Broccoli

ApeXaviour

In the last month I've grown to love this stuff. It's so handy to prepare, and pretty damn tasty when prepared right. I just chop the individual florets off into a tupperware container, put in about 10mls of water. Place the lid over (unsealed but covering) and put into the microwave for 2-3 mins. Et Voila! Practically instant steamed broccoli. I then pour on some of my own blended oil* and grate some Lidl parmesan type cheese on it.

That served with smoked salmon (with a bit of lemon squeezed on it) has become a regular breakfast for me. God it's so good.

But I've a couple of questions:

-Okay so it's packed full of vitamins, but how good is it really? Maybe I'm just bad at using google, all I seem to find are woolly explanations: things like "anti-cancer effects", or it's got X amount of your rda of omega 3 and Y amount rda of protein. What kind of omega 3? What are these mystical rda's? I'm suspect. Is there anywhere with absolute values?

-Secondly, if it really is so good, where can I get it cheap (preferably Dublin city centre)? I go to the SuperValu on Aston Quay, and it's €5 per kilo (about 2 heads). In Dunnes I think I inadvertently paid €3.99 for one head once... That's nearly as expensive as some meats! I'd love to grow it if I had a bloody garden.


*Contains, in order of largest volume: extra virgin olive oil, linseed oil, walnut oil, toasted sesame oil, chili oil (available from most chinese stores, is actually mostly soya oil with ground chili peppers/seeds in it, adds an amazing kick), and marinating in this concoction are whole garlic cloves, diced scallions and mixed herbs (not parsley).

Macha

Not sure on the other questions but just about buying it cheap - not all broccoli is created equal and by buying organic, in season, Irish etc you're going to get a lot more nutrients than some non-organic South African broccoli that you pick up in January.


http://www.ift.org/cms/?pid=1001060

g'em

Or just buy frozen. Snap freezing really does seal in the nutrients that fresh veg lose in transit (and even moreso as tac pointed out when they're transported long distances out of season).

Broccoli is a total superfood too, I'm a bit pushed for time right now but there's plenty to read here

CerebralCortex

Does cooking veg in microwaves damage the nutrients? I love to microwave two sweet potatoes and simply eat them.

g'em

CerebralCortex wrote: »

Does cooking veg in microwaves damage the nutrients? I love to microwave two sweet potatoes and simply eat them.

In a word: YES.

There's more discussion here (the Health Action Network) and a paper* which measured the levels of flavonoids (a kind of antioxidant) that remained in fresh broccoli after it was cooked by four popular methods--steaming, pressure cooking, boiling or microwaving found the following:

Clear disadvantages were detected when broccoli was microwaved, namely high losses of flavonoids (97%), sinapic acid derivatives (74%) and caffeoyl-quinic acid derivatives (87%). Conventional boiling led to a significant loss of flavonoids (66%) from fresh raw broccoli, while high-pressure boiling caused considerable leaching (47%) of caffeoyl-quinic acid derivatives into the cooking water. On the other hand, steaming had minimal effects, in terms of loss, on both flavonoid and hydroxycinnamoyl derivative contents. Therefore we can conclude that a greater quantity of phenolic compounds will be provided by consumption of steamed broccoli as compared with broccoli prepared by other cooking processes.

* Vallejo F, Tomás-Barberán FA, García-Viguera C, et al. Phenolic compound contents in edible parts of broccoli inflorescences after domestic cooking. Journal of the Science of Food and Agriculture Volume 83, Issue 14 , Pages 1511 - 1516. Published Online: 15 Oct 2003

Edwardius

It also promotes a favourable acid balance so it should assist in bone health/prevent the gout!

ApeXaviour

taconnol wrote:

Not sure on the other questions but just about buying it cheap - not all broccoli is created equal and by buying organic, in season, Irish etc

Okay, while that is very probably the case. I'm a student, pretty skinflint. A head of non-organic spanish broccoli in January is going to be a whole lot healthier than a centra roll.

g'em wrote:

Broccoli is a total superfood too, I'm a bit pushed for time right now but there's plenty to read here

Danke g'em as always. Bookmarked, it appears I am crap at google.

g'em wrote:

CerebralCortex wrote:

Does cooking veg in microwaves damage the nutrients? I love to microwave two sweet potatoes and simply eat them.

In a word: YES.

There's more discussion here (the Health Action Network) and a paper*

Wow.. that came as a bit of a shock to me. I've always been a bit of an advocate of microwaving for certain things, people often misunderstand it because they hear words like "radiation". If you don't mind some healthy scepticism/debate, I had a skim over that paper as I really wanted to understand how microwaving could be responsible for such significant loss in soluble material.

"A microwave oven (Samsung, Cleveland, UK) operating at full power (1000W) for 5 min was used for microwaving, with the same amount of broccoli [150g] and tap water [150ml] ..."

