Cheapest 280bhp+ car out there

JHMEG

As the title says. I am thinking of getting something with serious poke and a serious drink problem before petrol prices get completely out of hand.

Only two critera:
Cheap
Manual
Road worthy/legal
4 seats
Sh!t fast

Can't be a behemoth like a 740 which is not fast and not for hooring around in.

Ideas:
250bhp '93 Celica GT4 can be had for under 6k, but don't like the look of them (I would take one tho if stuck).
280bhp Soarer 2.5 twin turbo can be had for 4k but manual ones are like hen's teeth.

More?

peasant

http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carid=869124

Not quite 250+ bhp ...but sh!t fast nonetheless.

Across the water you could probaly find yourself the 230 bhp manual Aero for similar money ...that's scarily fast.

Plus it's sort of stealth fast, doesn't draw much attention and causes quite a few surprised faces

mick.fr

It is a shame for a 2.3l engine to have to have a turbo to hit 200hp, isn't?

peasant

horses isn't all my friend ...torque, tons of it and at the right rev range, that's what produces the smiles

mick.fr

peasant wrote: »

horses isn't all my friend ...torque, tons of it and at the right rev range, that's what produces the smiles

Well yeah sure but other manufacturers, like hum let say, BMW, have similar engine CC with similar HP and no turbo to it.
Plus a bimmer looks more sexy than a Saab 9000.

JHMEG

peasant wrote: »

http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carid=869124

Not quite 250+ bhp ...but sh!t fast nonetheless.s

Interesting. Are they RWD or AWD tho? If FWD, tuning is kinda out of the question.

peasant

FWD, I'm afraid ...

Earth Worm Jim

JHMEG wrote: »

As the title says. I am thinking of getting something with serious poke and a serious drink problem before petrol prices get completely out of hand.

Only two critera:
Cheap
Manual
Road worthy/legal
4 seats
Sh!t fast

Can't be a behemoth like a 740 which is not fast and not for hooring around in.

Ideas:
250bhp '93 Celica GT4 can be had for under 6k, but don't like the look of them (I would take one tho if stuck).
280bhp Soarer 2.5 twin turbo can be had for 4k but manual ones are like hen's teeth.

More?

I know you don't want a 740 - but what about a 850 t5/t5r or a v/s70 t5/t5r - serious power and speed - you can pick cheap ex cop car ones in uk - and the ex police ones are remaped for more bhp - had a go in one a couple of years ago - seriously quick and solid.

maidhc

Supra 2.5 Twin turbo?

Max_Damage

Vauxhall Senator 3.0L Dual Ram if you can find one.

They come up on eBay UK from time to time. Alot of the ex-police models were manuals too. They are a change from the usual.

A Vauxhall Lotus Carlton would also be a nice choice if the prices was right!

Owen

I have a colleague who has a few Senators, amongst other large engined cars, and he loves them. I had a spin in one, and it was a great car to drive.

JHMEG

maidhc wrote: »

Supra 2.5 Twin turbo?

Supras are mad expensive. (I looked at 3.0 TT.. not many going for less than about 12k)

Vauxhaull Lotus Carlton is an interesting choice alright, and I'd love one.. but they're also mad expensive?

Max_Damage

JHMEG wrote: »

Vauxhall Lotus Carlton is an interesting choice alright, and I'd love one.. but they're also mad expensive?

Afraid so: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1991-VAUXHALL-LOTUS-CARLTON-TURBO-GREEN_W0QQitemZ280179773013QQihZ018QQcategoryZ43114QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

They're already a modern classic, and VERY rare, only about 1,000 of the Vauxhall-branded RHD versions were made.

An alternative to the Lotus Carlton or the Senator is the Vauxhall Carlton GSi 3000. They were the model just below the Lotus Carlton, and they are much cheaper too.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1989-VAUXHALL-CARLTON-GSI-WHITE_W0QQitemZ250200656547QQihZ015QQcategoryZ9858QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

I'd get rid of the garish alloys on this example though.

JHMEG

Max_Damage wrote: »

Afraid so:

Yeah, but they were stupidly fast (385bhp IIRC). So much so that the UK police wanted them banned.:D Pity they're still a mad price.

