Best Poker Player Ever!!

denashpot

Just a tread to discuss who people think is the best poker player ever and who they think will be the best in the future. any player from past, present, tournies or live play, your choice, your opinion.

denashpot

My vote would for best player ever would have to be Doyle Brunson. Done it all in both tournie and cash games!!

ditpoker

allen cunningham... cos he is the best player ever? pretty solid reason....

edit: or if you ask him, its probably lloyd...

Matt Santos

Cant argue with the stats that Phil Helmuth can produce..
Thinks he is the best and he probably is.

I think that Negreanu is as good but until he holds double digit bracelets........

Shadowless

Stu Ungar.
[/End Thread]

pokerkingsni

Chip Reese has to get a mention.

El Stuntman

The Kid, obviously

bohsman

Ill agree with Jeff, lloyd it is.

stevire

ditpoker wrote: »

allen cunningham... cos he is the best player ever? pretty solid reason....

+1.

Also, Ivey has a great track record and nice to see him back on Poker After Dark. Although im sure he's an obivous choice for many...

CaptainNemo

Stu Ungar I don't know about. I can't remember who said it but a quote about him went something like "If Stuey ever got top pair beat in the WSOP we would never have heard of him" - another one goes something "You never heard of Stuey making a great laydown". I believe he had a reputation as a cash game fish because he played too many hands and called too much. I'm not sure why the consensus is that he was the best other than that most poker players are impressed with stories of extreme gambling and drug degeneracy...

For me the consistently best player I've seen in action so far has been Doyle Brunson but there are way too many of the big names who I haven't seen play at all so my mind is very much open on the subject. Barry Greenstein looks very very good to me too. Patrik Antonius also seems to be awesome but I haven't watched too much of his play other than on HSP.

Only Aces

Has to be Phil Helmuth

Hawk Eye

Sly

30something

What about that Vietnamese fella?

zuutroy

Jamie gold won against the biggest field ever...ergo best player ever ldo.

sickpuppy

Dennis Winters

jayhawk

Stuey
Johnny
Doyle
Chip
Phil
Barry

meathman 007

phil gordon obviously

denashpot

CaptainNemo wrote: »

Stu Ungar I don't know about. I can't remember who said it but a quote about him went something like "If Stuey ever got top pair beat in the WSOP we would never have heard of him" - another one goes something "You never heard of Stuey making a great laydown". I believe he had a reputation as a cash game fish because he played too many hands and called too much. I'm not sure why the consensus is that he was the best other than that most poker players are impressed with stories of extreme gambling and drug degeneracy...

For me the consistently best player I've seen in action so far has been Doyle Brunson but there are way too many of the big names who I haven't seen play at all so my mind is very much open on the subject. Barry Greenstein looks very very good to me too. Patrik Antonius also seems to be awesome but I haven't watched too much of his play other than on HSP.

1 of the reasons people choose him as the best and that includes top pros is because he has 3 MAIN event wins!! if he wasnt hooked on drugs, sports betting and women just imagine wot he could of done!! winning 1 main event on luck might be possible (just ask the muppet jamie gold and yang) but 3 main evens????

denashpot

phil gordan and Dennis Winters:eek::eek:?? lol

Sconsey

CaptainNemo wrote: »

"If Stuey ever got top pair beat in the WSOP we would never have heard of him"

That kind of implies he never got top pair beat, he knew when he was ahead => he got a good read on players.

CaptainNemo wrote: »

I believe he had a reputation as a cash game fish because he played too many hands and called too much. I'm not sure why the consensus is that he was the best other than that most poker players are impressed with stories of extreme gambling and drug degeneracy...

I doubt anyone is impressed by Stu's drug habbit, I vote Stu because he had a rep for being great at reading players, he was a brilliant head's up player, he was supremly confident in his abilities, he won the main event three times, the list goes on....

denashpot

30something wrote: »

What about that Vietnamese fella?

Scotty Nguyen??

jbravado

Mick the lip.

Obv.

denashpot

wot do ye think of Dan Harrington??? has a great record at the wsop.

Heisenberg.