Compare that to a 900W microwave at 2 mins, with 10 mls of water and covered (for 150g of broccoli).

And while their results agree with other publications for conventional boiling, high pressure boiling and steaming, they admit that the "flavonoid loss rate does not agree with that previously reported by other authors for microwaving."* **

Now that may well be a result of those studies being on other vegetables, or it may be the fact that (as far as I can tell) they appear to have just boiled the broccoli in the microwave for a significant period of time. It's impossible to conclude anything, though my gut says it's the latter.

Yes steaming is very good, but from experience I've noticed that the steam will condense on the florets and does drip down, leaving a green tinge on the water below. However when I steam in the microwave, there is practically no water left to be tinged.

Dead Ed wrote: »

It also promotes a favourable acid balance so it should assist in bone health/prevent the gout!

Ah yes, nice net base load, gettin rid of that aul' uric acid etc. Good stuff.


So I think my first question is answered: broccoli kicks bum. Now that I want to eat my weight in it, maybe someone could help me with the second question. Where do I get it for a decent price? Maybe the fruit n veg people on Moore St, do they sell it? What about Lidl or Aldi? Does anyone know a good grocer? I certainly won't be able to eat nearly as much as I'd like of it if I have to pay €4 a head.



*TudelaJA, CantosE, Esp´ın JC, Tom´as-Barber´an FA and
Gil MI, Induction of antioxidant flavonoid biosynthesis in
fresh-cut potatoes. Effect of domestic cooking. J Agric Food
Chem 50:5925–5931 (2002).

**Crozier A, Lean MEJ, McDonald MS and Black C, Quantitative
analysis of the flavonoid content of tomatoes, onions,
lettuce and celery. J Agric Food Chem 45:590–595 (1997).

g'em

ApeXaviour wrote: »

If you don't mind some healthy scepticism/debate...

Hehe, good man btw what school/ depeartment are you in TCD?

There's actually a ridiculous amount of research on cooking methods and vegetables (and even broccoli specifically!!); these were all referenced in one paper but I'm sure there's more out there:

Lin CH, Chang CY. 2005. Textural change and antioxidant properties of broccoli under different cooking treatments. Food Chem 90(1–2):9–15.

Moreno DA, Carvajal M, López-Berenguer C, García-Viguera C. 2006. Chemical and biological characterisation of nutraceutical compounds of broccoli. J Pharm Biomed Anal 41(5):1508–22.

Petersen MA. 1993. Influence of sous vide processing, steaming and boiling on vitamin retention and sensory quality in broccoli florets. Eur Food Res Technol 197(4):375–80.

Rungapamestry V, Duncan AJ, Fuller Z, Ratcliffe B. 2006. Changes in glucosinolate concentrations, myrosinase activity, and production of metabolites of glucosinolates in cabbage (Brassica oleracea var. capitata) cooked for different durations. J Agric Food Chem. 54(20):7628–34.

Sahlin E, Savage GP, Lister CE. 2004. Investigation of the antioxidant properties of tomatoes after processing. J Food Comp Anal 17(5):635–47.

Sahlin E, Savage GP, Lister CE. 2004. Investigation of the antioxidant properties of tomatoes after processing. J Food Comp Anal 17(5):635–47.

Zhang D, Hamauzu Y. 2004. Phenolics, ascorbic acid, carotenoids and antioxidant activity of broccoli and their changes during conventional and microwave cooking. Food Chem 88(4):503–9...

It seems your scepticism is highly warranted - I remembered seeing the journal article I referenced before and it was the first one that sprang to mind when the question came up, but after doing a bit of digging at more recent papers it seems the jury is out. For example, from the Zhang paper:

Antioxidant components, including phenolics, ascorbic acid and carotenoids, of broccoli floret and stem, antioxidant activity, and their changes during conventional and microwave cooking, were investigated. Broccoli florets and stem were cooked by conventional boiling or by microwave over up to 300 s. Total phenolics were retained by up to 28.1–28.4% in the cooked florets and 55.6–57.8% in the cooked stems, and ascorbic acid by 34.1–34.4% and 29.1–29.5%, respectively. Total carotenoids were retained better compared to total phenolics and ascorbic acid. Total antioxidant activity was retained at 34.7–35.0% in the cooked florets and 34.6–34.7% in the cooked stems and phenolic antioxidant activity was retained at 37.4% and 64.7%, respectively. The results showed that antioxidant components and antioxidant activity in broccoli were lost heavily during the cooking. These losses need to be taken into account when calculating the dietary intake of these compounds from the cooked broccoli.

Some of the others are well worth a read too... unfortunately for me my brain is typically Friday-afternoon-fried right now and I'm relatively incapable of drawing my own conclusions from all that, but I'll get back to it... hopefully!!



