Questions about moving private to public sector

sygdsaugdyuysd

In the private sector late twenties and seriously considering ditching my ‘dream’ job and apply for a more financially rewarding position in the public sector.
From my point of view I don’t see much point being in the private sector unless I’m making seriously good money, and all in all the public sector appeals to me.
Seems like the sort of place where staff are treated well!
Thinking long term, what sort of life I want to have in a few years time, supposing there were kidlets etc..
I like what I do but long term there’s no security and in many respects being in the public sector makes more sense, long term.
I have a few questions though, How long do you have to be working in the public sector before you can take a career break?, and for how long?
Want to head off to Oz in two years time for a year
Also, I’ve been looking at the salary scale and if I started on the bottom I’d have to take a pay cut, but I’ve also been told that the public sector bodies sometimes put you further up the scale if your private sector salary matches that.
Is that correct?
Any opinions?
Have a few pros listed-
9-5
Benchmarking, guaranteed pay rise/scale
Job security
Possibility of a sabbatical

To those of you who have made the switch before me how have you found it..

thewing

I'm in public sector - for all the bad press it gets there's a lot to be said

answer to questions

Career break - need 3 years service under your belt

If you come from private sector and are going for a similar postion, your pay scale should match up - should be no need for a cut

Electric

sygdsaugdyuysd wrote: »

In the private sector late twenties and seriously considering ditching my ‘dream’ job and apply for a more financially rewarding position in the public sector.
From my point of view I don’t see much point being in the private sector unless I’m making seriously good money, and all in all the public sector appeals to me.
Seems like the sort of place where staff are treated well!
Thinking long term, what sort of life I want to have in a few years time, supposing there were kidlets etc..
I like what I do but long term there’s no security and in many respects being in the public sector makes more sense, long term.
I have a few questions though, How long do you have to be working in the public sector before you can take a career break?, and for how long?
Want to head off to Oz in two years time for a year
Also, I’ve been looking at the salary scale and if I started on the bottom I’d have to take a pay cut, but I’ve also been told that the public sector bodies sometimes put you further up the scale if your private sector salary matches that.
Is that correct?
Any opinions?
Have a few pros listed-
9-5
Benchmarking, guaranteed pay rise/scale
Job security
Possibility of a sabbatical

To those of you who have made the switch before me how have you found it..

In order to take a career break you need 3 years service. If you can't take a career break (or are refused a career break) you can take special unpaid leave which can run for up to 11 months.

Where I am you get bumped up 2 points on the salary scale if you have a degree. That being said I applied for and got a job in the Courts Service and when I explained that I was currently on a higher salary to what they were offering they said that there was nothing they could do to move me up. So I had to decline the offer.

However we do get an increment every year on the anniversary of the date that you completed your probation.

I've also gotten my tuition fees for my Masters paid and 15 days study leave plus exam leave.

We also have flexitime which is excellent we are allowed to work up 1 days additional leave in every period and 1.5 in the 2 periods running up to Christmas.

Oh and don't forget the pension!

stepbar

It's no wonder the Health Service is in the state it is with benefits like that.

Dudess

Isn't the health sector cutting back on admin staff?

jackbhoy

thewing wrote: »

I'm in public sector - for all the bad press it gets there's a lot to be said

It gets bad press because of its lack of productivity, over paid staff, lack of accountability, salary increases by default as opposed to on a performance basis and overly generous pensions, I'd say there is a lot to be said for "working" there alright. :rolleyes:

green123

the public sector is a disgrace with their constant strikes and huge pay increases
but if you cant beat them join them

timetogetfit

Are there jobs you can apply for if you dont have a 3rd level qualifcaition I reckon it must be hard to get a job into public sector, there must be alot of competition

green123

timetogetfit wrote: »

Are there jobs you can apply for if you dont have a 3rd level qualifcaition I reckon it must be hard to get a job into public sector, there must be alot of competition

its about who you know, rather than what you know

run_Forrest_run

green123 wrote: »

its about who you know, rather than what you know

spot on green. fact.

Wishbone Ash

green123 wrote:

the public sector is a disgrace with their constant strikes

"Constant strikes" - where?

green123 wrote: »

its about who you know, rather than what you know

The Public Service recruitment is very open and transparent unlike the private sector where employers are more or less free to appoint whom they wish.

mikemac

green123 wrote: »

the public sector is a disgrace with their constant strikes and huge pay increases

No benchmarked increases this year so strikes may yet happen

seamus

If you have a very set role in the private sector where you just do your thing, then you may benefit from the move.
If you have a job that requires a little creativity and imagination though, you'll be frustrated in the public sector. Your boss and your colleagues won't want to know about your new ideas and will turn on you for rocking the boat.

bill_ashmount

micmclo wrote: »

No benchmarked increases this year

Good

thewing

jackbhoy wrote: »

It gets bad press because of its lack of productivity, over paid staff, lack of accountability, salary increases by default as opposed to on a performance basis and overly generous pensions, I'd say there is a lot to be said for "working" there alright. :rolleyes:

What a bitter shower ye are......

I work damn hard in my public sector job. Working till 1am last nite and in at 7am this morning.

If you think there's a moral higher ground in working in the private sector then fair play, but i'll take my salary increases by default (and my performance related one due to contract I'm on) any day over the private sector peanuts.

ixoy

thewing wrote: »

What a bitter shower ye are......

Bitter because of how it's funded..

If you think there's a moral higher ground in working in the private sector then fair play, but i'll take my salary increases by default (and my performance related one due to contract I'm on) any day over the private sector peanuts.

Everyone would love the benefits but realise that it's completely unviable in the private sector because a business implementing that model would fail. It makes it hard to stomach then when various factions of the public sector complain about their lot when they have such a great deal in many many ways.

green123

thewing wrote: »

What a bitter shower ye are......

my salary increases by default

this is just one of the reasons why i am bitter
when the private sector wont even match inflation

f***ing disgrace

thewing

@OP

Get ready for some bitterness from your private sector buddies once you make the move.

bill_ashmount

Genuine question: What is the situation with sick days in the public sector. I've recently been told of someone who works for the a county council who told me they are entitled to 7 sick days a year, so they take them wheter they are sick or not. Is this the case?

As i said, just looking for an answer, not a debate on it.

Electric

Yes you are entitled to 7 uncertified sick days per year. But it is counting on a rolling basis and not a calender year.

You are also entitled to 6 months certified sick leave in a 5 year period during which you will receive full pay. Anything over that your pay begins to reduce.
Oh and that's on a rolling basis too

ixoy

Electric wrote: »

Yes you are entitled to 7 uncertified sick days per year. But it is counting on a rolling basis and not a calender year.

Surely though you're not meant to be taking them if you're not sick? That's quite different thing to a genuine complaint. It sounds like that city council worker is abusing the whole sick day notion.

bill_ashmount

Electric wrote: »

Yes you are entitled to 7 uncertified sick days per year. But it is counting on a rolling basis and not a calender year.

You are also entitled to 6 months certified sick leave in a 5 year period during which you will receive full pay. Anything over that your pay begins to reduce.
Oh and that's on a rolling basis too

Thanks.

The_Conductor

Electric wrote: »

In order to take a career break you need 3 years service. If you can't take a career break (or are refused a career break) you can take special unpaid leave which can run for up to 11 months.

Correct. The career break can last up to 10 years (and can be taken in up to 3 lumps)- but you will not earn pension/RSI contributions during this period- so you will have to make alternate arrangements.

Electric wrote: »

Where I am you get bumped up 2 points on the salary scale if you have a degree. That being said I applied for and got a job in the Courts Service and when I explained that I was currently on a higher salary to what they were offering they said that there was nothing they could do to move me up. So I had to decline the offer.

Starting at above the bottom point of the salary scale is unusual- just because you have a post in the private sector at a much higher salary in no manner entitles you to come in at a commensurate level in the Civil Service/Public Service. When I joined the civil service I took a pay cut of almost 35%. I accepted that flexitime and the ability to take 4 weeks paid holidays (statutory minimum) per year were a sufficient trade-off for the reduction in salary.

Electric wrote: »

However we do get an increment every year on the anniversary of the date that you completed your probation.

It should be noted that probationary periods range from 1 to 4 years (not the 6 months you get in the private sector). The norm in the civil service is two years- and if you get a promotion- the promotion is on a 2 year probation- you can be downgraded to your previous rank.

Electric wrote: »

I've also gotten my tuition fees for my Masters paid and 15 days study leave plus exam leave.

The norm is 100% payment of college fees- where the course being studied is job related, otheriwise is 50% refunded. You get 1 day study leave per exam, and the morning or afternoon of the exam off (not the full day).

Electric wrote: »

We also have flexitime which is excellent we are allowed to work up 1 days additional leave in every period and 1.5 in the 2 periods running up to Christmas.

It really is an excellent way of supplementing your annual leave- and very easy to earn the extra time.

Electric wrote: »

Oh and don't forget the pension!

It is a contributory PRSI pension- with your public sector pension reduced by whatever the prevailing contributory pension is (unlike whats reported in the media- the contributory pension is not in addition to your public pension). The big benefit is that the pension is defined benefit- rather than defined contribution- i.e. you know you will get 50% of your final salary as a pension (along with a lumpsum of 1.5 times your average salary in the 4 years prior to retiring). If you do not have 40 years service your pension rights do get reduced on a rolling actuarial scale- which catches a lot of people, myself included, out- as its very expensive to buy those extra rights.

All-in-all, its to be recommended- but don't expect to come in on the same salary as you were getting in the private sector.

Electric

ixoy wrote: »

Surely though you're not meant to be taking them if you're not sick? That's quite different thing to a genuine complaint. It sounds like that city council worker is abusing the whole sick day notion.

No you're definitely not supposed to take them if you are not sick, and where I am considers abuse of the sick leave scheme to be extremely seriously (as I assume most employers do).

I'll give you an example. Around this time last year there was this girl working on my floor but she worked in a different department. Anyway she would regularly call in sick and when her supervisor pulled her up on it she said that she was having serious difficulties at home. So the supervisor was really fair and together with HR they worked things out for her. They agreed to give her the time she needed cos when she was in she was really good at her job. And I guess they felt sorry for her.

But as it turned out when she was out, supposedly sick, she was emailing this guy in her department in arranging nights out and basically telling him that she was faking it. Her supervisor found out and got copies of the emails and took them to her head of department. She got her marching orders not too long after

Electric

I actually get 15 days study leave plus a half day's leave for each exam. But in order to qualify for the training scheme I had to complete my probation (though I think courses such as the QFA are exempt from this requirement).

I'll probably get slated for this but I do love working in the public sector (and it's not just for the benefits) so if I were you I would apply and see what happens. Though it can take a while to hear back.

jackbhoy

thewing wrote: »

What a bitter shower ye are......

I work damn hard in my public sector job. Working till 1am last nite and in at 7am this morning.

If you think there's a moral higher ground in working in the private sector then fair play, but I'll take my salary increases by default (and my performance related one due to contract I'm on) any day over the private sector peanuts.

Not bitter in the least, I left a well paid "cushy" job to do something I enjoy. Now I get up in the morning and look forward to going into work because its interesting, challenging and exceptional performance is rewarded, not to sit a desk doing a mind numbing job where lifers fear words like "change" or "efficiency" more than the 3 horsemen of the Apocalypse. If you work hard then you are, in my experience, an exception to most public service departments, where I've seen weekly targets that people could easily get completed by Tuesday lunch time if they got off their arses and actually worked.
If you are good at your job then I fully believe you should be rewarded but the fact is the people around you who do fook all will get practically same wage increases anyway, they are the people that I take exception to....

thewing

Yeah, I hear ya - and that is what will force me out of this place eventually.

You could bust your balls or sit on your arse, you'll still get same pay rise, and that is soul destroying.

BUt for now, it's a great place to train up and learn my skills and the pay and conditions are good.

RainyDay

Lots of fiction and off-target generalisations on this post. The public sector varies from tiny 1-2 person agencies, to govt departments (civil service) to the 100,000+ HSE. There is no one single culture or style of operation. Talk of automatic increments without any link to performance is not true of the civil service, or many agencies who have implemented PMDS peformance management systems.

I switched to the public sector (a smallish agency) a few years back after 20+ years in the private sector, and I've never looked back. Like smccarrick, I took a painful cut in salary, but with a shorter working week and more holidays, I'm a reasonably happy camper.

My own agency is no more or less political or bureaucratic than any of the several large multi-nationals that I worked for.

pow wow

I temped there for a while and everyone seemed dreadfully miserable and constantly complained about being screwed over by the hierarchy. Morale was quite low and I think this goes hand in the hand with the lack of enthusiasm that people perceive as being a given in the Civil Service. There were hard workers, there were dossers, and all of them complained about 'the system'.

From working in the private sector I have to say it was the cushiest number I'd seen as regards targets, breaks, and generally being free to come and go as you liked without a manager second guessing you (this is the permanent staff). And yet none of them seemed especially happy there. It's something I'd consider if I was married with kids and a big mortgage, other than that I'd rather be in the private sector.

Tom Dunne

seamus wrote: »

Your boss and your colleagues won't want to know about your new ideas and will turn on you for rocking the boat.

Allow me to share my experiences of the Public Sector.

It was a small (~50 people), decidedly old-school organisation where there was a massive chasm between the workers, management and the real world.

I arrived full of enthusiasm and was told within the first week or two to tone it down. I showed a genuine interest in a certain areas and was accused of encroaching on somebody else's turf. I had to sit and watch a fellow IT "professional" make monumental cock-ups and not face any repercussions. And I had to tidy after him.

If I was to sum my experiences up, it would be that the vast majority of my then co-workers could do with a dose of reality and should be sent to work in a "real" company. They wouldn't last two weeks.

I did actually enjoy my time in the organisation, they were good people, but I found I was going nowhere. I had no career path, I was being paid the same as my fellow IT "professional" who had no qualifications whatsoever (I have a Masters).

I am sure not all public sector organisations are this bad, maybe the one I worked in was an extreme case. Prove me wrong.

Please.

The_Conductor

Tom Dunne wrote:

I am sure not all public sector organisations are this bad, maybe the one I worked in was an extreme case. Prove me wrong.

Please.

Sorry- Tom, what you are describing sounds pretty much parr for the course. Even if you do rock the boat- and get your ideas listened to- people may make happy noises about your proposals, but ultimately nothing will happen (unless you do it all yourself- and if it works out, someone else will take credit for it.....). It can be totally soul destroying.

Tom Dunne

smccarrick wrote: »

Sorry- Tom, what you are describing sounds pretty much parr for the course. Even if you do rock the boat- and get your ideas listened to- people may make happy noises about your proposals, but ultimately nothing will happen (unless you do it all yourself- and if it works out, someone else will take credit for it.....). It can be totally soul destroying.

You are not serious? I really, really thought this organisation was one of a kind.

It's a really sad state of affairs. Hence why I got out.

ParkRunner

Im seriously contemplating leaving the civil service because to me it doesnt seem to matter if you work hard or not. PMDS is not taken seriously really as far as I can see. Im studying to complete a masters and am stuck at CO level for the foreseeable future with no prospect of promotion, it's very frustrating at the bottom but if you can get into a higher grade I would say it would be great. The working conditions, the people and the benefits are great but you might as well just do the work you have to do and nothing more, the increments are signed off 95% of the time as far as I can see

The_Conductor

EF- you have my sympathies. Qualifications mean absolutely nothing, nor do you even get financial recognition of your educational achievements- even if they are in areas relevant to your job. The problem with being a CO,SO,EO or even AO/HEO- is promotions in the past were pretty much based on seniority, not on merit- so there are a lot of senior people there, who got to where they are solely on the basis of how long they were in the service, not anything else (you had to be very bad indeed or have offended someone very high up- not to get a promotion). Some people do take PMDS seriously- and in some places it works very well. Unfortunately I'd have to agree that in a lot of places it simply doesn't work. I'm depressed.

Kiya

Smccarrick & EF, I understand how you feel..
I was so depressed with how I was treated in the civil service that I quit. Best decision EVER! (Now if only my current job had flexi time it would be fab!)
I worked in the service for 7 years & my parent dept changed not once but 3 times! Imagine having to deal with brand new managers, hr etc.
Also, due to some crazy govt idea, we were unable to hire any new staff or have serving staff transfer to us.
Which meant that as a co I ended up doing the work of my heo who had quit. Few more of co’s in the same boat & we were told when the dept changed that we would be permanently promoted to a higher grade - Never happened.:(

When new dept still couldn’t get staff transferred, hr agreed to promote us. continued doing the work, (still not getting paid the higher wage) & were assured that after a year doing this we would be "made permanent in a higher grade" (& they’d pay us in arrears the higher salary)
Unfortunately 2 weeks before this was due to happen, we changed dept again & we were all demoted. :eek: (i now know they never intended to backpay, they obviously knew in advance that the dept was going to change, measly gits)

This was the final straw for me, Id worked my ass off for years & never had the opportunity to go for promotion, as each time we changed depts., the new one "conveniently" held their competitions before we joined. Very demoralising.
Now I’ve got a fab job in the private sector. With decent opportunities for promotion & the salary is much better. You also get treated with a lot more respect.
Plus it was a decent salary, bout 15k more than my measly civil service salary.

And to those of you ignorant of the realities of benchmarking etc...
Only the higher grades, like upper management who come away with the big increases in salary.
The lower grades receive the lowest % of increases. and believe me, theyre the ones who need it most.

I mean look at the situation with the firemen etc, have you seen their basic salary???? :mad:
For people who put their lives on the line for a miserable €455.21 a week (so 23,670 before tax)!
And the gov have decided to increase their own wages by €38K.
Its sick. I never voted for those greedy gits to increase their wages.. did you?

ParkRunner

smccarrick wrote: »

EF- you have my sympathies. Qualifications mean absolutely nothing, nor do you even get financial recognition of your educational achievements- even if they are in areas relevant to your job. The problem with being a CO,SO,EO or even AO/HEO- is promotions in the past were pretty much based on seniority, not on merit- so there are a lot of senior people there, who got to where they are solely on the basis of how long they were in the service, not anything else (you had to be very bad indeed or have offended someone very high up- not to get a promotion). Some people do take PMDS seriously- and in some places it works very well. Unfortunately I'd have to agree that in a lot of places it simply doesn't work. I'm depressed.

I couldnt agree more. My AP is absolutely useless. He is meant to attend court for hearings but he sends the EO's down in case he's asked a question. It's him that gets all the bonuses and praise for having such a productive and efficient section but he just drinks tea and reads the paper. A HEO in the section beside me is regularly bi-passed i.e things go from CO/EO straight to AP level because the HEO is so incompetent..ill start sending my CV around I think!

J.S. Pill

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

The Public Service recruitment is very open and transparent unlike the private sector where employers are more or less free to appoint whom they wish.

wishful thinking

pull is still very much prevalent at clerical level for local authorities, state agencies, university admin and the like.

inarut

In the cs, qualifications and experience mean nothing to the extent that someone could study for a PhD and work overtime and flat out with consistently good PMDS ratings at the same time but still be overlooked for promotion while someone else who lies horizontal all day long without any relevant experience or qualifications gets the nod.

Dudess

green123 wrote: »

its about who you know, rather than what you know

Load of crap. And so are other points here made by people who obviously don't know what they're talking about. I went for a clerical position in a local authority where my father was a senior staff member. I made number 47 in a panel of 50 and didn't get an offer until a year later. And it was a dreadful job too - cashier on the service charges desk. The office was absolutely Dickensian and the desk I was at was so badly designed I started to develop back problems. And I was constantly being reminded that just because my father was senior didn't mean I was going to get any special treatment - not that I ever tried to use it to my advantage or anything. People just kept throwing it at me.
All those who badmouth public servants: you can go for jobs in the public sector too. What's stopping you?

