Cork hurling and football dispute

Tazdedub

Just wondering what everyone thinks about the going ons in the Cork GAA. Are the players right to with hold their services?

My opinion is that they are right in the action that they are taking. The county board I think have handled this the wrong way. I dont think that the county board should just appoint who they want to be manager without first going through to see who is the best person for the job.

I do feel sorry for the managers though who are just caught in the middle of this problem. I think if I was the manager of any of the Cork Senior teams I would just walk away from the job until something is sorted. I would say that at this stage it would be impossible for the managers to continue in the position even after something is sorted as they may feel that the players aren't playing for them.

future_plans

Tazdedub wrote: »

I dont think that the county board should just appoint who they want to be manager without first going through to see who is the best person for the job.

It's not really about the managers appointment. It is the fact that the county board decide who the managers selectors are going to be and not the manager himself.

The whole siatuation is ridiculous but I'm sure will be sorted out come the Spring. Everybody seems to be digging in and playing a waiting game at the moment.

mollybird

yes i think for the moment they are right to dig their heels in. with donal og leading them on they hopefully will get what they are looking for. did anyone hear any rumours as to who may become captain this year? but i guess with them being on strike and playing no matches kinda hard to say. id personally love donal og to captain. think he would be great. he has such a presence about him.

Tableman

Its impossible to see how this issue is going to be resolved. There's no way that they can meet halfway. Either you let the manager pick his selectors or not. I have a feeling that the county board might hold out on this one and win.

Meathlass

Anyone think the Cork Meath league opener on Sunday will go ahead? I'm travelling up from Tipp but need to know in advance to arrange stuff. Will Meath get full points if Cork pull out

Tomthepost

Meathlass wrote: »

Anyone think the Cork Meath league opener on Sunday will go ahead? I'm travelling up from Tipp but need to know in advance to arrange stuff. Will Meath get full points if Cork pull out

Given the fact the match is scheduled for Saturday night anyway chances are you might have missed it anyway:D
The latest I heard is that it might just be rearranged.
You might be better off watching the Div 1 game on Setanta anyway.

Meathlass

Tomthepost wrote: »

Given the fact the match is scheduled for Saturday night anyway chances are you might have missed it anyway:D
The latest I heard is that it might just be rearranged.
You might be better off watching the Div 1 game on Setanta anyway.

opps thanks for that, I was sure it was on Sunday! Saturday suits me much better though. Always go to Meath games though it's a pain when I live so far away from the county.

D. Coughlan

Meathlass wrote: »

opps thanks for that, I was sure it was on Sunday! Saturday suits me much better though. Always go to Meath games though it's a pain when I live so far away from the county.

I very much doubt that the game will be on, it should not be on as long as Teddy Holland is still manager

Tableman

D. Coughlan wrote: »

I very much doubt that the game will be on, it should not be on as long as Teddy Holland is still manager

After Teddy Holland was appointed, didnt the players point out that it was nothing personal against him? So, Why now is there such a big fuss being made of him?

also, I assume that the decision about the selectors was taken by a vote of all the club delegate, yeah? So, really its the players own clubs that have let them down, why didnt they lobby their delegates about the issue before they voted?

I do not agree with a manager having selectors imposed upon him but then I dont agree with a manager bringing in his own mates just because they are his mates. AFAIK, in Galway, Peter Ford didnt get to choose his selectors in the final year.

gucci

Tableman wrote: »

After Teddy Holland was appointed, didnt the players point out that it was nothing personal against him? So, Why now is there such a big fuss being made of him?

also, I assume that the decision about the selectors was taken by a vote of all the club delegate, yeah? So, really its the players own clubs that have let them down, why didnt they lobby their delegates about the issue before they voted?

I do not agree with a manager having selectors imposed upon him but then I dont agree with a manager bringing in his own mates just because they are his mates. AFAIK, in Galway, Peter Ford didnt get to choose his selectors in the final year.

Yeah thats what i dont get, the players gripe is with the county board for imposing this selection rule.....yet it was voted in by THEIR club representatives! Surely they have input and influence within theyre clubs so why didnt they go through these routes to change/influence the decision from the outset?

No squads have been announced yet because there are no selectors, so how does everyone know theyre on strike? Could the cork county board do like the american football bosses and hire scabs to fill the position for the opening games?

What the county board are doing here is not draconian or anything like that, the players went on strike couple of years back and are now very well looked after regards playing equipment etc. but i dont think this dispute carries the same issues for me. And calling in the Labour Relations Commission, come on lads!!! Get real!! Think of the legitimate problems many people have with work and employment that genuinely need these facilities!!

Should the county board be punished for the actions of they're player by relegation etc from the league? Well if the fail to play the 1st, 2nd 3rd games and beyond then they should loose the points, no doubt about it. No re-fixtures!!

MGrah

I think people tend to take a very simplistic view of this situation and seem to think that it is simply about who appoints the manager's selectors. In my opinion the manager should be free to choose his own team, but this dispute at this point has very little to do with that. It is now about how decisions relating to the running to the county team are made. They have in the past always been made by the county board. This group of players is trying to shift that. Below is what I posted back in November in another thread that no one replied to at the time....

