Help me pick a car for 35 000

TheOneToBe

I am looking to purchase new/used car in next several months. I am at the point where I would like to make a plan of what I would like to try it so I can look for a good deal…I am planning to spend around 35 000 and out of that it would 10 000 in cash and rest of it would be financing. With a new tax law coming in to power in July I am think if it is a good time to buy a car or not…
First of I do not have currently car so I would be buying car without trade in. I am interested if this gives me better chance at negotiating a good deal from used/new car? Is there some starting point here? Like at least 1000 euros of advertised price to start?

Here is my list of possibilities…it could look strange but at my age (32)…look like this…

2007 Honda Civic Type R
2008/2009 Honda Accord (new one, I am not sure when it will be out?)
2007 Golf GTI
2007 VW Passat
2006 Audi A4 2.0 TDI S type
2006 Lexus IS220D (with leather)
2007 VW EOS
2008 Honda Civic Type S

What I am looking for is a car with excellent resale value and quality. I am planning to keep a car for 3 years and I really do not want to pay anything more then monthly payments for it. I am also looking to get a good resale value and to sell it easy (quickly) when I have to. I would also like to buy a car that will be around for a while with current shape. Please comment and make suggestions…

As for financing I am looking for lower monthly payments up to 600 but I would like to have possibility of paying it off at any point.
Any suggestions or help is welcomed

MagicMarker

Well, firstly, if you want to do it through finance, then imo you're best off getting a bank/credit union loan. Rather than organise it with a dealer.

As for what car to get? I haven't a clue!!:)

Saruman

How about a newCivic Hybrid

Its the right price, i would imagine in 3 years people will be looking for Hybrids in the second hand market...

Eoin

MagicMarker wrote: »

Well, firstly, if you want to do it through finance, then imo you're best off getting a bank/credit union loan. Rather than organise it with a dealer.

As for what car to get? I haven't a clue!!:)

That's not always true. If you are happy to keep the car for the duration of the loan, then HP can be a little cheaper. It's when you start trading in, or looking to settle before the term it can be more expensive.

.Longshanks.

TheOneToBe wrote: »

2007 Honda Civic Type R
2008/2009 Honda Accord (new one, I am not sure when it will be out?)
2007 Golf GTI
2007 VW Passat
2006 Audi A4 2.0 TDI S type
2006 Lexus IS220D (with leather)
2007 VW EOS
2008 Honda Civic Type S

Jees your options are as diverse as they come - a CTR to a VW Passat.....Chalk and cheese:D
I think u need to clarify rougly what your after a bit more - a hot hatch thats as fond of petrol as Shane mcGowan is of booze, or a motorway diesel cruiser?

E92

Longshanks100 wrote: »

Jees your options are as diverse as they come - a CTR to a VW Passat.....Chalk and cheese:D
I think u need to clarify rougly what your after a bit more - a hot hatch thats as fond of petrol as Shane mcGowan is of booze, or a motorway diesel cruiser?

I wouldn't regard a car that averages 35 mpg(Golf GTI) as "as fond of petrol as Shane mcGowan is of booze" anyway I know that!

Stephen

The CTR is pretty decent on fuel too, unless your right foot is rather heavy

groupb

A passat as a quality car?

JHMEG

CTR is the quickest of the bunch, the IS220 is the most refined. The Passat is terminally boring, and you're about 20 years too young for it.

anthony4335

I would second the Civic hybrid, drove one a little while ago and they are a nice car. Going by the resale in England, it should hold onto its value, and with the all the tax rebates it will be less than 30K, and tax will be €146 per year.
But if that is not your cup of tea, I would go for the lexus Is220D, I have a IS200 and I love it, would love to afford the 220.

.Longshanks.

E92 wrote: »

I wouldn't regard a car that averages 35 mpg(Golf GTI) as "as fond of petrol as Shane mcGowan is of booze" anyway I know that!

I wouldn't either but i was trying to empathise my point, GTI 35mpg vs ~55MPG diesel.
The Civic Type R would be my choice but must be a totally different kettle of fish to drive compared to a passat. I've been in a type S but not a Typr R.