Max_Damage wrote: »

An alternative to the Lotus Carlton or the Senator is the Vauxhall Carlton GSi 3000.

What kind of poke from those? RWD I presume?

E92

mick.fr wrote:

It is a shame for a 2.3l engine to have to have a turbo to hit 200hp, isn't?

Sure BMW were getting 192 bhp for an NA 2.5 back in 1991! Sure these days BMW are getting more from a non turbo 2.0 than Saab are from the basic turbo 2.0 and only 5 less than the mid range 2.0 turbo! And they can get more from a 2.0 diesel than a VW Golf GTi!

Anyway, back on topic.

The Opel Lotus Omega to give the "Lotus Carlton" it's proper name I would say must surely got for quite a sum, as only 320 were ever made in RHD(as Vauxhalls of course!) And I wonder how many of them are still around now?

I think I would have an E24 M635CSi if I were in JHMEG's position. 286 bhp, which even by today's standards is a lot for a 3.5 litre engine. They had one on Wheeler Dealers(though it was only the standard non M version which still has a not inconsiderable 211 bhp)and some were as cheap as £350(though they must be sh1te). Or a Sierra Cosworth. Or an Escort Cosworth, the car famous for being more expensive to insure than it was for Jeremy Clarkson to buy new! Or a Lancia Delta Integrale(they were contrary to popular belief available in RHD, though finding one that works and in RHD would be like trying to find a needle in a haystack!). Or even a Mercedes 190 Cosworth(this of course ifs from the days when Merc built cars to last).You did say you wanted something a bit mad:D.

I always liked fast Fords, and I have no idea why(they,like the Lancia were 4WD only). Of course the problem with all of these cars will be trying to find a good one, and by the time a good one is found it could be July and the higher VRT and road tax it will bring(if you import)!

unkel

Early Impreza / Evo?

peasant

E92 wrote: »

Sure BMW were getting 192 bhp for an NA 2.5 back in 1991! Sure these days BMW are getting more from a non turbo 2.0 than Saab are from the basic turbo 2.0 and only 5 less than the mid range 2.0 turbo! And they can get more from a 2.0 diesel than a VW Golf GTi!

Here's why you want that turbo:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ht6dWv-7gpQ

80 km/h to 170-180 km/h in how many seconds ? :D:D


And all in the one gear.

They calls it torque ...the one thing no (petrol) beemer ever had (except for the V8's)

There IS a world outside Munich, you know ...



@JHMEG ...sorry for going off topic ...but this constant BMW worshipping makes me narky

bazz26

How about a Z car:
http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=798404

or the RX-7:
http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=836117

or the forgotten GTO:
http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=867849

cps_goodbuy

There was a '95 supra on ebay about a month ago, it was in good nick, irish, and in ireland, person tried to sell it, nothing, he wanted 5000 for it and it took him awhile to sell.

If you'd like some fun...

Get any '90's high powered car, I mean, there are so many! Just get rwd and maybe one thats relativly safe.

An old 944? I'm building a list in my mind as I type..but

....actually.... sleeeepp zzzz

Will get back to this ....zzzz... sometime with a big big list...zzzz

Biro

Some legend cars mentioned above, but really... Top Gear did the test and all 3 agreed that if you want to buy a cheap sports car for every day use, buy anything you like as long as it's japanese. And they have a very good point.
What you need is a Mitsubishi 3000GT. 4WD, 3 litre twin turbo, 286bhp (with tuning potential) and active aerodynamics! Sure it's not the most refined handling car that came out of Japan, but at the price they're going for in the UK they're hard to ignore! Or you could opt for a 300ZX.

Edit: Ah! Beaten to the GTO suggestion!

cps_goodbuy

+1 for GTO

cps_goodbuy

+1 for the 3000GT ... zzzzZzzz

SouperComputer

peasant wrote: »

Here's why you want that turbo:

At last someone with sense! Take an E36 and the aformentioned Saab, put both in 2nd gear at 1500RPM (or any gear for that matter) and you will quickly notice the difference. Its called flexibility. Good torque provided throughout the rev range, unlike some modern TDi's . That said, a Saab hasn't been the same since GM started digging their claws in

Sure, with the right cam profiles & porting etc, you could easily get 150BHP\L or even more but it wont be flexible. Some people like that sort of thing, personally I think it should stay on the track.