I still think this is a very dangerous and selfish precedent that the Cork players are attempting to set. There is a mechanism in place that will allow them to change this IF (and I stress the IF) the majority of the Cork GAA at large is in favour of it changing. If the GAA public does not support them then they should not be able to change it under any circumstances. They cannot be allowed to force this through by refusing to play. I for one, if I was a club player in Cork would be only too happy to offer to 'scab' on this because it's a stupid dispute that the players have taken way too far, and they really deserve to be left with egg on their faces. If Donal Og decided to go to his club's AGM and put forward a motion to have this changed, with the support of the players I have no doubt that it would get through. But instead they decided to make this childish stand that has lead to a massive waste of a lot of peoples time and effort, not to mention public funds if the labour relations folks get involved.

Let me start by saying that I fully agree with the idea of a manager being able to choose his own selectors...

but

...I also think that the precedent arising from the Cork players' strike is very worrying. The issue is very different from the GPA strike threat because the GPA strike is based on player welfare (put whatever spin you want on that) etc. and the players have a right to air their views. On the other hand what the players are attempting to do in Cork is to overturn a decision taken at county board level and effectively interfere with how the GAA in that county is administrated.
The GAA is essentially a democratic organisation, where all full members have an equal say in the running of the organisation, through their club. Every intercounty player has the opportunity to put forward motions at their clubs AGM for consideration that will be brought forward to the county board if they are supported.
A group of 60 elite players deciding that they want to overturn a decision taken by the county board (a board that represents thousands of players and members) is simply wrong, no matter how well intentioned the matter itself might be. We are already seeing a situation where the elite of the GPA are focussing almost exclusively (in public anyway) on their own interests and the 'average joe' club player is an irrelevance at best to that group. This type of action whereby a small number of individuals who hold a balance of power can dictate to the rest of the organisation how things run is not a happy road.
What next? County players dictating the scheduling of the club season, re-directing funds from local development to the county team?

Floppybits

In my humble opinion surely the County Board should appoint the manager but the manager then appoints his backroom staff. I know from a Dublin point of view that when the Dubs are looking for a manager, they people interested in the position apply but and if they are called for an interview they have to have their backroom staff picked and then the county board makes the decision. If my memory serves me correctly this is why Caffery got the job over Mullins because Mullins didnt have a backroom setup and no real plan in place if he got the job.

Anyway back to Cork, hopefully this gets sorted. Someone above mentioned that the players should have gone to their clubs to vote against it, but even the players clubs did vote against it, would that be enough votes to stop it? Maybe the clubs without players on the Cork panels out number those with players on the panel. I dont know how the county board works but I imagine this was how they got the motion through.

However I know think this dispute has gone a lot deeper than when it first started and now both sides have dug their heels and neither want to be seen backing down. Will be interesting to see if Cork will still be in the league on thursday.

MGrah

Floppybits wrote: »

Anyway back to Cork, hopefully this gets sorted. Someone above mentioned that the players should have gone to their clubs to vote against it, but even the players clubs did vote against it, would that be enough votes to stop it? Maybe the clubs without players on the Cork panels out number those with players on the panel. I dont know how the county board works but I imagine this was how they got the motion through.

This is exactly the nub of the issue Floppybits. If the players' clubs do not have enough votes to change this and the other clubs want the county board to appoint selectors for whatever reason, then the players have no basis for arguing otherwise - that's democracy, and the GAA is supposedly a democratic organisation. Who chooses the selectors is one small part of how the whole county team set up is run. The clubs have to be the ones who decide how these things are run, not the current crop of county players who may be gone from the scene at any time. The clubs in Cork voted in 2007 (I think) to change this to having the selectors appointed by the County Board, and as I said above 60 elite players have no right to question the democratic will of the Cork GAA clubs just because they happen to be on the county team.

Opplock

I don't understand why Teddy Holland is staying on. He steps down and acts graciously - he is appreciated by everyone and nobody feels ill will towards him. Why would you stay when you are not wanted and when you are even inadvertently the cause of prolonging the dispute. Where's his own dignity and pride in this?

http://www.myguideireland.com/blog/cork-hurling-and-football-crisis-who-cares/

Orizio

Tableman wrote: »

After Teddy Holland was appointed, didnt the players point out that it was nothing personal against him? So, Why now is there such a big fuss being made of him?

also, I assume that the decision about the selectors was taken by a vote of all the club delegate, yeah? So, really its the players own clubs that have let them down, why didnt they lobby their delegates about the issue before they voted?

I do not agree with a manager having selectors imposed upon him but then I dont agree with a manager bringing in his own mates just because they are his mates. AFAIK, in Galway, Peter Ford didnt get to choose his selectors in the final year.

Because Holland knew the players had a problem with the selection process, and yet still took the job. They saw it as Holland siding with the county board against the players. Basically Holland knew when he took the appointment that the players were going to be unhappy.

Holland needs to go. What ever about this 'democratically elected' nonsense (the country board basically ignored the 60 most important GAA people's expressed wishes on the situation - how democratic is that?) Holland is now a manager with no team. He needs to go, and if he takes some of the dinosaurs on the county board with him all the better.

