why is diesel more expensive than petrol ?

green123

diesel used to be much cheaper than petrol , what has changed ?
why is diesel more expensive now ?

C_Breeze

Economic laws of Supply & Demand

ismynametoolong

green123 wrote: »

diesel used to be much cheaper than petrol , what has changed ?
why is diesel more expensive now ?

Think its expensive now wait until the changes in VRT and road tax your name sake the Greens brougth in really kick in and our market changes to a 90% if not more diesel market. Not to mention the increase in Asthma and respitory complaints that the greater use of Diesel fuel will bring

niceirishfella

C_Breeze wrote: »

Economic laws of Supply & Demand

With the price it is at -
€119.9 a litre in places still after the oil price slight decrease recently,its no wonder i know about 3 guys who drive on the green stuff.
One gets it for 88 cent a litre delivered and has been at it for years so even if he does get caught, he'll be happy to pay the fine considering the amount he has saved over the years he informs me.

Eoin

Apparently it's always more expensive during the Winter as more diesel is needed for other uses - heating etc.

L1011

niceirishfella wrote: »

With the price it is at -
€119.9 a litre in places still after the oil price slight decrease recently,its no wonder i know about 3 guys who drive on the green stuff.
One gets it for 88 cent a litre delivered and has been at it for years so even if he does get caught, he'll be happy to pay the fine considering the amount he has saved over the years he informs me.

Isn't "the green stuff" significantly less refined than road diesel? The diesels in my family (Fiat Multijets) get narky on anything in any way dirty, fuel wise, so I suspect running on green or red diesel would probably do long term damage to them and most common rail engines.

craichoe

Absolute rubbish, the green and red stuff are the exact same. The dye is there to differentiate between the two for tax purposes only.

Theres no difference.

Also, its perfectly legal to use it in normal jeeps/cars etc as long as its for agricultural use !!
Its not just for tractors !

cantdecide

Are we likely to see a reduction in petrol prices over the next few years if we all get oilburners??

I'm running a fantasy at the moment where all proper petrol cars are going to fall dramatically in value, and petrol prices etc. etc in the next few years.

machiavellianme

craichoe wrote: »

Absolute rubbish, the green and red stuff are the exact same. The dye is there to differentiate between the two for tax purposes only.

Theres no difference.

Also, its perfectly legal to use it in normal jeeps/cars etc as long as its for agricultural use !!
Its not just for tractors !

Really? Thats why the revenue commissioners target the ploughing championships every year to catch farmers doing whats perfectly legal?
Its not legal to do so if that jeep/car is used on public roads.

Del2005

machiavellianme wrote: »

Really? Thats why the revenue commissioners target the ploughing championships every year to catch farmers doing whats perfectly legal?
Its not legal to do so if that jeep/car is used on public roads.

And it's also illegal for all the people using tractors for road haulage also. When will the revenue start clamping down on this.

JohnCleary

machiavellianme wrote: »

Really? Thats why the revenue commissioners target the ploughing championships every year to catch farmers doing whats perfectly legal?
Its not legal to do so if that jeep/car is used on public roads.

I think what he meant by 'agricultural' use was for on the farm etc. ie. NOT on the PUBLIC road. And as the poster said above, legally any tractor that's used on the public road isin't allowed to use green... doesn't stop the feckers though

Oh remember green can also be used for boats yee haw!!

kluivert

Increase demand in home heating oil in Amercia and Europe lead for Diesel prices to increase.

Green or Red Diesel is not the same as retail diesel. Prolonged use of agri diesel on road cars will damage the fuel pump which is expensive to replace.

See Top Gear S10 24 hour race around Silverstone where they used a BMW 330d, the fuel pump went and they had to take off the whole engine to replace it.

False economy in my opinion.

ianobrien

craichoe wrote: »

Absolute rubbish, the green and red stuff are the exact same. The dye is there to differentiate between the two for tax purposes only.

Theres no difference.

Also, its perfectly legal to use it in normal jeeps/cars etc as long as its for agricultural use !!
Its not just for tractors !

