Snowfall in Ireland?

Cornilius

As a matter of interest excluding mountains where in Ireland do you think recieves the most and the least amount of snowfall is it the north midlands along the drumlins belt, the lough Neagh basin in Ulster or maybe even such centrally located town in the heart of Ireland like Birrrrrrr and Athlone? What do you think?

As regards the least, I think west Cork due to its bubble bath coastline? Or are there other locations which are also a hot spot!

Supercell

I'd say Donegal or Antrim.

They don't do so well during an Easterly but any kind of cold zonality (ie the most commn Irish winter type of cold weather) they can get loads of snow.
Northern Ireland generally is much snowier than most of the Republic bar the borders (obviously), thus Donegal if I was pushed , would get my vote as snowiest Republic county bar mountains , and probably including them also.

That said, most varied climate to live in Ireland bar the mountains would probably be the north midlands - gets warm in summer, cold in winter and gets snow whatever the direction usually.
If there was decent hills in the midlands - I'd be living there now!!(as a weather nut)

Where would I least like to live...SW coast..gets windy and wet but thats about it, no snow, no heat, no cold, lots of wind..no thanks!, beautiful place though.

Danno

The UKMO have a chart for their snowiest places - does out MetE publish a similar chart?

example: http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/climate/uk/averages/19611990/dl/1.gif

Danno

Compare this -

http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/climate/uk/averages/19712000/dl/1.gif

Spot the difference?

Danno

Officially: http://www.met.ie/climate/clones.asp Clones with 10.8 days per year of snow lying at 0900z. Or 26.9 days with reported sleet/snow falling. Mind you, Claremorris comes in a close second with over 24 days with reported sleet/snow falling. Dublin's Casement is around 16.

Gonzo

worst places in ireland are probably coastlines of cork and kerry and perhaps around rosslare which never seems to get that cold, or that warm in the summer. The east is only good during an easterly. North midlands and Northern Ireland+Donegal seem best chances most of the time.

Cornilius

I was surprised to see that Cork Airport having simular sleet/snow days and lying snow days as Casement! I also noticed there was a huge difference between Cork airport 16.4 days sleet/snow and 5.6 days lying snow and Roches point 8.7 and 1.3?

kerry1960

Gonzo wrote: »

worst places in ireland are probably coastlines of cork and kerry and perhaps around rosslare which never seems to get that cold, or that warm in the summer. The east is only good during an easterly. North midlands and Northern Ireland+Donegal seem best chances most of the time.

correct me if im wrong but did valentia island have the coldest temperature of winter 96/97 in the republic ?.think it dropped to -6 in early january ,i know it was quite a freeze up for my location ,i remember the ponds on the mountain freezing on xmas nite with snow showers early on stephens day and further (proper) snowfall a few days later,that cold spell with occ freezing fog lasted for about 8 days,one of those nights was the only time in my life i saw diamond dust ,definately the coldest since 1982 around here,just shows even the mildest location (mine) in the old days could get proper winter weather given the right conditions but that does'nt happen nowdays , has the climate warmed up to such an extent that in the not too distant future we will have to scramble to the nearest mountain before 10am to see snow.???????????

DOCARCH

Cornilius wrote: »

I was surprised to see that Cork Airport having simular sleet/snow days and lying snow days as Casement! I also noticed there was a huge difference between Cork airport 16.4 days sleet/snow and 5.6 days lying snow and Roches point 8.7 and 1.3?

Altitude.

Paddy.1

Interesting thread. I obtained snowfall totals from Met Eireann for Ireland going back to 1986. I will try and scan and post accumulations totals for the 1986-2007 period later.

In sum though, the area with the highest frequency of snowfall in that period (and away from major mountain ranges) is located in a 'bubble' which includes most of inland areas of Connacht, south/west Ulster and NW Lenster. The south east of Ireland fairs worst, indeed, Valentia is more likely to have snow than Rosslare, which indeed shows that our highest frequency of snowfall is more likely to come from polar maratime than polar continental.

Hope that gives a basic idea.:)

gurramok

Dublin airport having only 4.5 days of lying snow on average in last 30years(certainly not post millenium!) sums up the suffering of dubs, have ye any sympathy in your bones for us?

bold_defender

I've been keeping an eye on things here over the last few days as no snow in Dublin but had a few inches at home in Armagh, all gone by time I got there though. So first post is two questions.
Where is the snowiest mountain top likely to be? The spot with more snow than any other on the Island. I'm thinking somewhere in sperrins looking at those Met office maps, maybe Wicklow. I presume Kerry and Connemara too southerly and costal. Would inland areas have better chance, e.g. Tipp, maybe mournes or Donegal?

