient and then try some dangerous manouvre.

Sandwich

Andrewf20 wrote: »

Its the bain of my life sitting behind cars in the fast lane 60mph with no intention to move over no matter what I try.

Ok, they are in the wrong. But why do you expect others to facilitate you breaking the law in an even more dangerous manner?

Mr. Presentable

Andrewf20 wrote: »

Its the bain of my life sitting behind cars in the fast lane 60mph with no intention to move over no matter what I try.

.

Two things.

1 It is not the "fast lane". It is the overtaking lane

2 If you are in a procession of cars and/or are not overtaking, you should be in the leftmost lane - the driving lane.

Andrewf20

Sandwich wrote: »

Ok, they are in the wrong. But why do you expect others to facilitate you breaking the law in an even more dangerous manner?

How am I breaking the law, signalling with my horn & indicator for them to move over?

Nipplenuts, Im a an avid believer in point 2. Fair enough about point 1 its just a bad habit I have of calling it the fast lane.

Mr. Presentable

Oh, and OP, undertaking is wrong except where specified.

Wertz

At what point would he be breaking the law? If they're doing 60mph, they're cruising at a full 12mph slower than the roads upper limit and they're doing so in the outside lane which is there to facilitate the flow of faster moving traffic.

I do 120kmph in the inside lane; the only time I'm in the outside lae is when I wish to pass a vehicle or a closely grouped procession of vehicles. At times I may increase my speed to 140kmph to get past them and get off that side of the road....that is breaking the law, but is in the interests of every other road user. The real lawbreakers are the people hogging the outside lane.

One other thing on this whole overtaking lane thing; I do most of my m'way travel on the M1 so can't speak for other routes, but I'm of the opinion that a lot of outside lane hogging is down to the sheer amount of HGVs and goods vehicles moving at restricted speed in the inside lane. This is especially prevalent at peak times.
The herd mentality dictates that everyone is just better off in the outside lane, because there's so many in it already and because there's only a couple of hundred yds of road space between that slower moving traffic...anyone doing the right thing and ducking back into the left lane is penalised by the right lane hoggers who won't mke space for those vehicles to overtake the lorries again....and the closer you get to Dublin or other big cities the worse it gets as traffic starts to accumulate and busy junctions start merging.
Why do we have oh so much road freight on roads that we rely on for the movement of commuters? Especially the like of the M1, that runs alongside a perfectly good railway line? Off topic, I know, but it has a big part to play in the problems on our roads.

mick.fr

I don't give a rats ass, when I got a dumb in front of me on the right lane riding at 80 Kmph where speed limit is 120 Kmh, I flash him if this is safe for him to go back to his left side cage, wait few secs, if he does not move, like most of time on the Irish roads, I overtake from the left, end of story.

For me I am just avoiding a dangerous situation where slow drivers are riding on the fast lane.
For me this is not illegal.

Mr. Presentable

mick.fr wrote: »

For me this is not illegal.

For you? Who are you, Michael O'Leary?

D_murph

if i were a garda and came across right lane hoggers i would definitely pull them over. the right lane is for overtaking only and needs to be enforced as such. of course a speed gun can only detect speed and not some idiot causing a funeral procession on a main road :rolleyes:.

i cant understand the mentality of anyone who cannot notice that they are holding up everyone else but it proves one thing for sure.

they have no situational awareness and cannot be paying attention if they cant realise this and should not be driving as they are a danger to themselves and others if they are not alert enough to realise whats going on around them while driving.

of course you will get the type that set themselves up as a pace car because they are "doing the limit" and think that they are doing a favour to society or something by forcing everyone else to do the same :rolleyes:

wil

Andrewf20 wrote: »

Its the bain of my life sitting behind cars in the fast lane 60mph with no intention to move over no matter what I try.

I would love to know what undertaking is such a big taboo. Certainly with normal road cars like my own, the visibilty on the left hand side of my car would be as good as the right side with 3 mirrors and the ability to check the blind spot on both sides by checking over my shoulders. In solid but moving traffic, if I have a car coming up on my LHS is hardly a big deal trying to spot them I find.

