Fox Hunting debate on the late late

stevoman

This Friday the 11th.
We all know what to do lads. It will be interesting to see how this goes. Please everyone have their mobiles ready to text in and support each other!

foxshooter243

stevoman wrote: »

This Friday the 11th.
We all know what to do lads. It will be interesting to see how this goes. Please everyone have their mobiles ready to text in and support each other!

dead on man..............

bitemybanger

Will do, should be interesting,

Trojan911

stevoman wrote: »

This Friday the 11th.
We all know what to do lads. It will be interesting to see how this goes. Please everyone have their mobiles ready to text in and support each other!

Will do my best to watch it, however I feel the RTE censorship dept will be on overtime & only select texts will be read out that suit RTE. I'm not impressed with the presenter either.

stevoman

Trojan911 wrote: »

Will do my best to watch it, however I feel the RTE censorship dept will be on overtime & only select texts will be read out that suit RTE. I'm not impressed with the presenter either.

Good point. I hope i dont have to be the next person to drive their car through the front of the building in protest of small time irish propaganda.:eek:

Mrs. MacGyver

I'll watch avidly if i'm home from Dublin on time. I grew up woth hunting and I hope it is not banned in Ireland. Hopefully the debate will be balanced and will lead people to form their own views.

lightening

I know Plankety Plank Kenny has a few gundogs (Weimeraners I think) Does he shoot?

Trojan911

Mrs. MacGyver wrote: »

Hopefully the debate will be balanced and will lead people to form their own views.

I hope it will balanced as well & not shut down like it is on forums here everytime it is debated.

I hope to watch it if I can but I'll be working so we'll see. No doubt the feed back will be updated here hopefully with a sensible discussion to look forward to.

EDIT to add: Why not invite a feedback discussion to those who wish to debate it from the other forums. Have it Moderated during an agreed time limit on a set date good to all?

BryanL

i think he's fairly pro hunting in general.But the anti's always come out with tales of woe,blood and things torn apart.
hopefully our spokespeople can do well,fingers crossed.also annoying that the anit's will have as many people there but in reality are a tiny minority compared to active hunters
Bryan

doctor evil

Will be there to watch it.

Wolfhillbilly

Does anyone know who the spokespeople are in behalf of hunting?

AckwelFoley

Does anyone know who the spokespeople are in behalf of hunting?

No, but im certain they've never been to the countryside in their life up until the point that their cannabis deminished brain brought them on the path of Tree hugging.

My issue with these people is they dont know the first thing about foxhunting and or the realities of it.

Look im born and bred in the town, but im also pretty well up on rural life. Ive seen these ppls arguements.

90% UNFOUNDED.

It wasn't me!

He was asking who was on the *PRO*-hunting side.

AckwelFoley

He was asking who was on the *PRO*-hunting side.

hmm.. looks like bed time for me so...

sleep depravation

BryanL

no wolf, but i'd imagine they'll be someone from the hunting association of Ireland not sure about countryside alliance Ireland(they seem a bit provincial to me) i'd like to know how people get on.
lets just hope they are up to the job and sound like normal Irish people and talk sense
Bryan

stevoman

BryanL wrote: »

lets just hope they are up to the job and sound like normal Irish people and talk sense
Bryan

...please god!

Hezz700

BryanL wrote: »

lets just hope they are up to the job and sound like normal Irish people and talk sense
Bryan

I'll keep my finger and toes crossed....

It will probably be Gavin Duffy or someone else from HAI.

I can reopen and send the hunting thread from the equestrian forum over here if you want (and more importantly, if the mods agree)

BryanL

i guess it'd be hard for anyone to keep their heads while talking with anti's but lets hope they keep it cool.I think there is plenty of science to back up what we do,most recently john fitzgerald et al ,were saying that when the results of the 1st national hare survey came out that coursing would be banned.But the study showed healthy hare numbers,the benefit of predator control and a mortality rate during the whole coursing process of .01%(1 in ten thousand)
i think a big thing that is needed is for the various organisations to be able to centrally inform people quickly and cheaply about news and events,ie the NARGC,HAI,CAI,FACE, etc etc
the majority votes fianna fail/gael but yet the greens are running things with regard to hunting and shooting
and in the coming week we should all make the effort to speak to "on the fence people" about hunting and maintaining a healthy enviornment etc
Bryan

bunny shooter

seems to be a "hot" topic in media at the moment ?

cavan shooter

I heard on the radio that the HAI won't partake in the debate on the late late, They are shooting themselves in the foot and should confront the ICABS in open debate.......:(

AckwelFoley

The Late Late show cancelled the debate.

The pro hunting objected to a particular farmer on the anti side from Kilkenny

Villain

I was looking forward to that debate, why the hell would they not take part because of one farmer?

AckwelFoley

Its difficult to say. I dont know, but its got to do wuth the farmer himself and not farmers in general

Villain

Well I'm sure the Pro Hunting group have their reasons but the PR from the decision is not good.

fits

snyper wrote: »

Its difficult to say. I dont know, but its got to do wuth the farmer himself and not farmers in general

I think I've heard of that fellow before, didnt he shoot some hounds who came onto his land a few years ago, and threatened the people on horseback with his shotgun.

les45

Ladies And Gents , the John Fitzgerald mentioned in previous posts is not moi , I am a proud supporter of the Meaths , Tara Harrriers , The Ballymacads ,fishing , shooting , mouse traping etc.