MGrah

Orizio wrote: »

Holland needs to go. What ever about this 'democratically elected' nonsense (the country board basically ignored the 60 most important GAA people's expressed wishes on the situation - how democratic is that?)

OMG! How democratic is that? In a word? Very

It's democracy Orizio - i.e. there is no 60 people who are more important than anyone else - all members have an equal say through their club, like I said before there is a perfectly good mechanism for having this changed within 12 months that the players could easily push through if they have the support of the clubs, which they would get.
Your opinion (in my opinion) backs up the warped view that this group of players seem to have that they are somehow more important than the thousands of kids/club players playing every week, just like Donal Og's other little passtime. The attitude of the current crop of intercounty (not just in core) stinks. They seem more than willing to sell out the future of the organisation and the outlet for kids etc for the sake of getting more power for themselves (and ultimately to line their pockets). Don't be fooled into thinking that this is about the selectors for a second. Donal and the rest know exactly how to go about getting this changed if they wanted to - this is all about a group of players trying to break create a situation that allows them to make demands of the administration and have this threat hanging over them.

hawker

Mgrah,

How you can claim that this dispute has anything at all to do with money? Thats an absolutely ridicilous claim to make. How will Cork players benefit financially from the Cork manager picking his own selectors?

The kernel of this problem is the Cork Co Board and a certian individual on that board. In 2002 the Cork players made themselves unavailable because of the conditions they found themselves playing and training under. Obviously they had their critics then, and duly won the next two All Ireland hurling finals.

This has nothing to do with payment or prestige. They are looking after the future of Cork hurling and football. I don't believe there is anything like democracy in Cork gaa circles when it's being dictated to by one man who wants the power he lost back in 2002 back. And this is his way of getting it.

MGrah

hawker wrote: »

Mgrah,

How you can claim that this dispute has anything at all to do with money? Thats an absolutely ridicilous claim to make. How will Cork players benefit financially from the Cork manager picking his own selectors?

The kernel of this problem is the Cork Co Board and a certian individual on that board. In 2002 the Cork players made themselves unavailable because of the conditions they found themselves playing and training under. Obviously they had their critics then, and duly won the next two All Ireland hurling finals.

This has nothing to do with payment or prestige. They are looking after the future of Cork hurling and football. I don't believe there is anything like democracy in Cork gaa circles when it's being dictated to by one man who wants the power he lost back in 2002 back. And this is his way of getting it.

Hawker - I'll concede to you that that individual (and I can be pretty confident we're both talking about the same person) can make things difficult. Also I would have absolutely 100% supported the Cork players in the dispute over the conditions a few years back. This is a different matter though. In my opinion the subject of it (i.e. the selector's appointment) is irrelevant and it boils down to a simple power struggle between the players and the administrators. The selectors' appointment is a smokescreen, and like I said before this was up for debate only last year at the county board level and the clubs passed the motion to make this change - where were the players then? It's not up to the inter-county players to attempt to overturn decisions that have been taken by the clubs. Inter-county players come and go, and for what it's worth, the inter-county game is not the raison d'etre for the association, the clubs and their activities are.

There are certain things within the association that are decided by the way the clubs (and more importantly their members) want the association to be run and a small group of individuals do not have the right to question that because they are in a priviledged position. The point I made above regarding money is that I cannot believe that there is not another motive behind this, and that was the most obvious one to me. You might have a point though that this may be aimed at breaking the influence that that individual has over the club delegates etc in Cork, and if that's the case I would soften my opinion on it, but I would say that if that is the case the players should come out and say it openly rather than trying to undermine the entire democratic process that exists in all counties. If they are successful in this it sets a dangerous precedent that would mean that the Intercounty players would be able to force their own agenda at the expense of the clubs, and from my point of view that can't be allowed to happen.

Orizio

OMG! How democratic is that? In a word? Very

Disregarding the players opinions on the subject was democratic? Was it smart?

It's democracy Orizio - i.e. there is no 60 people who are more important than anyone else

Nonsense, in a practicing democracy some people's opinions carry more weight(in this case Sean Og's opinion is more important then mine), and some have more power with relation to decision making(the county board over me).

The idea that you and I have the same opinion as a player working his ass off on the pitch to entertain us and do us proud is preposterous. We have a right to sharing our opinion for sure - and it has worth - but not as much as those on the panel or even county board. Although, when I hear people like you hammering on about amatuer's players greed and hunger for power, I can't help think some should have no opinion at all.

Regardless this situation is about giving the Cork GAA the same rights that the rest of the country has - the ability of the head coach to choose his own selectors. Common sense to the Irish and Cork people, not so to the Cork county board and Teddy Holland. Its not as if the county board has been ambushed here - they were aware of the player's opinion and likely reaction and went ahead regardless. The people of Cork, at least know who is to blame.

MGrah

Orizio wrote: »

Disregarding the players opinions on the subject was democratic? Was it smart?

You're missing the point here completely - no one ignored the players opinions, they had just a much say as anyone else, they either chose not to do anything about it or they were out voted.

