Public Speaking

wingnut32

Okay...I have been trying to deal with a problem that has affected me for the last four years and is so bad im contemplating leaving the job that I have been for the last ten years.

The problem started after use of E many years ago, at first it wasnt that bad but through the years I would now consider it a phobia...I cannot and will not do any public speaking, I wont even go to the monthly presentation in case I might be asked something, and more worrying than this I cant even speak at a meeting without shi**ing myself.

I am a manager in my job and am suprised I have gotten away with this for so long, it really hit home when I had to turn down a promotion because I knew it involved public speaking..

I have been to my GP and tried hypnotherapy but nothing has worked, will I have to pay for the mistakes I made when I was younger and just accept my career is pretty much over because of this??

Carrigart Exile

wingnut32 wrote: »

Okay...I have been trying to deal with a problem that has affected me for the last four years and is so bad im contemplating leaving the job that I have been for the last ten years.

The problem started after use of E many years ago, at first it wasnt that bad but through the years I would now consider it a phobia...I cannot and will not do any public speaking, I wont even go to the monthly presentation in case I might be asked something, and more worrying than this I cant even speak at a meeting without shi**ing myself.

I am a manager in my job and am suprised I have gotten away with this for so long, it really hit home when I had to turn down a promotion because I knew it involved public speaking..

I have been to my GP and tried hypnotherapy but nothing has worked, will I have to pay for the mistakes I made when I was younger and just accept my career is pretty much over because of this??

I have to stand on my hind legs and talk to various groups and yes it is nerve wracking. I've found two things help me, one telling myself I know more about the subject than those I am about to speak to and two, treating it as a bit of theatre.

Miss Fluff

Why do you associate it with E use?

Gregor Samsa

Fear of public speaking is one of the most common phobias, and while you seem to have quite a bad case of it, it's not unusual and may not be related to your past E use.

Have you heard of, or considered joining, Toastmasters (http://d71.org/portal.php?page=-1&marknow=0)? They're a club that is all about overcoming your fear of public speaking and developing the skills and techniques necessary to speak in public. They have clubs all around the country, and since overcoming the fear of public speaking is exactly what they specialise in, you stand a very good chance of finding the support and tools necessary to beat this.

As I'm sure you'll agree, if there's an international club devoted to this issue, it can't be that unusual to suffer from it and it looks like they have plenty of success in helping people in your situation. Also, they're a well respected organisation that many people join for purely social or professional reasons. So it's not like you're going to a support group that you might not want other people to know about. It would even be a worthy addition to your CV.

redman

phutyle wrote: »

Have you heard of, or considered joining, Toastmasters (http://d71.org/portal.php?page=-1&marknow=0)?

I second that, seen many people go through Toastmasters and changed their lives. High recommended with many clubs around ireland

Ghost Train

CBT (Cognitive Behavioural Therapy) is something that a lot of people find helps with anxiety related problems. This is a good book that uses the same ideas, might be worth looking at http://www.amazon.com/Mind-Over-Mood-Change-Changing/dp/0898621283

If youre actually still doing public speaking as part of your job and hating it, doing even more of it at something like toastmasters mightn't make you feel any better about it. Not suggesting toastmasters is a bad idea just might be might be something to look at to understand the anxiety

beaushalloe

wingnuts32
i totally sympathis with you, public speaking for me is a huge issue (and its so easy for people to say you'll get over it) i sometimes have do do it as part of my job, and i never like it (to the point of mild and sometimes full blown panic attacks) ive tried all sorts of herbal aids such as rescue remidy, belladonna etc and i even attended hypnotherapy which i found good but didnt help in that area. and i also attribute some of the fear to past drug missue.

however i have found, as horrible as it is to do it does get easier as you go on. each time i do it i feel i have achieved it, im so thrilled with myself for beating the fear, and its this positive thinking that builds up each time that makes it easier.

for my wedding last year i spoke unscripted to over 200 people and when i watched it on the dvd i was so pleased with myself you woulnt believe.
having said that i wouldnt like to be doing it as a major part of my job, but im able to pass myself. have faith in yourself and heaps of positive reaffirmiations should help.