John FitzGerald RD IPSA

I remember that - if it is the one, then there is no point in trying to argue as you won't get anywhere. In situations like that, maybe it is better not to attend. That way, the debate won't be taken as seriously.

My 2 cents.

les45

les45 wrote: »

Ladies And Gents , the John Fitzgerald mentioned in previous posts is not moi , I am a proud supporter of the Meaths , Tara Harrriers , The Ballymacads ,fishing , shooting , mouse traping etc.

John FitzGerald RD IPSA

Mouse trapping?? YOU BAST*RD!!

Sparks

Trojan911 wrote: »

I hope it will balanced as well & not shut down like it is on forums here everytime it is debated.

That's probably because using the word "debate" to describe what happens every time this topic comes up on boards is a repugnant thing to do to the English language...

Sparks

Deleted User wrote: »

Mouse trapping?? YOU BAST*RD!!

Especially the way he does it.

AckwelFoley

fits wrote: »

I think I've heard of that fellow before, didnt he shoot some hounds who came onto his land a few years ago, and threatened the people on horseback with his shotgun.

Well if that was the case, hed be great to have on the anti side.

..."So you are against animal cruelty?.. but you leave buckshot pellets into dogs"

Irony

fits

My Sister in Law hunts with the Kilmogannys... She said there were loads of children out that day, and this fellow was discharging rounds from his shotgun! Nice Guy!
I think he was pretty much kicked out of the IFA down there too.

From the Irish Times, Feb 7th, 2003

Gardai are investigating a confrontation between farmers in Callan, Co Kilkenny, and members of a local fox hunt.

Shots were fired in two separate incidents leading to the death of a number of hounds belonging to the Kilmoganny Fox Harriers, based in the south of the county.

In the second incident, over 20 cartridges were discharged from a double-barrelled shotgun by the owner of the gun, Mr Philip Lynch, Mallardstown, Callan.

Mr Lynch claimed yesterday to have hit and wounded a number of dogs as they came out of a wood and chased a fox.

A former chairman of the Irish Farmers' Association in Kilkenny, Mr Lynch said he also attempted to shoot the fox the hounds were chasing but missed it.

He said his actions were prompted by his desire to save animals which were in an adjoining field where the dogs were headed in pursuit of the fox.

Mr Lynch also claimed he heard a number of shots after he fired and understood the hunt was putting down a number of animals. He believed the number to be four or five.

"These people are not abiding by the Country Code agreed with landowners and signed by all groups using the land, including the hunts," he claimed.

The master of the Kilmoganny Fox Harriers, Mr Ivan Dowley, denied Mr Lynch's version of events and said only two hounds were missing.

He could not say if other animals were injured during the hunt and no dogs were put down.

He did not comment on allegations the hunt had entered land where landowners had expressly forbidden it to enter.

A spokesman for the Garda said they were called to an incident outside Callan between 2.30 p.m and 3 p.m on Wednesday afternoon.

He said they were investigating a report that a number of farm animals had been worried by dogs.

The spokesman said inquiries were continuing and would not comment on any details.

Over 40 farmers in the Callan area made it clear some time ago they did not want horses or dogs on their lands and placed advertisements in the local newspaper, the Kilkenny People, stating their lands were preserved.

The first incident occurred at Pollock, Callan, where shots were fired in the air after hounds from the hunt were identified close to pens where sheep were lambing on the farm of Mr Terry Audoire.

The hunt master, Mr Dowley, said the incident had been blown out of all proportion and the hunt would issue a statement in due course. He declined to comment until the statement.

The secretary of the IFA in Kilkenny, Mr Syl Ryan, Graignamanagh, said he was deeply concerned at what happened and would be trying to resolve the matter through a local liaison committee set up to deal with such incidents. He said due care and consideration should be shown by both sides.

johngalway

There was a pro-hunting spokesman on Newstalk yesterday, forgive me if I get any of this wrong but going on bad memory. He said RTE had asked them to put together a debating "team" but then they had called back asking if someone else other than himself could go. I think the pro-hunting side objected to RTE picking and chosing who they sent forward for the debate.

Can't remember what he said about the KK farmer to be honest. I DO remember the anti hunting side said there were many many incidents of hounds being shot by farmers. The pro-hunting side said that there was just one case, shot by the particular KK farmer in question.

Not much point, I find, in listening to RTE for details about a programme scrapped by RTE. Independent stations will broadcast less skewed facts.

What a farce.

cavan shooter

I am aware of a hound being shot by a farmer in cavan, in fairness the hound took off through a field of sheep, by all accounts the farmer thought it was worrying the sheep. He apologised to the lads because of the mistake and actually felt bad about it. By the way there was no anomosity on either part.

