Seriuosly piddled off

EGAR

Today was a dry day for the first time in a long time so Nate and I decided to take pupster for a walk in our usual haunt, the local forest. We drove up to the forestry barrier, parked the car, went around the barrier and on our merry way. About 20 minutes into the walk there were loud shots coming from behind us and then loud voices. I grabbed my child and then the pupster and shouted: WTF do you think you are doing???

Next thing 4 men appeared from the undergrowth, I swear to God, I thought I was in a blooming war movie. Faces painted black (BROAD DAYLIGHT FFS!!), khaki clothes etc. And guns, lots of guns.

They stared at me and one of them mumbled *goat control* - at which point I slightly lost it.

Had they NOT seen my car parked at the barrier?? Had they not seen the child seat in the car?? Have they no brains or is the urge to kill so strong that they don't give a ****e about WHO might be in the way? Just a few choice bits of what I threw their way.

I went back to my car and there it was:


I am going to lodge a complaint with Coillte AND the police tomorrow morning.

Pheonix Ski

ohmy.... Altho i no it wasnt funny at the time because god forbid you or your child could of been seriously injured but after reading what you wrote and seen the notice then at the end i had a giggle.
You should defo complain,the tiny little notice buried in the bottom corner is ridiculous. Im glad everybody is ok,pupster and all,poor child must of been so frightend now that i think of it,is he/she ok?
(waits for a ear bashing)

Pheonix Ski

I meant to ask.... What the hell were they shooting...beside you?

peasant

Wrong forum

Go there http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=1014 for more effective "ventilation"
:D:D

boyz with toyz :rolleyes: ...sense out the window

Duzzie

Thats rediculas. The sign is a Coillte sign. Were they from Coillte?? Surely if the are there on official bussiness doing "Goat Control" they should be doing it during the week when there is less likely to be public about. From the way they were dressed, sounds like they were just hunters out for the day and were just too lazy to check that the area was clear. You are right to be very annoyed.

Duzzie

EGAR

Neither the sign nor their jeep was there when I arrived there initially, They came after me and MUST have seen my estate with a child seat and a dog guard in the back, theu just didn't give a monkeys. Coillte is paying bounty for each killed goat, they usually just cut off the ears and leave the carcasses and Coillte *employs* hunters from outside as well. They make me sick.


Peasant, I closed the window with you link REALLY quick as I would get shot in the forum .

Duzzie

That is bad. Under Health and Safety at Work Legislation, if Coillte are employing people to do work on their behalf, what ever that work is, they are duty bound to ensure that the people they are employing are working in a safe manor. The people employed to do the work are also duty bound to ensure that they work in a safe manor and do not put anyone, including the public at risk. The sign errected is not adequate to ensure public safety. A call to the HSA may be in order.

EGAR

I took pics of their jeep (KE license plate)- front and back . I am SO angry, you have no idea. The small man is only 3 yro and the pupster is four months, usually I have more dogs with me but luckily it was meant to be some quality time just for Nate and his pupster. He took it quite calmly but the shots startled him. He didn't cry but the pup was hysterical - and so was I :eek: but rather from anger.


Maybe they didn't like my car stickers..

Duzzie

Seriously, you should consider reporting it to the Health & Safety Authority as a dangerous occurance.

arybvtcw0eolkf

I had gout over the Christmas and couldn't get out for my usual Christmas day shoot.

This thread reminds me that my gout has almost gone and 'tis time to take ye olde gun out for a walk.

EGAR

Duzzie wrote: »

Seriously, you should consider reporting it to the Health & Safety Authority as a dangerous occurance.

How does one find them?

Duzzie

http://www.hsa.ie/eng/
You'd be amazed how far H&S at work legislation goes. Far beyond the normal workplace.

EGAR

Thank you! I have bookmarked it, they will be hearing from me!!!

Duzzie

Let us know how you get on. Make sure the HSA are aware that they were being paid by Coillte to shoot the goats and were therefore employed by Coillte for that purpose, meaning that their activities should fall under H&S at Work legislation. Also point out that they were using a Coillte warning sign, showing that they were operation on behalf of Coillte.

Duzzie

EGAR

Will do, thank you!!

Our man in Havana

Most likely they were shooting deer. Goat shooting is highly unlikely.

Duzzie

This is true, Coillte may be interested to know that they were claiming to be acting on their behalf. Are goats such a major problem that requires that they be hunted on a sunday when Coillte is most probably mostly closed down for the christmas break??

ztoical

Was the sign tied to the post? its looks like a small puff of wind would knock it over. I'm sure they are meant to put up more warning then one half assed sign. Anyone getting out the far side of their car would miss that. All sounds very iffy, good job taking the photos of their car.

lightening

Mairt wrote: »

I had gout over the Christmas and couldn't get out for my usual Christmas day shoot..