If you want to take a chance on an M-Tech i6, then an E34 M5 is another option. Both it and the 635csi have the same engine which is generally sturdy, but they cost a sickening amount of money to repair/rebuild when they let go.

If you really want to burn pertol you could pickup a muscle car from over this side of the pond for buttons. Completely different supra or soarer of course, but it would be eligible for classic tax and insurance. Nothing like having a car that looses 2in of ground clearance on one side when you rev it hehe.


Whats your budget JHMEG? A well cared for RX-7 would be a great car too. The Volvo 850/V70 T5 (although FWD) are great value.

What about somthing like a Lotus 7 / Caterham / Robin Hood. Although not many are 250 BHP they would easily make mincemeat of most of the above cars due to their low weight and excellent handling.

Not quite road legal yet, but would probably eat the carlton fro breakfast, up to 140 anyway:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/MK-SPORTS-CAR-SUZUKI-GSXR-ENGINE-caterham-track-kit-car_W0QQitemZ280185316154QQihZ018QQcategoryZ29750QQcmdZViewItem

S.I.R

imo go for a saab 9000 2.5 turbo , 6spped manual , 4 door , toooo much tourqe

and if the 2.0 liter one i had is anything to go by.... either buy that or a e30 bmw , nothing else is near as good.

but still theres a few favorites that might be of intrest like the lancer evo I-VII , mid aged twin turbo rx-7 and the unforgettable toyota mr2 ( dirt cheap and can be brought well past 250 hp. )

though if you wanted a pussy magnet or something stupid like that , buy a celica , if you want a car that will only get the stupid car nerds aroused , buy a e36 bmw , if you want something cool , buy a saab 9000.

whatever you do , don't buy a civic.

Henry Ford III

I had to laugh at some of the replies here.

OP stated he wanted 250+bhp cheaply, and low and behold many of our have a go heroes, complete with their top trumps car cards, suggest cars with less than that level of power.

maidhc

I thought the 1990ish supras were making very very handy money. Not sure when the 2.5 came out, but even a 3.0 turbo would be a hoot.

I regularly see n/a 3.0s on ebay for well under 1k.

E92

peasant wrote: »

They calls it torque ...the one thing no (petrol) beemer ever had (except for the V8's)

Well I don't think JHMEG will be appreciative of that,if this response is anything to go by:

JHMEG wrote: »

Common misunderstanding. The diesel is probably quicker in top gear than the petrol. But hey that's what gears are for: Drop a cog or two in the petrol and the diesel will get left behind, especially when the torque multiplier comes effect comes in with the higher revving petrol.

Now this wasn't to do with a petrol turbo specifically of course, but it's the same idea, because this was a comparison of a car with 232 lb ft of torque and 272 bhp versus a car with 369 lb ft of torque and 233 bhp. And JHMEG was clearly of the opinion that no matter what torque you have, bhp is the only thing that counts really! So I don't think the torque of the lack of it is going to be a problem. And what is wrong with a petrol BMW having no torque? It means you have to work the balls off the engine and hear that wonderful sounding straight 6 a lot more:D.

And I wasn't suggesting to the OP to buy the aforementioned BMW with 192 bhp(because I know he'll turn his nose up at a BMW anyway:D), so I wouldn't be getting worried!

peasant wrote: »

There IS a world outside Munich, you know ...

Of course there is. Hence my other suggestions, including Fords, a Lancia and even a Merc:eek:. But the BMW is the only one that meets the OP's requirement of 250 bhp+.

unkel

Want horses, want torque?

Buy an old E34 M5 and do some DIY. This one has >1100BHP and >1100NM. It's fast

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLLOvn08oCg

JHMEG

Some good suggestions there. I have no budget as such, looking for the max bhp/euro that's cheap.

Didn't realise the RX7 TT could be had for so little, tho @ 7k for 300bhp it's bhp/euro ratio isn't class leading!
300zx is quite a heavy car, and has a poor bhp/euro ratio too.
The GTO is quite cheap and has a good bhp/euro ratio.

