Disgraceful treatment by a dealer tonight...

Macspower

I'm just in from a live game and I have to say that the behaviour and manner of a dealer in a card club tonight was nothing short of disgraceful..... totally unacceptable IMO....

I'll give you details and let me know what you think....

Tonite a boardsie contacted me and asked would I go and play live... I hadn't planned but decided to go... when I got there I met another regular player (not sure if he is a boardsie) but dublin players would know the guy... He is a nice guy and he was sitting to my left in seat 9 beside the dealer and had also been asked along by the boardsie I mention... It was his first Night in the club and I had been there only a few times before...

This is really not important but I mention it anyway..... maybe I'm wrong about this but the dealer in question seemed completely uninterested in the game and the action seemed hard to follow and you would have to constantly ask him "is that a raise" .. Also his eye contact with the action seemed lacking as it was hard to tell where the action was at sometimes.... but maybe he is always like this and I cant really blame him as he hadn't done anything wrong but he had given wrong change once and gave my change to the wrong player once as well.... I just though he might be new but the more I think of it I think it was real lack of interest..

the night was going well with a nice friendly game when the following happened....... there is a raise somewhere to 30 preflop and it comes to me and I fold... the player beside me (guy in question) looks at his cards and the dealer looks to his left at seat one and seat one folds and does seat 2 and seat 3 calls 30.... this all happened in a second... player in seat 9 anounces that he hasn't acted yet and seat 2 folds as well out fo turn... the dealer says to the player in seat 9 "30 to you" as the player reaches for his chips the player that had called out of turn says something to him... I think it was "will you watch the action"... "hurry up" the player in seat 9 says back to the other player "give me a chance..."

It's at this stage I can't believe what happened!!!

The dealer turns to the guy in seat 9 and says very nastily "dont speak back to a player on my table ...30 to you... and puts his finger up to the player" the player says "dont speak to me like that and the dealer gets totaly out of order with the player and tells him it's his table and he'll say what he likes!... the player protests and is shushed by the dealer who continually shouts him down and repeats 30 to you..... dont say anythign more... dont say any more... in a very arrogant way

I thought this was wrong and I interupted and said dealer your wrong to speak to anyone like this.. and then he turns on me... he tells me it's none of my business and to stay out of it.... he put his hand up to me anytime I wanted to speak and kept hushing me telling me it had nothing to do with me... I pointed that once I had paid rake at the table it was my concern and I didn't like how he was speaking to the player..... the dealer only got more arogant and I asked who was in charge and could I see him... he smarmily said "I believe that is me" and he proceeds to deal the next hand.....

I said to the guy beside me in seat 9 that is disgraceful... the dealer turns to me again and said.... not another word out of you.... do you hear me!! I replied "I'm entitled to talk ... what are you going to do if I do say something.... he dealt on for a sec..... the player in seat 9 asked me who can he complain to .... and I said "it's a small town club.... hard to do anything." the dealer again stopped dealing and turned to me and said what was your last comment? " I want you to repeat that last comment NOW! I gladly repeated it fpor everyone to hear and he again warns me not another word!!!

I again discuss the matter with the other player and the dealer changes tables.... the guy in seat 9 was a nice guy and was totally flaberghasted at the dealers arrogance and really couldn't play after that.... I opted to leave and cash out...

I would be interested before I name the club in question to hear from the other boardsie that was at the table and see is my assessment of the situation correct and are my facts correct..... as also you opinion please...

I felt bad for the guy on his first (and last I'm sure) visit to the club and it certainly doesn't entice me to go back or recommend the place TBH..

what would you do from here?

complain to the management? i dont even know who they are?

Helper_Monkey

I wasnt at this game but I just want to say that, as a part time Holdem dealer myself, there have been times when I've been shocked by the rudeness of some dealers towards, what are essentially, the casino's (the dealer's employers) customers. It seems to be the only job in which an employee can get away with baltant arrogance to a customer and face little or no consequences.
There was one particular case where I asked a dealer to hurry the game up because (similar to this situation) the dealer seemed uninterested and had missed a number of clear checks by players over the space of maybe an hour of play. We would sit and wait until someone would have to explain to the dealer that a player had acted and play was waiting on him to continue.
Upon bringing this to the dealers attention for the Nth time he suddenly exploded at me, similarily explaining that it was his table and who was I, a lowly rake paying customer, to tell him what to do. What was most shocking was that the cardroom manager was sitting not 5 yards away in full ear shot of the situation and sat with a 'customer care' smile slapped across his face. If it wasnt for another player at the table reiterating my position, and defending my comment, I would have been left feeling extremely embarrased, not to mention upset by the dealers attack.
I didn't approach the manager as I should have, possibly out of some misplaced solidarity with the dealer. Why is it that there is the psychological arena there for such fearless disregard for the customer? This seems to be unique amoung poker dealers in irish casinos. Is it our, the customers', fault?