TheOneToBe

Just to clarify couple the things... as for choices I am very indecisive what should I get... I am a Honda guy, but 35 000+ for Type R is very much over priced...btw... I just arrived from Canada and I had 2006 Civic Si which is almost equivalent to Type R, and I loved it...on other side I like IS 220D but they are hard to find and for fully loaded it is getting closer to 40 000... I would like to know generally when you go to dealer or private sale what can you expect as regarding a price? What should I start with? As for finance if I can get a bit more details since I am new to Ireland and I am not sure how it is working here but in Canada it was much more simpler
Also... it looks like VW holds its price very well here...
Should I concentrate more on private sales or dealerships? What about UK imports? I do not notice much of price difference after taxes...
Should I wait for July or should I just go shopping after new years as the cars will be one year older and get it over with?
Any other suggestion regarding car selection?

Orange69

Why the hell don't you just buy a 10k car and avoid needlessly getting into debt?

The minute you drive that new car off the lot you can write 5k off its value..

.Longshanks.

Rule of thumb regarding the new VRt changes (only applies if buying new or importing after July '07). If going for a powerful petrol buy now, if going for diesel hold out until after July.
If your buying straight (no trade in) then then you will be in a very strong position to bargin for the best deal from a dealer.

CrowdedHouse

JHMEG wrote: »

CTR is the quickest of the bunch, the IS220 is the most refined. The Passat is terminally boring, and you're about 20 years too young for it.

Agree except the IS220 is a dog,and this is coming from someone who really wanted to buy one....

The interior mirror vibrates most of the time.
You can't legally use 6th gear it Ireland,cos it labours until about 125kmh.
The rear head & leg room is a joke,the console with stereo,AC controls etc really look cheap/down market.

They reputedly,although I can't confirm this,have a lot of rattles and squeaks and are thirsty on diesel.(salesman said mid to high 30's)

I got a longish test drive(10 miles or so on my own) in an exec with premium pack but despite trying very hard,I couldn't get tuned to it.

I was offered a very good trade in on my 06 GTI but had to say no thanks.

irishpartyboy

If your a Honda man, then an S2000 GT would be a good shout. I've not been lucky enough to drive one yet, but I'm told great fun, but perhaps bit of a bumpy ride. Here's a good example.

http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=Car&carID=858636

Apparently new CTR is very bumpy.

I'm a Honda man myself, so S2000 GT would be my choice.

E92

CrowdedHouse wrote: »

Agree except the IS220 is a dog,and this is coming from someone who really wanted to buy one....

The interior mirror vibrates most of the time.
You can't legally use 6th gear it Ireland,cos it labours until about 125kmh.
The rear head & leg room is a joke,the console with stereo,AC controls etc really look cheap/down market.

They reputedly,although I can't confirm this,have a lot of rattles and squeaks and are thirsty on diesel.(salesman said mid to high 30's)

I got a longish test drive(10 miles or so on my own) in an exec with premium pack but despite trying very hard,I couldn't get tuned to it.

I was offered a very good trade in on my 06 GTI but had to say no thanks.

The IS220d averages 44.8 mpg, rather poor when you consider that a BMW 320i which is a 2.0 petrol averages 1.5 mpg more than the Lexus and has only 5 bhp than the Lexus. A 320d would average 58.9 mpg and has more power(2 bhp to be precise) than the Lexus. Then again a 325i or even a 330i would use less fuel according to the EU figures than you Golf GTI and those cars have a 3.0 litre straight 6!

What in gods name does it mean for an engine to be labouring?

CrowdedHouse

E92 wrote: »

What in gods name does it mean for an engine to be labouring?

...er....the car is unable to rev/accelerate smoothly...gear selected is too high

TheOneToBe

irishpartyboy wrote: »

If your a Honda man, then an S2000 GT would be a good shout. I've not been lucky enough to drive one yet, but I'm told great fun, but perhaps bit of a bumpy ride. Here's a good example.

http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=Car&carID=858636

Apparently new CTR is very bumpy.

I'm a Honda man myself, so S2000 GT would be my choice.

Love to have that one, but I would need back seats maybe one day as fun car

TheOneToBe

CrowdedHouse wrote: »

Agree except the IS220 is a dog,and this is coming from someone who really wanted to buy one....

The interior mirror vibrates most of the time.
You can't legally use 6th gear it Ireland,cos it labours until about 125kmh.
The rear head & leg room is a joke,the console with stereo,AC controls etc really look cheap/down market.

They reputedly,although I can't confirm this,have a lot of rattles and squeaks and are thirsty on diesel.(salesman said mid to high 30's)

I got a longish test drive(10 miles or so on my own) in an exec with premium pack but despite trying very hard,I couldn't get tuned to it.