This post has been deleted.

eddiehead

I'd have to go for helmuth, you cant argue with results(in NLH anyway)

But from what Ive ever heard of ungar, i have no doubt he could have been the best.....operative term being 'could have'. Having said that, he still has a better track record than most pros still around today, 3 WSOP ME's

5starpool

denashpot wrote: »

1 of the reasons people choose him as the best and that includes top pros is because he has 3 MAIN event wins!! if he wasnt hooked on drugs, sports betting and women just imagine wot he could of done!! winning 1 main event on luck might be possible (just ask the muppet jamie gold and yang) but 3 main evens????

While 3 main Event wins is mightily impressive, the fact that those wins were against tiny fields (the last one had a few hundred in it, the first less than 100 I think?) means it is impossible to correctly compare him against some of the top tournie pros of today, never mind the cash game specialists. By all accounts he was a brilliant player, and I am not saying otherwise as I have not seen any of his play except an old recording of his last win (the outdoors farce one).

It is extremely hard to compare, just as it is to say how the likes of John Giles, Norman Hunter, George Best etc would have fared in the modern world of football.

Also, poker is not just Holdem, therefore the likes of Brunson and Chip Reese who have consistently cleaned up in a variety of formats of the game over the decades would get my vote if there were one.

denashpot

Johnny Chan would be up there as well.

eddiehead

5starpool wrote: »

Also, poker is not just Holdem, therefore the likes of Brunson and Chip Reese who have consistently cleaned up in a variety of formats of the game over the decades would get my vote if there were one.

This is true, its something people often forget when this question comes up, hellmuth is clearly the most successful NLH tourney player ever, but that doesnt necessarily make him the best player.

By most accounts Chip reeses was probably the best allrounder ever, despite the fact that there's a lot of people who have only watched him play once or twice.

There probably isnt a definitive answer, it kinda depends on what your after IMO

nicnicnic

Ungar played 32 €10,000 buyin events in his life and won 12 of them. But was he the best ever, who knows? its like saying Elvis was the best singer ever

TheGap

Sconsey wrote: »

I vote Stu because he had a rep for being great at reading players, he was a brilliant head's up player, he was supremly confident in his abilities, he won the main event three times, the list goes on....

I agree...in addition table respect, the fear that he put in people stemming from his confidence.

Back in the days of smaller tourneys there wasnt as much information available to people. People had to rely on natural card ability to win as opposed to today where there is a lot of info available via books and the net.

ollyk1

Poker is about money. Richest poker player I've seen playing is Guy le Liberte so he must be the best..... :rolleyes:

Edit: Scratch that Bill Gates plays a $3/$6 game nlh game in Vegas I believe.

mocata

Could the mountains of rokey-cokey possibly have had something to do with Ungar's Legendary Confidence at a Table?

RoundTower

obv the only way to settle this is with a vote

i nominate Flipper Walsh.

Flushdraw

RoundTower wrote: »

obv the only way to settle this is with a vote

i nominate Flipper Walsh.

You mean a poll? Havent had one of them in a while, it would be fun

Captain Tom

i won a donkament once so me. also, i called a guy down with ace high yesterday and it was good.

/thread

cooker3

I love how people are basing this on wsop results.

I think Phil Hellmuths greatest achievement in poker is making people think that the number of bracelets is some sort of representation of how good you are.

Oh for me it's Barry Greenstein

a147pro

denashpot wrote: »

1 of the reasons people choose him as the best and that includes top pros is because he has 3 MAIN event wins!! if he wasnt hooked on drugs, sports betting and women just imagine wot he could of done!! winning 1 main event on luck might be possible (just ask the muppet jamie gold and yang) but 3 main evens????

I'm pretty sure that he sucked out with lesser aces in two of the final hands (one against Doyle and one where the final table was outside?), notwithstanding the myth that he called his opponents hands in two of those wins (he definitely did not do this as I've watched the other victory too). People also go on about the legend call of a $50,000 with 8 high when he correctly put the other guy on a busted straight draw, but I wonder how many times he made such calls and was wrong.

Doubtless he was an outstanding player but I wonder how much his legend benefits from our love of people who burn out rather than fade away.

ollyk1

cooker3 wrote: »

Oh for me it's Barry Greenstein

I've been a fan of Greenstein for a long time but my problem with him more recently is that I'm beginning to suspect that he is a bankroll master who focuses on crushing idiots and breaks even against really good players. This is probably the best + EV way to make it as a pro but it doesn't necessarily make him the all time best player. It does make him wealthy and the guy doesn't need a truck to carry his ego around ( I believe his flashy sports car suffices ).