Also anyone have quick explanation for the difference in the met off maps, later 71-2000 one with more snow days.

Trogdor

Danno wrote: »

Compare this -

http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/climate/uk/averages/19712000/dl/1.gif

Spot the difference?

The scale is different on the two maps which makes it very confusing

bold_defender

Thanks Trogdor, too busy trying to work out snowiest places to pay attention to things like that. It would really be nice to get them with the same scale, for me anyway as I'm from up there!

Paddy.1

Paddy.1 wrote: »

Interesting thread. I obtained snowfall totals from Met Eireann for Ireland going back to 1986. I will try and scan and post accumulations totals for the 1986-2007 period later.

In sum though, the area with the highest frequency of snowfall in that period (and away from major mountain ranges) is located in a 'bubble' which includes most of inland areas of Connacht, south/west Ulster and NW Lenster. The south east of Ireland fairs worst, indeed, Valentia is more likely to have snow than Rosslare, which indeed shows that our highest frequency of snowfall is more likely to come from polar maratime than polar continental.

Hope that gives a basic idea.:)

I'd agree with the polar maratime versus the polar continental.
The latter is so rare but when it does happen,it beats the polar maratime hands down in terms of deliverability.
January 1982,the winters of 63 and 47 and the snowiest spells of the 80's all came from scandy highs.
Atlantic snow born and bred wouldnt hold a candle to them.

As regards rosslare,its station is practically in the irish sea so thats why it records temps as so mild.
Go a little inland to the nra station in enniscorthy and you will have an entirely different climate and more snow days.
Met Eireann arent everywhere so their stats can and do in my opinion miss a great deal of the country.

As regards where in Ireland you would see snow most regularally,I'd imagine you could get up above 30 days most winters on any mountain above 2500ft.
I know lugnaquilla in wicklow can some winters have at least some snow on it for a lot longer over the course of a winter and sometimes in june or october.

ongarboy

I notice Met Eireann have started reporting weather stats for Johnstown Castle so this will give a better perspective of weather conditions in other parts of Wexford including inland areas. Valentia in Kerry is similar to Rosslare as the weather station is on a coastal location at the southwest tip of the county and is not necessarily a representation of all weather conditions in other parts of Kerry. A station at Kerry Airport which is well inland would be welcomed as it would give representations of weather conditions of less coastal parts of Kerry/northwest Cork/southwest Limerick. It makes me wonder why Mayo which I think is a slightly smaller county than Kerry has 3 stations (Belmullet, Knock and Claremorris) ..sorry if this is a bit off topic.

Cornilius

I have noticed Dublin having been very unlucky on several occasions in the last five or six years. Even within the fews miles between kilcock and west Dublin having a huge difference in snowfall of recent or has that always been the case?

Yeah johnstown castle will be more representative than Rosslare but it's still not far inland,it's just north of Wexford town iirc near the Ferrycarrig hotel so at a rough guess that would put it about a mile or two max inland.
It often snows in Enniscorthy in marginal conditions when it would be raining or sleeting in wexford town for instance.

jd

Johnstown is right here
http://www.google.com/maps?ie=UTF8&ll=52.292424,-6.499625&spn=0.001965,0.004989&t=h&z=18&om=1


The weather station is being moved again, to a location further away from the buildings (EPA and dept of Ag were built here in the last 10 or so years)

Paddy.1

Deleted User wrote: »

I'd agree with the polar maratime versus the polar continental.

Atlantic snow born and bred wouldnt hold a candle to them.

As regards rosslare,its station is practically in the irish sea so thats why it records temps as so mild.
Go a little inland to the nra station in enniscorthy and you will have an entirely different climate and more snow days.
Met Eireann arent everywhere so their stats can and do in my opinion miss a great deal of the country.

.

Will have to agree and disagree at the same time:) The information I have obtained from Met Eireann with regards snowfall stems from information not only from their main synoptic stations, but from the many climatological stations they have based around the country, which a high proportion of those being inland. I agree that the Wicklow Mts would get a lot of snow each winter, but I am just on about basic low altitude snow.
The Atlantic can indeed deliver quite a dumping of snow at times. In 2000, the north western half of the country (I am not sure of the month, will root out information later) experieced Ireland's heaveist snowfall since Jan 1984 (Which surpassed the 82 snowfall event in terms of amount).
I will say that an easterly snowfall event however is more likely to have longevity as well as substantial falls at times.
All in all though, Ireland is not the place to be living in if anybody is a snow lover.

