Do I need planning permission?

Stevie Dakota

I want to put up a canopy over the front door as the rain hits it pretty hard. The kind of thing that would extend a meter or so and be tiled, and be supported by two wooden pillars, pretty simple. Is this something that would require a planning application?

Based in Wicklow.

Cheers.

muffler

Yes and no. Thats confusing I know but it depends on location of house and the local planners interpretation of the exemption for porches to front of house.

This will give you an idea but its one rule if you are in a town (street) and another if you are in a rural or suburban area. Technically your proposal is not a porch and you are altering the external appearance of your house so in that regard you would need permission.

Best advice i can give is for you to phone your local planning office and ask to speak to the planner for your area.

Stevie Dakota

Good advice, cheers.

alinoee

you dont. subject to No. 8. of Muffler's link and put no.2 support posts to support it's front - you have a porch and off you go. it usually will look better with posts.

smashey

alinoee wrote: »

you dont. subject to No. 8. of Muffler's link and put no.2 support posts to support it's front - you have a porch and off you go. it usually will look better with posts.

What if the OP lives in a terraced house on a street?

alinoee

than it does not comply with no.8.

smashey wrote: »

What if the OP lives in a terraced house on a street?

smashey

So when you said the OP didn't need permission, you knew that his house wasn't located on a street?

alinoee

its going nowhere. please read the leaflet. 2 m from public footpath or street. if originally SD would rephrased canopy and used - i want to build an open porch -Muffler's answer would be the last one. if you wish to have further conversation pm me and we can talk, but its pointless to do so here.

responce

smashey wrote: »

So when you said the OP didn't need permission, you knew that his house wasn't located on a street?

smashey

alinoee wrote: »

its going nowhere. please read the leaflet. 2 m from public footpath or street. if originally SD would rephrased canopy and used - i want to build an open porch -Muffler's answer would be the last one. if you wish to have further conversation pm me and we can talk, but its pointless to do so here.

responce

I actually think you're serious. There will be no pms.

Muffler replied and then you came along and stated that the OP did not need permission. I was pointing out a possibility.

alinoee

last time. subject to no.8 (leaflet) and off you go.

smashey wrote: »

I actually think you're serious. There will be no pms.

Muffler replied and then you came along and stated that the OP did not need permission. I was pointing out a possibility.

smashey

No. 8...

8. Can I build a front porch?
You can build a porch without planning permission, as long
as it does not exceed 2 square metres in area and is more
than 2 metres from any public road or footpath. Where
the porch has a tiled or slated pitched roof, it must not
exceed 4 metres in height, or 3 metres for any other roof
type. A front porch within these limits is the only type of
development allowed to extend beyond the front wall of
the building (the building line) and still remain exempted.

How did you know the OP's house complied with the requirements here that makes the development exempt? Simple question really and when you answer it, off you go.

muffler

Just to add that technically a porch is an enclosed structure and putting up 2 supports for an apex or lean to roof does not classify it as a porch.

Its not good practice to be making assumptions as to what type of house the OP has or where it is located and therefore to state that he/she did not require planning permission is at best presumptuous but in any event its a poor comment.

alinoee

1st of all - no assumpstions - you have to comply with ... subject to etc.
2nd what you would call this
http://www.sip.ie/sip019G/images/porchbb.jpg
http://www.suffolkchurches.co.uk/elmsett%20porch.jpg
http://www.helmeandhallett.co.uk/hh-images/porch.jpg

the thing is now that its totally out of topic now. what is the point?

muffler wrote: »

Just to add that technically a porch is an enclosed structure and putting up 2 supports for an apex or lean to roof does not classify it as a porch.

Its not good practice to be making assumptions as to what type of house the OP has or where it is located and therefore to state that he/she did not require planning permission is at best presumptuous but in any event its a poor comment.

smashey

In order for you to tell the OP he didn't need permission, you had to make assumptions.

As for those links, I can't see the relevance as they are in the UK. In case you haven't noticed, we're in a different jurisdiction.

AckwelFoley

In any event, i would advise the OP to pick up the phone and call their local planning department for clarification, upon receiving this clarification request them to direct you to the relevant directive in their Planning laws so that you have written proof of the exemption.

alinoee

: )
finally good advice but they will give you anything on paper unless you pay them.

snyper wrote: »

In any event, i would advise the OP to pick up the phone and call their local planning department for clarification, upon receiving this clarification request them to direct you to the relevant directive in their Planning laws so that you have written proof of the exemption.

