ATH3: The first verbal bitchslap of 08'

Vince135792003

The underlying idea that many have started off with is that you give a manager to a guy who can't talk so that the manager can be his mouth piece.

In alot of cases that's true but not in all cases.

Sometimes even the best talkers in the world need managers just to give them a little bit of extra momentum that they otherwise would not have had.


Good/great talkers have had managers like Bockwinkle (Heenan) Ric Rude (Heenan), Curt Hennig (Heenan again), Terry Funk (Gary Hart) and the Honk tonk Man (Jimmy Hart).

So again my point is that you don't necessarily just give a manger to a guy who can't talk. Sometimes you give them to a wrestler to give them an added momentum to get them to next level.


So under that criteria, I'd put Paul Heyman with MVP.

Now on the face of it, people might question where the chemistry would be between the 2.

Firstly, I've yet to see a guy Heyman didn't have chemistry with and I think Heyman would be tremendous in the "supportive sports agent" role. It's such a perfect role for Heyman and I can see him giving MVP a pep talking in my head right now. The 2 are made for each other. Heyman could even bring back the mobile phone!~!

Heyman is also the kind of person that buys into the person he is manging. This comes across on the tv screen and that really helps in resonating with fans more. For example, when he was talking about Brock Lesnar being the "next big thing", he couldn't have sounded like he meant it anymore and as a result it helped fans buy into the idea too.

Secondly, he's been one of the few successful managers in WWE in recent years. He hasn't always had total success but generally he's been top notch. He was phenomenal with Brock and got more out of the Big Show than I thought was ever possible on both occasions he managed him.


Thirdly, I think MVP has pretty much got everything. He's got the look, charisma, ability in the ring and on the mic and above all else the consistency to be a top guy. Your not risking anything by putting him with Heyman. You'd just be giving him that little bit extra to shoot him to the top.

Double C

All the right answers seem to have been taken, Heyman, Sweeney, Cornette and JBL. Damn you all!

Since we all know I should have won the last one (you know its true Rossie ) I'm gonna enter all the rounds on time this time to avoid any costly penalties. :cool:

Are factions allowed? If they are I'll go with this answer. Ric Flair managing a Four Horsemen-like faction.

The faction would consist of John Morrison as the Flair type. He fits the bill perfectly as the rock star kinda guy. He is very good on the mic himself and excellent in the ring.
The tag team would be Cade and Murdoch. They are the only old school tag team in WWE right now which would appeal to Flair. They are also the best tag team in WWE right now and Flair would really need that kind of pedigree working for him.
The final spot was a tough choice between a number of guys. I've gone for a contraversial pick in Kevin Thorn. His new look is bad ass (see his pic on the ECW superstars page), kinda Sean O'Haire like, minus the roids. I don't know what type of character he's playing on ECW cos I haven't seen it in a while but if he could pull off a cocky Orton-in-the-early-days-of-Evolution type character it could work well. Even a "not normal" kinda character, anything but a vampire really. He's solid in the ring and not bad on the mic as far as I remember, and is the kind of mid card guy that would benefit a lot from a rub from the likes of Flair.

Obviously, they would only work as a heel group so a Flair turn to start it all would be nice. He could help develop Morrison into a genuine main eventer, a position I think he is earmarked for. He would work wonders with a team like Cade and Murdoch. As good as Curdoch are, they are not very over, so Flair as their manager using all those dirty tricks of his would help get them some real heat, and basically get the crowd involved in their matches. The same would apply to Thorn.

There would be a good dynamic between them with Morrison and Murdoch being good on the mic too, and perhaps Thorn could play the oddball of the group, i.e. be the brunt of the jokes and what have you, so the promos would be entertaining. WWE needs factions too. Badly.

Vince135792003

Double C wrote: »

Are factions allowed? If they are I'll go with this answer. Ric Flair managing a Four Horsemen-like faction.

