Hot Hatch Opinions?

Gatster

Have to change the Impreza (work related) as it 'galvanizes' peoples opinions , and seeing as I haven't owned a hot hatch as yet (only 4x4's or estates left to go ) that's what I'm going for. Doesn't have to be quite as quick as the Impreza, but does have to be slightly more comfy whilst retaining a good bit of fun/involvement.

Drove, and fell in love with a an '07 Clio 197, seemed to tick all the boxes, but open to suggestions on the genre, and any good/bad experiences of same. Did look at a Mk IV R32 but the tax/fuel bills horrify me and I think it's too similar to the Impreza in a way. Oh yeah, and will the Clio get cheaper in July?

listermint

Drove a couple of Focus ST's 06 and 07 models. Cracking car super handling looks good and is very nippy to. Newer body coming this year around summer i think. I believe the Astra OTR Sri is quite nice to never been in one though.

Stephen

Do you need some kind of stealth hot hatch to avoid 'galvanising' opinions?

Ferris

MK5 Golf GTi, 3 door, and keep it standard. It looks classier than any other hot hatch imo. Really nice to drive also, and very quick. They're not the quickest of Hot Hatches around (see focus ST or Astra VXR) but they do have that classy look/feel.

Gatster

Do you need some kind of stealth hot hatch to avoid 'galvanising' opinions?

Why, do you know where I can get one? I'd like a sunroof, but it's not a deal breaker if it means I get picked up on radar. Hot hatches aren't as noticeable as the Impreza, but still retain the fun/practicality aspects I like.

I think the Golfs are lovely, if a bit common, but would want a white one :eek: Focus could be a contender though, I have a mate who works for Ford. I do like the Asta VXR (don't really want to go above 2ltr), but can't decide if it's a bit 'crashed into a Halfords'.

cabrwab

While i love the look of the Opel Astra OPC, its the scare factor it will drive you straight into a wall just cause you tried to go around a roundabout. I really liked the MPS mazda3. I think its not common, and it is fast enough but once again front wheel drive suicide.

listermint

Well id pop in to a few garages to pick up test drives on a couple of the hatches. I fell in love with the focus if only i had the cash to splurge:(

Stephen

Civic Type R? I lust after them.

TomMc

Why move away from the Subaru to lesser cars when polished big brother is as good if not better and very understated -

http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=731353

(This type of motor at least).

MarkN

Astra OPC (not VXR lads!) suffer from torque steer. Having said that, a good mate of mine is just about to buy his second one. The power delivery of them is lot rawer than the GTI, they also feel quite a bit quicker.

19s, that nice blue and the half leather Recaro seats make them look as far away from Halfords as every other hot hatch IMO.

The only hot hatch that does not shout about it in some way is an S3 in a normal metallic colour.

listermint

Imo Wagon does look good and im sure it drives like the nuts. but there is something about estates that make me feel old man-esque. just my two cents.

RobAMerc

I will take some flak for this I am sure - but the Clio's big brother the Megane 225 is supposed to be a cracking car - maybe even consider the diesel one (sorry can't remember its name)
The Mazda 3 MPS is also a good choice particularly if your looking to keep below the radar as you said.

but to be honest I think your own choice is probably the best drivers car

Buy the golf if you want least hastle and best resale when it come to shifting it, and it aint a bad motor either!

LarWright

cabrwab wrote: »

While i love the look of the Opel Astra OPC, its the scare factor it will drive you straight into a wall just cause you tried to go around a roundabout.

I have to disagree. As Mark said above, I'm going for my second one now and I love it... Yeah if you drive like a lunatic around corners you'll end up in a wall, but once you get used to the car it feels like you're actually driving something. Some cars give you this sense of being driven and the car is doing everything for you. The torque steer is a bit scary at first, but again, you'll learn haw to handle it.

Fuel economy wise, I don't drive mine like a Glanza owner and some tanks will get me 650 odd kms for between 48 and 50 euro so it's not bad at all.

Only downfall I do hate (but again am used to) is the tiny back window. It looks great outside, but inside there's a really bad blind spot.

Apart from that, acceleration is great, looks (IMHO) are the best in it's class, especially with the 19" upgrades and fuel economy can't be argued with for a 2.0 Turbo Petrol.

