Chemtrails

zippy 99

Does anyone know who I can contact in order to complain about aerial spraying?? I have written to various government authorities but have failed to recieve a response.

I have been suffering from severe respatory problems recently as a result of the spraying.

Regards
Ian

Ciaran500

What kind of spraying?

Jack Sheehan

Can we get this straight? This is not the Conspiracy theories forum. Not at all. Ever.

zippy 99

Jack Sheehan wrote: »

Can we get this straight? This is not the Conspiracy theories forum. Not at all. Ever.

Who relegated this discussion to a conspiracy??

Jack Sheehan

Hmmm I promised myself i wouldn't get into another one of these arguments.

Suffice to say that chemtrails are not accepted science. You are saying they are gospel.

So this thread belongs in CT.

zippy 99

Jack Sheehan wrote: »

Hmmm I promised myself i wouldn't get into another one of these arguments.

Suffice to say that chemtrails are not accepted science. You are saying they are gospel.

So this thread belongs in CT.

I have said no such thing Jack.

And what interest is it of yours?

Jack Sheehan

It is in my interest that the 'Green Issues' forum ( note the title!) stays as a discussion of green issues only.

probe

Jack Sheehan wrote: »

It is in my interest that the 'Green Issues' forum ( note the title!) stays as a discussion of green issues only.

If this person is a victim of aerial spraying of chemicals - surely it is about as green an issue as one can conceive of? Or do you only care about the general environment, ignoring human beings, and perhaps animal welfare?

Please give us more detail.... Is someone flying over farmland in your area spraying chemicals? (ie crop dusters).

In what county? Have you been able to get the tag number of the aircraft? (Ireland's ISO-3166 country code "IE" dyslexically turned backwards by certain dysfunctional administrative morons to "EI", followed by three characters). We could then determine who owns the aircraft... (eg EI XXX)

The next stage of inquiry would be to determine what chemicals they are spraying - which presumably is also impacting your property or property which you occupy from time to time (not to mention plant and animal life thereon), as well as the land they intent do contaminate with these noxious chemicals?

.probe

Ciaran500

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemtrails

That is what Jack is talking about and I'm not sure if that is what zippy is talking.

Jack Sheehan

That is indeed what I was referring to. If it isn't what the OP is referring to I apologize.

zippy 99

Ciaran500 wrote: »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemtrails

That is what Jack is talking about and I'm not sure if that is what zippy is talking.

I have not posted this in the intention of getting a general consensus from the persons frequenting this forum about the validity of this spraying.

I live in the Dumdrum area and have noticed throughout the past summer leading into the new year evidence of spraying on a almost daily basis which is causing me severe respatory problems.

This is surley a green issue, as persons concerned about the environment surley our first concern is ourselves, a vital part of the system.

I am seeking advice on who to contact to discuss this issue. All government agencies have failed to reply.

BendiBus

What type of aircraft are doing the spraying?

High altitude jet aircraft, low altitude props, or black helicopters?

zippy 99

BendiBus wrote: »

What type of aircraft are doing the spraying?

High altitude jet aircraft, low altitude props, or black helicopters?

Again, if this thread is reduced to discussing black helicopters I feel the objective is being missed.

Does anyone have information on person who can give me some answers regarding this aerial spraying??

probe

zippy 99 wrote: »

I have not posted this in the intention of getting a general consensus from the persons frequenting this forum about the validity of this spraying.

I live in the Dumdrum area and have noticed throughout the past summer leading into the new year evidence of spraying on a almost daily basis which is causing me severe respatory problems.

This is surley a green issue, as persons concerned about the environment surley our first concern is ourselves, a vital part of the system.

I am seeking advice on who to contact to discuss this issue. All government agencies have failed to reply.

Absolutely it is a green issue. But you haven't answered the question about who is doing the spraying.

1) Is it from an aircraft - if so can we have the tag ID please?

2) Is it the local authority spraying the streets with weedkiller or whatever?

3) Is it some private entity doing the spraying in the course of their business operations?

Please understand that one has to know the details of the cause of the problem before one might even guess at a solution. Aircraft have very different regulatory structures to local authorities weed killing pollution. There is no single "Anti noxious spray ombudsman" that can deal with all sources.

.probe

zippy 99

probe wrote: »

Absolutely it is a green issue. But you haven't answered the question about who is doing the spraying.

1) Is it from an aircraft - if so can we have the tag ID please?

2) Is it the local authority spraying the streets with weedkiller or whatever?

3) Is it some private entity doing the spraying in the course of their business operations?

