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Attic Extension: PP or no PP needed?

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    #32
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 41,238 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    it appears that Donegal Co Co operate in different ways to the rest of the country.....

    i accept that muffler has, by experience, found out that in donegal, professionals consider attic conversions to be exempt

    The two statements above are the only mention i made of donegal council or professionals... and if anyone thinks that there is a slur or insult there then you are completely incorrect. The first statement i can back up by referring to the 'minor alterations' thread. The second statement is underscored by mufflers own postings.

    the OP stated that he wanted to put in a window to the rear of the roof.... to infer that he doesnt need planning permission is incorrect. I am stubborn and i stand over my opinion. All this non-habitable stuff is nonsence also. Theres no one here arguing that storage space conversions require planning. You cannot convert an attic to create a habitable space without altering the exernal. See ventilation regulations and fire regulations. Any habitable conversion requires planning permission.


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    #33
    smashey
    Registered Users Posts: 21,676 ✭✭✭✭smashey


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    Contact anyone who certifies compliance with planning permission on monday, or any solicitor, (outside donegal, obviously)
    So you exclude the legal profession?


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    #34
    muffler
    Registered Users Posts: 45,881 ✭✭✭✭muffler


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    the OP stated that he wanted to put in a window to the rear of the roof.... to infer that he doesnt need planning permission is incorrect.

    And you are now calling me a liar - this is the first sentence in my first post in this thread
    muffler wrote: »
    You will need permission for that proposal.

    sydthebeat wrote: »
    Without being in any way smart muffler,.... it appears that Donegal Co Co operate in different ways to the rest of the country.....
    That is a slur on the the good people of Donegal.


    At this point in time you should look seriously at your ability to differentiate between fact and fiction. We dont need or want a Walter Mitty type character on this forum.


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    #35
    Mellor
    Registered Users Posts: 39,140 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    This is the document I was looking for last week, couldn't find it.

    http://www.environ.ie/en/DevelopmentandHousing/BuildingStandards/PublicationsDocuments/FileDownLoad,1657,en.pdf

    DOE document published in 2004. List of ammendments available, no change to the below.
    If your house is a protected structure (or a proposed protected structure), under the Planning Act 2000, you may require planning permission for an attic / loft conversion

    Following published 2002
    http://www.environ.ie/en/Publications/DevelopmentandHousing/Planning/FileDownLoad,1586,en.pdf
    13. Can I carry out internal alteration, external repairs
    and maintenance?
    You can carry out any internal alteration you wish as long
    as you do not alter the domestic use of the house.
    External works of repair, maintenance and improvement
    such as painting or replastering do not need planning
    permission so long as they do not materially affect the
    external appearance, thus rendering the appearance
    inconsistent with neighbouring buildings. You may need
    approval for certain external alteration e.g. a new
    connection to a sewer.
    This exemption does not apply to protected structures,
    nor to the subdivision of a house into flats or granny flats.
    Planning permission must be obtained for such works.


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    #36
    muffler
    Registered Users Posts: 45,881 ✭✭✭✭muffler


    Cheers Mellor. Good work.

    I think that kinda concludes the debate.


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    #37
    alinoee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 64 ✭✭alinoee


    just to add this and close the discussion. an extract from Dun Loaghaire RCC FAQs

    http://www.dlrcoco.ie/planning/oftenasked.htm

    4.If I build an attic conversion do I need permission?

    Normally no. However, if work involves dormer windows, permission is needed. If velux windows proposed to the rear, it is exempt. If velux windows proposed to the side/front elevation it is not exempt.


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    #38
    foxfordbuild
    Closed Accounts Posts: 42 ✭foxfordbuild


    I currently have planning permission for a bungalow in Mayo. I am getting the attic done as part of the timberframe spec. I had originally planned on leaving it for a year or more and then converting it completely but it makes more sense financially to do at construction stage. How do I apply for addittional planning for this, is it straight forward and can I start the site works before this is received based on existing permission or will it hold things up. I am also planning a shed of 23 m2 which would be exempt. I would estimate the attic floor space would be in the region of 65 m2 with Velux windows on the rear roof of the house only. I would like to divide this space into 3 rooms - Storage \ Office with open area for entertainment room in between with a fixed staircase.


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    #39
    muffler
    Registered Users Posts: 45,881 ✭✭✭✭muffler


    foxfordbuild wrote: »
    I currently have planning permission for a bungalow in Mayo. I am getting the attic done as part of the timberframe spec. I had originally planned on leaving it for a year or more and then converting it completely but it makes more sense financially to do at construction stage. How do I apply for addittional planning for this, is it straight forward and can I start the site works before this is received based on existing permission or will it hold things up. I am also planning a shed of 23 m2 which would be exempt. I would estimate the attic floor space would be in the region of 65 m2 with Velux windows on the rear roof of the house only. I would like to divide this space into 3 rooms - Storage \ Office with open area for entertainment room in between with a fixed staircase.
    The short answer is that so long as you dont alter the external appearance of the house (with the exception of 3 velux to rear which you are allowed) you should be fine. You will of course have to comply with building regs and you should also check with your architect/engineer that he is happy to sign off on the proposal.


