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communism - how it went wrong

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  • 17-01-2008 12:54pm
    #1
    conor2007
    Closed Accounts Posts: 636 ✭✭✭


    communism - great idea - too bad it was implemented by a crazy russian

    skimpy - vague comment i know - but you get the gist


    what do ye think?


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    #2
    Morlar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,273 ✭✭✭Morlar


    conor2007 wrote: »
    communism - great idea - too bad it was implemented by a crazy russian

    skimpy - vague comment i know - but you get the gist


    what do ye think?


    Dont normally point people to music videos but this one has some facts and figures in the background that might be useful.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iyUu-8nbd58


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    #3
    scruff321
    Registered Users Posts: 729 ✭✭✭scruff321


    seems like a good idea in theory but in practise proved over andd over again that doesnt work


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    #4
    conor2007
    Closed Accounts Posts: 636 ✭✭✭conor2007


    okay

    do people believe it could work - or now given the way it is viewed - could it have worked given the right leader/s ?


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    #5
    Morlar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,273 ✭✭✭Morlar


    conor2007 wrote: »
    okay

    do people believe it could work - or now given the way it is viewed - could it have worked given the right leader/s ?

    If you are ok with totalitarianism

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Totalitarianism

    and believe in the eternal and fundamental good nature of your superiors who are 'in charge' then its probably for you.


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    #6
    conor2007
    Closed Accounts Posts: 636 ✭✭✭conor2007


    ahahaha

    right so capitalism is better ?
    who is in control there?

    i didnt say it had to be communism in that aspect or in the aspect that the video showed

    it doesnt need a ''dictator'' - hence the russians screwing it up - which is what happened effectively


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    #7
    Lux23
    Registered Users Posts: 7,134 ✭✭✭Lux23


    I think its all a matter of personal freedom and choice. With capitalism it is possible to opt out and live a different sort of life, there will always be a need for some money to be made from somewhere but you still have a choice.

    But with communism everyone had to follow the same drudgery and one couldn't just decide they wanted to be a capitalist and make as much money as they possibly could. Its not compatable with the human condition not to want to strive for more than those around you.


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    #8
    AckwelFoley
    Registered Users Posts: 12,556 ✭✭✭✭AckwelFoley


    Capitalism nor commuinism work..

    Extreme left or right leave a country in a mess.

    Left of, or right of centre is what has been proven to work


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    #9
    conor2007
    Closed Accounts Posts: 636 ✭✭✭conor2007


    like in ireland? england ? america ? france ?

    that doesnt seem to work either


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    #10
    AckwelFoley
    Registered Users Posts: 12,556 ✭✭✭✭AckwelFoley


    conor2007 wrote: »
    like in ireland? england ? america ? france ?

    that doesnt seem to work either

    huh?

    where works then if our system is a failure, give me one sucessful model where the citizes are not opressed and have a decent standard of living..

    Show me.. please


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    #11
    conor2007
    Closed Accounts Posts: 636 ✭✭✭conor2007


    there would be plenty of examples if half the countries in the world were ****ed up by capitalists

    sin é as they say - thats life as we know it

    doesnt have to be liek it is tho


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    #12
    AckwelFoley
    Registered Users Posts: 12,556 ✭✭✭✭AckwelFoley


    Ireland is not a capitalist country, nor are we communits..

    We hace a centerist government, where free enterprise supports the goiovernment coffers..

    I want you or anyone, to point out to me one country in the world that has a better system than having a left or rigt of centre government.

    Extreme systems dont work


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    #13
    Morlar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,273 ✭✭✭Morlar


    Ireland is a capitalist country- sorry dude. Capitalism is not extremist, fascism and communism are extremist ideloogies based on far left and far right - capitalism is not an extremist ideology.


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    #14
    boneless
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,487 ✭✭✭boneless


    Morlar wrote: »
    Ireland is a capitalist country- sorry dude. Capitalism is not extremist, fascism and communism are extremist ideloogies based on far left and far right - capitalism is not an extremist ideology.

    Capitalism is the epitomy of economic freedom. That's why it works. It is also why we have under-devoloped nations and people working for slave wages in these countries. As long as the richer nations are willing to consume goods produced in these circumstances without question, capitalism will grow and grow. It is only when our nation starts to be hit by these economic practices, eg. the moving of jobs to countries where wages are lower or the health and safety laws are lax, that we give out. However, how many people here still buy Nikes or other logo and brand driven goods, even though they know how and where they are made?


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    #15
    conor2007
    Closed Accounts Posts: 636 ✭✭✭conor2007


    freedom for white people - is that what you mean?


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    #16
    Morlar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,273 ✭✭✭Morlar


    conor2007 wrote: »
    freedom for white people - is that what you mean?