I love Ric Flair but I don't want to see him be a manager right now for a number of reasons. Number one, he basically had that role for about 2 years and I think it would come across as Evolution version 2, which waters down the idea since he's done it before.

Also Ric Flair is on the last stretch of his career and is currently doing a retirement angle. I watched the show from Greensboro and watching him perform there for the last time gave me goosebumps.

And I just think that if he arrived as a manager a month later after the retirement angle, it would cheapen what everyone felt for the 6 months during the storyline.

Plus for me, I'd like to see him retire completely in a match in the ring. I'd like my last real memory of him to be getting a standing ovation at Wrestlemania which if anyone deserves it, it would be Ric Flair. Not walking out with all due respect with Cade/Murdoch to face Carlito and Santino on a just another Raw show.

Machismo Fan

Personally I would put Kane with Father James Mitchell. They would go perfectly together. I think Kane has gone a bit off in recent times so he turns heel to do the bidding of Sinister Minister.

It would give Kane a very good mouthpiece and perhaps push Kane back up right to the top and reignite his fire.

Bubs101

Are tag teams allowed? seeing as this is manager based I don't see why there would be a problem. If yes, Then my pick is Jim Cornette and Cade and Murdoch but I'll refrain from giving an answer until I get the go-ahead.

Actually, strike that, I've just noticed that Cade and Murdoch were used above. I'll go for Regal and Haas

Double C

Vince135792003 wrote: »

I love Ric Flair but I don't want to see him be a manager right now for a number of reasons. Number one, he basically had that role for about 2 years and I think it would come across as Evolution version 2, which waters down the idea since he's done it before.

Also Ric Flair is on the last stretch of his career and is currently doing a retirement angle. I watched the show from Greensboro and watching him perform there for the last time gave me goosebumps.

And I just think that if he arrived as a manager a month later after the retirement angle, it would cheapen what everyone felt for the 6 months during the storyline.

Weren't Evolution just the Horsemen version 2? I know they were from different generations and all, but every wresting angle is basically just some old angle re-hashed. Whether Flair retires completely or comes back on tv in some capacity remains to be seen, but it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest to see him back after a while. What else is he going to do?! Anyway, it's a hypothetical question and I didn't take current storylines into consideration, I just went with the slim pickings I had left to choose from .

The Sparrow

May as well give this a punt...

I think that really you want a guy down the roster who would actually benefit greatly from having a manager to define their character. I think that the likes of MVP and Randy Orton are doing just fine by themselves. OK neither of them may be the finished article but I think that they have both established themselves and got themsleves over so I don't think that a manager would make too much sense for either of them.

So by that logic I would choose Cody Rhodes. Here is a guy that has a name and that is basically it. I think they did ok in how they brought him in but it is now time to give him his own identity away from Dusty. At the moment he is very cookie-cutter and his promos don't seem anything special, although admittedly he hasn't had much to work with. And the angle with Hardcore Holly was another one of those "lets get the wily veteran to teach the new kid some respect" generic WWE angles for new wrestlers.

So who to manage Cody Rhodes... Well as I mentioned he has to break away from Dusty. So my idea would be to build a few weeks of Dusty interfering too much in Cody's matches and perhaps costing him the odd match here and there and Cody at first playing the devoted son. But eventually Cody would turn on Dusty with his new manager... Arn Anderson.

It is the ultimate rebellion for a son against his father to side with one of his arch-enemies. So Arn and Cody beat up Dusty and take him out and WWE can use that vast tape library to tell all of the history of Dusty and Arn. Obviously there is no value in and Arn v Dusty feud or match here really but an initial turn on Dusty by Cody and then Arn revealed as the mastermind followed by a big beat down that will take Dusty out for at least six months. And then Arn can use some of those legendary mic skills to tell us why Cody Rhodes wanted to get away from Dusty's shadow and establish himself using his own talent.