5starpool

In any of the places I have played I have never come across behavious like this, although there have been certain times when I felt dealers didn't conduct themselves as well as they could. It can be a thankless job being a dealer, but the vast majority conduct themselves excellently, and may be let down by a minorit it seems. I'd be shocked if this was one of the 4 established casinos in town, but at the same time, i've been shocked before I guess. The fact that Macs doesn't know the management which I'd imagine he does at the main 4, leans me towards guessing that it wasn't but if it was I'm sure some of the reps from them that post here will listen and act upon it.

Heisenberg.

This post has been deleted.

hf4z6sqo7vjngi

disgraceful treatment Macs, TBH if it was me i would have to be tied down. Name and shame!!! someone on here may know the mgt so you can inform them of this dealers attitude.

JP Poker

I can't believe a dealer was allowed to speak to players like. If i saw a dealer give a player the finger i would find it very hard not to sack him/her.

Helper_Monkey

Can't speak for MACSPOWER but in my case it was one of the 'big 4'

Helper_Monkey

The Scientist wrote: »

Pretty easy to condemn the place if this is the truth, but i bet the dealer has a differnet story and i dont think its fair to name the place when they dont have a chance to tell their side of the story.

I believe you are respoding to macspower's comment, however, the dealer's ''side of the story'' is irrelevent, and YES it is perfectly fair to condem an establishment if their staff are treating the customers this way.

Heisenberg.

This post has been deleted.

Helper_Monkey

The Scientist wrote: »

I think the dealers story is very relevant.
I'm in no way advocating Mac's story to be false, i'm just saying there's 2 sides to every story.

No. The customer is ALWAYS right. 'Cept in poker<?>.

MickL

For someone to speak to another person like this is a disgrace and deserves a smack and thats my opinion of it!!!

Helper_Monkey

Just to set the record straight, I believe giving heroin to dealers is a beautiful idea.

tricky D

Helper_Monkey wrote: »

No. The customer is ALWAYS right. 'Cept in poker<?>.

The customer deserves to treated fairly.

Helper_Monkey

tricky D wrote: »

The customer deserves to treated fairly.

By this I assume you mean by the management.

Hectorjelly

Please post or PM where this happened paul!

tricky D

Helper_Monkey wrote: »

By this I assume you mean by the management.

Extra specially so.

Helper_Monkey

I said this cuz I believe only the management, NOT the dealers, have any say in whether the customer isi being treated fairly or not.

jbravado

Hectorjelly wrote: »

Please post or PM where this happened paul!

.

Rb

Just name and shame, absolutely disgraceful behaviour so it should be fully out in the open where it was and if possible, what the dealers name is.

luckylucky

The Scientist wrote: »

i'm just saying there's 2 sides to every story.

Is it just me or is this often used phrase one of the most irritatingly overused and also not always true.

Sometimes there is a one clearly innocent and one clearly guilty party in a story!

Macspower has very clearly outlined the events of the night. I'm full sure he is not lying so I can't see how the dealer can come out in a positive light in this regardless of his 'story', unless he perhaps apologises and has some very good excuse.

Bandara

luckylucky wrote: »

Is it just me or is this often used phrase one of the most irritatingly overused and also not always true.

Sometimes there is a one clearly innocent and one clearly guilty party in a story!

Macspower has very clearly outlined the events of the night. I'm full sure he is not lying so I can't see how the dealer can come out in a positive light in this regardless of his 'story', unless he perhaps apologises and has some very good excuse.

maybe, but its better to be innocent until proven guility, than to have it the other way round.

luckylucky

Hammertime wrote: »

maybe, but its better to be innocent until proven guility, than to have it the other way round.

Well there's certainly no harm in hearing the dealer's side of it. I just think it's kinda bit off to use lines like 'if this is the truth' in regards to Macspower, he's a regular here, always very helpful to other boardies when they have questions. Probably just about the last person here imo who would make up a story or for that matter twist a story or get the details wrong even.