Gonzo

im not surprised the west is doing better, the easterly last week was the first one that delivered here in 15 years and we in meath rarely get anything worthwhile from a northerly or a westerly. Easterlys were common in the 80s sometimes happening 2 or 3 times in the one winter so we did really well back then. Now tho most snow events are westerlys, north westerlys or northerlys meaning mainly Galway, Sligo, Mayo, Leitrum, Donegal and sometimes north midlands fairs the best.

Paddy.1

Paddy.1 wrote: »

The information I have obtained from Met Eireann with regards snowfall stems from information not only from their main synoptic stations, but from the many climatological stations they have based around the country, which a high proportion of those being inland.

Ach but I know they have a lot of stations in peoples homes and farms dotted around the country but they couldnt possibly have enough of them to catch a good representation of the countries weather.
The same goes for the UK by the way.
They can give a good guess I suppose and thats all but they'll miss out on plenty.

The Atlantic can indeed deliver quite a dumping of snow at times. In 2000, the north western half of the country (I am not sure of the month, will root out information later) experieced Ireland's heaveist snowfall since Jan 1984 (Which surpassed the 82 snowfall event in terms of amount).
I will say that an easterly snowfall event however is more likely to have longevity as well as substantial falls at times.
All in all though, Ireland is not the place to be living in if anybody is a snow lover.

I agree it's far from an ideal place for snow lovers (unless you live in roundwood or annamoe or similarally high elsewhere ) but I personally witnessed drifts to tree tops (30 to 40ft) in north wexford in january 1982.The aer corps were doing food and essential supply drops by helicopter in the area and across many of the higher parts of wicklow.
Can you confirm any atlantic based snowfall to top that? I doubt it to be honest.I also recall my Father speaking of 1947 and the lane of his farm blocked with snow on more than a few occasions during that spell sometimes for weeks and that was at sea level.He could walk over ditches as if they weren't there.
I can also recall in january '87 the pillars into my house being covered over in snow which would have been a 5ft drift with a good 18 inch cover.
All those were scandi high events or variants (jan '87 was a northeasterly).
They happened before and can happen again.
There are loads of periods in history recent and through the centuries where there have been snow starvation for decades and snow heaven at other times.
You just need a repeat of the right synoptics which is obviously rare for an island usually in the grip of a prevailing atlantic maratime north atlantic drift influenced climate.
Thats something that could be done in the East too in january 82-though after that 10 day spell,the rest of the winter was mild.

Supercell

Ireland is pretty rubbish for prolonged lying snow, especially post 2000.
I don't see that trend reversing during my lifetime.
Unless Wicklow CoCo start giving permission to develop around Sally Gap (even then its becoming borderline even there) I fear that weeks of lying snow are in the realms of the past for the most of Ireland.

Paddy.1

Deleted User wrote: »

Ach but I know they have a lot of stations in peoples homes and farms dotted around the country but they couldnt possibly have enough of them to catch a good representation of the countries weather.

Agree with you here, but they do give a basic all round picture for climate of Ireland as a whole.

Deleted User wrote:

I personally witnessed drifts to tree tops (30 to 40ft) in north wexford in january 1982.The aer corps were doing food and essential supply drops by helicopter in the area and across many of the higher parts of wicklow.
Can you confirm any atlantic based snowfall to top that? I doubt it to be honest.

I am not sure of your point here, as you seem to be bringing high altitude into it, I am talking about snowfall frequency in general. Atlantic based snowfall would be insignificant for you as you live in the SE, whereas of course, an easterly would deliver there quite well, I never denied that.

Deleted User wrote:

I also recall my Father speaking of 1947 and the lane of his farm blocked with snow on more than a few occasions during that spell sometimes for weeks and that was at sea level.He could walk over ditches as if they weren't there.

That, believe it or not, was a nationwide phenomena in 1947, and despite the fact that it was of an easterly componant, the North & West were amongst the hardest hit areas in that year, not only with snowfall, but with low temperatures also.

I am just going on facts and figures. Snowfall in more likely to occur in low altitude from a line from Kerry to Dublin northwards. It is a fact of Irish weather. This is not denying however that it can occur anywhere with varying degrees of intensity. Synopitics are everything.:cool:

I don't share your pesimism longfield.
It's all a question of longevity so eat well and don't drink too much and you may well see another jan '82 event-though my then 95 year old grandfather hadn't seen anything like it before in a single event and he was a teenager in 1900 who lived most of his life in west cork.
He had seen several big snowfalls though,'47 being the most frequent even in west cork.