Nonsense, in a practicing democracy some people's opinions carry more weight(in this case Sean Og's opinion is more important then mine), and some have more power with relation to decision making(the county board over me).

The idea that you and I have the same opinion as a player working his ass off on the pitch to entertain us and do us proud is preposterous. We have a right to sharing our opinion for sure - and it has worth - but not as much as those on the panel or even county board. Although, when I hear people like you hammering on about amatuer's players greed and hunger for power, I can't help think some should have no opinion at all.

This is nonsense my friend. I'm not going to get into a semantic debate with you as to what the word democracy means, but when I used it previously I mean that every member of the GAA has (in theory) an equal say in the running of the organisation and that once that decision has been made it should be accepted and respected by those who thought otherwise. For the record, my personal view on this is that a county manager should be allowed to appoint his selectors, however in this case the clubs voted on what way it should be done, and for whatever reasons they had chose otherwise. My issue is with the fact that the players have chosen not to respect that decision.

Regardless this situation is about giving the Cork GAA the same rights that the rest of the country has - the ability of the head coach to choose his own selectors. Common sense to the Irish and Cork people, not so to the Cork county board and Teddy Holland. Its not as if the county board has been ambushed here - they were aware of the player's opinion and likely reaction and went ahead regardless. The people of Cork, at least know who is to blame.

Cork GAA has exactly the same rights as the rest of the country - the ability to determine how it's organisation is run. Cork GAA (no one else) has chosen to appoint a full management team, rather than a manager and have him choose his team. Now 60 members of Cork GAA (out of I'd imagine tens of thousands) have decided that they're taking the ball home if everyone else doesn't change their minds.
We won't agree on this Orizio, I'm pretty sure of that, and the reason is that we don't view the GAA in the same way. I see it as belonging to it's members first and foremost to the club players/administrators who provide and use the facilities every week. These are the people who have the right to say how things should be run. Some of those players due to their ability go on to an elite level, and yes, they do provide entertainment to the rest of us, but I think it's fair payback for what the association has given them in order to get to where they are. I don't think that they should be given any special rights where they conflict with the views of everyone else, just because they play at that level. Judging just from your comments I would say you view it the other way around, that these players have earned the right to push their decisions on the association where they impact the team. I can understand that view point, but you'll never convince me that it's right.

scaramanga

Cork Players to return to Field under certain Conditions.

The continuing controversy raging in the Rebel County took on a new twist today. In a statement released just after lunchtime the Cork Senior Inter County Footballers and Hurlers have issued a statement indicating that they would retake the playing field in the red jersey if the following ten conditions were met;

1. All inter-county players receive an apology from the Cork County Board for the embarrassment caused to the People of Cork for this "Laurel & Hardy" mess.

2. That all Cork matches home and away are played in Páirc Uí Chaoimh and no away supporters allowed admission to the ground.

3. The GAA rename the Sam Maguire Cup the Jack Lynch Cup.

4. The Kerry football team will play in the Ulster Championship instead of the Munster championship.

5. The Cork Hurling team get automatic qualification to the All-Ireland semi-final every year.

6. That the illegitimate Football Manager Ted Holland, stands up at a meeting and admits he is illegitimate (that'll show the Ba*%$rd)

7. The government declare Cork city the official Capital of Ireland.

8. All future managers of the Cork teams have to undergo rigorous Psychological Assessment & in-depth Personality Profiling to see if they are up to the job. (This will take the form of having to spend 8 hours locked in a room listening to Donal Og Cusack & Sean Og OHalpin, if they survive this they will be considered)

9. Each player is to get 4 packets of Walkers Cheese & Onion and 2 bottles of 7-up after each match.

10. Frank Murphy is to keep his job if he desists with the embarrassing comb-over.


Labour Relations Chief Executive Kieran Mulvey commented that "these demands seemed reasonable but that the only sticking point could be Frank Murphy's hair".

Gerry1995

It is my opinion is that even though I understand where the player are coming from, it is still the Co Board who select the Manager. The manager either accepts the Terms and conditions or not. If he is willing to take the job then so be it. Apart from that I would love to be a fly on the wall at the first match with the current football team and Teddy Holland, imagine the team talk!!!!

wow sierra

scaramanga wrote: »

Cork Players to return to Field under certain Conditions.

The continuing controversy raging in the Rebel County took on a new twist today. In a statement released just after lunchtime the Cork Senior Inter County Footballers and Hurlers have issued a statement indicating that they would retake the playing field in the red jersey if the following ten conditions were met;

1. All inter-county players receive an apology from the Cork County Board for the embarrassment caused to the People of Cork for this "Laurel & Hardy" mess.

2. That all Cork matches home and away are played in Páirc Uí Chaoimh and no away supporters allowed admission to the ground.