635 is not a runner. 12k for a 1988, and most are autos. And they're heavy and not especially powerful.

Normally aspirated Supra is a Slopra.

I'm not looking for buckets of torque as I don't mind dropping gear. I'm looking for buckets of power tho.

JHMEG

unkel wrote: »

Want horses, want torque?

Buy an old E34 M5 and do some DIY. This one has >1100BHP and >1100NM. It's fast

Unkel, the basic problem with BMWs is that they're all normally aspirated. To get stupid power you have to spend stupid money on turbos.

unkel

JHMEG wrote: »

Unkel, the basic problem with BMWs is that they're all normally aspirated. To get stupid power you have to spend stupid money on turbos.

Yep, your man must have spent a fortune. That friggin thing is faster than a Veyron :eek:

How fast are you looking for, BTW? I presume you won't take it to the track (requirement for 4 seats)? Are the seats only for (small) children or do they need to fit adults? Does it have to be manual, or is tiptronic ok too? If it isn't you can rule out most relatively modern ('90s) saloons. So it has to be RWD / 4WD too?

I agree an RX-7 TT for €7k seems tempting. I'd read up on them a bit first though

E92

How about one of these?286 bhp and no Nikasil problem and the more reliable version of the M3 for 7.5k?

Or for €500 more this M3, which is also not the evo version and is 2 years newer?

Or early 90's(E34) M5(minimum 315 bhp, 340 after 92, though they are meant to be an expensive bus to run)?

Or a Skyline, which of course would have Japanese reliability and 276 bhp if it's a GT-R?

An RX-7 is a temperamental beast, isn't it? It needs a complete engine rebuild every 40,000 miles and drinks more petrol than Shane McGowan drinks alcohol! And that Wankel engine has a reputation for unreliability too IIRC.

JHMEG

E92 wrote: »

286 bhp and no Nikasil problem and the more reliable version of the M3 for 7.5k?

It's probably the closest I'd get in a BMW, but it's less bang/buck than the RX7 and a lot less than a GTO. The attractive thing about turbocharged cars is that they haven't reached their limit.. a remap for example and you can dial up the power relatively cheaply. A normally aspirated BMW has reached the end of the road..

E92 wrote: »

Or early 90's(E34) M5(minimum 315 bhp, 340 after 92, though they are meant to be an expensive bus to run)?

M5 is a seriously heavy car tho, and like all BMWs aint gonna get any faster.

E92 wrote: »

Or a Skyline, which of course would have Japanese reliability and 276 bhp if it's a GT-R?

Yes, Skyline is an option, but the GTR is not cheap, tho the single turbo models are a lot cheaper.

E92 wrote: »

An RX-7 is a temperamental beast,

It sure is and while it's the most exotic of the 300ZX/GTO/RX7 trio it's not a runner. Pity as it's able to give the NSX a serious run for its money.

Unkel, the ability to store the 2 kids in the back and as fast as possible. Track use is probably a non runner. Trashing a 15 year old car might pop a ball joint (the car equivalent of needing a hip replacement).

In all honesty I'd say the GTO is looking like the only serious contender at the moment. Kinda surprised there hasn't been more mention of the 944 turbo...

Henry Ford III

JHMEG wrote: »

...Track use is probably a non runner. Trashing a 15 year old car might pop a ball joint (the car equivalent of needing a hip replacement).

.....Kinda surprised there hasn't been more mention of the 944 turbo...

I regularly (once a year ) tonk an almost 29 year old car around a track. What's is a performance car for after all. You can't go fast on the roads.

944 Turbo - a fine bus. but buy carefully. Many will have reversed into hedges or worse at speed. A good car, which has been well taken care of, could be a shrewd purchase.

SouperComputer

given your taste for Jap cars JHMEG are you considering importing from the far side?

JHMEG

SouperComputer wrote: »

given your taste for Jap cars JHMEG are you considering importing from the far side?

Don't think I'd be arsed, well not for the money anyway.

Biro

JHMEG wrote: »

Don't think I'd be arsed, well not for the money anyway.