Please understand that one has to know the details of the cause of the problem before one might even guess at a solution. Aircraft have very different regulatory structures to local authorities weed killing pollution. There is no single "Anti noxious spray ombudsman" that can deal with all sources.

.probe

Aircraft. However I am unable to identify tag ID's due to altitude of said aircraft.

bonkey

zippy 99 wrote: »

evidence of spraying on a almost daily basis which is causing me severe respatory problems.

Correlation <> causation.

If a doctor has verified that your respiratory problems are due to certain chemicals and you have verified that these chemicals are being sprayed, then you're not overstating your case....but in such a situation, your doctor should be able to advise you as to what your options are.

I'd also be surprised if you had verified all of this and didn't know who was doing the spraying (as was asked).

This is surley a green issue, as persons concerned about the environment surley our first concern is ourselves, a vital part of the system.

So far, you've offered no evidence that the environment or environmental safety is an issue here. Indeed, it could well be the case that the spraying is an environmentally friendly activity which is preferable to there being no spraying. Again...unless you know what's being sprayed, any assumption of damage or danger is just that - an assumption.

I am seeking advice on who to contact to discuss this issue.

First stop would be the people doing the spraying. Second would be your doctor.

All government agencies have failed to reply.

Which agencies have you contacted, and what did such contact entail?

bushy...

zippy 99 wrote: »

Aircraft. However I am unable to identify tag ID's due to altitude of said aircraft.

You are going nowhere at all , without the ID , get a pair of binoculars/telescope and see if you can get them.

If you are serious about getting a result , you need to find out if there are more similar cases to your own in the area otherwise you are wasting your time.

Direct Mail is one way :
http://www.anpost.ie/AnPost/MainContent/Business+Customers/Our+Business+Services/DM+Toolkit/

and /or an ad in a local paper.

zippy 99

bushy... wrote: »

You are going nowhere at all , without the ID , get a pair of binoculars/telescope and see if you can get them.

I have tired binoculars but still no good.

The telescope is the next option as you have rightly pointed out.

The authorities have been leading me in circles.

Getting confirmed ID is priority before anything concrete can happen.

Zulu

this is over in the Conspiracy theories forum.

probe

zippy 99 wrote: »

Aircraft. However I am unable to identify tag ID's due to altitude of said aircraft.

Suggest you get a precise date, time and place of the flyover. Normally crop dusting is carried out at a low level, and the next time it passes over get your binoculars out!

You have to develop a case against an identified entity who is causing you this damage. Do they fly over your property or fly near it when spraying chemicals, thereby perhaps causing trespass?

You presumably know the landowner who has contracted with them to spray his property - have you written to him requesting that they cease on the grounds of the health problems being caused? Registered letter, keeping a copy. He no doubt knows who is doing it. What response do you get in due course....

It is basically a legal issue - and depending the facts it could be affecting your right to life in the long term - if you are willing to take a case that far [eg to the ECHR. (http://www.echr.coe.int/)].

You could try the www.epa.ie and the http://www.hse.ie whose job is to manage health risks. But given the name of that organization, they are just an "executive" - a bureaucracy with no customer focus.

It might be easier and cheaper to move, knowing the way that Ireland fumbles along.

.probe

zippy 99

I refuse to relegate a topic concerning my health and the health of others to a forum concerned with alien theory.

zippy 99

probe wrote: »

Suggest you get a precise date, time and place of the flyover. Normally crop dusting is carried out at a low level, and the next time it passes over get your binoculars out!

You have to develop a case against an identified entity who is causing you this damage. Do they fly over your property or fly near it when spraying chemicals, thereby perhaps causing trespass?

You presumably know the landowner who has contracted with them to spray his property - have you written to him requesting that they cease on the grounds of the health problems being caused? Registered letter, keeping a copy. He no doubt knows who is doing it. What response do you get in due course....

It is basically a legal issue - and depending the facts it could be affecting your right to life in the long term - if you are willing to take a case that far [eg to the ECHR. (http://www.echr.coe.int/)].

You could try the www.epa.ie and the http://www.hse.ie whose job is to manage health risks. But given the name of that organization, they are just an "executive" - a bureaucracy with no customer focus.

It might be easier and cheaper to move, knowing the way that Ireland fumbles along.

.probe

This is not crop dusting, I live in an urban metropolis.

probe

zippy 99 wrote: »

This is not crop dusting, I live in an urban metropolis.

One has to wonder why someone is flying over an urban metropolis spraying chemicals?