3. The GAA rename the Sam Maguire Cup the Jack Lynch Cup.

4. The Kerry football team will play in the Ulster Championship instead of the Munster championship.

5. The Cork Hurling team get automatic qualification to the All-Ireland semi-final every year.

6. That the illegitimate Football Manager Ted Holland, stands up at a meeting and admits he is illegitimate (that'll show the Ba*%$rd)

7. The government declare Cork city the official Capital of Ireland.

8. All future managers of the Cork teams have to undergo rigorous Psychological Assessment & in-depth Personality Profiling to see if they are up to the job. (This will take the form of having to spend 8 hours locked in a room listening to Donal Og Cusack & Sean Og OHalpin, if they survive this they will be considered)

9. Each player is to get 4 packets of Walkers Cheese & Onion and 2 bottles of 7-up after each match.

10. Frank Murphy is to keep his job if he desists with the embarrassing comb-over.


Labour Relations Chief Executive Kieran Mulvey commented that "these demands seemed reasonable but that the only sticking point could be Frank Murphy's hair".

:D:D:D:D:D

Thats hillarious. You have to laugh don't you. God, I'm from Roscommon and maybe heading for all straight defeats in the league - (i hope not but it aint looking good) - but still I couldn't imagine life without GAA and I feel really sorry for the Cork fans.

hawkwing

Why are they so afraid of the evil selectors which may be picked by the county board, what are these guys going to do so differently than a manager picking his own??a level playing field they want and they are better looked after than the other 31 counties,in a couple of years sean og and donal will be past it anyway but now they can write books when they retire cos they have a controversy to talk about ( i hope nobody buys them though!)

future_plans

Opplock wrote: »

I don't understand why Teddy Holland is staying on. He steps down and acts graciously - he is appreciated by everyone and nobody feels ill will towards him. Why would you stay when you are not wanted and when you are even inadvertently the cause of prolonging the dispute. Where's his own dignity and pride in this?

At this stage I'd be inclined to agree with you. I can't believe that under the proposals put to the players last night that Teddy was still the football manager. He has to step down now. Even if he believes he's in the right, surely it's for the good of the county. He won't win against the players. Even if there are no Cork teams in the league (probably) or in the championship (God forbid), the fans will stay loyal in the large part to this core bunch of players. Holland has to put his hand up and go now. I can't see any other way.

hawker

hawkwing wrote: »

Why are they so afraid of the evil selectors which may be picked by the county board, what are these guys going to do so differently than a manager picking his own??a level playing field they want and they are better looked after than the other 31 counties,in a couple of years sean og and donal will be past it anyway but now they can write books when they retire cos they have a controversy to talk about ( i hope nobody buys them though!)

You obviously have some problem with Donal Og following your ridicilous comment another another thread. Try lookin at the problem without that chip on your shoulder.

Holland should step down. That to me, is the major sticking point now.

hawkwing

hawker wrote: »

You obviously have some problem with Donal Og following your ridicilous comment another another thread. Try lookin at the problem without that chip on your shoulder.

Holland should step down. That to me, is the major sticking point now.

Yes,he appears to be the ring leader in all of this,a Brendan Cummins of Cork--dictating the way everything should be done. Anyone wearing red contact lenses has serious issues in my opinion--besides this was never anything to do with the hurler's in the first place until MR GPA lost his bottle (of sports drink)--like the brian o'driscoll sketch on gift grub..

hawker

Jeez, It's a pity that the Cork Gaa didn't know about you prior to Kieran Mulvey from the LRC intervening. You could have solved the dispute with all your superior knowledge of the situation!!

You shouldn't really comment on issues you know s.f.a. about.

Opplock

As of this morning it looks like we won't have a Cork team in the championship not to mind the league. If Teddy Holland steps down, they will find a way to park the dispute until October. If he doesn't the dispute goes on. It's as simple as that.

rebeve

There is no democracy in Cork Gaa . It is ruled by 1 man , who by the way cant be sacked . If any delegate votes against the wishes of the "board" its noted , and guess what happens next time your club wants a match postponed or deferred game . All answers to " The MAIN MAN care of the Cork County Board " This strike has nothing to do with football managers or selectors . The MAIN MAN got a kick up the arse in 2002 , and this was pay back time . The only problem for him was that this set of players have principils ,which is something he wouldn`t be used to dealing with
Well done Frank ,you never even saw it coming .

Well done lads proud of ye

hawkwing

hawker wrote: »

Jeez, It's a pity that the Cork Gaa didn't know about you prior to Kieran Mulvey from the LRC intervening. You could have solved the dispute with all your superior knowledge of the situation!!

You shouldn't really comment on issues you know s.f.a. about.

Tell us what you know then?

bill_ashmount

hawkwing wrote: »

Yes,he appears to be the ring leader in all of this,a Brendan Cummins of Cork--dictating the way everything should be done. Anyone wearing red contact lenses has serious issues in my opinion--besides this was never anything to do with the hurler's in the first place until MR GPA lost his bottle (of sports drink)--like the brian o'driscoll sketch on gift grub..

