Waterford is a City not a town

Bards

Attn all Waterford Boardies. I read a recent post where the poster labeled the City a 'town'; if we can't call Waterford a City, how do we expect to be treated like one. You will never hear a kilkenny person label their "city" a town

enough with the town business... we need a University and we can't expect one if we constantly label ourselves a town . Yes I know it is a Freudian slip but it should be erased from our every day vocabulary

please remember this especially when talking with outsiders.


I heard Cllr Halligan on National Radio say and I will paraphrase "compared to other towns of the same size we have the same drug problmes as those other big towns"

this is an extract from the NRA web site regarding the new kilkenny ring road - notice the difference
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Minister for Trade and Commerce, John McGuinness T.D. has officially opened the €34.5m N77 Kilkenny Ring Road Extension, today (Tuesday, 18th December 2007).

John McGuinness T.D., Minister for Trade and Commerce, said, “As the city of Kilkenny continues to grow local business and tourism will directly benefit as a result of improvements to the local road infrastructure. The opening of the N77 Kilkenny Ring Road Extension is another important link, extending the Kilkenny Ring Road from the N10 Carlow Road Roundabout to the N77 Castlecomer Road. This will prove to be of immense value to the future economic growth and development of this thriving city. A total length of just 4km, I am acutely aware of the positive impact this scheme will have in my home city by reducing journey times. In a wider context regional connectivity will also be greatly enhanced. All road users will benefit along with the private, commercial and tourist sectors as a result of improved access along the route coupled with safer road conditions and a better quality of life for city folk.

Under Transport 21, the Government’s investment plans for transport will not just benefit Kilkenny but the whole of the Southeast region. The Dublin to Waterford motorway will be completed in 2010. This will significantly aid the movement of people and goods within the region and ensure that Kilkenny City and the Southeast remains competitive into the next decade.”

Peter Malone, Chairman, National Roads Authority commented: “As a growing centre of commerce and tourism the city of Kilkenny will benefit directly from the completion of the N77 Kilkenny Ring Road Extension because it is a key component in allowing for better distribution of national and regional traffic around Kilkenny city. Throughout the country I have seen tremendous benefits brought to towns and cities and for Kilkenny specifically, it will create a safer and more pleasant environment for locals and the thousands of tourists who flock to this historic city. It is important for the NRA to bring quality of life improvements throughout the country by reduced travel times and bringing you closer to family, businesses, and other transportation options. The provision of world-class infrastructure is critical if Ireland is to remain competitive. The NRA, under the Government’s Transport 21 Plan, is committed to improving the national road network serving the southeast resulting in shorter travel times, certainty of journey duration and safer road conditions and ultimately a better future."

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Rant over... just one of my PET hates

mike65

I'm tempted to say get a life y'know!

Some boardsie (one of 130,000) says town, big deal. As for the member for KK he and all of them will continue to call the seat of the Ormondes a city until hell freezes over regradless of the legal/technical reality.

Mike.

mikemac

Not just a city but Ireland's oldest city

Waterford (from the Old Norse: Veðrafjǫrðr meaning "Ram fjord" or Windy fjord; Irish: Port Láirge, meaning Hilly Shore) is a city in the Ireland. It is the primary city of the South East region, and the fifth largest in the country. Founded in 914 AD, by the Vikings, it is Ireland's oldest city.[1]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waterford

Who cares anyway? Sure people call Sligo a town and a city and it's no big deal.
All investment won't be pulled from the area just because people call it a town

mike65

My own feeling is that we should go back to the norse name rather than its Anglosized variataion. I think Vedrafjord sound better and would be more eye-catching and would therefore bring in more investment esp from Nordic countires.

Mike.

Stokolan

I always call it town, force of habbit and I shall continue to do so.

RxQueen

Stokolan wrote: »

I always call it town, force of habbit and I shall continue to do so.

+1

Sully

Doesnt make a whole lot of difference what we call it:- The law states we are a city on all counts and thats what matters the most.

dlofnep

mike65 wrote: »

My own feeling is that we should go back to the norse name rather than its Anglosized variataion. I think Vedrafjord sound better and would be more eye-catching and would therefore bring in more investment esp from Nordic countires.

Mike.

I agree!

ChapOfDRyans

there is only 5 citys in ireland galway,limerick,cork,dublin and waterford i could be wrong

and i always end up having an argument with friends over kilkenny is it a city or not
i think its not a city just a town as i said only 5 citys in the country

starn

Waterford is a town dudes. Just because it spwrals all over the place doesent make it a City. Deal with it.

jmcc

ChapOfDRyans wrote: »

there is only 5 citys in ireland galway,limerick,cork,dublin and waterford i could be wrong

and i always end up having an argument with friends over kilkenny is it a city or not
i think its not a city just a town as i said only 5 citys in the country

Legally KK is a city. Reality, however is a different matter.