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    #40
    esterelle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1 ✭esterelle


    muffler wrote: »
    The short answer is that so long as you dont alter the external appearance of the house (with the exception of 3 velux to rear which you are allowed) you should be fine. You will of course have to comply with building regs and you should also check with your architect/engineer that he is happy to sign off on the proposal.
    f

    Where did this business of the 3 Velux Windows come from. ABP allowed 6 Veluxes under a Section 5 referral in Killiney recently and that was in the front of a house. There is no numeric limit. I also possess a Section 5 referral from ABP declaring that an attic conversion is exempted development. The works involved are all internal except Velux Windows (normally) the area in question forms part of the house already. No permission required. Issues such as fire regs. etc are not really Planning matters atal. There is no issue here as far as I am concerned.


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    #41
    muffler
    Registered Users Posts: 45,881 ✭✭✭✭muffler


    esterelle wrote: »
    f

    Where did this business of the 3 Velux Windows come from. ABP allowed 6 Veluxes under a Section 5 referral in Killiney recently and that was in the front of a house. There is no numeric limit. I also possess a Section 5 referral from ABP declaring that an attic conversion is exempted development. The works involved are all internal except Velux Windows (normally) the area in question forms part of the house already. No permission required. Issues such as fire regs. etc are not really Planning matters atal. There is no issue here as far as I am concerned.
    Please dont jump in at the tail end of a now near dormant thread and with your first post attempt to drag this both up and off.

    If you feel like replying to the OP then please do so.

    Post up a link to the ABP determination you refer to.


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    #42
    muffler
    Registered Users Posts: 45,881 ✭✭✭✭muffler


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    please do jump in to any discission ongoing on this forum if you fell you have anything positive to add.
    Please drop the back seat modding. Get your own forum if you want to dictate what is welcome and what is not.

    Infraction given


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    #43
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 41,238 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    muffler wrote: »
    Please drop the back seat modding. Get your own forum if you want to dictate what is welcome and what is not.

    Infraction given

    sincere apologises.... i must refrain from saturday night posting....

    again.. apologies.


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    #44
    muffler
    Registered Users Posts: 45,881 ✭✭✭✭muffler


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    sincere apologises.... i must refrain from saturday night posting....

    again.. apologies.
    Maybe include Friday night posting also.

    No more.


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    #45
    Mellor
    Registered Users Posts: 39,140 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    esterelle wrote: »
    f

    Where did this business of the 3 Velux Windows come from. ABP allowed 6 Veluxes under a Section 5 referral in Killiney recently and that was in the front of a house. There is no numeric limit. I also possess a Section 5 referral from ABP declaring that an attic conversion is exempted development. The works involved are all internal except Velux Windows (normally) the area in question forms part of the house already. No permission required. Issues such as fire regs. etc are not really Planning matters atal. There is no issue here as far as I am concerned.
    This is a strange post. If you read through the whole thread you will see that a number of people are of the opinion that an attic conversation is exampt.

    But if you read the latest question fully.
    I currently have planning permission for a bungalow in Mayo. I am getting the attic done as part of the timberframe spec. I had originally planned on leaving it for a year or more and then converting it completely but it makes more sense financially to do at construction stage.
    The work is being carried out during construction of an existing dwelling. As the PP recieve doesn't include the attic it cannot be built at the same time, strictly speaking. ABP muffler posted earlier proves this.
    The OP must either speak to the planner and see if he will allow it, apply for additional PP, or wait until the house is finished then build it exempt.

    The best example of this is the fact that you can't stick 40m2 onto the area of your new build during construction and call it exempt under extension.


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    #46
    foxfordbuild
    Closed Accounts Posts: 42 ✭foxfordbuild


    I have emailed Mayo Co Co in relation to this and am currently awaiting a response. If I do need to get addittional planning am I still able to start construction to foundation level or would I need to wait until amended planning is granted assuming it is. How long would a similar request normally take ?


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    #47
    sinnerboy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,433 ✭✭✭sinnerboy


    you can still start based on permission you have


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    #48
    muffler
    Registered Users Posts: 45,881 ✭✭✭✭muffler


    sinnerboy wrote: »
    you can still start based on permission you have
    Agreed.


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    #49
    foxfordbuild
    Closed Accounts Posts: 42 ✭foxfordbuild


    I got my reply from Mayo Co Co today -
    "Planning Permission is required for what you propose. You should apply to convert attic to usable accommodation and for velux windows."

    My engineer has advised me to wait for a year and then just knock through for the staircase. I have informed the timberframe company of this and location for the staircase so hopefully they will incorporate this into the structure.


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    #50
    sinnerboy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,433 ✭✭✭sinnerboy


    get them to

    oversize attic joists now to act later as floor joists

    floor over now - wall plate to wall plate

    trim the joists to the attic stairway location

    first fix elecs + safely tail

    relocate your water tank to suit finished attic layout

    plumb / cap to future shower room up there ( if that is in future plan )

    locate insulation to run along rafters line now , and plaster to this line ( wall plate to wall plate - don't let them place quilt between joists

    provide roof ventilation to suit warm roof condition , not cold

    trim the rafters now ( and infill ) to future velux locations


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