Mairt... are you Louis the 13th?

EGAR, that is incredible. You have every right to be well pissed off. I would imagine the Gards would take this pretty seriously. Blackened faces and military camo... FFS, big kids.


Mind you, your lucky you didn't get mauled by a goat.

Alun

I've come across similar things to this in Wicklow, but for deer. They stick up one measly little sign at the entrance to the forest track they use to gain access and that's it. It doesn't seem to occur to them that there are hordes of walkers out in the Wicklow Mountains at the weekends who can easily access the area they're shooting in from hundreds of different directions without ever seeing the sign. Then they have the cheek to drive past in their 4x4's looking like they've escaped from the set of "Deliverance" and bellow out of the window "What the f**k are you doing here??!!"

There is a bit of a deer overpopulation problem in Wicklow, and there probably needs to be some culling done, but Coillte, WMNP or whoever sanctions it needs to seriously look at the kinds of people they "employ" to do it, and the safeguards that need to be in place for it to happen safely.

Our man in Havana

Basically anyone with the correct type of firearm can apply to Coillte or NPWS and obtain a permit to shoot deer.

lurchin along

Bond-007 wrote: »

Most likely they were shooting deer. Goat shooting is highly unlikely.

A neighbour of mine is employed part time to clear goats from the Slievebloom mountains- it's been a bumper year for them apparently.(The goats that is.)
Hope you can get these fellas hung out to dry EGAR,that was just outrageous.They just couldn't wait to start blasting away and to .... with the safety of you and your family.Just as well pupster isn't intended to be a gundog and (hopefully)will never have to face it again!

siouxie sue

in this day in age you wouldn't know if they were shooting an animal or a person! :eek:

The Artist

pardon my intrusion but what the hell they are shooting goats for? are they vermins no i dont think so but why goats?

EGAR

There are fairly large herds of feral/dumped goats around here and towards Co. Clare. Coillte claims they are destroying the trees although the parts where they are there are neither no trees or very mature ones.

These guys who shoot them are making me sick. They even shot 4 goats on private grounds, took their collars off then then cut off their ears and left the carcasses behind for the owner (a mother of two young children) to find.

The Artist

EGAR wrote: »

There are fairly large herds of feral/dumped goats around here and towards Co. Clare. Coillte claims they are destroying the trees although the parts where they are there are neither no trees or very mature ones.

These guys who shoot them are making me sick. They even shot 4 goats on private grounds, took their collars off then then cut off their ears and left the carcasses behind for the owner (a mother of two young children) to find.

are these goats wild but still.woulndnt it be better if the goats able to arm themselves and shoot the employers of coillte themselves and see how they like it.whats the big deal if they are chewing the trees at least they can clean their teeth!Killing goats over trees being chewed thats a disgrace,is there a law to prevent harmless goats geting shot for no reason.

wibblebee

I find it all completely sick. Poor animals and how barbaric how ppl go about it. How on earth do they get their kicks killing and mutilating animals. I wouldnt be surprised they do that to pets too.
I think i will have to shut up about this before i make myself physically sick. :mad:
You are very lucky they didnt injure you and your family.

Sorry, there is no excuse to do this

lurchin along

davey180 wrote: »

are these goats wild but still.woulndnt it be better if the goats able to arm themselves and shoot the employers of coillte themselves and see how they like it.whats the big deal if they are chewing the trees at least they can clean their teeth!Killing goats over trees being chewed thats a disgrace,is there a law to prevent harmless goats geting shot for no reason.

Goats can decimate a field of seedlings,they are voracious eaters.
Animal versus economics-there's not much in the way of victory for the animal in that contest.
What burns me is the kind of Rambo attitude some professional shooters have - and in this instance total disregard for the safety of this young family.

EGAR

What speaks against rounding them up, putting them in quarantine and then sending them off to some needy family somewhere where kids still starve???

Goats can acclimatise (sp - I know what I mean ) to different weather, heat etc fairly fast.

The goat used to be the poor Irish man's cow- generations of Irish were reared on goat's milk and this is how they are being repaid - kill them and leave them to rott.

ALOT of the older farmers around here are violently opposed to the goat culling, believing it to be *unlucky* to kill a goat.

Duzzie

Hi Egar. Any joy in reporting these guys?? Anyone in authority shown any interest??

EGAR

The Gardai say they are taking it serious, the Coillte *head guy* is still on vacation and I can't get anybody as HSA. I'll try them again this coming Monday.

Morganna

yes i agree with you Egar they could quite easily round them up and send them abroad to needy familys .I have two milking goats .

