Changing to foreign satellite from Sky

jockey#1

Hi Guys,

Im looking for your trusted opinions. I am a complete novice when it comes to satellites etc. I would like to see football etc on the foreign satellite channels you all talk about regularly as opposed to paying sky's rip off prices.

I would like to know what the best set up would be for me. I live in north cork and its not very sheltered. I would like access to as many satellites as possible.

Also by using one of these satellites will i be able to access channels such as bbc 1,2,3 & 4 or do i still need to have a sky dish. Are there any companies in the cork area who set all this up for you or is it easier to do it yourself and finally where is the best place to buy the satellite receiver and motor?

Thanks for your help in advance

Jockey # 1

watty

If you want lots of Satellites you need 1.1m motorised dish. You often need a non-Sky Digital Receiver with CAm/Viewing card slot and subscription. Though there is some Free Football. Then you can get BBC also.

There are ways to have up to four satellites without motorisation (thus keeping BBC). A Sky Box won't be suitable generally unless it is fed separately.

See ICDG in my sig.

Pal

For football, you will be comprehensively served if you get 4 sats on an 80cm dish.

These are the sats located at 13e 16e 19e 28e
(e means east)

it can be done without a motor but its a bit tricky. ask a sat installer.
a motor will likely add to the expense, mostly as it takes a lot of setup time.

These sats will deliver a huge amount of football free especially European and International stuff.
Premier League is usually scrambled although there are some free games.

Get a good receiver box. Technomate is very popular.
Search for Technomate forums and read up.

For Premier League, get a viewing card.
Digitalb is the cheapest. Do a google.
Or alsat forum seems to be the expert place on this.

watty

16E doesn't fit properly on most dishes as the separation of LNBs touching is about 4.5 to 5 degrees.

There are skinny hard to get Kathrien LNBs or else use a Wavefrontier T90.

With a motor there is only one instead of 4 LNBs, no Diseqc switch box and no adaptor arm, so parts cost is about the same.

Eurorunner

watty wrote: »

16E doesn't fit properly on most dishes as the separation of LNBs touching is about 4.5 to 5 degrees.
There are skinny hard to get Kathrien LNBs or else use a Wavefrontier T90.

Slender 'Alps' LNBs available that will do the job. Run a search on ebay.

byte

Eurorunner wrote: »

Slender 'Alps' LNBs available that will do the job. Run a search on ebay.

I think those Alps LNB's were also branded Triax, who used them for their multi-LNB kits.

watty

I have the Alps/Triax "pointy" LNBs. They do not allow the required spacing on 13, 16, 19 on a Triax 90cm dish.

If you align 16 and do best you can on 13 & 19, the LNBs are up tight and the weaker channels on 13 & 19 don't work. You will lose more channels in Rain.

They do save a slight amount of space.
Skinny Alps (the Quad & Quattro versions is slightly bumpier).


VERY Skinny Kathrein

Eurorunner

byte wrote: »

I think those Alps LNB's were also branded Triax, who used them for their multi-LNB kits.

Could well be. They fit quite snugly into the triax multi-lnb bracket I bought with them. These are quads and i'm hoping I might be able to get 28/19/16/13...if I don't get 16, its not the end of the world.
Dish is a little bit small for the job at 88cm but will give it a shot anyways. All i've done so far is fit the quads onto the arm - heavier than i thought with all 4 onboard...hope thats not going to be an issue.

If I'm trying for the above, the arm should be pointing at between 17-18*E with 2 lnbs each side?

Not really looking forward to setting this up but i'm sure the neighbours will be just as relieved as I am when its done! (very noisy moteck motor at the moment)

watty

You can get 16, but the 13E & 19E will be poor. The LNBs simply don't go close enough together.
reverse one bracket so 16&19 touch either side (19 on western side) of the arm and then align dish for the 16E signal.

the bar should be tilted up a lot toward 28.2E near western end of bar.
The 13E goes on east side of 16E close up.

Only ever align dish on one LNB (the 16E in your case).
for 28E you need to wiggle adaptor arm up/down a little and slide LNB in/out. The slope of adaptor arm won't affect 16E & 19E as they are close to pivot.

Put the LNBs on a Wavefrontier T90?

Eurorunner

watty wrote: »

Put the LNBs on a Wavefrontier T90?

I know the setup I want but not sure if I want the probable disruption to viewing and frustration that will go with it!
The Wavefrontier would make 13/16/19/28 more achievable and easier to set up wouldnt it?

I could then use triax lnb holder for another location - with 13/19/28 setup. I'd imagine I can get away without using slimline lnbs (they would be dual output) for this second setup?

byte

You should have no problems with using standard size LNB's for 13/19/28 setup on an 88cm dish.