Waterford is a city. Waterford is Ireland's First City.

Regards...jmcc

mike65

Waterford is a town dudes. Just because it spwrals all over the place doesent make it a City. Deal with it.

heh someone who does'nt understand law.

Mike.

smaoifs

I always have my address down as Waterford City but because I live so close, if I'm asked where I'm going, I say into town or down town. I never say into the city because I'm already in the city. Just a phrase that's used. My family in Cork are the same, they describe it as going into town if they're going into the city.

AdMMM

I'm the same. I'll always say that I'm going into town or out on the town, whatever's apt. I thought this was a common saying... and not just in Waterford.

mike65

I can only assume Bards is not thinking of 'town' in that sense.

Mike.

AdMMM

Yeah that's what confused me. Obviously we're a city by name but central business district just doesn't do anything for me when describing the city centre.

ex_infantry man

this post is just pointless everyone says if there going into the city centre that there goin to town even us tramore heads

just-wonderin

ChapOfDRyans wrote: »

there is only 5 citys in ireland galway,limerick,cork,dublin and waterford i could be wrong

and i always end up having an argument with friends over kilkenny is it a city or not
i think its not a city just a town as i said only 5 citys in the country

kk is the finest city of all the old captial, but what about Belfast and Derry

mike65

Last I heard they were in another country.

Mike.

Bards

I am trying to portray to everyone the need to differentiate Waterord City from Waterford Town. we need to loose the town mindset or else we will end up a town before we know it, then it will be too late to complain

instead of saying "the town is in a dreadful state" say that "the City Centre is in a dreadful state"

it is through the use of common everyday speech which differentiates us, and if we start to use the phrase City Centre instead of town we won't end up making a fool of ourselves on national radio (like a prominent Councillor) and helping the dublin media win the battle by being able to say "sure aren't they only a town anyhow"

mike65

instead of saying "the town is in a dreadful state" say that "the City Centre is in a dreadful state"

Okay thats it, you have lost me. the use of Town as outlined above is a colloquialism and as such perfectly acceptable. For Gods sake London is a town for many those who live there (and are the type who can call themselves proper-order Londoners).

Mike.

Bards

mike65 wrote: »

Okay thats it, you have lost me. the use of Town as outlined above is a colloquialism and as such perfectly acceptable. For Gods sake London is a town for many those who live there (and are the type who can call themselves proper-order Londoners).

Mike.

that's all well and good, but do you no see that something is rotten when our politicians go on National Radio (RTE Morning Ireland) and start sprouting on about Waterford Town and comparing us to other big towns (it all starts by it being in everyday speech). This is a sad fact that I heard recently and couldn't believe my ears.

Then the very same politicians will say the govt is ignoring waterford by not granting a university/ radiotherapy etc.

Don't we (as citizens of this City) complain to TV3 about not being included on the weather map while other places are??

In any case I have made my point and if Waterfordians don't start addressing the City in proper terms then we have only ourselves to blame.

P.S this is Ireland and all common sense goes out the window when it comes to politics/media and dirty tricks

kensutz

The same thing happens in the UK. It's not just a "Waterford thing" like you're saying. Your own personal crusade will not work and the majority of people will call it town. I haven't heard many politicians call Waterford a town.

looksee

I always refer to 'going down the village' in reference to Tramore, which never fails to annoy genuine Tramorites (I'm a blow-in of 20 years or so). And going into town means I'm going to Waterford city. It would feel very strange to say 'I'm going into the city'.
And I agree with whoever said the town centre is a mess, the basic structures are gradually improving but a street cleaning machine in red square and around that area would be a great improvement.

mike65

Tramore is a town now! It was a large village when I lived there in the 70s but its about 3 times the population now.

Mike.

Mossy Monk

London is a city. Waterford is a town.

jmcc

mike65 wrote: »

Tramore is a town now! It was a large village when I lived there in the 70s but its about 3 times the population now.

<troll bait>
Isn't Tramore bigger than KK now?
</troll bait>

Regards...jmcc

Sully

mike65 wrote: »

Okay thats it, you have lost me. the use of Town as outlined above is a colloquialism and as such perfectly acceptable. For Gods sake London is a town for many those who live there (and are the type who can call themselves proper-order Londoners).