    I think he means economic freedom for people with money.


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    #17
    conor2007
    Closed Accounts Posts: 636 ✭✭✭conor2007


    white people with money

    africans had money
    asians had money
    etc etc

    white europeans coined the term and made capitalism


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    #18
    AckwelFoley
    Registered Users Posts: 12,556 ✭✭✭✭AckwelFoley


    Morlar wrote: »
    Ireland is a capitalist country- sorry dude. Capitalism is not extremist, fascism and communism are extremist ideloogies based on far left and far right - capitalism is not an extremist ideology.

    You are correct. ;)

    Captialism seems however to get slated by the left as a right wing only tool.

    Im far far from right wing, but Capitalism creates the wealth of a nation. Its a simple fact. How its managed is a different thing. Too high of taxation kills individuals incentive, too low taxation leaves a nation lacking in funds to run a country


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    #19
    brianthebard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,165 ✭✭✭✭brianthebard


    Lux23 wrote: »

    But with communism everyone had to follow the same drudgery and one couldn't just decide they wanted to be a capitalist and make as much money as they possibly could. Its not compatable with the human condition not to want to strive for more than those around you.

    What happened in the USSR, or indeed China or Cuba, is not communism, it is rule by dictator with wages controlled by the government. Thats about the height of it. Communism is not about forcing people to "follow the same drudgery". Communism is about just that-communities actively participating in the governing of themselves, working together and sharing equally in the gains.


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    #20
    conor2007
    Closed Accounts Posts: 636 ✭✭✭conor2007


    communist has not been done as it was meant

    freedom of thought is allowed
    no dictator

    no poor .. . .


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    #21
    Morlar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,273 ✭✭✭Morlar


    brianthebard wrote: »
    What happened in the USSR, or indeed China or Cuba, is not communism,

    Thats just a ridiculous thing to say.


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    #22
    AckwelFoley
    Registered Users Posts: 12,556 ✭✭✭✭AckwelFoley


    Who creates the wealth in communism?

    What extra rewards are there for those who have better minds or those that work harder?


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    #23
    conor2007
    Closed Accounts Posts: 636 ✭✭✭conor2007


    the satisfaction that they didnt kill someone to get a bigger house or car


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    #24
    brianthebard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,165 ✭✭✭✭brianthebard


    Morlar wrote: »
    Thats just a ridiculous thing to say.

    Not if you actually know what communism is about or have read some Marx.:rolleyes:

    Edit: Even the names of the states I listed aren't communist by their own admission, it is those in the west who see communism as a threat that label them as such.


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    #25
    conor2007
    Closed Accounts Posts: 636 ✭✭✭conor2007


    true

    communism was warped - people have a view on it - not an accurate view of it


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    #26
    Morlar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,273 ✭✭✭Morlar


    brianthebard wrote: »
    Not if you actually know what communism is about or have read some Marx.:rolleyes :

    I do know a thing or two about communism and have read marx. Ta muchly. That is still a completely ridiculous thing to say.


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    #27
    conor2007
    Closed Accounts Posts: 636 ✭✭✭conor2007


    how is it?


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    #28
    Zulu
    Registered Users Posts: 10,965 ✭✭✭✭Zulu


    How do I quench my greed?

    The fact is, people are greedy. People what something better. Be it a bigger house, a faster car, a more beautiful partner. It's human nature. It's a basic urge. An individual may suppress it, but a state can't.


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    #29
    conor2007
    Closed Accounts Posts: 636 ✭✭✭conor2007


    it doesnt have to be done my opressing other people (whole races/countries)


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    #30
    AckwelFoley
    Registered Users Posts: 12,556 ✭✭✭✭AckwelFoley


    Zulu wrote: »
    How do I quench my greed?

    The fact is, people are greedy. People what something better. Be it a bigger house, a faster car, a more beautiful partner. It's human nature. It's a basic urge. An individual may suppress it, but a state can't.

    This is the smartest thing said in this thread so far.

    Communism sounds great, however it kills people will to progress and work harder as there is no reward for extra effort, if there were, then all would not be equal.

    People deserve to reap the rewards of their work. More you work better you do.

    Communism in its ideal is made with the best intentions, but its fundamently flawed, and never works


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    #31
    Rossibaby
    Closed Accounts Posts: 421 ✭✭Rossibaby


    you say that irelands capitalist nature works?? are you aware of the figures of child poverty north and south of the border in ireland? roughly 10% live in conditions of poverty.that doesnt matter though while some business owner of a super chain store doesnt work and hasnt worked for years flies around in private helicopters. communism can work,and socialism is a step towards that.cuba is not a communist state but a socialist one.it has better health care than america??what socialism has brought to that country is amazing.now compare that to other latin american countries and the state they're in


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