DonJose

Best of luck Egar, don't forget to update us. Just shows what a pack of walter mitty idiots those hunters are, using face paint and camo, what a pack of pr**ks.

Vegeta

Clearly what happened to you EGAR was a disgrace, such a flagrant abuse of health and safety, not to mention common sense. Anyone who hunts in that manner is dangerous.

I think you'll find though it will come down to your word versus there's, they'll just say they were there first and so will you. Can you prove they were not. What kind of stickers are on your car? If they are anti hunting stickers they may hinder your arguement as you may be painted in a biased light

The only way coillte can stop this from happening 100% of the time is to ban walking/biking etc etc etc Don't know if they can legally do that but from their point of view the trees need to the protected so they'd probably let hunters in before they'd let walkers in.

As far as I am aware anyone who wants to shoot on coillte land (for deer anyway) has to take a written and practical test and would have been vetted by the gardai for their firearms license.

There is a lot of sensationalist anti-hunting bs in this thread too. Just becuse EGAR met some hunters who were out of line doesn't mean every hunter is.

EGAR

I have to disagree with you re hunting on Coillte land. Every Dick Tom and Harry here goes hunting in the Coillte forests WITHOUT any tests etc.

The stcikers on my car say: **I believe in dragons, good men, faeries and other fantasy creatures. ** and **BSL - there comes a time when silence is betrayal**.

luckat

EGAR wrote: »

There are fairly large herds of feral/dumped goats around here and towards Co. Clare. Coillte claims they are destroying the trees although the parts where they are there are neither no trees or very mature ones.

Maybe there were before the goats came

EGAR

I doubt that very much, not many trees grow in the blanketbog

The Artist

EGAR wrote: »

I doubt that very much, not many trees grow in the blanketbog

did you get back to hsa or anything today about it

EGAR

I did, the ball is rolling.

The Artist

EGAR wrote: »

I did, the ball is rolling.

good to hear that i hope somethings done about it

NoNameRanger

Maybe the hunters were in the wrong, maybe they arrived after you and went in anyway. I'm pretty sure the hunters are not employed by Coillte, they are most likely recreational hunters paying collite to shoot there, as in every walk of life you will get people that don't follow the rules. They all now have to complete a safety and animal welfare course known as HCAP before they are allowed to hunt on Coillte lands.

But all this talk of poor goats and poor deer and hunters are pricks cruel vicious evil people that dress up and terrorise the country is very unhelpful and inflammatory. A little knowledge of the facts before charging into a thread in a rage please.

The facts are that deer and goats cause hugh damage to forestry and native woodland and special areas of conservation. There are Rangers culling for NPWS, not the prettiest job in the world but it has to be done, when people understand the need for culling and the precautions and safe guards put in place for the public, the hunter and the animal being culled they are usually satisfied with the process, you will always have the minority who will never accept anything that is said and just can't handle the killing of a fly.

Wolves have been extinct from Ireland for a long time now. Sika deer and goats are not native to this country and thrive here, their populations need to be controlled.
Bothar was actually contacted a number of years ago by NPWS and offered a constant supply of goats for Africa, their response was that these goats we were offering are feral goats and not milking goats and would be no benefit to the people of Africa, they only ship animals that will produce the best yields. So the only other option is culling, if anybody wants kid goats as pets they are welcome to them.

I get seriously piddled off when people who are so passionate about animals don't bother to inform themselves on how the wild world actually works and mans role in it, instead they get on a forum and call other people names and make them out to be monsters. When in reality they are the real conservationists for the most part albeit for a few bad apples.

johngalway

Well said NoNameRanger

Mellor

NoNameRanger wrote: »

Maybe the hunters were in the wrong, maybe they arrived after you and went in anyway. I'm pretty sure the hunters are not employed by Coillte, they are most likely recreational hunters paying collite to shoot there, as in every walk of life you will get people that don't follow the rules. They all now have to complete a safety and animal welfare course known as HCAP before they are allowed to hunt on Coillte lands.

But all this talk of poor goats and poor deer and hunters are pricks cruel vicious evil people that dress up and terrorise the country is very unhelpful and inflammatory. A little knowledge of the facts before charging into a thread in a rage please.

The facts are that deer and goats cause hugh damage to forestry and native woodland and special areas of conservation. There are Rangers culling for NPWS, not the prettiest job in the world but it has to be done, when people understand the need for culling and the precautions and safe guards put in place for the public, the hunter and the animal being culled they are usually satisfied with the process, you will always have the minority who will never accept anything that is said and just can't handle the killing of a fly.

Wolves have been extinct from Ireland for a long time now. Sika deer and goats are not native to this country and thrive here, their populations need to be controlled.
Bothar was actually contacted a number of years ago by NPWS and offered a constant supply of goats for Africa, their response was that these goats we were offering are feral goats and not milking goats and would be no benefit to the people of Africa, they only ship animals that will produce the best yields. So the only other option is culling, if anybody wants kid goats as pets they are welcome to them.