If you can't identify the landowner this aircraft is working for, suggest that you complain to www.iaa.ie in writing, enclosing a letter from your doctor, as evidence of the health hazard it is posing. They are mis-using Irish airspace to spread noxious chemicals, trespassing on your land.

Aside from that, if you can identify the person paying for this to be done on their land, in most legal systems there is a provision that if you cause to bring something on to your land, the landowner is liable for any injury it causes.

Perhaps it is some property developer engaged in a site clearance operation, trying to get everyone in his target zone to sell up! In which event, good luck. You haven't a hope.

.probe

zippy 99

probe wrote: »

One has to wonder why someone is flying over an urban metropolis spraying chemicals?


.probe

One does have to wonder.

Again you keep stressing the point about crop dusting. This is not crop dusting as I live in a builit up urban area.

I intend to find the culprits.

Jack Sheehan

zippy 99 wrote: »

One does have to wonder.

Again you keep stressing the point about crop dusting. This is not crop dusting as I live in a builit up urban area.

I intend to find the culprits.

OK lets get some things straight.

1. By saying 'Chemtrails' are you referring to the jet streams of Jet planes? Are you suggesting that these contain noxious chemicals causing you respiratory problems?

2. Who do you believe is doing this?

3. What evidence have you got to back this up?

Please answer these questions just so we can get you straight on this issue.

zippy 99

No the exhaust vapours from jet aircraft are generally refered to as contrails (condensation trails). Although these probably do contain chemicals, the impact at ground level would be negligible. Contrails generally last not more than two minutes, unually considerably less.

I am refering to spraying of chemicals from jet aircraft, leaving long trails which last for hours and spread out to form clouds. I believe this spraying is affecting my health.

I do not know who is doing this but intend to find out.

I have been witnessing this for nearly a year now and have often seen aircraft laying down the sprayed chemical in various configurations, such as parrallel lines, cross hatching etc.

Again, the objective of this post was to ask for advice on who to contact to get to the bottom of such issues, I am not here to discuss the validity of my claims.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

could you take a video of it with your phone or a digital camera next time it happens and upload it to youtube for us?

Jack Sheehan

Right.thanks for clearing that up anyway.

zippy 99

Mordeth wrote: »

could you take a video of it with your phone or a digital camera next time it happens and upload it to youtube for us?

I am not familiar with youtube? I am fairly new to the internet myself, but I am exploring all avenues in order to get some answers, after more traditional sources have failed.

I know for people living in Dublin, the spraying is generally visible on a daily basis, given the cloud cover is minimal. Just look for linear white streaks which might look like normal contrails at first, but linger for hours.

I have witnessed normal contrails for over 40 years and have been an amateur aircraft anorak since childhood, so this new phenomenum is really worrying.

probe

zippy 99 wrote: »

I am not familiar with youtube? I am fairly new to the internet myself, but I am exploring all avenues in order to get some answers, after more traditional sources have failed.

I know for people living in Dublin, the spraying is generally visible on a daily basis, given the cloud cover is minimal. Just look for linear white streaks which might look like normal contrails at first, but linger for hours.

I have witnessed normal contrails for over 40 years and have been an amateur aircraft anorak since childhood, so this new phenomenum is really worrying.

It would be helpful if you could establish the difference between aircraft emissions and road traffic emissions, in so far as they impact your health.

And while I personally think it is a good idea to head in the direction of eliminating the internal combustion engine from road transport (and no doubt it will happen in time) perhaps you might elaborate on your fixation on aircraft emissions? These vehicles are typically travelling at 9+ km above your head (except if you are on a flight path when they are coming in to land/taking off).

If you are living in an urban area, your body is far more heavily subjected to pollution from ICE road vehicles. The chances of your respiratory problems being caused solely or mainly by aircraft that are not engaged in chemical spraying are remote in the extreme.

As any sane, non-timewasting person will appreciate.

.probe

zippy 99

probe wrote: »

It would be helpful if you could establish the difference between aircraft emissions and road traffic emissions, in so far as they impact your health.

And while I personally think it is a good idea to head in the direction of eliminating the internal combustion engine from road transport (and no doubt it will happen in time) perhaps you might elaborate on your fixation on aircraft emissions? These vehicles are typically travelling at 9+ km above your head (except if you are on a flight path when they are coming in to land/taking off).

If you are living in an urban area, your body is far more heavily subjected to pollution from ICE road vehicles. The chances of your respiratory problems being caused solely or mainly by aircraft that are not engaged in chemical spraying are remote in the extreme.