I think you'd pick up a cleaner 3000GT from UK than a GTO from Japan. Many GTO's I've seen look a little worn out, where as more than half of the 3000GT's seem a little better looked after. I think it's your winner really. GTR's are too expensive. You should get a 3000GT to 400bhp properly for maybe €2k...

Cosmo K

Why not try something a little bit more .......unusual;)


http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=464361


not something you see every day

unkel

Oh dear! :eek:

Some cars really should stay JDM only...

JHMEG

unkel wrote: »

Oh dear! :eek:

Some cars really should stay JDM only...

That car was available here, and actually looks alright in the flesh.. EDIT: "the SVX had curvy, almost futuristic, lines designed by Giorgetto Giugiaro of ItalDesign" according to wikipedia.

Only 230bhp tho, iirc, and no promise of more as there's no turbo...

unkel

Bedamned. More than 2,000 were sold in Europe according to that article. I can't recall ever seeing one though

You could always buy one and put a turbo on it like this dude

Max_Damage

The Subaru SVX never came with a manual transmission from the factory, although alot of them were converted to manual as an aftermarket job. That one for sale on CZ could be one of those, as it's stated as a manual in the description.

smash

I have a 96 GTO and I would recommend it, but get the facelift model after 94 I think. I'll be selling mine soon.

JHMEG

steve06 wrote: »

I have a 96 GTO and I would recommend it, but get the facelift model after 94 I think. I'll be selling mine soon.

Didn't the GTO get fatter with each new version tho, making an early more most desireable?

IrishRover

Would you consider starting with a 2 litre turbo at around 200bhp, then creating a proper cold air induction, larger front mounted intercooler, freeflowing downpipe and exhaust, and fitting a manual boost controller and increasing the boost a bit, but within sensible levels, for realistic power gains approaching the 250bhp mark?

Volvoboy

JHMEG wrote: »

As the title says. I am thinking of getting something with serious poke and a serious drink problem before petrol prices get completely out of hand.

Only two critera:
Cheap
Manual
Road worthy/legal
4 seats
Sh!t fast

Can't be a behemoth like a 740 which is not fast and not for hooring around in.

Ideas:
250bhp '93 Celica GT4 can be had for under 6k, but don't like the look of them (I would take one tho if stuck).
280bhp Soarer 2.5 twin turbo can be had for 4k but manual ones are like hen's teeth.

More?

Another contender; http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=731437

Only has 240bhp tho



-VB-

smash

If you really want some, have a look at one of these - http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/294585.htm

they are a great car and the power is amazing. In my opinion you should get one, and that's coming from a GTO owner... it will possibly be my next car!

nah_biy!

Supercar that featured in Top Trumps

http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=Car&carID=839647&message=You%20searched%20for%3A%20Renault%20Alpine%2C%20Car%2E%20Your%20search%20returned%20one%20vehicle%2C%20which%20is%20shown%20below%2E&CFID=4662315&CFTOKEN=89379327

JHMEG

steve06 wrote: »

If you really want some, have a look at one of these

Curious choice, but I think 220bhp is the limit that can be put thru the front wheels, which is well off what I'm after. Is your GTO normally aspirated?

VB, that yoke would be out for the same reason a 7 series would be out.. I'm looking for a fast car, not a cabin cruiser to bring out on the Shannon!:p

IrishRover, I'd really like to start around 280bhp, and if I like it and feel like spending a few quid take it up from there. 1000bhp is a practical limit:D

Max_Damage

Something a bit American maybe:

http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=687996

or

http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=838775

smash

JHMEG wrote: »

Curious choice, but I think 220bhp is the limit that can be put thru the front wheels, which is well off what I'm after. Is your GTO normally aspirated?

VB, that yoke would be out for the same reason a 7 series would be out.. I'm looking for a fast car, not a cabin cruiser to bring out on the Shannon!:p

IrishRover, I'd really like to start around 280bhp, and if I like it and feel like spending a few quid take it up from there. 1000bhp is a practical limit:D

My GTO is running about 250 and a friend has a GTV running about 290 and it's an animal of a car. It's going in next month to get bored out to a 3.8 so it will be pushing 400bhp.

here's the actual car - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9Ud0JyPJO4