Cyrus

what was resale like on it for you lar and why are you changing, diff colour/spec?

old model Audi S3 - 225bhp, 4WD, Great Build Quality.

groupb

Most of the mags rate the megane R26 as their top hot hatch. A 300bhp focus RS is rumored to be arriving soon.

lightening

Is the new Impreza not a hot hatch?

RobAMerc

Based on what I read - which is a good bit (and not on boards I might add) the OPC would be totally outclassed by the Clio,Megane,Golf,MPS, and Focus - in no particular order

Its seems to be more style than substance - but imo thats the way Opels have been for a long time.

having said that the corsa VXR - is supposed to be quite good though.

meathstevie

Anything with the new 1.4 on steroids out of the VW stable ?

LarWright

Cyrus wrote: »

what was resale like on it for you lar and why are you changing, diff colour/spec?

It's hard to tell as mine has higher mileage than most but I've got a good trade in price for it... If I sell in the meantime all the better. Average 2006 on carzone as 27,000. Not as good as a Golf, but they do come with Half Leather and bigger wheels as standard etc...

Changing for a few reasons.... My current one is red, I want the Blue and have done since day one, but got a good deal on the red, and I want the Bi-Xenons back (had them on a 2005 Astra Sport Hatch and miss them lots!) Apart from that, main reason for changing is it's 2 years old and time for a new one!

Ferris

Bit of an off the wall one but what about a bmw 130i, I think the emissions are not too bad so the car tax wouldn't be huge under the new system. Very few here but you'd get one over the water. Its the only one here that would follow an Impreza up a twisty road.

Mini Cooper S??

omega man

I chose the Mazda 3 MPS over the usual suspects; gti, r32, opc, cupra and st etc. Its 2.3 260bhp turbo engine is cracking and with plenty of gadgets like a limited slip dif etc it copes more than well with all the power in the front wheels. Some minor grip issues in the wet like any fwd car mind you. I also picked the mps for practical reasons as i have kids and didnt want a certain image either, Its a real wolf in sheeps clothes job for sure! Its also a very well spec'd car with climate, half leather, xenons and a 3 year warranty as standard, beat that! I have had zero problems after 4 months touch wood. By the way a new one now costs 38K but come july will increase from 30 to 36% vrt and tax will more than double to 2K. Worth a test drive at least.

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/carreviews/firstdrives/203332/mazda_3.html

.Longshanks.

RobAMerc wrote: »

having said that the corsa VXR - is supposed to be quite good though.

Longshanks100

Longshanks100 wrote: »

Looks the business and it probably goes like stink.

Lets hope the steering wheel doesn't come off in your hands

.Longshanks.

ronoc wrote: »

Looks the business and it probably goes like stink.

Lets hope the steering wheel doesn't come off in your hands

No torque steer unless you totally nail it in 1st gear only. Other than that it never steps out of line. Looks ever better with the optional 18"s but I would be on a few roads that just wouldn't agree with them. Its got 190 bhp and from reading UK sites it can easily be remapped to about 220bhp if you wanted

LarWright

ronoc wrote: »

Looks the business and it probably goes like stink.

Lets hope the steering wheel doesn't come off in your hands

It certainly does look great.... The Recaro's in it are savage looking too.... I think I read somewhere that the Astra SXi/SRi is coming in a 1.6 Turbo version kicking out around 180bhp. Possibly the same engine... I think the Corsa is a bit overpriced, 30000. When you consider the base model is around 16000. At least with the Astra its only a jump of around 11k from base 1.4 Sporthatch to the OPC. Nearly double in the Corsa!

Sweet looking tho, just a tad on the Girly side, no offence... (especially if the thread starter is coming from an Impreza!)

Ferris

Just thought of another one. Not a hatchback I know but the Mazda 6 MPS has the same HP of the Mazda 3 but with 4wd. Complete wolf in sheeps clothing too.

cabrwab

Ferris wrote: »

. Not a hatchback I know but the Mazda 6 MPS has the same HP of the Mazda 3 but with 4wd.

I do agree with that.
I was actually talking about the OPC torque steer, and yeah you can handle it but iam afraid i will never touch an OPEL or a Vauxhall, once bitten....
Do you know there was a recall on the corsa's cause the steering could just stop working, would that be a problem in that little bullit LONGSHANKS100.