Bob in Belfast

Dudess wrote: »

Load of crap. And so are other points here made by people who obviously don't know what they're talking about. I went for a clerical position in a local authority where my father was a senior staff member. I made number 47 in a panel of 50 and didn't get an offer until a year later. And it was a dreadful job too - cashier on the service charges desk. The office was absolutely Dickensian and the desk I was at was so badly designed I started to develop back problems. And I was constantly being reminded that just because my father was senior didn't mean I was going to get any special treatment - not that I ever tried to use it to my advantage or anything. People just kept throwing it at me.
All those who badmouth public servants: you can go for jobs in the public sector too. What's stopping you?

No it's not a 'load of crap' maybe you didn't have the qualities that they were looking for.
But you say you still got the job!!!
And then you didn't like the job?
The office furniture wasn't up to standard and it gave you back ache
maybe it wasn't the furnitures fault, maybe it was your size E cups.:(

Dudess

I said "load of crap" to someone who claimed "it's who you know not what you know". But you're obviously just trying to wind me up as usual, so I really shouldn't be dignifying your post. But anyway, I'm doing so. Silly me...

ntlbell

Dudess wrote: »

I said "load of crap" to someone who claimed "it's who you know not what you know". But you're obviously just trying to wind me up as usual, so I really shouldn't be dignifying your post. But anyway, I'm doing so. Silly me...

looks like the whole of boards is just out to get you :rolleyes:

Dudess

Oh no, just Bob in Belfast. And he's not just "out to get" me, he's constantly posting antagonistic comments directed at various people. He's not doing it on After Hours because he knows I, or one of the other mods, will ban him, so he's just picking random other forums. He swore he'd quit it a couple of weeks ago, so we all predicted he'd lay off for a short while and then get back to it. How right we were! Bob, you could try at least being just a LITTLE less predictable.

ntlbell

Dudess wrote: »

Actually ntlbell, you're fairly similar. Try being civil on Boards - you'll find it makes for a pleasant experience sweetie. xx

I'm mostly very civil.

I don't see in this thread were I wasn't?

It seems you seem to have lost the ability of perception on boards and constantly change what people said to what you think they said causing petty arguments.

I've enjoyed boards for many a year and I'm sure you don't have time to follow me around but the majority of my posts are in technical forums offering help and advice where I can.

But thanks for the tip I'll work on being a more civil poster.

Dudess

What exactly is civil about this?

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=54860915&postcount=42

And how exactly could it be misconstrued? (which is what you claim I tend to do).

ntlbell

Dudess wrote: »

What exactly is civil about this?

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=54860915&postcount=42

And how exactly could it be misconstrued? (which is what you claim I tend to do).

How was it uncivil?

I was pointing out it seems to a common thing with you assuming people say things with nothing but with the intention to annoy you. I'm referring to your post to bob that he was out to "annoy" you.

Dudess

Nah, you've got me all wrong - honest.

Bob's only here to antagonise/abuse people (note: lots of people, not just me!) nothing more. Heh, ironing: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=54730937&postcount=35

But back on topic: I personally wouldn't work in the public sector as the jobs can be very tedious and can involve dealing with very difficult members of the public. It's not all rosy as people who have never worked there seem to think.

ParkRunner

And we're not getting any payrise now under benchmarking! Way to motivate us

ixoy

EF wrote: »

And we're not getting any payrise now under benchmarking! Way to motivate us

See this is the problem with benchmarking - the public service sem to think it's almost mandatory and are now grumbling when they didn't get it. This is in spite of other raises that they'll still get anyway and all the aforementioned perks.

ParkRunner

I dont think it should be mandatory that we get a pay rise but given the circumstances and the fact that the upper grades i.e. PO level, secretary general and the politicians have been awarded pay increases and those at the bottom are left with nothing..it really is bad management in my opinion.

ntlbell

EF wrote: »

I dont think it should be mandatory that we get a pay rise but given the circumstances and the fact that the upper grades i.e. PO level, secretary general and the politicians have been awarded pay increases and those at the bottom are left with nothing..it really is bad management in my opinion.

forgive me if I'm wrong, but isn't the benchmarking done by an independant 3rd party?

If so how is it down to bad management?