Should this forum be closed?

watty

Most of the posts seem to be inappropriate:eek::

• Requests about illegal equipment / how to steal cable
• Gripes about NTL/Chorus/UPC
• Questions that could be in Terrestrial or Satellite
• Questions about things only UPC/Chorus/NTL can fix
• Questions answered by UPC Sales/Websites.
• Questions about Cable Broadband (belong in Broadband Forum)

Options:

1. Merge to Terrestrial (also Merge Broadcast to Terrestrial)
2. Rename to IPTV and only use for real IPTV systems
3. Leave as is.

Unlike Satellite & via TV aerial you can't legally add your own outlets, your own equipment or your own MMDS aerial. In 2008 the switch to 100% Digital MMDS will be complete and the amount of analogue cable is likely to be reduced.

kippy

Should it be closed?
Maybe it has run its course at this stage.... But........
Fair play to you for opening up the debate on it. There are a hell of a lot of other forums in here that are far less used/practical and theres no notion of ever closing them.

Dodge

kippy wrote: »

There are a hell of a lot of other forums in here that are far less used/practical and theres no notion of ever closing them.

Agree with that. Obviously I don't have to moderate it but I've found this forum useful.

gerryo

I vote for option 3 (leave as is).

It's a useful forum, eventually the noise about inapropriate stuff will die down. I think it has a few more years life left as is, then it might need to change.

Freddie59

gerryo wrote: »

I vote for option 3 (leave as is).

It's a useful forum, eventually the noise about inapropriate stuff will die down. I think it has a few more years life left as is, then it might need to change.

I would leave as is also Watty. Apart from the illegal thing (which appears to be monitored very closely) and the moans (which is a natural extension of the forum anyway) I find it very good.:)

watty

gerryo wrote: »

I vote for option 3 (leave as is).

It's a useful forum, eventually the noise about inapropriate stuff will die down.

We wish
You don't see the deleted threads

Rosser

Freddie59 wrote: »

Apart from the illegal thing (which appears to be monitored very closely)

Yes but it Watty who has to do all the monitoring

I think leaving well enough alone is reluctantly the best option but the stealing cable service and the really obvious question are a real pain in the a*s

Otherwise it's a great forum and thanks to the moderators and regular contributors

The tax man

Well how do regulars go about helping Watty with the house keeping as such.
(besides reporting posts that have broken the forum rules). Why not have one or two more hosted mods to ease the load on Watty.

tvbrat

I think this fourm is useful and should not be shut down just because some people don't read the Stickys. I guess some people will chance their arm and ask about dodgy boxs.

As with some of the complaints, it can be good to know that other people are going through the same experiences.

Perhaps the Taxman is right and more mods are needed however, and no disrecpect to the Taxman, (he posts some great info) but I would not like to see the forum taken over by UPC employees

I would vote for option 3

The tax man

I understand your point tvbrat. Although you don't see me jumping to UPCs defense on most threads,I just don't post.;)

lawhec

Probably the best idea for a while is to go completely draconian and hand out immediate long-term bans to anyone breaking the rules. The sticky regarding the talk of chipped cable receivers is mentioned in the subject header, they will have seen it before making such a post on this forum - such ignorance is no excuse.

DMC

There is the will here amongst the regulars to keep it open, so, I feel its job of the posters here to help the mods. Use the Report Post if anything is seen as dodgy, I know some have, but its worth reiterating what that red triangle does. It alerts the mods to unsavoury stuff.

I agree with Lawhec, RTFC and long bans for those who don't.

Option 3, with added Kevlar.

lensman

I think leave it as it is for now,...as for the illegal box talk,..I know it's annoying having to lock off these posts/questions every time they show up, perhaps it's possible for the mods to automatically disallow posts which contain certain words like
e*****x, s******w, d******x , just an idea !.
Here's a funny one for ya, a neighbour was having ntl call out to install his digital tv package & gave me his house key so I could let the guys in to complete the installation,..whilst one guy was setting up the stb the other was on his mobile phone selling the above boxes to customers "ah yea der bleedin great !! I'll do ye a dream**x for 250 or a euro**x for 230"
upc are being got at from within & have a difficult battle on their hands if you ask me.

brightspark

Lensman said:

Here's a funny one for ya, a neighbour was having ntl call out to install his digital tv package & gave me his house key so I could let the guys in to complete the installation,..whilst one guy was setting up the stb the other was on his mobile phone selling the above boxes to customers "ah yea der bleedin great !! I'll do ye a dream**x for 250 or a euro**x for 230"
upc are being got at from within & have a difficult battle on their hands if you ask me.