I can just about get 13/16/19/28 using slightly narrower (than normal LNB's - it's the feedhorn that's slightly narrower) Inverto LNB's on the 4way arm on a Triax 110cm. I'd to keep 16E as close to centre as possible, being the weakest satellite. LNB's for 13 and 19 are both touching either side of the 16E LNB.

watty

Quads & Quattro seem to be the problem with the Alps. It's the fatter body not the horn that limits spacing. I thing with single output LNB the spacing is better.

This is my Alps (on its back)


Quattro allows you to feed as many receivers as you want.

Eurorunner

Wavefrontier will be with me next week. Will post back how it works out..

Pal

please do.

byte

I'll be interested also.

What would the equivalent standard dish of a T90 be? 90cm?

watty

About so. Maybe slightly less for a single LNB dish, but hugely more for off axis LNB on a multi-LNB arm on a regular dish.

byte

watty wrote: »

About so. Maybe slightly less for a single LNB dish, but hugely more for off axis LNB on a multi-LNB arm on a regular dish.

OK so. I reckon it'd be not as good with 16E as my current 1.1m then (even though my 16E LNB is slightly off centre)

watty

put the 16E on it's own on the 1.1 and all the other LNBs on the T90. You'll get some 16E improvement.

Eurorunner

I don't suppose it improves my chances of attempting to pull in 1*W ?

737tx

Eurorunner wrote: »

Wavefrontier will be with me next week. Will post back how it works out..

Where is best place / price - to order the T90 dish? Can't find it on internet so far, at least not from Ireland or Europe.

Eurorunner

737tx wrote: »

Where is best place / price - to order the T90 dish? Can't find it on internet so far, at least not from Ireland or Europe.

hm-sat.de

€109 + €19 (postage) + (i think its..)1% credit card fee + another €10 if you want light grey dish instead of anthracite/dark grey.

Cheapest deal I could find on the www. There was one german based ebay seller with same price but he wasnt prepared to ship to IRL.
UK prices are extortionate for this dish for some reason.

737tx

Just found this site -
http://www.wavefrontieruk.co.uk/products.htm
But no address or tel number - only email contact.

Any better contacts for T90 dish?
Thanks

737tx

Thanks Eurorunner - will contact them, Wife complaining about 4 dishes in garden so it should solve that problem and give me more satellites at same time.

watty

It's about 1/2 to /13 prices from German sites search.

Those wavefrontieruk people are just expensive dealers. Not actually the makers.

http://www.preisroboter.de/search.php?search=wavefrontier&min=&max=

or similar. The "regular" german sites used here do it but I'm ill and can't remeber name

EDIT

Stupid me. It's earlier in thread
hm-sat.de

I shall get one soon.

Eurorunner

737tx wrote: »

Thanks Eurorunner - will contact them, Wife complaining about 4 dishes in garden so it should solve that problem and give me more satellites at same time.

Forgot to mention, you can avoid the credit card fee by paying in advance via IBAN bank transfer (although it will delay the process by a couple of days). The Germans are not big credit card fans.

MisterAnarchy

So will 4 standard LNBs on a T90 get 13,16,19 and 28e or do I need one slim lnb ?

watty

I don't think you need slim LNBs.

Zaphod

The German site dxtv.de is well worth a gander if you want to see what's possible on a toroidal dish.



http://forum.dxtv.de/wbb/thread.php?threadid=12618

syboit

so its is just a case of sliding the different lnbs along the arc'd bar till you hit a satellite,east one way and west the other ?

If your using a sat card in a pc or a settop box, does it register a satellite name/number somewhere to let you know you've hit the right one ?

gorm

just seen this thread now. I've used a T90 for over 3years now with no problems. Currently setup for 13E, 16E, 19.2E and 28E using std lnb's supplied except for 28E where I use a quad lnb. Bought from he-sat.de. Only thing to watch out for is that it uses a 60mm pole which is larger than normal. Should be supplied with it but not sure these days as the kit content seems to change.

Eurorunner

Zaphod wrote: »

The German site dxtv.de is well worth a gander if you want to see what's possible on a toroidal dish.

Cheers for that. A couple of good threads there.

gorm wrote:

Only thing to watch out for is that it uses a 60mm pole which is larger than normal. Should be supplied with it but not sure these days as the kit content seems to change.

Crap...can't believe I overlooked this. Thats just added extra work to the job. I suppose I will have to take down the 50mm wall mount..

watty

syboit wrote: »

so its is just a case of sliding the different lnbs along the arc'd bar till you hit a satellite,east one way and west the other ?

If your using a sat card in a pc or a settop box, does it register a satellite name/number somewhere to let you know you've hit the right one ?

Start at the Middle and make sure it is correct sat, then slide each in turn from centre.

No. You have to tell the Satellite receiver which satellite it's connected to!
A specrtum analyser or professional meter is the only way to "automagically" know generally. My meter sometimes identifies satellite incorrectly. With a spectrum analyser you need the spectrum of each satellite already to be able to compare and decide on a match.