Mike.

Id tend to agree with Mike. Id never say "Im of to the city". Its only a thing iv ever heard in Home & Away

Bards wrote: »

that's all well and good, but do you no see that something is rotten when our politicians go on National Radio (RTE Morning Ireland) and start sprouting on about Waterford Town and comparing us to other big towns (it all starts by it being in everyday speech). This is a sad fact that I heard recently and couldn't believe my ears.

In such cases, id tend to email / text in reminding him that Waterford is a city. To me though, it entirely depends on the context it was said. Iv corrected people saying Ferrybank is in KK :P

Don't we (as citizens of this City) complain to TV3 about not being included on the weather map while other places are??

Different issue, where we are officially ignored as a city. TV3 have a ****e forecast anyway, at least the official body recognises us

In any case I have made my point and if Waterfordians don't start addressing the City in proper terms then we have only ourselves to blame.

P.S this is Ireland and all common sense goes out the window when it comes to politics/media and dirty tricks

I think addressing it as Mike said is acceptable, but if its something more offical / serious then it takes a different twist.

JohnC.

I've often seen Waterford on the TV3 weather map. It seems to me that they have Kilkenny on the overall map, but have Waterford on the map where it is zoomed in and flying around.

merlante

A lot of people seem to be missing the point here. Of course we all use phrases like 'going into town' to refer to going into the city centre; this happens in every city in Ireland, including Dublin. The point is that when politicians are talking in a national context, they should use the correct designation. Both because it is correct, and because in this country that we live in perception matters. It is definitely better that people outside Waterford perceive Waterford as a city among peers such as Limerick and Galway, rather than a big town among peers such as Sligo, Kilkenny or Tralee.

I don't think this is the biggest problem that Waterford faces at the moment, and we do have plenty of other things to worry about, but it is worth pointing out that it is counter productive for Waterford politicians to refer to Waterford as a town in the national media when the politicians of every other city, and one or two towns, refer to their urban areas as cities.

Popular perception does matter when it comes to things like campaigning for a university. Who is going to support a new university in some big town down the country? Do we put a university in every big town now, etc., etc.?

Freddie59

Mossy Monk wrote: »

London is a city. Waterford is a town.

:rolleyes:

Freddie59

Bards wrote: »

that's all well and good, but do you no see that something is rotten when our politicians go on National Radio (RTE Morning Ireland) and start sprouting on about Waterford Town and comparing us to other big towns (it all starts by it being in everyday speech). This is a sad fact that I heard recently and couldn't believe my ears.

Then the very same politicians will say the govt is ignoring waterford by not granting a university/ radiotherapy etc.

Don't we (as citizens of this City) complain to TV3 about not being included on the weather map while other places are??

In any case I have made my point and if Waterfordians don't start addressing the City in proper terms then we have only ourselves to blame.

P.S this is Ireland and all common sense goes out the window when it comes to politics/media and dirty tricks

I think they're all missing your point Bards. Yes we all say 'going into town'; 'going downtown' etc. But the point you are making is the derogatory and discriminatory description of Waterford as a town by people who have a personal agenda running. John Gormley is a case in point. He goes further by speaking about Dublin, then the 'other Cities Cork, Limerick, and Galway'.

But given the performance by the local Green Party it's hardly surprising.
Be proud of your City - call it a City. End of story.

Mossy Monk

Freddie59 wrote: »

:rolleyes:

That is a great response. I applaud you. Hope your brain doesn't hurt.

Freddie59

Mossy Monk wrote: »

That is a great response. I applaud you. Hope your brain doesn't hurt.

From the king of the one-liners. I wouldn't say your 'brain' is overtaxed either.:rolleyes: That's all that type of BS comment deserves.:D

Sully

Easy now lads, no need to bitch at each other.

Dilbert75

Mossy Monk wrote: »

London is a city. Waterford is a town.

"Waterford is a town that thinks its a city but acts like a village...":D

Mossy Monk

Dilbert75 wrote: »

"Waterford is a town that thinks its a city but acts like a village...":D

That is spot on. What city has no public transport on a Sunday?

Thomas_S_Hunterson

Mossy Monk wrote: »

That is a great response. I applaud you. Hope your brain doesn't hurt.

:rolleyes:

Cabaal

Mossy Monk wrote: »

That is spot on. What city has no public transport on a Sunday?

Bloody good point to be honest, the world no longer stops on a Sunday like it did years ago, lots of people still need to get to work and using a bus would be better for the pocket and environment then getting one of those bloody taxi's.