Strictly speaking they are not being got at from "within"; a recent conversation with their "Customer care" dept, disconnections to be precise, revealed that they use independent contractors to maintain their network. So it doesn't surprise me that they are earning money doing "other work"

(Not that I endorse illegal activities)

tvbrat

The tax man wrote: »

I understand your point tvbrat. Although you don't see me jumping to UPCs defense on most threads,I just don't post.;)

Thats very true, as far as I can see you just answer the questions people have about their set-ups

pa990

Leave things as they are

deanh

but I would not like to see the forum taken over by UPC employees

as opposed to being dominated by employees of News International(SKY) or their agents/ installers?

icdg

Well, I need to get in on this thread...

This forum has been quite useful over the last few years what with all the developments/changes as the cable industry consolidated from 5 major players to just one and all the changes that brought about. I still don't think it should close. Yes there has been a rise in illegal activity but that is no reason to close the forum no more than we would close the Satellite forum if Videoguard was cracked tomorrow. I for one think we should continue...

byte

I also still think this forum is useful, despite the constant threads about illegal stuff. I think maybe an iron fist on the subject of illegal hardware, etc will do the job nicely

So, I too think this place should stay as is.

DingDong

deanh wrote: »

but I would not like to see the forum taken over by UPC employees

as opposed to being dominated by employees of News International(SKY) or their agents/ installers?

I don't think their's any chance of this happening. Taxman or myself aren't here to represent UPC in any shape or form. All we do is be as helpful as we can for straight forward question. You won't see me jumping in to defend UPC's less than fantastic customer service either or anything like that.
Either way I think the forum should be left as is.

gerryo

watty wrote: »

We wish
You don't see the deleted threads

I assume most of these are started by posters who just joined up to ask a particular question, in which case banning is probably not going to be a great deterrent or hardship. What's really annoying is the posters who don't read the stickies, it used to be you'd lurk a while before asking anything, guess everybody wants instant answers thesedays :rolleyes:

rogue-entity

The funny thing is, I find if most people can get away without paying for something, especially when they dont perceive it as being theft, they will do it. I know friends and family with DVB-C decoders, all patched to exploit flaws in Nagravision allowing unauthorised decryption of NTL's channels. I had other family members asking me why I hadnt gotten one of them myself. Now truth be told, If a hack existed to allow unauthorised VideoGuard decryption, I would be the first to get a decoder that could, simply because I see Sky's prices as exorbant, and I dont see it as being immoral to steal from them, just as I dont see it as being immoral to get a dodgey copy of Office or Photoshop. THough the fact that everyone does it, doesnt change the fact that its still illegal, that doesnt stop everyone doing it either.

So while I will be the first to say ban the feckers that ask about such illegal gear here, that wont stop them asking elsewhere, and I dont think those that want to discuss DVB-C receivers should be banned either.

And I always found this forum useful myself for discussing some new service or general issues with UPC.

I say leave it as it is.

watty

Assisting in cable theft is a crime.

I agree that Sky is overpriced. Morally the solution is boycott, not theft.

watty

gerryo wrote: »

I assume most of these are started by posters who just joined up to ask a particular question, in which case banning is probably not going to be a great deterrent or hardship. What's really annoying is the posters who don't read the stickies, it used to be you'd lurk a while before asking anything, guess everybody wants instant answers thesedays :rolleyes:

Answers that are typically in the top 3 items in Google.

If Afterdawn want to skate on thin ice, that is their decision.

CO19

How is afterdawn skating on thin ice ? the section of the site where you can talk openly about the boxes has been going for years,how are they able to talk about how to fix,buy etc these boxes and not be in trouble ? even though NTL and Virgin know what goes on on this site,I've always wondered,anyone know ?

Sponge Bob

boards.ie has long had a house policy on no discussion of 'piracy' and 'warez' or any other form of theft of digital assets. The policy on this board is an extension of that overall house policy . If it went otherwise the mod could even be banned , they would certainly be demodded .

Whether other fora are prepared to discuss 'piracy' either in general or mechanistic terms is their business and does not change the house policy on boards, nor need it ever.

Watty must be sick of all the muppets coming in here asking about cable piracy or wanting to discuss it , I even had a load of PMs from one moron on the subject myself .

I support the change .

watty

CO19 wrote: »

How is afterdawn skating on thin ice ? the section of the site where you can talk openly about the boxes has been going for years,how are they able to talk about how to fix,buy etc these boxes and not be in trouble ? even though NTL and Virgin know what goes on on this site,I've always wondered,anyone know ?