Eurorunner

Just reconsidering my Wavefrontier setup - was just wondering if its possible to ground mount it. How far back would it need to be from a 6ft. panel fence in order for it to clear it?? Are there any tables on the www for this sort of thing?

watty

yes
Geometry
the elevation of the satellite.
Distance from fence.
15 to 25 degrees are typical elevations.
You can get dish a about 60 cm above ground.

Eurorunner

Looks like it will clear fence so ground mount is what i'm going for now.

Just wondering if theres anyone out there that has ground mounted before. What can I use to setup a stable tripod here?

watty

large hole, concrete and 4" pipe come to mind.

Zaphod

All that topsoil will have to go until you hit solid ground. Then get your hack!

Eurorunner

lol. nobody told me there was going to be hard work involved! Looks like I'll have no probs keeping busy on my day off tomorrow then

jrd

gorm wrote: »

just seen this thread now. I've used a T90 for over 3years now with no problems. Currently setup for 13E, 16E, 19.2E and 28E using std lnb's supplied except for 28E where I use a quad lnb. Bought from he-sat.de. Only thing to watch out for is that it uses a 60mm pole which is larger than normal. Should be supplied with it but not sure these days as the kit content seems to change.

Gorm

Do you mind asking how much it cost you to setup? Did you do it yourself and could you post / PM a photo of the setup? Where did you mount it?

TIA

gorm

jolly wrote: »

Gorm

Do you mind asking how much it cost you to setup? Did you do it yourself and could you post / PM a photo of the setup? Where did you mount it?

TIA

weather permitting I'll try and get some photos tomorrow plus answers.

gorm

jolly,

1. Price - Bought over 3 years ago from hm-sat.de. Pricing as per Eurorunner's post about 109 euro on its own or 139 euro for T90, 4xlnb and 1 switch. post and packaging extra.
2. Mounting - Did it myself. It was the second dish I ever mounted. first was just an ordinary 64cm dish. Cheated a little, in that I first mounted it on the garden wall, so I could fiddle with to get used to it. I found the instructions with it pretty good and clear. Only real trouble was a dud piece of satellite cable I used initially. Moved the lnb all around the dish at first to pick up different satellites before settling on current setup of 13E, 16E, 19E and 28E. It now supports 3 STBs. Fortec Passion from maplin, a Triax from satellite.ie and a Topfield TF4000 twin tuner with hard-drive from hm-sat.de. Its now mounted on the back of the house, which faces south.

snaps

smartcard24.com dont seem to charge as much for postage to ireland, also ive never been charged a percentage onto my credit card. Ive used them many times and recommend them. google search "smartcard24"

Eurorunner

snaps wrote: »

smartcard24.de dont seem to charge as much for postage to ireland, also ive never been charged a percentage onto my credit card. Ive used them many times and recommend them. google search "smartcard24"

Takes a .com rather than a .de to get there but good find snaps. In the case of the Wavefrontier, they won't deliver outside germany. But for other stuff, I will be checking them out next time, as its a drag having to go down the bank and pay into a german account (and slows up the whole process) rather than using the plastic fantastic.

Eurorunner

Progress is slow but i've now got the following tuned in.


1*W (although weak signal)
13*E (reference Sat)
16*E (not that strong - 75% - but seem to have all channels)
19*E (weaker than it should be - 80% or so)


Only problem right now is 28.2 - can't seem to find it at all - anywhere along that side of the rail. I was adjusting everything except skew so i'm hoping when i get back to it next week, skew adjustment will sort this out). If not, my worst fear is that i may have dropped the ball and Astra 2 is hitting an obstruction (hope to god this isnt the case as its right back to the start again if it is...).

Eurorunner

Progress is slow but now have sats tuned in with a much better signal on Thor and Astra 1 now. I did drop the ball as regards picking up Astra 2 (got my mount positioning wrong by about 1 meter) but not the end of the world as will leave other dish up on gable, convert from motorised to fixed and stick a quad lnb on it.

Latest hurdle I have is with the diseqc 2.0 4x1 switches. Wired all the lnbs up to the switches. When I configured lnb 1/2/3/4 on DM500, i wasnt picking up any signal on these at all. However, when I connect directly, I have full signal/lock.
Does anyone have any idea what could be going wrong here? Am I right to assume that each of the ports on the switch don't have to be connected to a specific port on the lnb?

keith99

keep the sky dish as when you cancel your sky contract after 12 months you get all the bbc and ITV 1,2,3 & 4 tv channels when you take out the sky card

get a outdoor tv aerial for the irish tv channels and for the future Irish digital terrestrail tv by the end of 2008

Pal

Turn the Sky card upside down and you get the EPG too.

stevethesatguy

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