Mellor

alinoee wrote: »

2nd what you would call this
http://www.sip.ie/sip019G/images/porchbb.jpg
http://www.suffolkchurches.co.uk/elmsett%20porch.jpg
http://www.helmeandhallett.co.uk/hh-images/porch.jpg

I call the first two porches as they are enclosed by walls from the look of them, the last is a canopy.

To the OP, as snyper said contact the council. Strictly speaking you would need planning, as its a canopy and not a porch. BUT considering that a porch contains a canopy element the council might be happy enough to let it pass.

alinoee

well, hopefully this is closure. OP - its up to you to decide whats porch and whats not as the planning act or reg do not define it. by the end of the day the worst case scenario is that they gonna ask you to take it down or apply for retention to keep it. its up to you.

alinoee

by the way. don't call it canopy when speaking to council people. say porch and describe what you want to construct. hopefully will help.

godtabh

alinoee wrote: »

: )
finally good advice but they will give you anything on paper unless you pay them.

You dont pay the council if your looking for advice like this.

alinoee

you do if you want to have it on the paper.

kearnsr wrote: »

You dont pay the council if your looking for advice like this.

godtabh

alinoee wrote: »

you do if you want to have it on the paper.

No you dont.

alinoee

apologies. you dont.

kearnsr wrote: »

No you dont.

AckwelFoley

alinoee wrote: »

: )
finally good advice but they will give you anything on paper unless you pay them.

Yes and no. There is a planning pack that is available, that comes with the planning application form, its only a few yellow photocopied sheets. This is free, and if you are told you dont require permission, its a link to the rule in that papr you need. It may not be yellow but it comes with the planning application form. Look for the full planning permission forms and the attached documentation.

Some more Info here

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/housing/planning-permission/planning_permission_general

smashey

alinoee, chill.

I have a letter in front of me here from a planning office containing advice on something I asked them in writing before Christmas. Guess what? I didn't pay for it.

And by the way, sending unsolicited pms is against boards rules.

alinoee

what i meant is not an advise from LA or it's decision but blubling what is a porch and what is not as a response to SD on his/her question.
now its wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyoff and i would suggest to open new thread.

alinoee

sorry about that i did not know rules
whats is the letter about?
can we move to different thread?

smashey wrote: »

alinoee, chill.

I have a letter in front of me here from a planning office containing advice on something I asked them in writing before Christmas. Guess what? I didn't pay for it.

And by the way, sending unsolicited pms is against boards rules.

smashey

alinoee wrote: »

what i meant is not an advise from LA or it's decision but blubling what is a porch and what is not as a response to SD on his/her question.
now its wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyoff and i would suggest to open new thread.

Leave the modding to us please.

alinoee wrote: »

sorry about that i did not know rules
whats is the letter about?
can we move to different thread?

Apology accepted and the contents of the letter are between me, my client and the planning office.

Stevie Dakota

Wow, sorry this has all got so heated.

The type of house is a detached bungalow on 1/3 acre. The house is set back from the road by 12 meters.

Another option was this...

http://www.timothymilescarpentry.co.uk/pics/porch/1.s.jpg

alinoee

please
whats porch whats not
move it to there

smashey wrote: »

Leave the modding to us please.


Apology accepted and the contents of the letter are between me, my client and the planning office.

alinoee

no probs : ) you exempt. as long as you keep leaflet that muffler posted as guidance. and sorry for the rest : )

Stevie Dakota wrote: »

Wow, sorry this has all got so heated.

The type of house is a detached bungalow on 1/3 acre. The house is set back from the road by 12 meters.

Another option was this...

http://www.timothymilescarpentry.co.uk/pics/porch/1.s.jpg

godtabh

alinoee out of interest what background do you have in the planning process? It seems that while you may have good intentions the advice is just wide of the mark.

I was just wondering have you confused a planning consultant with local authority planners?

muffler

alinoee wrote: »

no probs : ) you exempt. as long as you keep leaflet that muffler posted as guidance. and sorry for the rest : )

Quit while you're behind.

And as smashey said leave the modding to us.

alinoee

Stevie
you have moderators who knows everything and people dont. its like talking to the council : ) they know better! its up to you and good luck.

Stevie Dakota wrote: »

I want to put up a canopy over the front door as the rain hits it pretty hard. The kind of thing that would extend a meter or so and be tiled, and be supported by two wooden pillars, pretty simple. Is this something that would require a planning application?

Based in Wicklow.

Cheers.

AckwelFoley

Is it time for the lolcats yet?