If they hosted in Ireland or EU generally, they could in theory face criminal prosecution for aiding cable and satellite theft of service. Unlike copyright this is a criminal not civil issue so a "DPP" can decide to take action.

CO19

Ah I see,thanks watty .

Puggy

Interesting discussion.

Remember what is morally right and what is legally right are often not the same. There are occasions when legally right = morally wrong. Indeed legally right varies with the domain or jurisdiction. And most important when it comes to the law, it is there to protect property and money, especially those of us that already have lots of both.

As a fully paying UPC customer, who does use not any box other than the one supplied, I would find it morally wrong to use an un-official box. All this despite the fact that I can. The only circumstances where I would use such a box are when UPC has no issue with me doing so.

Additionally, the law not only protects against theft, but in this country also protects monopolies. Most of the broadcast legislation in this country is, apart from protecting the broadcast spectrum, chiefly there to assist un-competitive monopolies or cartels, often funded and run if not by central government, then by their friends.

The law in summary is about the protection of wealth from people like you and I. If you steal you only re-enforce this stereotype. If you want to change it, then do as Watty says and boycott. It only takes a few of us!;)

watty

However the monopoly on cable is gone. Anyone can start one now
There never was a Satellite Monopoly
and Licences on offer for DTT since 2001 (No-one wants them).

The problem with competition now is that only in some areas is there the posibility of DTT, Vs Satellite Vs Cable and new Cable or Satellite operators are unlikely given the pentration of Sky Digiboxes (which only take Sky cards) and cost of alternate cable.

There is now plenty of good FTA satellite. If it had existed originally MMDS & Cable would not exist. If everyone boycotted even fro 3 months simultaneously (and takes only 10mins for Sky subs to reconnect), then Sky & UPC would do more customer friendly ala carte packages and lower prices.

It's expensive (especially sport) because people are willing to pay.

icdg

What people who use these boxes need to remember, if everyone used one of these boxes, then NTL would go out of business (or at least, have to drop the digital service) because there would be no way they could ever make a penny out of it. They are a private business not a social service after all. Those who use the boxes would lose out too.

Basically, those of us who are paying our full price subscriptions are subsidising those who don't. And if none of us paid our full price subscriptions those using these boxes would have no service either, they'd need to pay full whack for a (more expensive) BSkyB subscription.

watty

You can be sure Sky would go up 50% if UPC/NTL/Chorus did not have a significant customer base.

BowWow

Leave forum as is. I've found it very good and helpful.

Suggested Bans those who ask about certain things............
1 month ban for those who have less than 10 previous posts when they ask.
3 month ban for those who have more than 10 previous posts when they ask.
6 month ban for those who have more than 50 previous posts when they ask.
No discussions or appeals allowed.........

watty

Permanent Ban for those unable to read?

BowWow

watty wrote: »

Permanent Ban for those unable to read?

Sure, if they cant read, how could they post.........:rolleyes:

Permanent ban for those who wont read........:D

watty

I think a program script that explodes peoples PC when they ask certain stupid questions.

I'm also tempted to offer UPC my ECM skills.

Blaster99

While I haven't read the stickies in this forum, most of the time stickies are quite poor and don't address FAQ's. This whole fascination with banning people is very typical Boards.ie and one of the reasons why I generally find this place quite tedious. If you have to resort to banning people all the time, then something is wrong somewhere.

As for the content of the forum, it's not as if there's a whole lot to discuss about a closed cable system, is there? Obviously NTL can answer all the questions but people for whatever reason like to discuss it here.

On the whole illegal decoder situation, that's so rampant that I'm surprised anyone needs to ask anything about it.

paulm17781

Can you (legally) clamp down on the illegal thing by just sending IPs to UPC? If people who ask here get prosecuted they'll probably stop pretty quick.

CO19

Even if NTL got forwarded your IP address and got your home address they have no authority to enter your home to see if you have a box nor can they bill/prosecute you on just suspicion of having one,they need proof that you are using one.

watty

paulm17781 wrote: »

Can you (legally) clamp down on the illegal thing by just sending IPs to UPC? If people who ask here get prosecuted they'll probably stop pretty quick.

No.
UPC would have to have to complain to garda. This is a criminal, not civil issue.

Then the Garda would have to get a court order to get your time & IP from Boards.ie

Then they would have to get another court order to get your address from your ISP.

Then the Garda have to get a Warrant and search your premises and seize the illegal equipment, then send a case to the DPP.