Though I don't share your pesimism,I have noticed that the snow in terms of quantity and quality that used fall at sea level now falls above 600ft.
I'm not convinced that the whole reason for that is global warming as such though my reasoning is a contradiction in terms.
It just has not got as cold during cold spells in recent years for the snow that now falls at 600ft to fall at sea level.

To add to that,the snow you now see in my opinion and I am very convinced of this is what used fall a number of years ago at 1200ft.
That at 1800ft used fall at 1200ft etc.

The events the last week in Meath and North Dublin go to show that this is not permanent.Photographs in the weather picture forum of icicles in low lying areas after a snowfall are photo's are proof that the synoptics are not gone forever,they'll come again,it's just like I said and like Paddy said,they're not usual here for obvious reasons.Hanging Icicles are common above 1000ft-they were common in the 80's snow falls at sea level.
By the way if that Irish sea shower train of last week had spread south westwards instead of due East,you and artictree would have had more than a foot of lying snow for definite.

Would that it were that you could order your snowfall on the a website like you can your groceries and have it delivered to you-nature does what nature wants.It will surprise us many times over before we leave it
I suspect a lot of people would be annoyed with people availing of that service

Paddy.1

Paddy.1 wrote: »

I am not sure of your point here, as you seem to be bringing high altitude into it, I am talking about snowfall frequency in general.

Uhm Paddy,I live at sea level and here we had 12 foot drifts and at least 3ft of level snow in january of 1982.Further uphill there were no roads at all.We were able to walk across ditches.The road beside my house was completely filled in for a week at sea level.

That, believe it or not, was a nationwide phenomena in 1947, and despite the fact that it was of an easterly component, the North & West were amongst the hardest hit areas in that year, not only with snowfall, but with low temperatures also.

I don't deny that,I was simply making the point that it was a scandi block and a Continental air mass that was responsible.

I am just going on facts and figures. Snowfall in more likely to occur in low altitude from a line from Kerry to Dublin northwards. It is a fact of Irish weather. This is not denying however that it can occur anywhere with varying degrees of intensity. Synopitics are everything.:cool:

I never denied where snow is most likely to fall.
I was just saying that when an Easterly gets into gear properly,then westerly snow can't hold a candle to it.

Danno

I doubt it, west would be best, especially with the long sea fetch to Greenland. Ever experience those Whiteouts? Where over an inch can get dumped in minutes? Again, like the East, all the jigsaw pieces have to fall in tthe right place. The east cartainly can sustain cold snaps longer, but precipitation is always higher when there is an incoming NWerly.

Finally though, an atlantic front colliding with a cold easterly is the best for a dump of snow, but then again this is a westerly prcipitation source.

kerry1960

yup my location is prob the drizzle/wind/cloud capital of western europe ,but thats why on the very very rare occasion when mother nature throws up something out of the odinary it can be memorable. From my sitting room , i'm looking at : THE PAPS/CARRANTUOHILL/TRALEE/TRALEE BAY/MOUNT BRANDON/ BALLYHEIGUE,no shelter whatsoever from SE to NW, i would love to have a met station up here in a storm , feathersnow(as we call it )is very rare, hail showers are much more frequent up here and can give a good (but shortlived) covering esp overnight ,yes it would be nice if we had colder winters but i would'nt like to live in alaska, i know snow can look very pretty but lets be honest the novelty wears off when it turns to wet brown slush after 3 hours, and lets face it a few hours/day of wintery weather seems to be all we get nowdays ,since 1997 there has been a definate change in winter conditions around here, the cold spells of the late 70s/early 80s seem'd to last longer and were more intense i can still remember them myself and have photos /videos to prove it ,as for the winters of 63 and 47 well i can't comment,if you were to believe the older people around here, polar bears roamed the countryside , flocks of penguins were washed ashore at fenit ,packs of huskies woried sheep in valentia ,wolves starved to death in sneem , icebergs were seen floating up the shannon estury ,and glaciers blocked the road from abbeyfeale to castleisland.....get my drift. ( get it) DRIFT ......never mind ,there are much smarter /better edcated people than me on this forum who can produce facts and figures etc one way or the other , and fine ,but in the last 40 years i walked the highways and byways of kerry have been fortunate enough to have holiday'd/worked/been stranded/ in places like sweden austria iceland (twice)and switzerland (and i have photos/video to prove this ) the one thing they all have in common is glaciers ,and any one of you who have seen these glaciers well it's there for all to see , every single one of these glaciers have shrunk way back over the years, not only over the last 30/40 years but over the 100 /150 years ,just one example ,google the GROSSGLOCKNER in austria ,in the early 30s/40s a tramrail was built from where the road reached the pass down to the glacier (THE PASTERZE) a distance of about 900 feet,3 years ago i travelled down this exact same tramrail , except now days when the tram reaches the bottom station (ie at 900feet )you must get out and walk down another 1200feet (app)to reach the same glacier ) now thats global warming , so lets face it folks,in the words of BOB DILLON .THE TIMES THEY ARE A CHANGIN..................if anyone is slightly interested in my vids i'll post some on U TUBE at later date ........thanks....bye