As any sane, non-timewasting person will appreciate.

.probe

There you go again twisting my opinion. I stated that I am not talking about standard aircraft emissions already in this thread and I have made the distinction between contrials and aerial spraying.

In this case you are wasting time here.

If you have nothing to contribute in regard to persons whom I should contact in regard to getting to the bottom of this aerial spraying which is causing me sevre health problems I would appreciate if you could keep your sceptism to yourself.

robindch

zippy 99 wrote: »

Again, the objective of this post was to ask for advice on who to contact to get to the bottom of such issues, I am not here to discuss the validity of my claims.

You won't be able to find anybody who will admit to spraying chemicals in the troposphere, because nobody is spraying them, despite many claims of paranoid conspiracy theorists to the contrary. You can find out more about chemtrails here:

http://skepdic.com/chemtrails.html

I hope this helps.

Pines

So if I understand correctly there are jet aircraft flying over Dublin, laying down criss-cross patterns of hazardous chemicals, at an altitude too high to make out their ID markings. They are causing Zippy severe health problems but the other million and a half of us in the area are fit and healthy. Oh, and the government are whitewashing the issue by refusing to reply.

Remind me why this shouldn't be in conspiracy theories again?

zippy 99

robindch wrote: »

You won't be able to find anybody who will admit to spraying chemicals in the troposphere, because nobody is spraying them, despite many claims of paranoid conspiracy theorists to the contrary. You can find out more about chemtrails here:

http://skepdic.com/chemtrails.html

I hope this helps.

With all due respect, I have seen and experienced many things in my life and I trust my own views on issues without the need to visit skepdic(??) websites.

Again I am not here to discuss the validity of aerial spraying, merely to ask for advice on who to contact to get to the bottom of this spraying.

Gordon

Is there not an Aviation Authority?

ian_m

http://www.iaa.ie/

Concerns related to aviation in Ireland should be noted to the above, conspiracy, environmentally related etc. If you have a query they will deal with it.

zippy 99

Pines wrote: »

So if I understand correctly there are jet aircraft flying over Dublin, laying down criss-cross patterns of hazardous chemicals, at an altitude too high to make out their ID markings. They are causing Zippy severe health problems but the other million and a half of us in the area are fit and healthy. Oh, and the government are whitewashing the issue by refusing to reply.

Remind me why this shouldn't be in conspiracy theories again?

In the first instance, my name is Ian.

Again as I have stated before this is causing me serious health problems and I refuse to allow this issue to be relegated to conspiracy theory forums.

The number of respatory problems has increased considerably in recent times in response to your claim that everyone else is healthy. I know many of my friends and relatives have been coming down with asthma late in their lives, which is generally unheard of as the symptons usually appear in childhood/teenage years.

Again Pines, dont be so early to jump in with your opinions which I didnt start this thread in order to seek. I have contacted a number of government bodies to discuss the spraying but have recieved no response, so therefore I am asking for other avenues to explore.

Gordon

Who have you contacted so far?

robindch

Zippy wrote:

With all due respect, I have seen and experienced many things in my life and I trust my own views on issues without the need to visit skepdic(??) websites.

skepdic = skeptics' dictionary.

Look, I don't care whether or not you read that link -- it's up to you. I'm simply trying to help you by pointing you to some accurate information about your concerns.

zippy 99

robindch wrote: »

skepdic = skeptics' dictionary.

Look, I don't care whether or not you read that link -- it's up to you. I'm simply trying to help you by pointing you to some accurate information about your concerns.

Robindch, I take heart in your trying to help, but by consulting a skeptics dictionary I would merely discredit my opinons.

As accurate as any website opinon might be, if cloaked in such terms it could easily be discredited by the more cynical members of such forums as this.

Gordon

Gordon wrote: »

Who have you contacted so far?

Have you contacted the IAA?

robindch

zippy 99 wrote: »

by consulting a skeptics dictionary I would merely discredit my opinons.

It's difficult to say this without sounding rude, which I don't want to be, but have you given much consideration to the possibility, however remote, that your opinions may not be fully informed and therefore, may fall short of being 100% accurate?

zippy 99

robindch wrote: »

It's difficult to say this without sounding rude, which I don't want to be, but have you given much consideration to the possibility, however remote, that your opinions may not be fully informed and therefore, may fall short of being 100% accurate?

Robindch,

I do not consider you comment in the slightest rude, everyone has their own opinion, which they are entitlled too, and I would never argue aganist someones opinon.

I however have my own opinons, which would be that I am the victim of aerial spraying, along with my fellow neighbours in Dublin.