It's not up to UPC to do anything other than complain to Garda or take electronic counter measures or disconnect you in the street.

If you have connected the cable to the tap in the street your self and only have Analogue TV, then also you break exact same laws as using a pirate Digital Box. UPC can give your Address to Garda and you can be summoned for theft.

watty

Blaster99 wrote: »

While I haven't read the stickies in this forum, most of the time stickies are quite poor and don't address FAQ's. This whole fascination with banning people is very typical Boards.ie and one of the reasons why I generally find this place quite tedious. If you have to resort to banning people all the time, then something is wrong somewhere.

As for the content of the forum, it's not as if there's a whole lot to discuss about a closed cable system, is there? Obviously NTL can answer all the questions but people for whatever reason like to discuss it here.

On the whole illegal decoder situation, that's so rampant that I'm surprised anyone needs to ask anything about it.

Have you ever been on UseNet for chatting? (not IRC, but NTTP). Would you like boards.ie to be full of filth, spam and abuse?

It's the readiness to ban that makes this place bearable at all. It's not a Democracy or even a Web2.0 fake consensus such as Wikipedia. If you don't like how it's run don't come. Board.ie is a privately owned company and relies on hand picked volunteer Moderators. It's been suggested that one of the Mod qualifications is "not asking to be one".

As well as the Stickies of Cable & Digital, the Mods/Posters also created http://bytelive.com/wiki/tiki-custom_home.php for info.
These particular forums where originally an outgrowth of the original ICDG web site and were merged into boards.ie

Have a look at the Satellite, Cable and Terrestrial Stickies and our ICDG encyclopaedia. http://bytelive.com/wiki/tiki-custom_home.php

subway

i dont think the forum should be closed, just because you dont want to moderate anymore.
its not fair on the users, if you want to step down the admins would probably be able to appoint someone in your place.

i dont post here very often, but have a good read of this forum on a regular basis and wouldnt like to lose it just because you dont have time or motivation to lock / delete posts anymore.

edit,
and i see that the question you posed in the topic, is not the question you are asking,
merge it with satellite if thats what you want.

if you remove everything from discussion you will end up with "security" mark 2.
have a read of the charter in there, its very limited what can be posted in there, and dicsussion was / is stifled becusae of it.
leading from that, the forum dies

watty

No-one siad it would be closed or that we (us Mods) didn't want to Moderate.

I'm just stimulating discussion and gathering opinions. Of course neither Board.ie or the Mods need take any notice of opinions either way

subway

well, the title of the thread is very misleading "Should this forum be closed?"

i have to say the number of "box" threads is over the top, how many today already.
it would be very difficult to sensor any words such as "box" "star" and so on, so any attempts to sensor "starview" or whatever theyre called would be futile.

i fully agree that this needs to be controlled, much like the discussion of "warez" etc.
however its just a bad time as these things are hitting critical mass, much like bit torrent did a few years ago and kazaa before that.
weathering the storm comes to mind.

however, the other topics, such as complaints about NTL/Chorus/UPC,
RTFM type questions and so on, are all part of a forum such as this.
there really is no where else for people to go.

if its iptv only, you will literally have 5 posters, me included (and i hate iptv)
if its merged with other disciplines, you will only dilute there discussions, unless they arent overly busy already.

watty

I'd agree the general consensus seems to be "keep the Cable Forum open".

Half time the "boxen ejits" are posting their silly questions in Satellite anyway, so it would do no good.

I'm amazed how many people either can't frame a question for Google or would appear to be unaware of Google.

The AdMonster knows everything.

Jumpy

Would saying that you can find the answers on google be "discussion of illegal boxes?" :rolleyes:

watty

There's more specific questions you can ask Google. However the answers may not be legal.

The tax man

BYE-BYE Muppet.:rolleyes:

LOL not you Watty,just the twat personally insulting you.(posts deleted)

paulm17781

The tax man wrote: »

BYE-BYE Muppet.:rolleyes:

His posts were gone before you posted this.

Agreed though, he fascinated me and posted his mobile number for his services on one thread.

The tax man

Yeah in the time I checked out his other posts and got to reply he was gone.:D

10000maniacs

subway wrote: »

i dont think the forum should be closed, just because you dont want to moderate anymore.
its not fair on the users, if you want to step down the admins would probably be able to appoint someone in your place.

Yes I totally agree.
The forum is useful for anybody with cable.
It would be ridiculous if the cable and Digital TV forum was taken off, but the Wolfenstein forum is still here.:D
If you don't have time to moderate, give it to somebody else.