Of course there's always the option of drinking the water you cook your veg in

ApeXaviour

g'em wrote: »

Hehe, good man btw what school/ depeartment are you in TCD?

School of physics (experimental), same as Dead_Ed (soz for outtin ya there man). God if I was biochemistry or something I think I'd be embarrassing myself fiercely here.

Yeah friday afternoon, I'm not gonna look at any more papers. I should really be doing other work, my supervisor's gonna come down on me hard.

Back on topic, I forgot to ask about your frozen broccoli idea. Last time I tried it, granted it was abroad and before I developed much of a taste for it... but I recall it being quite mank. Does it taste okay here? How do you prepare it? Just steam from frozen or let it defrost first? Is it cheap?

g'em

ApeXaviour wrote: »

School of physics (experimental), same as Dead_Ed (soz for outtin ya there man). God if I was biochemistry or something I think I'd be embarrassing myself fiercely here.

lol you'd have thought I'd cop that by the fora you Mod eh?! I'm... well I'll PM you lest I get in fierce trouble...

ApeXaviour wrote:

Back on topic, I forgot to ask about your frozen broccoli idea. Last time I tried it, granted it was abroad and before I developed much of a taste for it... but I recall it being quite mank. Does it taste okay here? How do you prepare it? Just steam from frozen or let it defrost first? Is it cheap?

Personally I really like it. Granted, nothing beats fresh, in-season, organically grown straight-outta-the-ground-still-smelling-of-good-Irish-soil broccoli (especially when lathered with liberal doses of full creamy butter) but for year-round eating the good brands (Birds Eye etc.) are fairly fail safe. You may have to try a couple of different brands and some are hit and miss, but they're cheap and cheerful by and large. I find broccoli, mange tout and sugar snap peas to be a wickedly good mix.

Piste

Broccoli is the food of the gods!

I really don't like steamed Brocolli as I find it makes it soggy and looses a lot of the flavour, but broccoli in a stirfry is so delicious, lovely and crunchy and flavoursome! I'm worried though that it mighten't be the healthiest way to prepare it, even if I do use a good low-fat oil.


What's everyone;s favourite way to prepare/serve broccoli?

ApeXaviour

Piste wrote: »

I really don't like steamed Brocolli as I find it makes it soggy and looses a lot of the flavour,

You should steam it only until its colour turns bright green (like 2 mins), then it's still crisp, flavoursome and you haven't soaked all the vitamins and flavanoids etc. out of it.

Piste wrote: »

good low-fat oil.

What on earth is that?

What's everyone;s favourite way to prepare/serve broccoli?

Short steaming, in a microwave or otherwise, add the good oil on afterwards.

dudara

Broccoli is delish. I generally steam it in the microwave for no more than about 2 minutes or until it goes bright green, but is still a little crunchy.

CodeMonkey

Piste wrote: »

I really don't like steamed Brocolli as I find it makes it soggy and looses a lot of the flavour

Sounds like you are overcooking it.

What's everyone;s favourite way to prepare/serve broccoli?

Blanch the broccoli and then stir fry with some garlic and chilli flakes. Or just steamed with some oyster sauce.

CareBear99

Yummy i love broccoli so much... definitely my favourite vegetable!

Broccoli is a brilliant source of Vitamins C (79mg in 100g which is more than the RDA for the day(60mg) although i know alot of the vitamin C will be destroyed depending on the cooking method!), A and K, folic acid and fibre and its a good source of vitamin B2 and B6 too aswell as the minerals potassium, phosphorus and magnesium.

It helps prevent cancer because it contains the phytonutrients sulfuraphane and indoles! Sulfuraphane detoxifies the liver and skin too. Eating broccoli regularly can decrease your risk of heart disease because of the flavonoids it contains - it is one of the richest sources of flavonoids along with onions, apples... and tea!

Definitely a super-food!

menoscemo

ApeXaviour wrote: »

Where do I get it for a decent price? Maybe the fruit n veg people on Moore St, do they sell it? What about Lidl or Aldi? Does anyone know a good grocer? I certainly won't be able to eat nearly as much as I'd like of it if I have to pay €4 a head.

I just checked through my Receipt from Lidl this week. It says the head of Broccoli I bought cost €0.45:eek: Is that possible?? Maybe they made a mistake judging by the prices you are quoting.

Piste

ApeXaviour wrote: »

What on earth is that?

Well I meant low-fat compared to other oils, of course all oils have a high fat content. I generally use the low-cal spray and I hear linseed oil is one of the best oils to use fatwise.

ApeXaviour

Piste wrote: »

Well I meant low-fat compared to other oils, of course all oils have a high fat content. I generally use the low-cal spray and I hear linseed oil is one of the best oils to use fatwise.

All edible oils, by their nature, are 100% fat. Fat is great IMO, you require it to live, it makes you feel fuller for longer, it's insulin neutral and is necessary for the absorption of fat soluble vitamins, don't be afraid of it.