Danno

Danno wrote: »

Finally though, an atlantic front colliding with a cold easterly is the best for a dump of snow, but then again this is a westerly prcipitation source.

We're talking about snow and not rain.
Without that cold continental flow any atlantic frontal precipitation coming up from the south or southwest would have fallen as rain.
Also in january 1982 the atlantic influence actually did turn the system to rain in the south but thanks to cold continental air and very cold UK surface sourced air it stayed as snow elsewhere.
In fact here it never stopped snowing with a gale easterly from a wenesday night to saturday morning which explains the walking over ditches,12ft drifts and blocked roads at sea level.

Our prevailing weather means we do get more snow from especially northwesterlies and northerlies but really having lived through the 80's,I was spoiled and 3 or 4 inch falls though nice don't really cut it compared to a week long proper easterly

Paddy.1

Deleted User wrote: »

Our prevailing weather means we do get more snow from especially northwesterlies and northerlies but really having lived through the 80's,I was spoiled and 3 or 4 inch falls though nice don't really cut it compared to a week long proper easterly

Agree with you there, snow from the regular Atlantic source would not be as impactive in your location in the South East as it would be from an easterly. But that is not the case in other parts of the country.

But I think the above post is correct in saying that even in an easterly, snowfall would be an Atlantic based event, particularly if fronts were moving to the south of your location, which more than likely were to bring you such a dumping of snow that you remember.

Paddy.1

Paddy.1 wrote: »

But I think the above post is correct in saying that even in an easterly, snowfall would be an Atlantic based event, particularly if fronts were moving to the south of your location, which more than likely were to bring you such a dumping of snow that you remember.

Not necessarally either Paddy.
The january 87 event that delivered 5 ft deep drifts here and delivered similar to Danno was from a North Easterly and the front that caused the bulk of it originated in Scandinavia,passed through the north Sea,the north of England and was so active it was still snowing from it in Valentia as it exited the south west coast and into the atlantic.

The thread on the "worst snowfall in the west in 30 years" in 2000 talks of 6 or 8 inches only max.
I can give you at least 3 Easterly events in that period over here that delivered as much and a lot more and those were jan 82,jan 87 and february '91.
The latter two were exclusively easterly precipitation aswell.

Paddy.1

Deleted User wrote: »

Not necessarally either Paddy.
The january 87 event that delivered 5 ft deep drifts here and delivered similar to Danno was from a North Easterly and the front that caused the bulk of it originated in Scandinavia,passed through the north Sea,the north of England and was so active it was still snowing from it in Valentia as it exited the south west coast and into the atlantic.

The thread on the "worst snowfall in the west in 30 years" in 2000 talks of 6 or 8 inches only max.
I can give you at least 3 Easterly events in that period over here that delivered as much and a lot more and those were jan 82,jan 87 and february '91.
The latter two were exclusively easterly precipitation aswell.

Fair enough, but offical Met Eireann figures suggest that no more than 12cm of snow fell during that period in the south and east. The drifts were a result of high winds rather than huge snowfall totals. Something that occurs just as often on this side of this magnificent Island.

Paddy.1

Paddy.1 wrote: »

Fair enough, but offical Met Eireann figures suggest that no more than 12cm of snow fell during that period in the south and east. The drifts were a result of high winds rather than huge snowfall totals. Something that occurs just as often on this side of this magnificent Island.

which goes to show my point that their recording stations aren´t capable of covering enough to tell what is happening.
I can assure you that there was well more than 6 inches and up to a foot of level snow in this area and quite widely along the East coast at that time in ´87
Incidently this is not meant to be an "imby" contest , I was just detailing 3 mega snowfall events in the East in the same period in answer to the title of the other thread talking of 6 inches being the biggest snowfall in the west in 30 years