You're wrong there. There are differences in the Sulphur levels, with the Red or road diesel has 50 part per million sulphur, with green diesel levels of 400 plus ppm.

The reason for the difference is that the red diesel has sulphur removed as it is a green house gas (sulphur gets burned, producing SO2. In the upper atmosphere, SO2 reacts with water to produce Sulphuric acid - Acid rain)

maidhc

JohnCleary wrote: »

legally any tractor that's used on the public road isin't allowed to use green... doesn't stop the feckers though

That is completely and utterly wrong. Unfortunately the Irish Statute book website is down so I can't point you to the legislation.

Here, for now an answer from Brian Cowen should suffice:
http://historical-debates.oireachtas.ie/D/0632/D.0632.200702270157.html

JohnCleary

maidhc wrote: »

That is completely and utterly wrong. Unfortunately the Irish Statute book website is down so I can't point you to the legislation.

Here, for now an answer from Brian Cowen should suffice:
http://historical-debates.oireachtas.ie/D/0632/D.0632.200702270157.html

Well ya learn somethin new every day. I'm gonna stick 6ft wheels on the beemer and say its a tractor... yee haw!

maidhc

JohnCleary wrote: »

Well ya learn somethin new every day. I'm gonna stick 6ft wheels on the beemer and say its a tractor... yee haw!

Humm, not the worst idea in the world!

macnab

ianobrien wrote: »

You're wrong there. There are differences in the Sulphur levels, with the Red or road diesel has 50 part per million sulphur, with green diesel levels of 400 plus ppm.

Green diesel is white diesel with a green dye added, are you saying that there are 2 different types of white diesel i.e. a more refined one for road use?

demanufactured

Lads Red Diesel no longer exists , Its now Green Diesel

Normal white diesel is for road use.

Your all confusing each other

maidhc

macnab wrote: »

Green diesel is white diesel with a green dye added, are you saying that there are 2 different types of white diesel i.e. a more refined one for road use?

I would say absolutely not. Why would there be?

A modern tractor has a similar injection system to a car, e.g. high pressure direct injection/common rail.

macnab

maidhc wrote: »

I would say absolutely not. Why would there be?

A modern tractor has a similar injection system to a car, e.g. high pressure direct injection/common rail.

Yeah, thats what I was thinking. AFAIK the agri diesel in the north is red.
But to answer the original question, simply put: supply and demand.

Del2005

maidhc wrote: »

That is completely and utterly wrong. Unfortunately the Irish Statute book website is down so I can't point you to the legislation.

Here, for now an answer from Brian Cowen should suffice:
http://historical-debates.oireachtas.ie/D/0632/D.0632.200702270157.html

Happy days, what does one of them JCB roadmasters go for??

demanufactured wrote: »

Lads Red Diesel no longer exists , Its now Green Diesel

Normal white diesel is for road use.

Your all confusing each other

Red diesel is used up North and green down here. They changed the colours years back to stop smuggling of marked gas oil across the border as there was a large price difference, and I think the North was much cheaper at the time.

maidhc

Del2005 wrote: »

Happy days, what does one of them JCB roadmasters go for??

They are officially limited to 50kph and so are classified as agricultural tractors. If people remove the limiters they are supposed to use clear diesel. You can guess yourself what happens.

http://www.independentlaboratory.ie/fuel_spin.html

the maximum sulphur level allowed for diesel in the Republic is 350 ppm,

Marked gas oil has around 1500 ppm, so in the book of evidence for the Prosecution, the Customs can use simple calculations to present their version of what happened.

ianobrien

macnab wrote: »

Green diesel is white diesel with a green dye added, are you saying that there are 2 different types of white diesel i.e. a more refined one for road use?

What I'm saying is that the Diesel sold for road use is an ultra low sulphur diesel, with a max sulphur level of 50ppm (I tested enough of it!). It's commonly called City Diesel in the UK. All the diesel produced by Whitegate is ultra low sulphur diesel, well it was when I was there.

Agricultural diesel has a no upper sulphur level, and as such, the sulphur is not removed during production.