Arn Anderson imo has been criminally underused by WWE. I mean as far as i know he is still there as a road agent and he would be great giving promos about how he was shaping Cody into something his father never was, a winner. Obviously Cody would immediately get heat for turnning on Dusty and a long unbeaten run along with Arn's promos would really get him over. Hey presto a new star is born and a year later Dusty can return with somebody else new who needs to get over to feud with Cody and his manager Arn Anderson.

Bounty Hunter

ill allow Tag-teams and factions for this question if you wish to go tht route but remember the more people involved the more that can possibly be wrong about what you propose in your response. I will try to be more difinitive in further questions as to what is ok to answer on from now on.

Bubs101

Well, I've decided to avoid Cade and Murdoch for the time being

So, Haas and Regal. Before explaining why I think this is the best combination so far I'll show what in my opinion a manager's function is. First and foremost, a manager is meant to compensate for the speaking elements that the client is normally unable to perform. Secondly, a manager is meant to get the wrestler over, not vice-versa (one huge criticism I'd have of Orton-Sweeney. The champion who has not gelled with anyone bar Edge sudennly takes on a randomer as his manager?That's TNA booking right there). I also feel it is important that the styles of wrestler and manager mix so as to make it plausable to the fans

One of the main reasons I chose Haas is that he is criminally underused. Great technichally he could become the next Benoit or Regal but he has constantly been ranked below his more flashy ex-tag team partner ( who KKV put with Regal, Stylez clash if ever there was one)and been used as a sprinboard for Shelton. They have nothing for him at the moment at all and while Regal is doing well as GM, I don't think they'd miss him with Coach around. Their styles are very similar in the ring. Good technichal chain wrestlers who have tended to cheat for wins.

How I would make it happen? I would just have Haas wrestle three times in a row on Smackdown (don't think anybody would notice if he moved brand and there would be a purpose for the move and seeing as he can't speak a promo is out of the window) and have some good wins. At the same time, I'd have Regal fill in for JBL on commentary and complain about the standard on Smackdown but praise Haas' style and dedication. After the third match and Haas has gotten a more over with fans have Regal come in and shake his hand. Then next week, have Haas losing a match and have Regal leave his position on the desk to use the brass knuckles on his opponent giving Haas a win with assistance. Then have the two cut a promo the next week, strictly Regal speaking explaining his actions and you'd have a good team.

The benefits are multiple. For one, Haas would finally get the push he deserves. He's a hard worker who's been well behaved and has helped his fellow wrestlers out (has performed for Booker's promotion for example). He has earned a push. Secondly, it would add further talent to the U.S. title scene. M.V.P., Mysterio, Haas and Hardy could have great feuds over the title with good solid wrestling. It could become essential T.V. fast and it would be the perfect mix. 2 heels, 2 faces. I would also put Regal on semi-active status and have him in an occasional tag-team with Haas. More Regal in ring would be great. It would get Regal out of comedy skits with Hornswoggle. I also fully believe that Charlie Haas could easily become the next Benoit if he got the push. Also, the WWE has a severe lack of gritty technichal wrestlers since Benoit and Angle are gone so I think Haas would be a perfect fit for the missing slot

EdK

I know Michael Hayes was associated with the Hardys when they started, But i would put the Freebird with Jeff Hardy now, Hardy has the in ring ability and a certain level of charisma to achieve alot in wrestling, but he cant talk

Freebird and himself are both from the same general area they have a past history, Hardy has the in ring skills and Hayes has the ability on the mic to get him over aswell as to tell a story and get an audience interested in a storyline or feud, plus he is still capable of a run in or interference if needs be(hes not too decrepid), so thats my pick

charlie mchugh

charlie mchugh wrote: »

Further, I believe that such combos work best as heels.

Therefore, I propose that Booby Lashley be managed by Jim Cornette.

I really don't see why Lashley would play heel. OK, Jim Cornette could get him over and all, and lashley is just another lesnar/umaga/etc. but why would WWE turn one of their biggest baby-face champions heel?