From what I can make of Macs story I think the likely reply from the dealer would read something like 'Well it was my table, eh, eh, he should have done what I said'

bottom feeder

There’s no way I’d put up with this nonsense – im glad to say this has never happened to me but if it did im not sure what I’d do, for a start I’d leave the table because I’d find it hard not to Slap the taste out of this muppet!!

I think as poker players ‘paying customers’ we are entitled to know who and where this happened. Paul if I were you I’d confront / write a letter of complaint to the management and seek some sort of apology for you and the guy in question, hopefully this will not discourage the guy from playing poker in future.

Hitman Actual

JP Poker wrote: »

I can't believe a dealer was allowed to speak to players like. If i saw a dealer give a player the finger i would find it very hard not to sack him/her.

I think he pointed the finger, not gave it! Not that I'm defending the dealer here, he sounds well out of order.

Fatboydim

There is no excuse. If it were a bar and the bar tender spoke to a customer like that he'd be sacked. Certainly as a customer you would walk out. The difference with poker however is that it's not always that easy to walk out. You have money invested at that table.

At the very least this dealer was rude, incompetent and had lost control of the table.

Macspower

I havn't named the club as yet as I am interested in having the opinion of the other boardsie at the table.... I also think the player in seat 9 is an infrequent boards poster as well and maybe we'll hear from him as well.... I'm also mailing the management with a complaint and a link to this thread so they will have a chance to respond if they so wish to....

bohsman

Dealing is certainly not a thankless task, thats the last tip he'd ever get off me.

ZZR1100

luckylucky wrote: »

Is it just me or is this often used phrase one of the most irritatingly overused and also not always true.

Sometimes there is a one clearly innocent and one clearly guilty party in a story!

Macspower has very clearly outlined the events of the night. I'm full sure he is not lying so I can't see how the dealer can come out in a positive light in this regardless of his 'story', unless he perhaps apologises and has some very good excuse.

You have never watched judge judy i take it.
personal i dont think these disputes should even make it to boards.
If mac has a problem with the dealer then take it up with the dealer or the club managment.

LuckyLloyd

This post has been deleted.

OilBeefHooked2

Macspower wrote: »

I havn't named the club as yet as I am interested in having the opinion of the other boardsie at the table.... I also think the player in seat 9 is an infrequent boards poster as well and maybe we'll hear from him as well.... I'm also mailing the management with a complaint and a link to this thread so they will have a chance to respond if they so wish to....

100% in agreement that the behaviour and attitude of the dealer is unacceptable, unfortunately occasionally you will come across dealers like this.
In fairness why didn't you try to speak to the management in person first before posting, you might have got a satisfactory outcome.

Fatboydim

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Yup. These threads are pointless until that happens. Remember that the act of naming also allows the accused to reply and give their side of the story.

Why should Macs feel that he can't say where this happened? If you're not willing to name the club in this type of thread it should be locked IMO.

Another point - If this happened in say Connie's club [I use Connie as an example because we all know what a stand up guy he is] Connie would want to know about it and take appropriate action.

If I were running a cardroom I would certainly want to know. It's also probably unhelpful to have all the speculation.

Macspower

Guys this was posted to get an opinion as to what do next... I have outlined exactly what happened... yet to be verified by others..... but I'm sure they will have an opinion...

My own views are prob not important as to his dealing skills or lack of bu..

Fact 1 The dealer spoke very rudely puting his finger up to the players face and telling him to stay quiet

Fact 2 He repeated to me several times "not another word from you!" when I tried to stand up for the player in question

Fact 3 We had given the dealer no reason to act in this manner and in fact had been very courteous and tipping well on top of what I considered to be a heaftey enough rake of a little over €10 pp p/h... (ie.. we were not drunk or anything either) were prob spoiled with the 4 big clubs in dublin and good reports from some others around the country... but I've never been spoken to by a dealer in this manner and I hope I never will be again.....

The reason the club is not named yet is I am giving them a chance to reply and I'm also giving my story a chance to get verified... but I have no problem naming them after they have a chance to reply..

If mods think this shouldn't get posted here.... then by all means close it up and I'll deal directly with management....