Several reasons,
1 - it is bad enough you have unpredictable, non indicating, erratic drivers passing or being passed on one side, double that and it gets even more hairy.
2 - in an emergency, it really helps if some inconsiderate, idiotic, or bull headed driver isnt ploughing up your inside.
3 - some drivers seem to think that traffic queues are meant for other people and so use their satan given right to undertake when/wherever they feel like.

Had an emergency situation happen on motorway in UK some years back where my timing belt failed while I was overtaking in the outside lane.
Thankfully, with my instant and catastrophic loss of power, I was glad I wasnt on an Irish motorway and could pull in to the hard shoulder safely without being concertinaed by aforementioned plonkers.

Would people kindly refrain from calling lanes "fast" and "slow" lanes, we have climbing, inside, outside, central and overtaking lanes, but no fast or slow lanes.

In the US they can overtake on either side but have different driving climate - wider lanes, policy of keeping to one lane, slower speed etc.
Their road death stats arent anything to write home about either, so shouldnt be set up as an example to follow.

brayblue24

D_murph wrote: »

if i were a garda and came across right lane hoggers i would definitely pull them over. the right lane is for overtaking only and needs to be enforced as such. of course a speed gun can only detect speed and not some idiot causing a funeral procession on a main road :rolleyes:.


:rolleyes:

The really irritating thing about this behaviour is that as soon as they see a Garda car they DO move in!!

Tails142

Was driving home the other night on the M4 - not much traffic about an I came upon a guy in an audi driving in the overtaking lane. I was probably doing about 130km/h and he was at about 100km/h in then 120km/h section. so i sat behind him for a good while, we overtook a car or two. Few minutes later, no cars ahead and he's still on the outside. I give him a long flash of my full beams and he decides to pull over.

Grand so, not to hang about I decide to put the foot down and take it up to about 170km/h to put some distance between us. I then settle into my usual 130km/h that I do on the motorway. What do I find only to see the guy behind has picked up his pace and is now keeping distance with me a couple of hundred metres back... why did he decide to speed up after I overtook him one wonders...

My other story is from today on the m50; behind a vw polo saloon type thing with extensive damage to the boot; rear view mirror is clearly used for doing make up as I can see out the drivers window with it; maybe if the rear view mirror had've been used correctly she wouldnt have reversed into something - anyway the whole way along in the overtaking lane with no traffic infront of her and plenty of gaps to move into the driving lane. Frustrating! I would usually undertake in this situtation but the fact that mirrors werent obviosuly being used and there was no hard shoulder to veer into meant I wasnt going to risk it. She then cut someone off when we got to the toll booths and she went to change lanes :rolleyes:

Mena

Tails142 wrote: »

I decide to put the foot down and take it up to about 170km/h to put some distance between us.

Oh jaysus you're about to get an earful from some

Something I do miss about driving back home, if the cops catch you hogging the fast/overtaking/not slow/whatever you're having lane, they'll pull you up and fine you 5 ways from Sunday. And they monitor this ALL the time on the motorways.

John R

Wertz wrote: »

Why do we have oh so much road freight on roads that we rely on for the movement of commuters? Especially the like of the M1, that runs alongside a perfectly good railway line? Off topic, I know, but it has a big part to play in the problems on our roads.

A better question would be why do we have so many commuters on our inter-urban motorways?

The modal shift for single-occupancy car commuters to public trasnsport is far more realistic than the expectation of moving small-medium load freight from road to rail.

The freight needs to be there, the cars don't. The huge numbers of long-distance commuters are by far the biggest problem on our roads, both motorways and urban.

Andrewf20

Mena wrote: »

Something I do miss about driving back home, if the cops catch you hogging the fast/overtaking/not slow/whatever you're having lane, they'll pull you up and fine you 5 ways from Sunday. And they monitor this ALL the time on the motorways.

What country is this?

John R

Tails142 wrote: »

Was driving home the other night on the M4 - not much traffic about an I came upon a guy in an audi driving in the overtaking lane. I was probably doing about 130km/h and he was at about 100km/h in then 120km/h section. so i sat behind him for a good while, we overtook a car or two. Few minutes later, no cars ahead and he's still on the outside. I give him a long flash of my full beams and he decides to pull over.

Grand so, not to hang about I decide to put the foot down and take it up to about 170km/h to put some distance between us. I then settle into my usual 130km/h that I do on the motorway. What do I find only to see the guy behind has picked up his pace and is now keeping distance with me a couple of hundred metres back... why did he decide to speed up after I overtook him one wonders...