Anyway to reiterate, i can say you dont need planning and i would be confident you dont after hearing the site and house detail,

However regardless, it is your responsibility to check with the relevant local authority, as each authority has a different criteria in their local development plan and detail

alinoee

but the regulations are this same aren't they?

However regardless, it is your responsibility to check with the relevant local authority, as each authority has a different criteria in their local development plan and detail[/QUOTE]

godtabh

alinoee wrote: »

Stevie
you have moderators who knows everything and people dont. its like talking to the council : ) they know better! its up to you and good luck.

It would appear that you certainly dont know everything when it comes to planning.

As has before check with the planners if you want but at the end of the day you have to make the decision.

Mellor

alinoee wrote: »

but the regulations are this same aren't they?

No they are not.
A canopy and a porch are different.
OP, You need planning permission

SDCC wrote:

Do I need planning permission to make changes to the front of my house?
Planning permission is required for all extensions proposed to the front of a house (except for small porch structures outlined below). This includes structures such as a canopy or bay windows proposed along the front wall, or other changes that will affect the character of the building. Permission is not required for small porches where the following applies; - Any porch cannot be located less than 2 metres from any road. - The floor area the porch must not exceed 2 square metres. - The height of any porch shall not exceed, in the case of a porch with a tiled or slated pitched roof, 4 metres or, in any other case, 3 metres

From here, http://planning.southdublin.ie/index.php?option=com_simplefaq&task=display&Itemid=&catid=174

alinoee

no i dont. but thats the alternative opinion.
i'm sure you have all answers to planning and building regs : )

kearnsr wrote: »

It would appear that you certainly dont know everything when it comes to planning.

As has before check with the planners if you want but at the end of the day you have to make the decision.

Mellor

Mellor wrote: »

No they are not.
A canopy and a porch are different.
OP, You need planning permission


From here, http://planning.southdublin.ie/index.php?option=com_simplefaq&task=display&Itemid=&catid=174

Of course, speak to the CoCo, they may allow it go go through as it is set back from the road on a rural site. But strictly speaking PP is required.

alinoee

its depends what planning dpt/court will call a porch not you.
i have dealt with with letterkeny, dublin dun loaghaire, fingal, leitrim, kerry and couple more.
for some reason they had a different interpretation than you do . but thats it. it is pointless. no more conversation. have a nice evening

Mellor wrote: »

No they are not.
A canopy and a porch are different.
OP, You need planning permission


From here, http://planning.southdublin.ie/index.php?option=com_simplefaq&task=display&Itemid=&catid=174

AckwelFoley

I dont know why, but the word spanner springs to mind, coupled with the verb "to be" would aptly describe the subject that will not cease with their pedantic crusade.

godtabh

alinoee wrote: »

its depends what planning dpt/court will call a porch not you.
i have dealt with with letterkeny, dublin dun loaghaire, fingal, leitrim, kerry and couple more.
for some reason they had a different interpretation than you do . but thats it. it is pointless. no more conversation. have a nice evening

If you have worked with the planners here how how much have you piad them for their advice?

sinnerboy

what if I wanted a Porsche ?



............PS , OP , you need permission IMO

Ice_Box

As a matter of interest. When the canopy is constructed does this become the new boundry of the house?

For example look at this picture



Would it be OK to construct a porch the full width of the canopy as technically its inside the boundry of your house even though the porch is well over the 2square metre limit?

Or would it be ok to swap the location of the front door and the window?

I would guess that a change such as this would effect the "character of the building" as outlined in the rules.

What do you guys think?

muffler

Ice_Box you would need permission for the proposal as it basically changes the external appearance of the house.

sydthebeat

Ice_Box wrote: »

As a matter of interest.

(1) When the canopy is constructed does this become the new boundry of the house?

(2) Would it be OK to construct a porch the full width of the canopy as technically its inside the boundry of your house even though the porch is well over the 2square metre limit?

(3) Or would it be ok to swap the location of the front door and the window?

I would guess that a change such as this would effect the "character of the building" as outlined in the rules.

What do you guys think?

only my opinion but....
1. No
2. No
3. No

Mellor

sydthebeat wrote: »

only my opinion but....
1. No
2. No
3. No

I agree with syd, solid no on all accounts.

What ever about a canopy under 2 m.sq, (not exempt but CoCos could likely allow it). But one over this is no way allowed. Not sure what you mean about a "new boundary". This is no reason for exemption, and even so, the canopy is outside it imo.

Ice_Box

Just as I thought. Thanks all.

sinnerboy

sydthebeat wrote: »

only my opinion but....
1. No
2. No
3. No

agree
agree
agrre