I have contacted various agencies in relations to this subject and have recieved no response. Could anyone lead me to a source which would respond to my queries??

2 stroke

Have you tried the epa. As far as I know they have to investigate all writen complaints about air polution.

Gordon

zippy 99 wrote: »

I have contacted various agencies in relations to this subject and have recieved no response. Could anyone lead me to a source which would respond to my queries??

What agencies have you contacted already?

robindch

zippy wrote:

I however have my own opinons [...] I have contacted various agencies in relations to this subject and have recieved no response.

You've received no response because neither the government, nor anybody else, is doing what you think they're doing -- passenger and other jets are not fitted with high-altitude sprayers, and jet fuel is not doped with viral or bacteriological agents. I'm sorry to say it, but more than likely, you're letters have been binned.

Why don't you try ringing up the met office in Glasnevin or the airport and speaking to somebody directly instead of writing letters (if that's what you're doing)?

I think you should prepare yourself to receive answers that you'll find discouraging if you're not prepared to consider the possibility that your opinions are some distance from reality.

blackbox

Pines wrote: »

So if I understand correctly there are jet aircraft flying over Dublin, laying down criss-cross patterns of hazardous chemicals, at an altitude too high to make out their ID markings. They are causing Zippy severe health problems but the other million and a half of us in the area are fit and healthy. Oh, and the government are whitewashing the issue by refusing to reply.

Remind me why this shouldn't be in conspiracy theories again?

+1 :rolleyes:

zippy 99

robindch wrote: »

You've received no response because neither the government, nor anybody else, is doing what you think they're doing -- passenger and other jets are not fitted with high-altitude sprayers, and jet fuel is not doped with viral or bacteriological agents. I'm sorry to say it, but more than likely, you're letters have been binned.

Why don't you try ringing up the met office in Glasnevin or the airport and speaking to somebody directly instead of writing letters (if that's what you're doing)?

I think you should prepare yourself to receive answers that you'll find discouraging if you're not prepared to consider the possibility that your opinions are some distance from reality.

My opinions are formed on solid foundations. If you studied history you would see this is nothing new:

http://www.nr23.net/spray.htm
http://www.nr23.net/spray_dorset.htm

Again I am not here to educate you or try to change your opinion on this topic. You have stated you case, why not leave it at that.

I have contacted the IAA, but will make another attempt with hopefully more success.

Pines

zippy 99 wrote: »

In the first instance, my name is Ian.

Hi Ian.

zippy 99 wrote: »

Again as I have stated before this is causing me serious health problems and I refuse to allow this issue to be relegated to conspiracy theory forums.

The number of respatory problems has increased considerably in recent times in response to your claim that everyone else is healthy. I know many of my friends and relatives have been coming down with asthma late in their lives, which is generally unheard of as the symptons usually appear in childhood/teenage years.

Again Pines, dont be so early to jump in with your opinions which I didnt start this thread in order to seek. I have contacted a number of government bodies to discuss the spraying but have recieved no response, so therefore I am asking for other avenues to explore.

This is where we disagree. It's a discussion board, and in your original post you claimed "I have been suffering from severe respatory problems recently as a result of the spraying." That statement, containing two very controversial ideas, is open for discussion.

Firstly, I am very skeptical that there is any such spraying. Secondly, nothing you have said yet suggests any rational connection between your respiratory problems (or anyone else's) and the alleged spraying, which is unproven (at best).

I don't believe anyone is unsympathetic to your respiratory health problems, and I certainly am not. However, I am firmly convinced that there may be better avenues to explore in order to get to the bottom of the health issue than by blaming it on something that is IMHO unprovable and (to boot) a conspiracy theory.

djpbarry

zippy 99 wrote: »

I however have my own opinons, which would be that I am the victim of aerial spraying, along with my fellow neighbours in Dublin.

And therein lies the problem. You have formed an OPINION based on your interpretation of reality.

zippy 99 wrote: »

I know many of my friends and relatives have been coming down with asthma late in their lives, which is generally unheard of as the symptons usually appear in childhood/teenage years.

That is not necessarily true. Asthma may result from genetic causes, environmental causes, or even a combination of the two. Fossil fuel related allergenic air pollution has been repeatedly associated with increased asthma morbidity and has a suggested association with asthma development.

Zulu

Zippy who do you think is doing this? The air corps? Aer Lingus? Ryan Air? or Aer Arann?
Or are you suggesting that air traffic control in Ireland is letting another country do this?

This should be in conspiracy theories.