Not going to have a go at you about the speeding but I would suggest you don't make a habit of doing that. Do it often enough and odds-on one of the cars you flash, overtake and accelerate away from will be an un-marked or off duty Garda who will do you for the speeding as revenge for flashing and overtaking him.

astraboy

wil wrote: »

Several reasons,
1 - it is bad enough you have unpredictable, non indicating, erratic drivers passing or being passed on one side, double that and it gets even more hairy.
2 - in an emergency, it really helps if some inconsiderate, idiotic, or bull headed driver isnt ploughing up your inside.
3 - some drivers seem to think that traffic queues are meant for other people and so use their satan given right to undertake when/wherever they feel like.

Had an emergency situation happen on motorway in UK some years back where my timing belt failed while I was overtaking in the outside lane.
Thankfully, with my instant and catastrophic loss of power, I was glad I wasnt on an Irish motorway and could pull in to the hard shoulder safely without being concertinaed by aforementioned plonkers.

Would people kindly refrain from calling lanes "fast" and "slow" lanes, we have climbing, inside, outside, central and overtaking lanes, but no fast or slow lanes.

In the US they can overtake on either side but have different driving climate - wider lanes, policy of keeping to one lane, slower speed etc.
Their road death stats arent anything to write home about either, so shouldnt be set up as an example to follow.

If someone is hogging the outside lane and I need to overtake, I flash them. I did undertake a guy recently who was driving a clapped out transit at 45mph in an outside lane, oblivious to me stuck behind him. There was no traffic in the inside lane BTW.

Also, as you mentioned in the U.S. you can over and undertake, but most of the highways I drove on had 4+ lanes. Traffic moved far faster then here though, and the cops were not as concerned about pulling people doing 5mph over the limit on the highway.

mick.fr

Anyway guys if you see a 04 black bimmer 325i with rear windows tinted overtaking you on from the slow lane you will know this was Mick.fr and that you were under 120 Kmh on the fast lane.

AngryHippie

Tails142 wrote: »

Was driving home the other night on the M4 - not much traffic about an I came upon a guy in an audi driving in the overtaking lane. I was probably doing about 130km/h and he was at about 100km/h in then 120km/h section. so i sat behind him for a good while, we overtook a car or two. Few minutes later, no cars ahead and he's still on the outside. I give him a long flash of my full beams and he decides to pull over.

If it was friday, I was stuck behind that same chump as well, overtook and then he decides to sit 40 yards behind me for 3 or 4 miles. dosebag.

Wishbone Ash

Tauren wrote: »

another is when traffic in the right hand lane is moving 'slowly'. However, there is no actual measue for the driving 'slowly'

That only applies to situation where traffic in both lanes/all lanes is queuing, as in approaching a roundabout, toll plaza etc. it doesn't apply to general driving situations.

wil

mick.fr wrote: »

Anyway guys if you see a 04 black bimmer 325i with rear windows tinted overtaking you on from the slow lane you will know this was Mick.fr and that you were under 120 Kmh on the fast lane.

Would you be one of those dosy kamikazis who hurtles up way over the speed limit in heavy traffic then weaves in and out of lanes undertaking with little room for even the slighest error regardless of what manoeuvres anyone else is doing at regular speeds because you are on a slalom course.
Experienced that recently from a black blacked out beemer. I just assumed it was stolen.

Didnt I mention already, we dont have slow lanes.

As above, if I encounter a hogger in the outside lane, I approach at reasonable relative velocity (not insane like some who bomb up behind then slam on the brakes at the other cars bumper) flash several times, horn if necessary, if still no reaction assume the other driver is deceased and undertake (pun intended) with care and sound of horn and whatever gesticulation seems appropriate for the occasion.:rolleyes:

ianobrien

hebejebees wrote: »

Would be worse if you undertook and they pulled in all of a sudden

Ya, they could be done for dangerous driving for changing lane without looking. It happened to a good friend of mine and he was done for changing lane without signalling and for checking if it was clear.

Personnally, I give one flash of the lights and if they don't move, it's into the left lane for me.

prospect

Technically it is, technically it isn't...

I have often travelled on the left lane of 2 & 3 lane motorways & dual carriage ways, on the speed limit with my cruise control switched on.