It wouldn't make much sense. Especially after the McMahon angle recently.

charlie mchugh wrote: »

I genuinely believe that Lashley could work as a killing machine heel (e.g Brock, early Taker, masked Kane etc). But he doesn't have the mouth for it. I believe that if the viewing public are going to have Lashley as one of their main eventers, it might as well be done right, and having someone like Cornette as Lashley's mouthpiece could achieve this.

But Kane, Lesnar and Taker were all unique and new. Lashley has been around and is known by fans, and has also been a huge face. Lashley shows compassion and devotion to WWE and pro-wrestling, he loves the fans, he's held the belts... So what would make him turn heel? It wouldn't make sense.

Fozzy

Fozzy wrote: »

The wrestler in WWE who I think could make most use of a manager right now is Randy Orton. He's got the in-ring skills, he's got the presence, but he doesn't quite have the promo skills. He often sounds repetitive on the mic and he's not on the same level as his opponents. Cena, Michaels and Jericho are all well able to hold their own on the mic.

I agree, Cena, Jericho and Michaels are superior to Orton in terms of mic-work. However, as has already been said, it wouldn't be credible to suddenly give Orton a manager. Orton sees himself as the future and also firmly believes he is the future on his own. He was won the title alone, he has had decent matches alone, he has elevated to the main event alone... Why would he decide that he needs a manager now?

It wouldn't make sense. Randy Orton can do decent promos sometimes (Mick Foley, 2004) and whilst i do believe he sounds monotonous on the mic, fans have become used to him. He has been cutting promos for too long, and been viewed as a top tier guy for too long for this to be realistic. A tag team partner (like Edge) made sense because he had to take on two people (DX) but in a singles feud, unless he was being bullied by his opponents manager, then I just don't see it helping him out at all.

Fozzy wrote: »

The main thing is that Orton's weakness is his mic work. Sweeney's mic work stands right up there with any of the best talkers today, and he's got experience in being a manager and in talking up wrestlers other than just himself. The perfect fit in my opinion

Again, I understand your point. But It wouldn't work. Randy Orton is too much of a back stabber kinda guy. He doesn't listen to people anyway. He just goes and does what he wants. When he was getting help by Flair in the later days of Evolution, he pretty much told Flair to f*ck off and leave him alone. I don't see Randy getting a manager being realistic.

Vince135792003

woooo232 wrote: »

I think that really you want a guy down the roster who would actually benefit greatly from having a manager to define their character. I think that the likes of MVP and Randy Orton are doing just fine by themselves. OK neither of them may be the finished article but I think that they have both established themselves and got themsleves over so I don't think that a manager would make too much sense for either of them.

Honky Tonk Man was over and they still gave him Jimmy Hart. Nick Bockwinkel and Ray Stevens could talk all day, were over, and they were still put with Booby Heenan.

Butch Reid (great talker) in WCW, would have got over fine but they still gave him and Ron Simmons Theodore Long as their manager.

Ric Rude was as over as any hell in the WWF in the 1980's. They still put him with Heenan though.

Legion of Doom were over in WWE in the early 1990's but when Vince had the chance to bring Paul Ellering, he did it.

The list is endless. The best use of managers is not necessarily always just to put them with a guy with talent but with no mic ability.

So, why were the people in my above list of examples given managers? Because when you have a talented manager, they can make a good act into a great act. They can make a guy pushing to be a top guy into an immediate legitimate contender in the eyes of the fans by just being associated with the manager.

-Bubbs suggested Regal and Haas citing that Haas could easily be the next Chris Benoit. I don't even wanna talk about him in a contest like this but Charlie Haas will never be a Chris Benoit in the ring, with or without Regal.

Haas is a steady guy to have around. No more, no less. Giving Regal as a manger to Haas would be a waste or Regal.

If they were confident about Harry Smith and wanted to really push him, I'd give him Regal.

- There was a suggestion of Cody and Anderson. You're wasting a potentially great manager on a kid that's still learning. So instead of giving Arn a guy that's just not ready for anything right now, give him someone that Arn could really help.

Plus only a portion of the audience will remember the Arn versus Dusty from the Four Horsemen. And of that portion that remember, none will want to boo Arn. It would feel very forced as there's alot of affection for Arn with old time fans.

Presently though if he should be managing anybody, it should be Flair.

Cactus Col

Fozzy wrote: »

Cactus Col, do you think there'd be any danger of JBL overshadowing Kenny? JBL is a very overbearing character and I think that the fans would just look at JBL as being the star of the two. Think of when JBL had his cabinet. Orlando Jordan and the Bashams didn't get any sort of rub off JBL, even though he was the champ at the time. And look at where they are now! JBL is also a lot larger than Kenny, meaning that a lot of the fans' attention will be drawn more towards JBL. I just couldn't see it working

JBL will almost definetly overshadow Kenny to begin with anyway. Afterall, JBL is a wrestling god! JBL is already a main event performer, and a future hall of famer.

Kenny was in the spirit squad and got beat by ric flair. It would be fair to say that Kenny isn't even a mid carder at the moment. However, as JBL uses his greatest gift, that of his mouth, he will raise Kenny up to new levels.

There is a difference between the Cabinet and this concept. The Cabinet was a stable built around JBL and his attempts to keep hold of WWE title. The members of the cabinet not named JBL were not important, unless interfering in matches for JBL. And despite any real direction Orlando Jordan and the Basham Brothers won gold, specifically because of an association with JBL.

However, in a management role, JBL's job would be to get Kenny over. JBL's character would not invest his time and money into a young wrestler if he did not forsee big returns. Just being associated with JBL would see Kenny rise to through the mid card, and would easily be a contender for the United States championship.

We are not talking about an immediate impact (although there would be one as Kenny rises to the mid card). A lengthy reign as Kenny's manager would build him up into a main event position for years to come.

Charlie

Deleted User wrote: »

I really don't see why Lashley would play heel. OK, Jim Cornette could get him over and all, and lashley is just another lesnar/umaga/etc. but why would WWE turn one of their biggest baby-face champions heel?

It wouldn't make much sense. Especially after the McMahon angle recently.





But Kane, Lesnar and Taker were all unique and new. Lashley has been around and is known by fans, and has also been a huge face. Lashley shows compassion and devotion to WWE and pro-wrestling, he loves the fans, he's held the belts... So what would make him turn heel? It wouldn't make sense.

I really have to disagree with you that Lashley is a huge face. And the Belts?? The ECW title is well down on the pecking order, I certainly wouldn't call him a world champ. Like I said, I don't dispute that The McMahon's view Lashley as being a top tier guy, but I would imagine that a lot of fans like myself are far from convinced of him being regarded as so.

However, even if we were to accept that Lashley was this massive babyface, then who better to pull a heel swerve, fans love to hate a guy they once cherished.

But like I said, I don't think Lashley is tat well over as a face, and could be utilised far better as a heel, aligning him with Cornette to achieve this.

The Sparrow

Vince135792003 wrote: »

Honky Tonk Man was over and they still gave him Jimmy Hart. Nick Bockwinkel and Ray Stevens could talk all day, were over, and they were still put with Booby Heenan.

Butch Reid (great talker) in WCW, would have got over fine but they still gave him and Ron Simmons Theodore Long as their manager.

Ric Rude was as over as any hell in the WWF in the 1980's. They still put him with Heenan though.

Legion of Doom were over in WWE in the early 1990's but when Vince had the chance to bring Paul Ellering, he did it.

The list is endless. The best use of managers is not necessarily always just to put them with a guy with talent but with no mic ability.

So, why were the people in my above list of examples given managers? Because when you have a talented manager, they can make a good act into a great act. They can make a guy pushing to be a top guy into an immediate legitimate contender in the eyes of the fans by just being associated with the manager.

-Bubbs suggested Regal and Haas citing that Haas could easily be the next Chris Benoit. I don't even wanna talk about him in a contest like this but Charlie Haas will never be a Chris Benoit in the ring, with or without Regal.

Haas is a steady guy to have around. No more, no less. Giving Regal as a manger to Haas would be a waste or Regal.

If they were confident about Harry Smith and wanted to really push him, I'd give him Regal.

- There was a suggestion of Cody and Anderson. You're wasting a potentially great manager on a kid that's still learning. So instead of giving Arn a guy that's just not ready for anything right now, give him someone that Arn could really help.

Plus only a portion of the audience will remember the Arn versus Dusty from the Four Horsemen. And of that portion that remember, none will want to boo Arn. It would feel very forced as there's alot of affection for Arn with old time fans.

Presently though if he should be managing anybody, it should be Flair.

Well my point was not that established guys should never have managers it was that in this case if the question is who would benefit most from a manager then it should be a guy down on the card because he will benefit most. So my contention is that if you are picking the wrestler who needs a manager most it should not be somebody really good that you are looking to make great because they are already stars. Instead you should pick somebody who is well down the card who could be made into a star.

I think you are over estimating the amount of old time fans that watch and attend WWE shows. I think that it most of the old WCW audience are gone. And I don't think that Arn Anderson would have any trouble getting over as a heel manager. Especially if it was initially to take out Dusty Rhodes.

I think Cody Rhodes has great potential and really we haven't seen anything that he can do because he has been given the cookie-cutter character that John Cena and Randy Orton had too when they first came in. By that logic you would never have put Brock Lesnar with Paul Heyman. I know Lesnar and Cody Rhodes are very different but I think the point stands that really the best use of a manager is to get somebody green over. Sure there is room for managers withy more established guys but the most effective use is with green guys.

As for Arn Anderson managing Ric Flair... Why? I think Flair is doing just fine by himself!

Vince135792003

woooo232 wrote: »

Well my point was not that established guys should never have managers it was that in this case if the question is who would benefit most from a manager then it should be a guy down on the card because he will benefit most. So my contention is that if you are picking the wrestler who needs a manager most it should not be somebody really good that you are looking to make great because they are already stars. Instead you should pick somebody who is well down the card who could be made into a star.

You've countered my argument by replying twice to it now. I believe that's against the rules?

If it's not, I'd sure love to respond to that and other stuff (Flair/Arn) especially the Lesnar/Cody comparison!

Rjd2

Oh well all the good names have being taken, so IL go leftfield and risk total scorn and suggest Shane Mc Mahon to manage CM Punk. I don’t really care too much about ECW and the sooner Punk is drafted to Raw or Smack down the better, where naturally he should be turned heel. I remember the heel heat Shane used to get and if he could recapture his glory days as a powerful manager on the it would be awesome. CM Punk is born to play the cocky arrogant heel and being with Shane would ensure a well needed push so basically in a nutshell Shane could build him up and with the help of dirty tricks, CM Punks stock would rise and rise. A comparison could be with the Vicki and Edge power relationship, but Shane has much more charisma than Vicki oh and naturally no kissing though!

The Sparrow

Vince135792003 wrote: »

You've countered my argument by replying twice to it now. I believe that's against the rules?

If it's not, I'd sure love to respond to that and other stuff (Flair/Arn) especially the Lesnar/Cody comparison!

LOL are you serious?! I just replied to your points in one post! How did I reply twice? I was just clarifying my position!

Do you seriously care that much about scoring points? Surely you can respond to whatever you like! Maybe I'm not understanding this thread properly but I didn't realise it was that rigid.

Vince135792003

woooo232 wrote: »

LOL are you serious?! I just replied to your points in one post! How did I reply twice? I was just clarifying my position!

Do you seriously care that much about scoring points? Surely you can respond to whatever you like! Maybe I'm not understanding this thread properly but I didn't realise it was that rigid.

Yeah I am. It's fun but I think everyone should play by the same rules.

Like Double C responded to what I said about his idea. I disagreed with some of the stuff he countered with but I had to keep my mouth shut. Otherwise the thing would end in chaos.

And giving a manger to a guy who can talk and who is a semi-star already is important to my argument. Many have gone down the route in their argument that you "Give the manager to the guy who can't talk"

My point is that you can give a guy (who can talk) a manager to propel him to the main event level (or a level above what he/she is already), making him a bigger than when he was on his own, thus drawing money for a company, which is what it's all about.

Charlie

woooo232 wrote: »

LOL are you serious?! I just replied to your points in one post! How did I reply twice? I was just clarifying my position!

Do you seriously care that much about scoring points? Surely you can respond to whatever you like! Maybe I'm not understanding this thread properly but I didn't realise it was that rigid.

Its not like most other threads, its suppose to replicate the sports talk show Around The Horn.

You can defend your choice as many times as you want, but you can only make one argument against another's choice. If they respond to this, you cannot try and counter their response.

In fairness, its not rigid, its the rules, which Bounty Hunter has made clear in numerous posts.

The Sparrow

charlie mchugh wrote: »

Its not like most other threads, its suppose to replicate the sports talk show Around The Horn.

You can defend your choice as many times as you want, but you can only make one argument against another's choice. If they respond to this, you cannot try and counter their response.

Ok. Maybe I still don't understand, how did I break the rules then? Surely I was just defending my choice?

I wasn't arguing against anybody else's choice I was just responding to Vince's argument about my post. If I messed up appologies but I'm a bit lost now.

RichieLawlor

I think Kennedy could do with a bit of Freshening up, imo he was the hottest thing in WWE before his injury, The fans loved him and he was really good with the mic

Since he came back hes been a little stale, Stars like Jeff Hardy, Orton MVP have well surpassed him.

I propose teaming him with this guy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimmy_Hart

I loved him when he was around, i can imagine him with the megaphone shouting "Kennedy" all over the place and imo he would be immensly over with the fans.

Jimmy could really draw a reaction to the Kennedy gimmick aswell as he has been associated with with some big time acts (hart foundations honkey tonk man ect) and ther promos would be electric

i think there gimmicks would blend well together, and with the return of "the mouth of the south" maybe kennedy could get that well deserved push.

Bounty Hunter

charlie mchugh wrote: »

Its not like most other threads, its suppose to replicate the sports talk show Around The Horn.

You can defend your choice as many times as you want, but you can only make one argument against another's choice. If they respond to this, you cannot try and counter their response.

In fairness, its not rigid, its the rules, which Bounty Hunter has made clear in numerous posts.

thank you Charlie, I made these rules so that the thread doesent decend into chaos. In particular the making only one arguement against anothers choice rule ,which although it may seem rigid to some without it and with the amount of people competing this time round this thread could turn into masses of individual disagreements where each round spans numerous pages and is almost unreadable.

woooo dont worry about it, not just for you but with so many new competitors this time its probably good there was a brief incident that would need the rules/a rule to be clarified, hope you keep playing.

ill leave it at that though as like i said i dont want to further any thread tangents. With so many copetitors (although some will probably drop out) expect a much closer run game this time, and dont lose heart if you have a bad round as it isnt too likely that the same people will win many rounds.

The Sparrow

Bounty Hunter wrote: »

woooo dont worry about it, not just for you but with so many new competitors this time its probably good there was a brief incident that would need the rules/a rule to be clarified, hope you keep playing.

Ah yeah its not a big deal or anything. I'm just curious because I'm still not sure if I did anything wrong. As Charlie McHugh said posters can defend their choice as much as they like. I thought that was what I did? I made a suggestion and Vince countered it with some valid arguments and then I defended my original idea by responding to his points. My second post wasn't countering any arguments that Vince made regarding ideas that he had about who should be managed it was merely defending my choice.

Sorry I'm probably being pedantic here but I'm just curious about if I did or didn't do anything wrong!

Bounty Hunter

The way i see it Vince took it that the opening of your answer where you refer to people making choices like the one he did was a response to answers like his so he defended his arguement. You responded thinking you were defending your arguement while he would have thought you were once again responding to his hense a technical rule break in his mind.

like i said dont worry about it, this time anyway it wont affect anything. in the future i might solve little disputes like this over PM so as once again to avoid taking the thread off topic.

Fozzy

Deleted User wrote: »

I agree, Cena, Jericho and Michaels are superior to Orton in terms of mic-work. However, as has already been said, it wouldn't be credible to suddenly give Orton a manager. Orton sees himself as the future and also firmly believes he is the future on his own. He was won the title alone, he has had decent matches alone, he has elevated to the main event alone... Why would he decide that he needs a manager now?

I explained in a later post that I agree that it wouldn't make sense currently. WWE would have to establish two things, that Larry can make people win and that Orton needs help winning. If those two conditions are satisfied then I don't see any problem with pairing them together

Deleted User wrote: »

It wouldn't make sense. Randy Orton can do decent promos sometimes (Mick Foley, 2004) and whilst i do believe he sounds monotonous on the mic, fans have become used to him. He has been cutting promos for too long, and been viewed as a top tier guy for too long for this to be realistic. A tag team partner (like Edge) made sense because he had to take on two people (DX) but in a singles feud, unless he was being bullied by his opponents manager, then I just don't see it helping him out at all.

Fans have become used to him but I still don't think that many accept him as the top guy. Like Vince said, a manager can be used to push someone up a level. If Orton had a manager who could cut better promos than himself then of course it would help him, assuming that the two conditions I mentioned were done

Deleted User wrote: »

Again, I understand your point. But It wouldn't work. Randy Orton is too much of a back stabber kinda guy. He doesn't listen to people anyway. He just goes and does what he wants. When he was getting help by Flair in the later days of Evolution, he pretty much told Flair to f*ck off and leave him alone. I don't see Randy getting a manager being realistic.

Character evolution is a wonderful thing! If Orton thought that something or someone would help him be the top guy, then why wouldn't he use it? If he lost his title and lost rematches then it could become clear to him that doing his own thing just doesn't work anymore and he needs a change

I guess all my points there are just saying that if WWE give a reason for it to happen then it would make sense

And just off-topic, there's so much logic being used by everyone on this thread, who ever said that logic doesn't matter in wrestling?!

Bubs101

Fozzy wrote: »

And just off-topic, there's so much logic being used by everyone on this thread, who ever said that logic doesn't matter in wrestling?!

A certain Mr. Russo

Fozzy

Fozzy wrote: »

And just off-topic, there's so much logic being used by everyone on this thread, who ever said that logic doesn't matter in wrestling?!

I actually agree. People's points are being read into way too much.

For example, why would Orton need a manager to get him to the top if he is already there? then you counter that by saying if he loses that spot then he will get someone to help him get back up there.


I think there's far too many 'What if's'.



Also, Lashley is a huge babyface. People like me and you may not like him, but I imagine that the majority of WWE's audience are kids and young teenagers who don't understand the backstage workings of pro-wrestling. Its just like Cena. You wouldn't turn him heel because theres too much money being made off him. Fair enough, people on here might not buy his merchandise, but all the 10 year old girls cant get his DVD and CD off the shelves fast enough.

Vince135792003

Deleted User wrote: »

Also, Lashley is a huge babyface. People like me and you may not like him, but I imagine that the majority of WWE's audience are kids and young teenagers who don't understand the backstage workings of pro-wrestling. Its just like Cena. You wouldn't turn him heel because theres too much money being made off him. Fair enough, people on here might not buy his merchandise, but all the 10 year old girls cant get his DVD and CD off the shelves fast enough.

John Cena and Booby Lashley are incomparable as far as being babyface draws.