I think come july the only thing getting cheaper is the washing machine that is the PRIUS! Its not just a green tax its a fun tax!

LIGHTNING

LIGHTNING wrote: »

That will be a practically useless car to drive, I had the pleasure of driving the ST around Mondello for a day and while it was rocket quick in a straight it couldn't go around corners! How about a nice Lancia Delta

There are still rumors that the RS will be AWD. If it is.. I'm going to sell a kidney to get that car

Biro

Hard to beat the Clio 197 for handling.

.Longshanks.

LarWright wrote: »

It certainly does look great.... The Recaro's in it are savage looking too.... I think I read somewhere that the Astra SXi/SRi is coming in a 1.6 Turbo version kicking out around 180bhp. Possibly the same engine...

You can get the 1.6 turbo engine in the Astra Sri but its actually more expensive than the corsa and its 180bhp instead of 190bhp and the astra obviously weights more too. I looked at both, and yeah the Recaro's are savage

LarWright wrote: »

Sweet looking tho, just a tad on the Girly side, no offence... (especially if the thread starter is coming from an Impreza!)

None taken:D Horses for courses!

cabrwab wrote: »

Do you know there was a recall on the corsa's cause the steering could just stop working, would that be a problem in that little bullit LONGSHANKS100

Yeah i hear that but from what i had read the recall was issued in Dec (UK anyways) - my car was only ordered then. I have checked with the dealer also.

Plug

lightening wrote: »

Is the new Impreza not a hot hatch?

Thats what I was going to say.
True, it is basically a golf R32 with 50hp extra.

E92

ronoc wrote: »

There are still rumours that the RS will be AWD. If it is.. I'm going to sell a kidney to get that car

It is going to be 4WD. It will be a more powerful version of the current ST engine.

E92

Longshanks100 wrote: »

That is a Corsa OPC.

Below is a photo of a Corsa VXR:

TheBazman

Does it have to be a hatch? What about one of these??

http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=869854

E92

E92 wrote: »

That is a Corsa OPC.

Below is a photo of a Corsa VXR:

Surely the badge is the only difference

Fizman

E92 wrote: »

That is a Corsa OPC.

Below is a photo of a Corsa VXR:

Aren't they exactly the same car? I'm fairly sure they are. Its VXR in the UK and OPC (opel performance center) over here. My mate has had a Astra OPC for the past 2 years and im pretty sure he put it something like that.

.Longshanks.

Fizman wrote: »

Aren't they exactly the same car? I'm fairly sure they are. Its VXR in the UK and OPC (opel performance center) over here. My mate has had a Astra OPC for the past 2 years and im pretty sure he put it something like that.

Spot on, OPC = opel performance center
http://www.opel-opc.com/

E92

OPC= Opel Performance Centre.

But some posters were posting about the Opel Corsa VXR;)! There is a Vauxhall Corsa VXR.

And no they are not the same I believe, the suspension is different in OPC models(it's softer), though RHD OPC cars are the same as VXR's bar the badges, but LHDs use different suspension settings AFAIK.

Gatster

Off to Liffey Valley to look at the Corsa OPC in minute, and will cast my eye over the Astra OPC they have as well.

Don't really want to go back to +3ltr engines so 130i is out (and probably on price, don't want to go over 27k-ish really) and unfortunately as it's a daily driver, Delta Intrgrales are definitely out

E92

The 130i pollutes 197 g/km, compared the OPC Corsa which pollutes 190 g/km, so if you're ruling out the BMW on the grounds that it will cost an arm and a leg on petrol, it actually is only a shade worse(CO2 emissions are directly related to fuel consumption).

Though the 130i has been slated in the press, so you're probably as well off to stay away from it.

The Corsa will be in the 28% VRT band in July, and also will cost €600 a year to tax(€428 from Feb), so you are clearly better off to get the Opel now if that is what you want.

Have a look at the VRT sticky, the emissions of most cars were uploaded last night, and I have put up Excel files giving a rough guide as to what cars will cost in July(I say rough because my calculations are flawed, but they should be only slightly assuming that any VRT saving/increase is passed on in full to the consumer) for Alfa-Opel inclusive, as well as Toyota.

.Longshanks.