Stop!!! Do the other players not have minds of their own or is it that you think he is bullying them? He's not a ringleader, but he does act as a spokesman

junkster12345

these cork players should just get out on the field and get the league and championship over with, and deal with all the 7yr old stuff when the time is right, at the end of the day its the cork supporters that are gonna loose out, sure whats another year without the mccARTHY cup, us here in waterford have lived without it for the last 50yrs !

scaramanga

rebeve wrote: »

There is no democracy in Cork Gaa . It is ruled by 1 man , who by the way cant be sacked . If any delegate votes against the wishes of the "board" its noted , and guess what happens next time your club wants a match postponed or deferred game . All answers to " The MAIN MAN care of the Cork County Board " This strike has nothing to do with football managers or selectors . The MAIN MAN got a kick up the arse in 2002 , and this was pay back time . The only problem for him was that this set of players have principils ,which is something he wouldn`t be used to dealing with
Well done Frank ,you never even saw it coming .

Well done lads proud of ye

is it all down to frank though? or the board in general,i know the issue bout club games during the summer was brought up but thought this all started over the manager being able to pick own selectors

future_plans

junkster12345 wrote: »

these cork players should just get out on the field and get the league and championship over with, and deal with all the 7yr old stuff when the time is right, at the end of the day its the cork supporters that are gonna loose out, sure whats another year without the mccARTHY cup, us here in waterford have lived without it for the last 50yrs !

We could do with a year off to be honest. We've had a busy few years. A lot of mileage done!!:D

It did start with the manager and selectors (Also read that Justin Mac and mr Body are inclined to sway with the players way of thinking this morning but that's irrelevant now). But Holland went ahead and undermined the players by going ahead and accepting the job when he knew there were problems there to be ironed out first. Really poor judgement. I can't see how anything will come to pass while he's in that position.

I think I'm repeating myself....

redspider

I'm not from Cork, (or Kerry!) so I'm neutral.

I think there's a few things going on. There are some 'personalities' involved in terms of the board, etc, and 'history' between the various sides, but the main thing is that there is a power struggle with the players wanting to have more influence and control. This is a key aspect, and with the success of the GPA 'deal' and the Cork players getting better conditions a few years back, this gives the players more ammunition and confidence to take these issues on and to go for the strike (nuclear option). At some point though, if the others think it has gone too far, the strike will just have to run its course if neither side backs down. That is definitely a possibility for the league now.

But this has happened in other sports, NFL, US Baseball, for example albeit different circumstances yet the same power struggles playing out, and I seem to recall reading about several situations down through the years, mainly the early ones I think, where counties withdrew from the championship for one petty reason after another. I think Kerry were a proponent of it.

I think the GAA HQ needs to get a grip and have the same rules for all counties, in terms of who selects managers, who selects selectors, who selects players, etc, how boards are made up, tenures, etc. Once this framework is in place, then the players can decide if they want to play ball, literally, or want to throw their toys out of the pram when a decision goes against their liking.

With the recent victory of the GPA, these players wont back down so it will be a case of push coming to shove I think. The GAA may also see it as a dangerous precedent, and will likely back the Cork board 100%.

GAA HQ are due to make an announcement today. I think they should state that if Cork aren't in a position to field a team for the next league match, that in fairness to the other counties they will be ejected from the competition. This may focus some of the players minds in terms of being more flexible.

By the way, this is a dispute about the football manager. Having the Hurlers getting involved surely is an indication that it is more to do than just the capability of Teddy Holland. The footballers surely dont need the hurlers to go on strike as well if their situation has real bona fide's and valid concerns.

Lets hear what HQ says today .... this soap, which is what it is, will continue for a while yet, maybe all summer.

Redspider

aidan24326

Opplock wrote: »

As of this morning it looks like we won't have a Cork team in the championship not to mind the league. If Teddy Holland steps down, they will find a way to park the dispute until October. If he doesn't the dispute goes on. It's as simple as that.

It's strange that Holland won't just step aside. There's no point in him being there if the players won't play for him. He will become the demon in all of this even though it wasn't initially his fault.

hawker

hawkwing wrote: »

Tell us what you know then?

I know that Donal Og is not dictating the terms of this dispute. Do you think the likes of Sean Og and Ben O'Connor are puppets for Donal Og? Not likely.

As the posts above suggest, it's a power struggle. The Co Board undermined the trust of the players by appointing Teddy Holland at the outset of the dispute. This was despite the players asking that no manager be appointed until it was settled. Teddy Holland has been a stalwart in Cork for several years. He took the job knowing full well there wwas a side issue to be resolved. He should bite the bullet and resign his position for the sake of GAA in his county.

The losers in all of this are the Cork supporter.

Erin Go Brath

There was a great picture in one of the papers yesterday with a load of supporters marching behind a banner saying 'Fermoy Brigade'. I had to laugh. They're certainly living up to the rebel county moniker down there.

On the whole dispute thing, it looks like it might drag on and Cork will be disqualified from the league. If that is the case I wonder what'll happen next year should they come back.
Will they be relegated, or keep their current divisional status? Anyone know of any precedents?

scaramanga

hawker wrote: »

The losers in all of this are the Cork supporter.

and kerry we wont have out usual warm up game in july if this keeps up:mad:

aidan24326

Erin Go Brath wrote: »

Will they be relegated, or keep their current divisional status? Anyone know of any precedents?