If I catch up on a slower moving vehicle in the right lane, I will continue on past them. AFA I am concerned, it is not my problem if they want to sit there, I am not doing anything different, just maintaining a legal speed in a clear lane.


However, driving up behind someone, changing into the left lane, accelerating passed, and moving back out into the right lane is different.

cjt156

ianobrien wrote: »

Ya, they could be done for dangerous driving for changing lane without looking. It happened to a good friend of mine and he was done for changing lane without signalling and for checking if it was clear.

Personnally, I give one flash of the lights and if they don't move, it's into the left lane for me.

Absolutely; had the same argument over lunch recently. They'd be the one at fault as you should never undertake any manouvre without checking its safe to do so.
I'd also happily cruise by in the inside lane at 120k(ish).
IMO the overtaking lane rule should be properly enforced - I believe its a penalty points offence, no?

Henry Ford III

Thread is typical of Irish motorists driving habits generally. Some don't know what's the correct interpretation of the position, others do but will knowingly flaunt the law.

OP's description was of a car travelling below the speed limit in the right lane. This is clearly wrong if he/she is holding up other traffic.

It doesn't however give a carte blanche to undertake the vehicle.

It's tough to stay patient, but that's what you should do.

Mac 3

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Thread is typical of Irish motorists driving habits generally. Some don't know what's the correct interpretation of the position, others do but will knowingly flaunt the law.

OP's description was of a car travelling below the speed limit in the right lane. This is clearly wrong if he/she is holding up other traffic.

It doesn't however give a carte blanche to undertake the vehicle.

It's tough to stay patient, but that's what you should do.

Very true, the OP asked the question about climbing lanes and now we seem to have ended up discussing driving behaviour on motorways.

prospect

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Thread is typical of Irish motorists driving habits generally. Some don't know what's the correct interpretation of the position, others do but will knowingly flaunt the law.

OP's description was of a car travelling below the speed limit in the right lane. This is clearly wrong if he/she is holding up other traffic.

It doesn't however give a carte blanche to undertake the vehicle.

It's tough to stay patient, but that's what you should do.

I'd argue that point.
If the person is holding up a few vehicles, and is travelling below the posted limit, then you are perfectly entitled to pass on the left, as it is okay when there is a queue of slow moving traffic on your right.

x in the city

I would do as a previous poster, flash, honk etc. wait for a response....if its not forthcoming undertake the ba$tard in the SLOW lane

In my experience staying behind drivers like these will most likely leave to accidents, sudden breaking, tail back smash ups etc. so just pass the critter out and continue on your journey, in peace:p

so my motto is

'If in doubt, pass it out'

Hooky 25

There is nothing worse than someone hogging the fast lane i see it everyday. People are only to use it if there overtaking.

Sandwich

Wertz wrote: »

Why do we have oh so much road freight on roads that we rely on for the movement of commuters? Especially the like of the M1, that runs alongside a perfectly good railway line? Off topic, I know, but it has a big part to play in the problems on our roads.

Get onto that perfectly good railway line yourself and the freight trucks wont bother you.

Wertz

Sandwich wrote: »

Get onto that perfectly good railway line yourself and the freight trucks wont bother you.

Please don't preach to me thanks, I travel to work and home everyday in a van with at least 3 others and necessary tools and materials, taking turns to drive. I see plenty of who you're talking about sitting in their company car on their own listening to Ian Dempsey and playing with the satnav on the way to do a few hours in office, but I'm not one of them.
As a van we pay twice the toll fees any of the single driver cars pay and we gte to sit in queues of traffic with singletons blocking the way.
Sorry, but public transport and tradesman isn't a workable combination.

Tails142

For freight trains to be more economical than road transport the distance involved have to be several hundred kilometers - otherwise the additional costs of bringing it to a rail station, loading freight trains, unloading at other end and bringing to destination are too costly. Simple as

Tomas_V

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Thread is typical of Irish motorists driving habits generally. Some don't know what's the correct interpretation of the position, others do but will knowingly flaunt the law.

Indeed some flout while others flaunt.:D

meathstevie

Right folks, a touch philosphical but for everyone undertaking at or below the speedlimit there's someone in the righthand lane driving without due care and attention

Oilrig

I took the liberty of asking for informed opinion on this one:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055221070