Nevyn

Rescue remedy is an over the counter product that can be gotten from any chemist and is a tried and tested product.

Belladonna is not safe for self medication as it contains digitalis which is used to regulate the heart in prescription medication. Please do not be taking such things with out a drs care.

wingnut32

thanks for the feedback guys, but i have to tell u i am this late because i am so scared of going into work tomorrow because there is a team brief which i dont even have to speak at...but maybe might get asked a question f**cking ridiculous

bronte

Hiya!

I know it's scary , the important thing to remember is that a lot of people are not comfortable in that situation and will feel on the spot.
You are not alone!
There is no hurry on you to give an answer.
If you have to give a speech/answer a question, take your time, take a deep breath and think about what you want to say.
Speak clearly and slowly..too many people rush through everything.
It's a sign of intelligence if you take your time!

wingnut32

apologies for ranting..ive had a few drinks tonight, but i have so much to say so much to contribute but when a simple meeting takes place i freeze up.....

So very very frustrating.....

bronte

wingnut32 wrote: »

apologies for ranting..ive had a few drinks tonight, but i have so much to say so much to contribute but when a simple meeting takes place i freeze up.....

So very very frustrating.....

I know it is!
Im an actress so i know what it is to freeze sometimes

You need to breathe and know the these people are just that...people.
Picture them in their underwear!
It's a cliche but it does work!
You would not be in your job this long if you didn't know what you were doing.
You CAN talk about this!
Don't apologise for ranting..I KNOW it can suck!

wingnut32

bronte thanks for replying, thing is i cant even get to speaking without chickening out, in other words i havent had to do it in weeks and refuse to do so.........i even got my psv licence....

wylo

Hi OP, just wanna let you know that I can really really relate to your problem. It progressed worse and worse the older i got which i never thought would happen. I really dont think its drug related, perhaps you might be using that as an excuse to yourself.
But it can be really terrifying.

The start of the meeting - a small bit nervous but not too bad. It then starts nearing your turn, hands are sweaty, breaths are more difficult. It then gets even closer to your turn and the legs are shaking. Standing up can be a real killer and the mind goes blank. By the time your speaking your eyes are practically seeing pins and needles and your whole body is shaking and hot,especially the legs. The worst part is thinking that no one else in the room is like that.

For me though the more I did them, the easier it got, and whenever I did say something succesfully confidence immediately grew, and it was like going on a scary water slide I wanted to say more and more.
Unfortunately I cant think of actual practical advice that can instantly help only to perhaps listen to something like "Paul Mckenna - instant confidence" , it sort of helps train your mind to believe in yourself and reminds you of how actually insignificent this little speech in a meeting is to your overall life. Think about it, when your 80 years of age looking back on your life, that meeting where you were nervous probably wont be in your memories of life changing experiences.

wylo

Also if you can train your mind that every time you go out of your comfort zone your life will improve, you will be flying it! I used have small social troubles ,simple as ringing a company or something to ask a few questions would make me feel uncomfortable. What im saying is EVERY TIME you get an uncomfortable feeling about doing something,battle through it instead of sinking back into the "I feel sorry for myself" stage. Treat it like a punch bag, give it a punch instead of retreating. It is rewarding 100% of the time.