Tax €600 after July but buy and tax it before 1st Feb '08 and the tax will only be €391. Next years will be €427 (391 + 9%)

Andrewf20

Gatster wrote: »

Focus could be a contender though, I have a mate who works for Ford. I do like the Asta VXR (don't really want to go above 2ltr), but can't decide if it's a bit 'crashed into a Halfords'.

Tax on a ST is 962euro at the mo and is in the process of getting a 10% hike.(I think its 2502cc, 3 cc less and it would be 821+10%euro!)

Henry Ford III

2522cc.

Biro

E92 wrote: »

(CO2 emissions are directly related to fuel consumption).

Not necessarily true... look at diesels in the last 5 years, significant drop in CO2 emissions, feck all difference in economy.

groupb

Ferris wrote: »

Bit of an off the wall one but what about a bmw 130i, I think the emissions are not too bad so the car tax wouldn't be huge under the new system. Very few here but you'd get one over the water. Its the only one here that would follow an Impreza up a twisty road.

Mini Cooper S??

The old focus RS was tested through a series of corners against a impreza by Autocar and was up to 10 mph quicker through most corners. In fairness this test was carried out on a dry track.

Gatster

It's widely acknowledged the old Focus Rs is only genuinely quick on marble-esque tarmac, once the terrain gets a bit choppy it comes unstuck...I'd be pretty confident in my Impreza against an RS on Irish roads . The 130i is out because of the purchase cost, more than anything else.

So, Liffey Valley - Corsa is like 'my first hot hatch', beautiful seats but awful semi-translucent switchgear in places and a lot smaller inside that the Clio and it looks too much like the bodykit was tacked on as an afterthought...however, the '08 Astra OPC thay have, phew :D:D

Went back to the Clio and I still love it and they are offering a great discount, but the Opel 50:50 deal on the Astra OPC probably makes more financial sense, bizarrely

Edit: What sort of discount should I be expecting of list for straight deal on the Astra?

Armin_Tamzarian

R32 Golf if you can afford the purchase price and the TAX.
They're not too flash if that's what you want.
Audi S3 would seem to suit you also, don't know much about them but I'd imagine they're decent.
Then there's the 106 Gti and the Saxo VTS but they'd probably be abit cramped.

E92

Biro wrote: »

Not necessarily true... look at diesels in the last 5 years, significant drop in CO2 emissions, feck all difference in economy.

Ah well I'm using the EU tests, and every gallon of petrol or diesel burned does produce CO2.

Just because the EU tests say a car will do x mpg doesn't mean it's ever going to do it(most cars never achieve their quoted figures);).

And diesel produces 13% more CO2 than a petrol, i.e. if a petrol and diesel both did 50 mpg, the diesel would have polluted 13% more CO2 in the process(not to mention more considerably more Particulates and Nitrous Oxide, though they only pollute something like half the Carbon Monoxide of a petrol, and also beat them on Hydrocarbon emissions).

Biro

E92 wrote: »

Ah well I'm using the EU tests, and every gallon of petrol or diesel burned does produce CO2.

Just because the EU tests say a car will do x mpg doesn't mean it's ever going to do it(most cars never achieve their quoted figures);).

And diesel produces 13% more CO2 than a petrol, i.e. if a petrol and diesel both did 50 mpg, the diesel would have polluted 13% more CO2 in the process(not to mention more considerably more Particulates and Nitrous Oxide, though they only pollute something like half the Carbon Monoxide of a petrol, and also beat them on Hydrocarbon emissions).

Ya, but that's my point. I know someone who's had a few Passat's for example. The mpg hasn't really changed between '98 and now, yet the quoted CO2 figures have dropped a good bit. My point is that the mpg is an accurate reading, the same person using the cars in the same way, and getting similar mpg, regardless of any official figures.
So maybe the CO2 figures are the farce. Particle filters etc can only do so much! If that's the case, we're all being fooled!

ianobrien

Biro wrote: »

Hard to beat the Clio 197 for handling.

I drove one and found it far too skitty over bumps when pushing on.

On back roads, it was bloody hard work with the back of it jumping around. It was worse than my AX GT (that'll go sideways if you go over a pebble!). On smooth roads, massive grip and cornered amazingly well, but hates bumps!