I would imagine they'd have to be relegated.

jmayo

Usually can't stand Cork players and their superior supporters :rolleyes:
but I do agree with the players in this struggle.
(Yes, I have painful memories of 89 and 93 alright and besides have lots of cousins in Kerry )

I do agree that this is power struggle and certain individual(s) trying to get their power back after the last skirmish in 2002.
I don't see it ending happily for them because the GAA administration, be it the one in Cork or the one in HQ, will want to see player power curtailed.
It is a test of strenght and resolve now.

The surprising thing in all this is that Holland is sticking to his post.
Most people would have realised by now that they will never be respected by the players and that they are being used by the board to try and prove a point.
Now he comes out looking like a muppet.

Of course if he really wants a job, he could apply for job with FAI since they do happen to have a team without a manager.

redspider

Its not about Teddy Holland ......

Full statement on behalf of Cork County Board on Cork
Players' Dispute

The Cork County Board of the GAA have stated that it is deeply disappointed that the protracted discussions aimed at resolving the above dispute which has involved Mr Kieran Mulvey, Chairman of the Labour Relations Commission, as an Independent Facilitator, and the Director-General of the GAA, Paraic Duffy, has not resulted in a settlement.

A Memorandum of Understanding, which was accepted at a previous session of the negotiations, was further enhanced with additional proposals from Mr Mulvey and Mr Duffy, which the negotiators on behalf of the Cork County Board accepted as being the basis for a reasonable settlement.

The following key points make up the basis of the proposed agreement between Cork County Board and the players' representatives which was put forward by Kieran Mulvey and Paraic Duffy on 7 February 2008.

A. Future Engagement

1. Establish a consultative committee representative of the Players and The Board (six representatives from each) to meet quarterly to discuss and agree on matters received from either side relative to the players' welfare and interests and issues that arose in 2007. The first meeting shall take place within one month of this agreement.

2. The committee shall be chaired by an independent person agreed by the Mediator.

3. The procedures, minutes and recorded conclusions shall be undertaken and determined by the chairperson.

B. Current Impasse

The Players and the Board both acknowledge that recent events regarding the procedures adopted in appointing a new county senior football coach has led to fundamental differences between them.

Without ascribing any judgement on the relative views of the parties on this matter, and in the interests of achieving an agreeable solution to the current impasse, it is recommended that:

1. Appointments Committee(s) Sept./Oct. 2008

The County Board negotiating team will recommend to County Committee 2008 that the Appointments Committee(s) of September/October 2008 consist of seven members. This will include two current (2008) players and five others determined by the County Board.

2. Review in September/October 2008 of method of appointment of selectors

The County Board negotiating team will recommend that the Executive Committee recommends to the County Committee that the appointed coaches in September/October 2008 be given the right to choose their own selectors. This situation will be monitored by the proposed Consultative Committee under the Independent Chairman.


3. Current Football Management

Notwithstanding that the senior football coach and selectors have been appointed by the County Board for a two-year term, it is recommended that these appointments be reviewed by the Appointments Committee at the end of Cork's involvement in the 2008 Championship.

4. Player Representation on County Committee

A players' representative shall be appointed on the county committee (Board), with full speaking rights.

C. Relationships

A number of 'relationship' issues have emerged in the course of the current standoff between the parties. Inevitably in such a dispute, and with its high-profile nature, certain positions are adopted and articulated in the promotion or defence of decisions taken by either side.

In order to surmount these immediate difficulties it is agreed that:

1. An additional selector be appointed to the panel of football selectors and that individual would have the support of the players (but would not be a former manager or member of the previous management team).

2. The current team manager to ensure player engagement on team performance on a regular basis throughout the league/championship.

3. No discriminatory/disciplinary action will take place against any player on the current panel in regard to this current dispute.

4. No further adverse media comment is made relating to any person (player or administrator).

5. Both sides to engage immediately on building a new and positive working relationship between them.

6. To give effect to the above, a suitably qualified independent person shall be appointed by the mediator to work with the Board and the Players to address some existing issues between the sides so as to resolve internal relationships at Board/Player level with the objective of eliminating differences on operational issues which may exist between them.

A very key aspect of the Recommendations was that notwithstanding that the Senior Football Coach and Selectors had been appointed by the County Board for a two-year term, it was recommended that these appointments be reviewed by the Appointments Committee at the end of Cork's involvement in the 2008 Championship.

It is important to note that the players during negotiations were prepared to accept Teddy Holland as Coach for the year 2008, with a review at the end of the Championship Season, but the Players' Representatives then indicated that they wanted the four Selectors appointed by the Board to be removed. The removal of the four Selectors was unacceptable to the Co. Board Negotiating team.

Ted Holland & Senior Football Selectors

The County Board states that both Teddy Holland and his Selectors were democratically appointed in accordance with the Rules of the Association.

It deeply regrets the orchestrated media campaign which has personalised the issue in relation to Ted Holland. He is a decent, honourable man who has given long and distinguished service to the GAA.

It was conceded by the players involved in negotiations that Ted Holland's competence to fulfil his role as Coach is not in question.

The County Board fully supports the appointed Coach and Selectors and calls for the campaign against them to cease.

The Board appeals to the players to consider again the Memorandum of Understanding prepared by Messrs Mulvey and Duffy and to put the proposals therein to their colleagues for decision.