JC 2K3

I'm not aware of any evidence of E causing loss of confidence. People's personalities change naturally anyway. I think you're just using that as an excuse to yourself, OP. If you approach the issue as something that a drug caused that will be hard, if not impossible, to reverse, you'll get nowhere. If you approach the issue as a perfectly normal and reversible personality change, then you'll find it much easier to address it.

meesa

I have a similar problem wingnut if it`s any consolation. I am petrified of going into anywhere that I have to sign or write in front of anyone as I start to shake like a leaf!..I too am quite ashamed of this as I am a well respected business owner for many years dealing with the public every day so I just can`t understand what`s at the root of my problem. I too try to avoid these situations but sometimes they are unavoidable, I don`t find it getting any easier with time either. Ah well we all have our Achilles heel..I just wish mine was a fear of spiders or something more `normal`..!! If you find any magic cure let me know.....best of luck anyway. BTW...does anyone else have similar problem?:(

bronte

Op , I don't know if you will be able to log on in work ,but I hope today isn't too stressful for you.

gollem_1975

wingnut32 wrote: »

Okay...I have been trying to deal with a problem that has affected me for the last four years and is so bad im contemplating leaving the job that I have been for the last ten years.

The problem started after use of E many years ago, at first it wasnt that bad but through the years I would now consider it a phobia...I cannot and will not do any public speaking, I wont even go to the monthly presentation in case I might be asked something, and more worrying than this I cant even speak at a meeting without shi**ing myself.

I am a manager in my job and am suprised I have gotten away with this for so long, it really hit home when I had to turn down a promotion because I knew it involved public speaking..

I have been to my GP and tried hypnotherapy but nothing has worked, will I have to pay for the mistakes I made when I was younger and just accept my career is pretty much over because of this??

first of all I would advise you ( or anyone for that matter ) to join Toastmasters.

As you feel that public speaking/presentation skills are a necessary part of your job would you consider going to a professional Presentation skills coach ?

I haven't used one myself but I can try to source one through my Toastmasters contacts. PM me if you would like me to do this.
Alternatively I'd say you could find one using google.

regards,

Gollem

LegacyUser

OP I can relate very much to your problem and I can relate to many of the other contributors to this thread. I too have suffered similarly to yourself.

First & foremost, public speaking anxiety/phobia is too common to pass it off as a consequence of drug misuse. As other posters have suggested, this is just an excuse you have made for yourself.

Secondly, Hypnotherapy does not work and is not the answer. Yes, just like you I took the “lazy option” and thought that four sessions of hypnotherapy would make a difference. But it didn’t.

Books? You can read as many books regarding positive thinking as you want (I have) and again these wont make a damn of a difference other than convince you that
a) you’re not alone,
b) you can do something about it.

I can tell you categorically that the only way you can beat this fear is to face it head on. Never ending avoidance is much worse that facing your fears.

So to conclude: If you want to fix this problem, as I am in the process of doing, you need to expose yourself to these fears and join a public speaking course or toastmasters as others have suggested.

Consider it a personal life long challenge that you are determined to overcome and not only overcome your fears of public speaking, but become a great public speaker.

I guarantee that this is the only way to do it. And if you embark on this (frightening at first) journey, it will be life changing and you will be a totally different person when you get out the other end.

Don’t waste anymore time thinking about it either. Its now the time when the adult education evening courses start in schools all over the country. Find one with a public speaking course and join it. If you’re based in Dublin reply to my post and I will PM you with more information.

LegacyUser

Hi OP,

That's exactly what I'm going through at the moment. I was actually going to start my own post about this topic before I read yours.

I'm glad that I'm not alone, so thanks for posting! You're right though, it can seem so ridiculous. I think it could be one of the worst fears or phobias, as I always think that if I appear nervous or jittery, everybody else will notice and be like "wtf", and you will look a right tool, as opposed to maybe somebody that is afraid of flying. That's totally acceptable like.

It has gotten to the stage where, if for example, I know I have a meeting in the afternoon, I won't be able to digest my lunch food properly, and I get bout of the...yeah.

It's easy for people that dont know how it feels to say "face up to it, head on, just get it over with" etc, and that's what you think in hindsight, and in times like this when you know it's not going to happen in the forseeable future.

But, when the situation presents itself, you get more and more nervous, and speaking is the last f**king thing you wana do. It's a big issue that's rearing it's ugly head time and time again.

All I can say to possibly help is...quite a few of us around the world are like this, and backing out isn't the answer, because that way it's always at the back of your mind anyway.

So getting rid of this thing is the answer, but the question is...how?

Sorry for the long post and if this didn't help..

Meself

I am in a similar situation myself. The worst is when your voice starts to tremble when speaking!! I'm thinking of actually going to toastmasters this Thursday.

Gollem 1975 - can i ask what a typical session in toastmasters involves?

Philbert

retoe wrote: »

So getting rid of this thing is the answer, but the question is...how?

I think the only way is as already suggested, facing the problem head on and doing what you fear most. As much as possible and at every opportunity available to you.

You used the "fear of flying" analogy, which is a perfect example. How do you think somebody who has a fear of flying overcomes their phobia?
Yes, you guessed it! :eek:

I mean, what are the alternatives? Hypnotherapy?, “Rescue remedy”?, Books?, alcohol?, drugs?, [insert miracle cure here].

If anyone has a better suggestion id like to hear it.

ollyk1

Meself wrote: »

I am in a similar situation myself. The worst is when your voice starts to tremble when speaking!! I'm thinking of actually going to toastmasters this Thursday.

Gollem 1975 - can i ask what a typical session in toastmasters involves?

Firstly you won't have to stand up and speak at your first meeting!!

Simply explaining what happens won't fully convey a meeting to you. I'd really suggest going along with an open mind and try to enjoy yourself.

Remember that it isn't a work environment, you won't know anybody there and 90% of the people there will have experienced some nervousness issues in relation to public speaking at some stage (not all to the same degree for sure but there will be plenty of members who will be able to relate).

Check out these links for more info and answers to questions.

I think the best advice I've ever gotten in relation to public speaking is that "Public speaking is a skill and like any skill it can be improved and worked upon"

Good luck.

squibs

If you can pull off one good presentation, it gets really easy after that.

Build up to it. Plan your moment. Find a presentation where the subject area is something on which you are an acknowledged expert. Spend a ridiculous ammount of time preparing for it. Rehearse your speech in front of the mirror. Play devils advocate with yourself and think of the worst questions you could be asked. Tip - "I'm glad you asked me that - It would take some time to cover that adequately, can I send you some information on that later and arrange a chat?" - professional, courteous, and conveys the impression you know the answer (which you can research in your own time after).

Now here's the important part - build up to it like I said, but don't actually volunteer to do the presentation. On the day, attend and observe the performance of whoever does do the presenting. Compare and contrast - could you have done a better job?

Next time, do volunteer.

It will be terrifying, but present to the spot 6 inches over peoples heads (this trick means you dont have to make eye contact, but it seems like you are). Above all, pause. After every sentence. Dont utter the next one until you have run it past your brain and it passes quality control. This will be quite easy if you have prepared as discussed. Done correctly, it lends gravitas, lets the message sink in and conveys confidence.

Get through it, and the next presentation will be easier. The next will be easier than that. You may never like presenting to people, but it will help you develop and you will be more confident in all aspects of life for it.

gollem_1975

Meself wrote: »

I am in a similar situation myself. The worst is when your voice starts to tremble when speaking!! I'm thinking of actually going to toastmasters this Thursday.

Gollem 1975 - can i ask what a typical session in toastmasters involves?

here is an outline of what happens at a typical meeting at my club.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=54850379&postcount=16

regards,

Gollem

aidan24326

Philbert wrote: »

I think the only way is as already suggested, facing the problem head on and doing what you fear most. As much as possible and at every opportunity available to you.

I'd agree with you Philbert. I had a fear of public speaking years ago, would have dreaded it. But after a couple of classes, and plenty of practise, I got used to it and became quite good at it. Bit the bullet and forced myself to do it until I got used to it. I think it's one of those things you have to confront head on. It's something very few people actually enjoy doing, even regular public speakers can still get a bit nervous. That's something to bear in mind.

wingnut32

Thanks for all the feedback, it does help knowing that there are others who have the same fear.

Gollem I would be interested in joining such a club, but to be honest id have trouble having the balls to join.