You have three basic types:

Saturated: (meat, dairy, eggs etc.). Not nearly as terrible as the media makes out, you need some to live. Contains dietry cholesterol (which only makes up about 30% of your blood cholesterol, the rest is triggered by too much insulin and is made in the liver). But still minimising this as much as possible with lean meat etc. is probably a good idea. However this type of fat is uber-resistant towards oxidation and as such is very good for frying with.

Monounsaturated: (olive oil, rapeseed oil, avocados, almonds, cashews etc.). Very important to get a bit of this. Probably a reason the Mediterraneans have lower incidences of heart disease etc. You can fry fairly safely at low temps with monunsaturated fats. If you fry with olive oil like me, use the cheap stuff, don't use the extra virgin, since it smokes at a much lower temperature.

Polyunsaturated: The most complicated of them. Not resistant to oxidation and hydrogenation. Try not to fry with these!
Omega-3: (fish, shellfish, linseed oil, nuts, organic meats/dairy/eggs). There's ALA, EPA, DHA, GLA and many more. EPA and DHA are the most important and are pretty much only available from fish. Your body can make EPA and DHA from ALA (that you can get from linseeds and nuts) but the process is very inefficient. It's made even more inefficient if you've excess Omega-6 in your diet (which nearly everybody bar the Inuits and Japanese do).
Omega-6: (Vegetable oils, whole grains, cereals, some seeds, grain-fed meat/dairy/eggs.) Avoid, avoid, avoid. This stuff, while essential in reasonable amounts is downright harmful in the quantities consumed in the modern western diet. These typically have ratios of omega−6 to omega−3 in excess of 10 to 1, some as high as 30 to 1. The optimal ratio is thought to be 4 to 1 or lower.*
Cis: The normal state you get most of your polyunsaturated fats in.
Trans: Altered structure due usually to hydrogenation e.g. hydrogenated vegetable oils ( margarine!). And if you fry polyunsaturated fats I believe they can turn trans at high temperatures.


*http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12442909?dopt=Abstract


Back onto Broccoli!

g'em wrote:

Or just buy frozen. Snap freezing really does seal in the nutrients that fresh veg lose in transit (and even moreso as tac pointed out when they're transported long distances out of season).

g'em. Thank-you. In Dunnes (while €5 a kilo fresh) frozen broccoli is €1.34 per kilo... MAGIC! And it's gorgeous steamed. I just need a bigger freezer, I'm restocking every other day. Also got the green beans like you said, they're a nice supplement.

g'em wrote:

Of course there's always the option of drinking the water you cook your veg in

I've actually started doing this. It fits into an espresso cup and tastes kinda tea-like. It's like my morning elixer.

luckat

Fry oil, garlic, chopped chilli pepper, cashew nuts, then chop in the broccoli in florets, stir for a minute or so, dash in half a cup of mixed soya sauce and water (and a bit of sugar if you like it) and cover, turn up high and let it ssssssssteam cook for about 30 seconds, dish out and gollish it down.

Vegeta

Of course there's always the option of drinking the water you cook your veg in

Yeah I do that too but the borthers gag when they see me doing it and call me a freak

Also what are opinions on eating fresh Broccoli raw?

g'em

Vegeta wrote: »

Also what are opinions on eating fresh Broccoli raw?

Go for your life, just wash it thoroughly. It's lovely raw as a crunchy salad ingredient alongside rocket, pine nuts, goats cheese, red onion and balsamic vinegar. Yum!

ApeXaviour

Is it not true that raw broccoli pretty much goes right through you? As in you can't digest it properly and gain very little from it. Green poo being an indicator.

g'em

Gentle steaming or boiling will certainly help to soften the fibre in it, but you will still be able to digest raw broccoli just fine (bar the fibre part of course).

rubadub

ApeXaviour wrote: »

In Dunnes (while €5 a kilo fresh) frozen broccoli is €1.34 per kilo... MAGIC!

And frozen veg often has more nutrients than fresh, as it is often frozen soon after picking so they do not deteriorate as much.

Dont like broccoli myself, eat peas though, can get frozen ones and put them in a mini blender, then just microwave until warm and drink like soup. Microwaves do not worry me too much, most studies I read are cooking the food way longer than needed.

eve

ApeXaviour wrote: »

-Secondly, if it really is so good, where can I get it cheap (preferably Dublin city centre)? I go to the SuperValu on Aston Quay, and it's €5 per kilo (about 2 heads). In Dunnes I think I inadvertently paid €3.99 for one head once... That's nearly as expensive as some meats! I'd love to grow it if I had a bloody garden.

Aldi are doing it as part of their 'Super 6' at the moment meaning that you can buy it for 29c for 500g

http://www.aldi.ie/ie/html/product_range/2744_4770.htm