I'm fairly sure that the distillation levels are different as well, with the agricultural diesel having more heavy constituents and less lubricants.

ianobrien

ianobrien wrote: »

What I'm saying is that the Diesel sold for road use is an ultra low sulphur diesel, with a max sulphur level of 50ppm (I tested enough of it!). It's commonly called City Diesel in the UK. All the diesel produced by Whitegate is ultra low sulphur diesel, well it was when I was there.

Agricultural diesel has a no upper sulphur level, and as such, the sulphur is not removed during production.

I'm fairly sure that the distillation levels are different as well, with the agricultural diesel having more heavy constituents and less lubricants.

can you tell me if there is a difference between low sulphur shell diesel and diesel sold at other pumps? as no one else advertises explicitly that their diesel is low sulphur?
anyone know where you can get biodiesel at the pump?

ianobrien

Deleted User wrote: »

can you tell me if there is a difference between low sulphur shell diesel and diesel sold at other pumps? as no one else advertises explicitly that their diesel is low sulphur?
anyone know where you can get biodiesel at the pump?

No. When I was in Whitegate (Oil refinery) ALL diesel to be sold at the pumps was low sulphur diesel.

TheNog

I am completely lost on this red and white diesel but yeehay

someone please explain the difference?

niceirishfella

TheNog wrote: »

I am completely lost on this red and white diesel but yeehay

someone please explain the difference?

well, looking at the expensive liquid visually -

one's red and one's green...........................:)

damoz

Getting back to the original topic - can anyone put forward a rational explanation as to why Ireland and Slovakia are the only 2 countries in western Europe where diesel is more expensive than petrol. If this was a world supply and demand issue then surely all countries would follow a similar pattern. It seems that the forecourts in Ireland are using Diesel to boost their bottom lines.

r3nu4l

damoz wrote: »

Getting back to the original topic - can anyone put forward a rational explanation as to why Ireland and Slovakia are the only 2 countries in western Europe where diesel is more expensive than petrol. If this was a world supply and demand issue then surely all countries would follow a similar pattern. It seems that the forecourts in Ireland are using Diesel to boost their bottom lines.

If you read the whole thread you'd know that Ireland and Slovakia are not the only two countries in the EU where diesel is more expensive than petrol. In England Diesel has been more expensive for years. In my local garage Unleaded is £1.049 per litre and diesel is £1.079 per litre.

EDIT: I'm obviously thinking of a different thread...but now you know

L1011

ianobrien wrote: »

No. When I was in Whitegate (Oil refinery) ALL diesel to be sold at the pumps was low sulphur diesel.

And not 100% of fuel sold in Ireland comes through Whitegate...

ianobrien

MYOB wrote: »

And not 100% of fuel sold in Ireland comes through Whitegate...

I never said that.....

L1011

ianobrien wrote: »

I never said that.....

You implied it, read post 24 again.

Tony Danza

MYOB wrote: »

You implied it, read post 24 again.

No he didn't.

Ianobrien, just to back up what you are saying for any doubters,

http://www.ec.gc.ca/cleanair-airpur/CAOL/OGEB/fuels/reports/sulph_red_diesel/sulph_red2_e.htm

finbarrk

It looks like Diesel is going to stay more expensive than petrol here because of the increase of diesel cars that is bound to happen later on this year.

yayamark

So would i be right in saying the demand for petrol and petrol cars is going to decrease, which means the price of petrol and petrol cars will decrease.?

i know the tax will be more expensive but in the long run will it not all be much of a muchness? meaning petrol car owners will be screwed for tax but will buy cheap cars and cheap petrol.

Edit im on about cars above 2.0L

E92

finbarrk wrote: »

It looks like Diesel is going to stay more expensive than petrol here because of the increase of diesel cars that is bound to happen later on this year.

Absolutely. There is no way that diesel is going to get any cheaper. After all, diesels usually do 30% more miles to the gallon, so every extra diesel car is contributing at least 30% less to the Government(and more because the excise duty for diesel is lower) every time they fill up, and as many cars will be cheaper to buy as diesels, there is no way the Government is going to let us get away with buying cheaper cars that will use less fuel.