I get seriously piddled off when people who are so passionate about animals don't bother to inform themselves on how the wild world actually works and mans role in it, instead they get on a forum and call other people names and make them out to be monsters. When in reality they are the real conservationists for the most part albeit for a few bad apples.

Nice post, can safely say you know what you are talking about.

foxshooter243

johngalway wrote: »

Well said NoNameRanger

yeah ,good man tell those antis to stop acting the goat!!

It wasn't me!

Call a hunter all the names under the sun, and I imagine he's still doing a lot more for the preservation of the environment and our natural wildlife species than you ever will. Also, all having a good laugh at wearing camouflage for stalking? If you come across people on roadwork sites, do you laugh at their hard hats and fluorescent jackets? It's all for a reason, and while you remain so ill-informed, it's better that you not disseminate falsehoods, for everyone's sake.

ztoical

Lol let me guess someone posted a link to this thread in the hunting/gun forum and you all rushed over to set the record straight? :rolleyes:

Yes there are extreme views on both sides of the fence. I, and I'm sure alot of people on this forum, are well aware that culls need to take place at certain times. Some people can't understand or find it difficult to deal with but there are extremes on the other side as well.

It wasn't me!

ztoical wrote: »

Lol let me guess someone posted a link to this thread in the hunting/gun forum and you all rushed over to set the record straight? :rolleyes:

Better than seeing the constant ignorant defamation which has endangered shooting sports thus far continue unabated.

ztoical

It wasn't me! wrote: »

Better than seeing the constant ignorant defamation which has endangered shooting sports thus far continue unabated.

you know I'm sure theres a few killing animals bad posts on the veggie forum - quick to the batmobile

It wasn't me!

I'm sure a lot of them are more informed than has been displayed here though.

ztoical

NoNameRanger wrote: »

Wolves have been extinct from Ireland for a long time now. Sika deer and goats are not native to this country and thrive here, their populations need to be controlled.

while it is true that wolves have been extinct it is not 100% true that goats are not native to ireland. There are herds of will indigenous goats namely the wild goats of the Burren.

While I understand and support culls when they are needed as culls not only protect forestry and native woodland but also the animals from stravation and sperad of diease when their numbers become to high.

HOWEVER there is always a flip side and that is that not all culls are carried out under strict guide lines and on a few occasion animals have suffered unnecessarily.

NoNameRanger

ztoical wrote: »

while it is true that wolves have been extinct it is not 100% true that goats are not native to ireland. There are herds of will indigenous goats namely the wild goats of the Burren.

While I understand and support culls when they are needed as culls not only protect forestry and native woodland but also the animals from stravation and sperad of diease when their numbers become to high.

HOWEVER there is always a flip side and that is that not all culls are carried out under strict guide lines and on a few occasion animals have suffered unnecessarily.

Goats are not native/ indigenous to Ireland, they were introduced by Man a long time ago. That is why they are known as FERAL GOATS!!!
I know what I'm talking about!! They did not arrive with the end of the last Ice age. They came on a boat!

Yes there are a few bad apples as i said already, my job is to enforce the wildlife act and prosecute the bad apples which i do very well, but in my experience the vast majority of hunters are genuine people with the greatest of respect for wildlife.
I just wish people would educate themselves before forming such strong opinions that in the end will harm the very wildlife they are trying to protect. We are living in a very urbanised environment these days and if all urban people thought this way it would very quickly pressure politicians into banning all hunting. This would cause untold damage to the biodiversity and wildlife of Ireland.
Nature is cruel!!! Life in the wild is not what kids see in Farthing Wood. That is a cartoon where animals have personalities and speak english. In reality the fox kills the rabbit and eats him and the rabbit suffers. Man is the most humane predator on the planet and is capable of keeping things in balance with a minimum of suffering, imagine the suffering to a goat being killed/ eaten by a wolf compared to a bullet killing it before it hits the ground. Before you say it i know some times animals suffer, that is human error, but its far better than the alternative. Most shots are clean kills and one minute the animal is grazing contently and in the next millisecond it is dead without knowing anything about it.

I am not defending the actions of these hunters described at the begining of this thread, what i take issue with is the posts that followed and people reactions to the OP.
I am a professional conservationist, a true nature lover, i understand our wildlife more than most people and i work everyday to conserve it for very little reward. But i have no problem with raising a gun to shoot a goat or a deer. Its conservation! If you don't believe me ask David Attenbourogh or simply view his fottage of goat culling on the Galapogos Islands.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZrFIcWzSEo