adding waste oil to home heating oil

Lex Luthor

what do people think of the idea of adding my waste 5litres of oil from my car to a full tank of kerosene (1000litres) and burn it off rather than having to take it to a recycling centre which is miles away?

its a 0.5% dilution so would it make a big difference or cause any problems?

10-10-20

A friend of mine does this, adding 20l per tank-full. He keeps an eye on the exhaust from the boiler and tweaks it as required.
Another friend of a friend runs on nothing but used motor oil. He primes the system with normal home heating oil and then switches over to his copious tank of motor oil. He's a garage mechanic!

JamesM

Nobody in the business would recomend it. Kerosene is a very pure oil - you don't use a flue on the exhaust, just a vent. It probably would not make much difference to a burner using gas oil. Do you really want to pour that black dirty oil into your clean kerosene tank. You will probably get it settling as sludge in the bottom of the tank. You would need to keep an eye on the filter. It would also effect a warranty - certainly on a condensing boiler.
Just my thoughts,
Jim.

Lex Luthor

The main problem would be the sludge settling at the bottom and it building up over time the more times I pour the waste oil in...just wanted to hear some thoughts

garyh3

Hi Lex is it not possible to filter a few times the oil to try and get some of the sludge out.

I suppose it would have to be a fine filter

Garyh3

Sandraf

Why on earth would you consider doing that ??

Just because the dump is miles away ???

Use your car and drive to the dump!!

Cmar-Ireland

I have seen waste oil burners used as space heaters in lots of garages. I'm sure one could be adapted for use for a domestic home heating system. I think they use a compressed air supply to atomise the waste oil before burning.

Lex Luthor

Sandraf wrote: »

Why on earth would you consider doing that ??

Just because the dump is miles away ???

Use your car and drive to the dump!!

I wonder what has more impact on the environment...me throwing the oil in my bin or driving 30mile round trip to dispose of it properly???

newmug

Well Lex. Did you do it? How did things work out?

mathepac

Waste lubricating oil, especially from diesels, is carcinogenic. Waste oil burners are specifically designed to use this oil safely as a fuel, domestic burners are not.

I was about to post about the carcinogens from the burning but mathepac beat me to it.

Basically, if you are doing this, you go the whole hog and burn only used oil, but you need specialist equipment to do it.

Doing this with your regular burner, you are spouting dangerously toxic smoke into the atmosphere from the location where you and your kids sleep at night. Basically, a monumentally stupid & dangerous thing to do

heinbloed

It is illegal to burn waste oil. In the entire European Union.

It was never legal since the EU was founded.



To burn waste of whatever orign a permit is necessary.

Only fuels traded as such are legal fuels. Ask the tax authorities as well.

@Cmar-Ireland:

You wrote:

I have seen waste oil burners used as space heaters in lots of garages.

It is your duty as a citicen of this state to report criminal activities.

Buford T Justice

heinbloed wrote: »

It is illegal to burn waste oil. In the entire European Union.

It was never legal since the EU was founded.



To burn waste of whatever orign a permit is necessary.

Only fuels traded as such are legal fuels. Ask the tax authorities as well.

@Cmar-Ireland:

You wrote:

It is your duty as a citicen of this state to report criminal activities.

Yeah, but he could also mind his own business and get on with other things instead.

argosy2006

At what point does it become waste though?
in car expensive engine oil, drain from car 1 min later waste?!!! , Put back in can expensive engine oil,.........
BS!
Not a waste until its disposed of in my book!!

Merch

there was thread about this recently, guy had his oil burner wrecked by tenant putting waste engine oil in the kerosene tank.
Is it your burner OP? how old/new, I'd prepare for a few bills, the saving you think you are making will be lost in the maintenance alone, just dispose of your oil properly, its a few litres, if your car is so inefficient that you think it is more environmentally friendly to not drive to a waste oil depot and burn it or throw it in your bin, you need to look up the consequences not disposing of waste in the best way possible, ie carcinogens your family and nearest neighbours might be exposed to as they are nearest the source of the combustion.
Incomplete burning of the oil is going to release chemicals and carcinogens, it wasn't designed to burn in an oil burner.

Save yourself the hassle and money filtering it and fixing your burner after it claps and drive it to the place or store it temporarily until you have a journey that way and drop it off in passing.

newmug

heinbloed wrote: »

It is illegal to burn waste oil. In the entire European Union.

To burn waste of whatever orign a permit is necessary.

Even in a waste oil burner?

PeteHeat

newmug wrote: »

Even in a waste oil burner?

Yes, there are no legal waste oil burners, it is not against the law to sell the equipment using it where the problems start.

We don't know whats in the oil and many garages mix all the oils they take out of cars / vans etc so you could have engine, gearbox, and hydraulic oils mixed.

I did ask different goverment departments about this, the fines can be very big.

Lex,

I had a customer who did similar last year, it cost him about 900 litres of kerosene, a new tank because we couldn't be sure the tank was clean, he was using a condensing boiler almost poisoned himself and the neighbours from the fumes.

.

dathi

burning waste motor oil is illegal you all seem to have short memories , two christmas, s ago all the pork and ham had to be removed from the shelves in ireland . when one of northern cousins sold oil laced with motor oil to a pig food processor, who used it to dry pig feed, contaminating it with pcp,s have heard that the epa has started checking garages to see where there waste oil is going. so good luck to any one with a waste motor oil burner enjoy your fines

Merch

dathi wrote: »

burning waste motor oil is illegal you all seem to have short memories , two christmas, s ago all the pork and ham had to be removed from the shelves in ireland . when one of northern cousins sold oil laced with motor oil to a pig food processor, who used it to dry pig feed, contaminating it with pcp,s have heard that the epa has started checking garages to see where there waste oil is going. so good luck to any one with a waste motor oil burner enjoy your fines

While that northern cousin should have likely disposed of it to a licensed organisation, in fairness the buyer was doing things on the cheap too, they knew well they were not just buying oil, but i believe it was waste transformer cooling oil?? he was involved in food production, cant say im fully aware of the requirements, but I have come across food grade lubricants (can be used on machines used to manufacture food)

As for the OP/person that said, knows a guy who is doing it, he's a mechanic, there is no reason to believe that guy should know whether burning waste engine oil is safe or efficient just because they are a car mechanic.

PeteHeat

Hi,

There are people selling burners for waste oil, one I know of sells the boilers as well, unfortunately their customers may not realise that burning waste oil is against the law.

As to garages the reputable ones will not even give away waste oil that they have to pay to have removed, I expect we are paying for the safe disposal / recycling of the oil and the fines are very prohibitive for the garage.

It is also an offence to be found transporting waste oil without the necessary licence.

Some people believe because they can't see any smoke from the boiler that there are no emissions of noxitious substances, that is not true in fact the standard flue gas analyser is not designed to detect or measure the dangerous products of combustion from waste oil.

.

newmug

PeteHeat wrote: »

Yes, there are no legal waste oil burners, it is not against the law to sell the equipment using it where the problems start.

Well what about waste oil heaters? I know loads of garages who have them, surely they "burn" the oil to heat the place? And the fumes are the warm air

I also know a fella who has a boat with an engine that runs on waste oil.

PeteHeat

Hi,

Don't take my word for it click here then send them an email about licencing requirements.

Page 19 of this document answers your question about garages burning waste oil.

This is the file of one company who has a licence read it to see the limitations.

Another source

Another

Waste oil on a boat I bet that would be a tough one to get a licence for?
.

Merch

newmug wrote: »

Well what about waste oil heaters? I know loads of garages who have them, surely they "burn" the oil to heat the place? And the fumes are the warm air

I also know a fella who has a boat with an engine that runs on waste oil.

Surely? why surely? hopefully not waste oil, maybe they have them and burn a legitimate fuel, kerosene?
The fumes are the product of the combined gases combusted, the warm air is a consequence of the (exothermic) reaction. The heat is transferred to the air space, objects and compounds surrounding the source of heat, by radiation,convection and conduction.

heinbloed

Thanks for the links provided, Pete Heat.

From

http://www.epa.ie/downloads/pubs/waste/wastepreventionprojectoutputs/Smart%20Garage%20Guide%202010%20small.pdf

I quote from page 19:

Never burn waste oil in a
(waste) oil burner - it is illegal
and may pose a risk to you and
your employees health.

newmug

Merch wrote: »

Surely? why surely? hopefully not waste oil, maybe they have them and burn a legitimate fuel, kerosene?
The fumes are the product of the combined gases combusted, the warm air is a consequence of the (exothermic) reaction. The heat is transferred to the air space, objects and compounds surrounding the source of heat, by radiation,convection and conduction.

I'm telling ya, one garage has a yoke about 20 foot long, waste oil goes into a tank at one end, its never seen again! Cant think of the make of it. Another garage I know has this contraption hanging off the wall blowing out hot air (ingersoll-rand?) and its fed on waste oil aswell. I sh1t you not.

Merch

newmug wrote: »

Well what about waste oil heaters? I know loads of garages who have them, surely they "burn" the oil to heat the place? And the fumes are the warm air

I also know a fella who has a boat with an engine that runs on waste oil.

newmug wrote: »

I'm telling ya, one garage has a yoke about 20 foot long, waste oil goes into a tank at one end, its never seen again! Cant think of the make of it. Another garage I know has this contraption hanging off the wall blowing out hot air (ingersoll-rand?) and its fed on waste oil aswell. I sh1t you not.

When you said "surely" followed by a question mark it made it sound like a question not a statement. If you saw it then I'm not disputing its existence, but it sounds like (if it is illegal to burn waste oil) that they are in breach of that, perhaps the fuel is not waste oil. Anyway it sounds to me like they are illegal so I'm not sure why it would be legal to sell them? as they seem to have no other purpose.

PeteHeat

Hi,

The systems exist as described, there are more available on the Irish market including small burners to suit the average household.

Just because they work does not mean they are legal or good for the environment, some people believe just because they don't see smoke coming out of the flue that all the nasties have been burned off.

When we look at a purpose built condensing oil boiler designed to burn kerosene there should be no smokey fumes, yet there are small quantities of unpleasant gasses along with excess air released back to the atmosphere.

If you read the EPA report linked above you will see the range of noxious gasses they test for at a licenced recycling centre which is highly regulated.

The reason you can buy the equipment is it can be used to to burn kerosene and home heating oil, so it is is considered similar to a car, nobody stops you from buying one what you do with it after you get it on the road is up to you and we all know there are plenty of laws broken on our roads everyday.

The fines for using such equipment to burn waste oil can be €3,000.00 and possibly jail, if you want a licence to burn it legally think around the €30,000.00 mark probably more by the time all the consultants fees are taken into account.

The message is simple, don't burn waste oil without a licence.
.

deandean

I was in a plant once (around Naas I think) that takes in waste oil from garages, cleans it and sells it as fuel. There was quite a process involved: heating, filtering, centrifuging etc to clean it up.

For the sake of what, 80 cent per litre I wouldn't even think of burning waste engine oil in a domestic environment.

Remember the lad with the animal feed farm and the contaminated feed? That was using 'cleaned' waste oil IIRC, and look what happened there! Half the pigs in the country contaminated with PCBs or summit. [edit: oops, well covered in other posts].

The local Bring centres take in waste oil for free. That's the way to get rid of it.

mickdw

Best dispose of the engine oil properly, then get some used chip shop oil, refine it and get very cheap heating oil even with tax paid.

Drip Fed

Your oil that you purchase, which is sold to you as Heating fuel oil came from waste engine oil, waste canola oil, All they have done is remove the water, filtered it and filtered again and mixed Kerosene in it to make it thinner for the central heating system. I say there is no reason why you can't do that yourself, For the last 5 years I have been heating my home in NZ with waste oil straight from the garage it is poured through a kitchen sive and that's it. it sits in a 44 gallon drum and gravity feed to a waste oil heater which we now build and sell plans on how to build them. Check us out at dripfedwasteoilheating
So my furnace is sitting outside and heats water, the water it heats thermosyphons up to a large radiator in out lounge. At the moment the cat is lying along the top of it , it's putting out 50degrees C my face feels hot the whole top level of the home is warm and all heated by waste engine oil.

PeteHeat

Drip Fed wrote: »

Your oil that you purchase, which is sold to you as Heating fuel oil came from waste engine oil, waste canola oil, All they have done is remove the water, filtered it and filtered again and mixed Kerosene in it to make it thinner for the central heating system. I say there is no reason why you can't do that yourself, For the last 5 years I have been heating my home in NZ with waste oil straight from the garage it is poured through a kitchen sive and that's it. it sits in a 44 gallon drum and gravity feed to a waste oil heater which we now build and sell plans on how to build them. Check us out at dripfedwasteoilheating
So my furnace is sitting outside and heats water, the water it heats thermosyphons up to a large radiator in out lounge. At the moment the cat is lying along the top of it , it's putting out 50degrees C my face feels hot the whole top level of the home is warm and all heated by waste engine oil.

Hi,

The majority of oil fired boilers in Ireland use kerosene without any additives.

The reason kerosene can be used on boilers with low level balanced flue systems is there are no lubricants in the fuel allowing it to burn clean.

Our old type domestic heating oil (still available) is / was diesel, a product that is good enough to use in your car or tractor except for the fact that if caught using it revenue will hit you with a hefty fine and may even impound your vehicle.

I can't say I know much about the fuel standards in N.Z. however I can assure you that burning waste engine oil is against the law here for environmental reasons (not just revenue).

Another reason for being very careful with unapproved systems is if they go wrong and cause a fire insurance companies don't have to pay out on the home insurance policies.

That said some Irish people do experiment with burning waste oil and they are happy to share their experiences free of charge, for example one channel on You Tube from an Irish man.

A problem many do find is sourcing the waste engine oil because our garages must account for the disposal of their waste oil or be subject to big fines.
.

Calahonda52

It looks like our friend drip fed is in breach of his own EPA rules:
page 15 of this
http://www.epa.govt.nz/Publications/Management_and_handling_of_used_oil.pdf

and at the same time he advertises
http://www.hellotrade.com/drip-fed-waste-oil-heating/

PeteHeat

Calahonda52 wrote: »

It looks like our friend drip fed is in breach of his own EPA rules:
page 15 of this
http://www.epa.govt.nz/Publications/Management_and_handling_of_used_oil.pdf

and at the same time he advertises
http://www.hellotrade.com/drip-fed-waste-oil-heating/

Hi,

Appears N.Z. laws are very similar to our own.

Drip Fed may like some people in Ireland be entirely within the law selling waste oil burners, leaving all scruples aside they don't have to tell the buyer about the penalties for using the appliance however, claiming to be using one might land him in trouble.

We have laws about waste oil disposal.

We have laws about transporting waste without a licence so even sourcing the product can be an offence.

We have the laws above regarding burning waste oil.

We have common sense that we should use regarding our environment.

Do we or should we need more laws making it an offence to build or sell such appliances?

Personally I want my children and grand children to be able to breathe air that has not been contaminated with toxic fumes by the few who refuse to think for themselves or at the minimum join the dots (the laws) already mentioned in this thread.
.