I don't hunt on horseback but use hounds to go after foxes, I find it a struggle to explain to the hounds that they have to desist from chasing the fox at the following boundaries (I feel they get confused when I start showing them the land boundaries on the map):D

If the fox gets through the line of guns, those hounds could be gone to Dublin before they stop.

Villain

Sounds to like Mr Lynch has some merit in his actions.

Banjax

At the HAI meeting last night in Cork, it was explained that due to RTE picking and choosing who could be on the debate panel, they decided not to attend. Apparently very short notice was given of this change of events.

Phillip Lynch shot dogs, and over the heads of children on ponies during that incident. Since then he's been a high profile member of the ICAB's cabal.

It wouldn't be much of a debate in anycase, neither side was going to stand up in the middle of it and shout "the scales have fallen from my eyes!!" and convert on the spot.

Sparks

It wouldn't be much of a debate in anycase, neither side was going to stand up in the middle of it and shout "the scales have fallen from my eyes!!" and convert on the spot.

This isn't the point of a debate (and I've never understood how people don't understand that). The point and the prize is to convert undecided members of the audience to your side of the topic; not to convert the other side. If you could do that, there'd be no debate in the first place...

Banjax

That wasn't the point of my post, but then again, I guess that doesn't matter.

fits

Banjax wrote: »

Phillip Lynch shot dogs, and over the heads of children on ponies during that incident. Since then he's been a high profile member of the ICAB's cabal.
.

Yes thats what I heard. The degree of his aggression in this incident was very underreported.

I've been out with the Kilmoganny's and they are a very nice, salt of the earth pack, consisting mostly of local farmers.

BryanL

but is the show still going to go ahead, just without any input from hunting people?
surely any of them could defend hunting?
Bryan

Banjax

I'm not sure about that actually, I think it's been put off for a while.

Brian Munn is a good speaker, and it's him that RTE wanted to veto. Yer man Gavin from the Ward hunt overdoes it a bit, a ding-dong between him and Bernie Wright would be just what RTE would love.

johngalway

fits wrote: »

Yes thats what I heard. The degree of his aggression in this incident was very underreported.

I've been out with the Kilmoganny's and they are a very nice, salt of the earth pack, consisting mostly of local farmers.

Just an idle question.

I'm a sheep farmer myself and there is no hunt in my area. But, if a dog was chasing, or worrying my animals I wouldn't shoot over or near people to destroy it. Don't misunderstand me, if I had a clear and safe shot I'd take it. But, if he did shoot over or near people does he still hold a firearms licence? As that sounds very dodgy to me.

BryanL

it's funny if he's got a gun and you can't get a .223 in kilkenny?

meathstevie

In reply to John. While a farmer is perfectly entitled to destroy stray dogs worrying their livestock the alleged behaviour of yer man in KK is quite questionable indeed. Personally I don't feel someone who fires towards people who aren't threathening his life should be able to hold on to a gun and should be prosecuted. On the other hand the members of the allegedly trespassing hunt should be held accountable for their behaviour as well.

johngalway

Stevie,

I agree with you. I'd like to clean up my last post by saying I'd not shoot a dog unless he was worrying sheep on his own or couldn't be controlled/called off by the owner. Wouldn't like doing it but wouldn't have a choice in it.

Bryan,

I had that thought myself, quite ironic if it's the case.

meathstevie

Know exactly what you're on about John. Good pal of mine's old lad is a sheep farmer and some people just don't give a damn about where their dog strays.

AckwelFoley

depends on your definition of worrying..

If a stray dog decides to go John Rambo solo after a fox and goes through a field full of sheep, im sure the leaders of the flock of sheep would express their general concern to the rest of the flock that they should be somewhat worried - in this case i dont think the dog should be shot.


If however the dog is chasing the sheep around the field into a lather of sweat, in mid lambing season, then "ready, aim- FIRE!"

eoinkildare

not to be questioning anyone else's idea of fun and sport etc. and before anyone says anything about this post, no i'm not anti hunting. but a question arises in my mind.

why would gun hunters get involved in defending fox hunting on horse back with hounds? i mean, i know its all hunting in the greater sense of it, but we all argue about the correct calibre of gun to use for fox to ensure a clean kill. to reduce the suffering. to remain humane in our killing, and yet then we place ourselves in the same category as fox hunters (the horseback and hounds kind). seems a bit strange to me considering how the fox generally dies in these hunts.
of course, someone will probably reply by saying "well the fox isn't a humane killer when it kills lambs and chickens" etc etc. anyway, i dont see that as a valid argument as i would consider us a bit above a fox morally.
just my observations,
eoin

(im not criticising anyone!)

Trojan911

meathstevie wrote: »

Know exactly what you're on about John. Good pal of mine's old lad is a sheep farmer and some people just don't give a damn about where their dog strays.

I agree. My sisters two dogs suffered the fate of the vets needle after the local sheep farmer caught them running amok amongst his sheep a few years back.

In fairness to the farmer this was not the first incident either and he caught them and locked them up until the sister collected them, but enough was enough and on the third occasion he called in the Gardai.

I know quite a few sheep farmers in my area and I know how hard they work, especially during the lambing season, and I have given them help in the lambing itself. They are grateful for the input we do in culling the foxes in their areas.