The County Board expresses its deep appreciation to Mr Kieran Mulvey and Mr Paraic Duffy for their selfless and trojan efforts to bring a resolution to the dispute and for their continued interest.

Roibeard O Riain,
P.R.O. Cork County Board

redspider

The players respond.

It is about Teddy Holland ....

Cork footballers and hurlers have stated that they are furious with the way that recent discussions have been treated by the county board and with the board's spin, misinformation and leaks.

They have reiterated that they desperately want to play for the county but won't do so until both Teddy Holland and the selectors are out of office.

It seems certain that Sunday's hurling league opener between Cork and Kilkenny will be postponed and unless there is a resolution of the dispute next week Cork will then be excluded from both leagues and relegated for next season.

In a statement released to the Irish Examiner last night, the Cork players strongly rejected the claim that they would play for Holland, insisting: 'We are furious at the spin and misinformation put out by the board, which said that we would accept Teddy Holland as football manager - which is totally and utterly untrue.

'There have been a number of attempts to split the players throughout this process, which have failed. Our position is and always has been: we are totally united in our opposition to Teddy Holland and his selectors and to the system recently adopted.'

This is getting tedious. At this stage neutrals are browned off and are caring less and less about either party or whether Cork compete at all.

Do us all a favour, and put a cork in it!

Redspider

future_plans

I'd like to know who, if anybody, has been advising the County board on this. Their handling of the situation has been totally incompetent and farcical! Every step they have taken has only further deteriorated the situation. Whether the motion on the selectors was passed by a club majority or not is relevant at this stage. Their handling of everything since then has been nothing short of disasterous. Heads are going to have to roll before this one is over. And to the detriment of Cork Football and Hurling, probably on both sides.

I read somewhere last week that teams were complaining in the lower divisions that if Cork are relagated, then that effectively means there is one less promotion place in that division for the other teams. Fair point I suppose.

Bren1609

I dont' think the rest of the country would be as sympathetic if it were Dublin players going on strike...

Opplock

Things are going from bad to worse. By next week Cork teams will be out of the league. The hurling team will be demoted to Div. 3. Teddy Holland must go - park the dispute until October and let them go fifteen rounds with each other in Pairc Ui Chaoimh then. I'll buy tickets.

future_plans

Bren1609 wrote: »

I dont' think the rest of the country would be as sympathetic if it were Dublin players going on strike...

Strangely, I think there is more sympathy with the Cork Hurlers on this. Strange since it started out as a football issue. So I'm sure if a Dublin Football team had the same track record of achievements over the last 5 or so years and done so in the same manner in which they did it, then they would get the same level of sympathy in a similar situation.

It's just not really comparable at the moment.

Bren1609

There seems to be a recurring theme in cork with players/athletes staging walk outs or strikes. For example:

1. Cork footballers went on strike just a couple of years ago.

2. In 1983 Cork wanted the replay of the All Ireland Semi Final against Dublin played in Cork, which was granted and which Dublin won. Can anyone here tell me when an All Ireland Semi Final was ever played outside Croke Park?

3. In 1987, Cork footballers in the Semi Final of the league against Dublin refused to come out of the dressing room for extra time because they wanted a replay. Dublin came out of the dressing room, the referee threw in the ball and Barney Rock scored a goal into an empty net and the game was awared to Dublin.

4. In 2002, Roy Keane walked out on the Ireland team during the 2002 World Cup.

5. In 2007, Steven Ireland refused to be made available for selection for the Ireland team.

patmac

Bren1609 wrote: »

I dont' think the rest of the country would be as sympathetic if it were Dublin players going on strike...

I have no idea what that statement has to do with this debate, as Cork would be about as popular as Dublin anyway.
I 'heard' that 6 managers were approached before Teddy Holland and refused the position until the issue was cleared up. The only way out is for Holland to resign, but that doesn't seem to be happening. What a sorry mess.

Pat Mustard

I heard the same thing about 5 or 6 other potential managers stepping aside and refusing to accept appointments against the wishes of the players.

Some people mentioned democracy here. Before I get shot down in flames altogether, I think this was in theory, a democratic decision of the Cork County Board, the democratically elected representatives of the Cork clubs. That said, it is the same old fellas who are elected as the club delegates to the County Board, year in, year out. It is pretty much a formality in the order of business at the club AGM. Nobody new stands forward to run for the position of delegate to the County Board.

Therefore, we had the Rule 42 scenario. The ordinary members on the ground in County Cork clubs were in favour of the removal of Rule 42. Club delegates were sent with the club mandate, to vote in favour of the removal of Rule 42. Many of the delegates voted to retain Rule 42, against the mandate of their own clubs. More delegates abstained from voting, again ignoring the club mandates.

So, my point is that the democratically appointed members of the County Board, the club delegates, are not working for the people whom they should represent.

In my opinion, the players should now try to canvass the ordinary club members on the ground to call for an EGM in their local clubs, to appoint delegates to the County Board who are prepared to carry out the mandate of those clubs. Maybe then Cork could field a team for the Munster Championship.

Tis Friday. I'm off.