What I love about his style is that "he gets it quietly".

Conbro

Stu Ungar I don't know about. I can't remember who said it but a quote about him went something like "If Stuey ever got top pair beat in the WSOP we would never have heard of him" - another one goes something "You never heard of Stuey making a great laydown". I believe he had a reputation as a cash game fish because he played too many hands and called too much. I'm not sure why the consensus is that he was the best other than that most poker players are impressed with stories of extreme gambling and drug degeneracy...

lol

Captain Tom

i really dont get why people are so quick to call Ungar one of the best ever. he had a great record (albeit from a tiny sample) but there is very limited footage of him playing so basically all people go by is hearsay from the old timers who are mostly useless themselves.

nicnicnic

Captain Tom wrote: »

i really dont get why people are so quick to call Ungar one of the best ever. he had a great record (albeit from a tiny sample) but there is very limited footage of him playing so basically all people go by is hearsay from the old timers who are mostly useless themselves.

well its generally accepted that by his early 20s he was the best gin player in the world and we dont have any footage of that. the fact that no one in the world would play him was testament enough. I think the fact that he won the only other big event of the 80s (not sure but think it was the amerillo slims 3 queens tournament 10k buy in) 3 times as well makes him the best of his generation then to come back and win the ME over a decade later after taking 20% of Colombia's exports in the intervening years has to mark him down as the all time ledgend

denashpot

ollyk1 wrote: »

Poker is about money. Richest poker player I've seen playing is Guy le Liberte so he must be the best..... :rolleyes:

Edit: Scratch that Bill Gates plays a $3/$6 game nlh game in Vegas I believe.

stupid comment mate

looserock

Didn't Unger have some sort of super brain, genius iq, photographic memory, sort of rain man on drugs type thing.

Would that be like having built in poker tracker with pokerstove etc ???

nicnicnic

denashpot wrote: »

stupid comment mate

get a sarcometre

denashpot

nicnicnic wrote: »

get a sarcometre

lol

a147pro

I wanted Mick the Lip, for obvious reasons, but Jbravo beat me to the gag.

Otherwise its hard to say unless you've watched them play a lot of hands, and I haven't.

Hard not to say Doyle cos-

- he's been at it so long
- he played and made a living from the game when it was illegal and you had to be a road gambler, a time in which he saw lads he was playing with getting their heads blown off in front of him, but he stuck at it and came through
- he's record of wins speaks for itself
- more than anyone else he can be said, through super system, to have set the agenda for modern poker theory and the endless debates on these pages and beyond
- he's still playing, and beating the biggest games in the world and has been doing so for 40 odd years.

Prior to the last WSOP he predicted that, whereas the final table of the main event would be largely unknown, everyone at the final table of the $50k Horse tournament would be a big name player. Lo and behold, it gets down to the final table and sure enough, they all were and he was leading the field. Granted, only big name players and a few big name wannabes would have the bankroll to make up the field but there were 250 entrants and many unknowns or those less well known than the final table. This prediction and his own fulfillment of it shows his closeness to the heart of the game at its highest level, in terms of stakes and skill.

Having said that he got it in for half a million bucks in a recent HSP game with A10 on an ace high board, against Gee of Cirque du Soleil fame, who is usually as tight as the proverbial. This was either a brilliant read or, as he put it himself, impatience at being card dead for eight hours.

And there are prob other players out there making savage call / folds / moves, which must be the mark of a great player, on a regular basis but staying below the radar.

Mr.Plough

brandi hawbaker

denashpot

Mr.Plough wrote: »

brandi hawbaker

who the hell is that????:rolleyes:

Hitman Actual

nicnicnic wrote: »

Ungar played 32 €10,000 buyin events in his life and won 12 of them. But was he the best ever, who knows? its like saying Elvis was the best singer ever

Completely off-topic, but wasn't Elvis a relatively poor singer?

Hitman Actual

denashpot wrote: »

who the hell is that????:rolleyes:

You've never heard of Brandi? A legend of the modern game.

BobSloane

lenny_leonard wrote: »

Completely off-topic, but wasn't Elvis a relatively poor singer?

no man. he was the fvcking king!