I have went to a couple of training courses in the past and when I knew there was speaking involved i would go to the toilet and not return.....

pwd

Speaking as someone who used to get completely tongue tied even speaking on the phone, I think it really is a case of just getting some practice.
Now I give tutorials to groups of 15-20 people typically and I'm not bothered by them.

To combat the fear while practicing: If you're doing a presentation, or if you know what sort of questions you might be asked, then rehearse what you're going to say. Rehearse repeatedly until you can say it all without thinking. You'll find yourself a lot more comortable if you can say everything you need to say off the top of your head than you would if you need to think - when you need to think is when you'll really feel on-the-spot.
If you're doing something more interactive, then try this technique: Choose someone in your audience and hold eye-contact with them until they look away. This has a very positive psychological effect on your confidence in addressing that crowd. Don't stare them down aggressively or anything, just hold their gaze.

Meself

thanks Gollem & ollyk1. I think i'm going to take the bull by the horns and go to a meeting tomorrow night in City Centre... its something i really want to tackle !!

Philbert

Meself wrote: »

thanks Gollem & ollyk1. I think i'm going to take the bull by the horns and go to a meeting tomorrow night in City Centre... its something i really want to tackle !!

Please report back and let us know how you got on!

Meself

Will do philbert,

Cheers

ollyk1

Meself wrote: »

thanks Gollem & ollyk1. I think i'm going to take the bull by the horns and go to a meeting tomorrow night in City Centre... its something i really want to tackle !!

Depending on which club it is I might see you there! Good luck with it.

theleprechaun

I was reading these posts and it has spurred me into action. I have been thinking about going to a toastmasters meeting for a while now but just have not to got around to it. I was thinking of going to one in dublin in Bushwell hotel on thursday next. Just a few questions. Is there a dress code? Secondly, where about in the Bushwells does the meeting take place. I hate wandering around places not going where I am going. Thanks

gollem_1975

theleprechaun wrote: »

I was reading these posts and it has spurred me into action. I have been thinking about going to a toastmasters meeting for a while now but just have not to got around to it. I was thinking of going to one in dublin in Bushwell hotel on thursday next. Just a few questions. Is there a dress code? Secondly, where about in the Bushwells does the meeting take place. I hate wandering around places not going where I am going. Thanks

Hi there,

did you go along to the meeting last thursday ?

if so you will have got the answers to your questions

if not , and for the benefit of any other readers , I will answer them for you.

There is no dress code.

the Dublin Toastmasters club meet in Buswells hotel .

they have a pretty good website ( www.toastmasters.ie ).

you will find contact email and phone numbers of people whos role in the club it is to give information to prospective members so please don't hesitate to contact them.

there are other clubs listed on

http://www.toastmasters.ie/otherclubs.html

Ideally you could go to any one of them and join the club that suits you the best. e.g. in terms of location , meeting time , club members etc.

my clubs site is

http://clontarf.freetoasthost.info/

as you can see you won't be taught web design at Toastmasters

Best of luck finding a club.

regards,

Gollem

gollem_1975

Just following up on my last post here to say that my club have just moved to a new venue , Clontarf Castle, and we'll be having our first meeting there on wednesday , April 29th. And everyone is welcome to come and visit.

the meeting begins at 8.15 and finishes at 10:30.

we break for tea and coffee at about 9:00.

anyone who wants to come along and see what happens at a Toastmasters meeting is very welcome to attend and there is no cover charge for visitors ( non members ). You are not expected to speak at the meeting and i guarantee you will be entertained.

The night is also special as on the evening we will have somebody who is giving their Icebreaker ( that is their first ever speech at the club).

trust me fear of public speaking is something you can get over through Toastmasters. You still get nervous , thats natural , but theres a nice expression that applies to Toastmasters training in that it helps "your butterflies to fly in formation"

for further information on Clontarf Marino Toastmasters please check out www.clontarfmarino.com

kind regards,

Gollem