I know if it was my club I'd want to know about and would defend my club if i was in the right or apologise if I was in the wrong...

ghcads

hi mac,
its nimsay1. i personally would of grabbed him by the throat and shoved the dealer button in his mouth. hoping that the dealer button was unusally large to aid the visually impaired. But i do agree some of the dealers do think above their station. i understand they have to have some control over the table, but i think it goes to their head in some instances. I still go the live games where the players have to deal. and i hate sitting in seat 10. i hate dealing. so beggars cant be choosers. but yeah....totally out of order.

Nimsay1

peeko

wow he shouldn't be a dealer, very harsh scenario mac, fair play for being outspoken on the table.

Macspower

peeko wrote: »

wow he shouldn't be a dealer, very harsh scenario mac, fair play for being outspoken on the table.

It's a thing with me...... if i see something wrong I have to say something..... I also think the fact that I'm at the table paying rake gives me the right to have a say and not be told it's none of my business

Nerin

wow he shouldn't be a dealer, very harsh scenario mac, fair play for being outspoken on the table.

+1
my housemate does a bit of dealing part time and sometimes players can be a bit mouthy,but that sort of crap from a dealr is not acceptable

Macspower

Ok having discussed the matter with some others via MSN I've decided to name the club... as I'm 100% sure of my account of things and if I'm not right about soemthing I'm sure I'll be corrected....

also if mods think it's not appropriate to name them I'm sure it will be edited accordingly...

I'm sure if it was one of the big 4 in dublin a post along the lines of disgracefull treatment by dealer in XXX card club would be made without problem so I dont see how this is different.. then again I couldn't ever see it happening there and if it did there would be a manager on hand ot deal with it....

I've mailed the club and linked this here

club is www.theloftcardclub.ie

semibluff

ive a place in mind, and if its the same place im not surprised at all. please name it paul

semibluff

We currently have a vacancy for a full time dealer to start on 11/1/08

Mail Info@theloftcardclub.ie with cv for more details


LOL - irony!!!

i created a better website in first year computer science!

carlop

click on the tournament link on the site to see their 'tournament schedual'

ZZR1100

Has to be the worst designed website ive seen in years.
Anyway the owner / manager is a member of boards and should be informed about this thread before it goes any further.
Kelly also knows him / them

Butcherboy
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055158176

Macspower

ZZR1100 wrote: »

Has to be the worst designed website ive seen in years.
Anyway the owner / manager is a member of boards and should be informed about this thread before it goes any further.
Kelly also knows him / them

Butcherboy
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055158176

has been informed as stated earlier... I've also included my phone number and e-mail if he wants to discuss the matter

bottom feeder

Website + Dealer = CRAP !

mocata

Maybe they have had this kind of issue a lot, i see a link to a solicitors on their page!

Macspower

the player in seat 9 was a boardsie... Kayroo I'm reliably informed.... I've Pmed him as well and the other boardsie who was at the table but involved at all was Thereisalwaysone... although he may not want ot get involved as he is a reg there..... but I would appreciate an opinion nevertheless

rag2gar

Cowboys.

Im sure kayroo and theresalwaysone will have no problem airing their opinions

mickste

This club wouln't be the one with an outstanding html webpage with neverending snowflakes on it would it?

Ollieboy

If this happen to me at a casino, I wouldn't be leaving without all my tips back and dealer leaving with his P45 our a apology to the players involved etc. I think you should have taken this matter up at the time with the club management.

I would build a bridge now and get over it and not return to this club as you've already stated.

I think you were also correct to post it here to make other players aware of the problem and also to start a discussion about the very odd instantance of bad dealers in cash games.

Mr.Plough

this would make me want to play in the club to wind up the dealer tbh. new selling point?

myflipflops

"Careers/Jobs

We currently have a vacancy for a full time dealer to start on 11/1/08"

How has nobody noticed this on their site yet???

Macspower

Ollieboy wrote: »

If this happen to me at a casino, I wouldn't be leaving without all my tips back and dealer leaving with his P45 our a apology to the players involved etc. I think you should have taken this matter up at the time with the club management.

I would build a bridge now and get over it and not return to this club as you've already stated.

I think you were also correct to post it here to make other players aware of the problem and also to start a discussion about the very odd instantance of bad dealers in cash games.

there was no management on the premises... as I asked to see the manager.... when I asked who was in charge he smarimly replied "I believe that would be me..." I asked who could I copmplain to and was told there was a dealer at the other table if I wanted ot complain to him but this waas just a smart amswer..... the dealer at the onter table BTW is a gentleman... I think his name is ICKEY? a chineese guy who deals and used to play with me the jackpot... top guy...