Aquos76

Mossy Monk wrote: »

London is a city. Waterford is a town.

So what does that make Dungarven?

Cabaal

Aquos76 wrote: »

So what does that make Dungarven?

a couple of houses by the sea

Mossy Monk

Aquos76 wrote: »

So what does that make Dungarven?

Dungarvan has never claimed to be a city so I do not see what your point is.

Cabaal

Mossy Monk wrote: »

Dungarvan has never claimed to be a city so I do not see what your point is.

In ireland it would be classed as a town I'd imagine...anything over 2,000 generally is,

Paddy@CIRL

mike65 wrote: »

Vedrafjord sound better and would be more eye-catching and would therefore bring in more investment esp from Nordic countires.

Mike.

Imagine what the reg plates forthe county would read ....

Mossy Monk

Dungarvan is most certainly a town.

dlofnep

Wa'her'ford is a small city. Just like Galweh.

fricatus

dlofnep wrote: »

Wa'her'ford is a small city. Just like Galweh.

I've been reading this thread and it's the most ridiculous discussion ever. Why do we even discuss this? Waterford is a city, full stop. The usage falls into three categories:

- "Town", as in "I'm going into town"
- "City", as in "A 33-year-old man from Waterford City was arrested..."
- (no descriptive), as in "I'm from Waterford". (then "city" if clarification is required)

Substitute the name of any city you know, small or large, and the usage is exactly the same. Would you refer to "Galway Town" or "Canterbury Town". No, of course not. But people there of course refer to "going into town".

Usages like "Dublin town", "London town" or "Chicago is my kind of town" are limited to the area of song and stage.

This nonsense that's going around about there being only one real city in Ireland, i.e. Dublin, and everywhere else being "large towns" is just that: nonsense. The appellation of a city is not based on size: it's based on historical, cultural and sometimes religious factors. In the UK it's based on royal charter.

It's a statement of the relative importance and status of a place. There are plenty of towns across the UK, USA and elsewhere much bigger than Galway or Waterford, but our cities, albeit small, stand out more in terms of national importance.

Sully

fricatus wrote: »

I've been reading this thread and it's the most ridiculous discussion ever. Why do we even discuss this? Waterford is a city, full stop. The usage falls into three categories:

- "Town", as in "I'm going into town"
- "City", as in "A 33-year-old man from Waterford City was arrested..."
- (no descriptive), as in "I'm from Waterford". (then "city" if clarification is required)

Substitute the name of any city you know, small or large, and the usage is exactly the same. Would you refer to "Galway Town" or "Canterbury Town". No, of course not. But people there of course refer to "going into town".

Usages like "Dublin town", "London town" or "Chicago is my kind of town" are limited to the area of song and stage.

This nonsense that's going around about there being only one real city in Ireland, i.e. Dublin, and everywhere else being "large towns" is just that: nonsense. The appellation of a city is not based on size: it's based on historical, cultural and sometimes religious factors. In the UK it's based on royal charter.

It's a statement of the relative importance and status of a place. There are plenty of towns across the UK, USA and elsewhere much bigger than Galway or Waterford, but our cities, albeit small, stand out more in terms of national importance.

Agreed.

Freddie59

fricatus wrote: »

I've been reading this thread and it's the most ridiculous discussion ever. Why do we even discuss this? Waterford is a city, full stop. The usage falls into three categories:

- "Town", as in "I'm going into town"
- "City", as in "A 33-year-old man from Waterford City was arrested..."
- (no descriptive), as in "I'm from Waterford". (then "city" if clarification is required)

Substitute the name of any city you know, small or large, and the usage is exactly the same. Would you refer to "Galway Town" or "Canterbury Town". No, of course not. But people there of course refer to "going into town".

Usages like "Dublin town", "London town" or "Chicago is my kind of town" are limited to the area of song and stage.

This nonsense that's going around about there being only one real city in Ireland, i.e. Dublin, and everywhere else being "large towns" is just that: nonsense. The appellation of a city is not based on size: it's based on historical, cultural and sometimes religious factors. In the UK it's based on royal charter.

It's a statement of the relative importance and status of a place. There are plenty of towns across the UK, USA and elsewhere much bigger than Galway or Waterford, but our cities, albeit small, stand out more in terms of national importance.

Well said Fricatus. Pity your common sense doesn't infect some of the less enlightened here.;)

Same old story. Knock your own. Some of our so-called 'Waterfordians' are experts at it.

PDN

Town or city - it's still full of culchies.

merlante

PDN wrote: »

Town or city - it's still full of culchies.

They're all coming out of the woodwork now...