I was offered a very good trade in on my 06 GTI but had to say no thanks.

thanks for info... good points.... how do you like your GTI?

TheOneToBe

Longshanks100 wrote: »

Rule of thumb regarding the new VRt changes (only applies if buying new or importing after July '07). If going for a powerful petrol buy now, if going for diesel hold out until after July.
If your buying straight (no trade in) then then you will be in a very strong position to bargin for the best deal from a dealer.

good point.... only problem is that for instance for Lexus it would only save me money if I would import it from UK, since I would not have money to buy new... what is going to happen with used diesel cars? Are the prices going to go down since new once will cost same as old soon?

E92

Don't forget that UK cars will still have mph speedos because they still use miles over there.

JHMEG

E92 wrote: »

The IS220d averages 44.8 mpg, rather poor when you consider that a BMW 320i which is a 2.0 petrol averages 1.5 mpg more than the Lexus and has only 5 bhp than the Lexus.

Economy isn't everything.. the Lexus is infinitely better built, cheaper, and has the kind of reliability BMW can only dream of. Dunno about Ireland, but in the UK they have dealer service that is top tier.

Orange69

Orange69 wrote: »

Why the hell don't you just buy a 10k car and avoid needlessly getting into debt?

The minute you drive that new car off the lot you can write 5k off its value..

I'd have to agree with Orange69, if your thinking about finance or even a loan and you may end up buying a used car then just go out with your €10k and buy a decent used car instead of getting into debt.

sdanseo

Orange69 wrote: »

Why the hell don't you just buy a 10k car and avoid needlessly getting into debt?

The minute you drive that new car off the lot you can write 5k off its value..

+1, if you''re going to be taking out a loan it's a silly move. If on the other hand you happen to have thousands in cash lying around, what about a nice 2006/2005 3-series instead of brand new?

TheOneToBe

E92 wrote: »

Don't forget that UK cars will still have mph speedos because they still use miles over there.

that is true, and I do not like that much

TheOneToBe

sdonn_1 wrote: »

+1, if you''re going to be taking out a loan it's a silly move. If on the other hand you happen to have thousands in cash lying around, what about a nice 2006/2005 3-series instead of brand new?

Personally not a bit fan of BMW, I like a new coupe but to expensive...as for a loan, I will be paying it off with an year and half, that is why I am looking for a loan which I can pay off at any time

E92

JHMEG wrote: »

Economy isn't everything.. the Lexus is infinitely better built, cheaper, and has the kind of reliability BMW can only dream of. Dunno about Ireland, but in the UK they have dealer service that is top tier.

Did I mention reliability;)? I wouldn't be reading into that survey at all. I don't believe it. The Mitsubishi Carisma has a reputation for not being the most reliabile car ever made. Same goes for the Jag X-Type(I think it finished 128th in a JD power survey(I know its a lot more than just a reliability survey, but reliability is still an important part of that survey too)). Anyway, what about the Toyota Corolla? 91st place like:eek:? I'm really going to believe a survey that has a Corolla down that low, and the Boxster in 100th. Or the Fiat Marea being more reliable than a 3 series. The German TUV found the Ford Focus to be the most reliable car on more than one occasion yet this survey has it in 44th. Nuff said. I'm not saying that the 3 series is going to be more reliable than a Lexus btw. Lexi are in fairness bulletproof, better than Toyotas generally. Of the 2 the Lexus would be better no doubt about that.

And after July the Lexus certainly won't be cheaper either to buy or run. As for better built we've just had one poster tell us that the IS is not at all well built(the E90 does feel like a well made product incidentally and yes I have sat in one).

S.I.R

imo id just buy a saab 9000 turbo and spend the rest on lotto tickets if not , just use banger nomics... buy a banger and save your money for when the econemy collapses... then your ultra rich. !

CrowdedHouse

TheOneToBe wrote: »

thanks for info... good points.... how do you like your GTI?

The GTI is a really great car to drive.It can be quick when I want it to be.Runs like its on rails,in truth it's probably too fast for my middle age value system
Driven sensibly it can be surprisingly economical,high 30's to the gallon no problem(my journeys are usually open road,little town/in traffic driving)
I've had no problems with it in the 2 years I've owned it- no breakdowns,no squeaks or rattles.
From what I've been offered as a trade in seems to hold it's value very well(except at the dealer where I bought it :mad:)


Quibbles:Expensive insofar as the Irish spec in 06 had no AC of any sort (in a 36K car),in fact there is still only manual AC as standard.I added Climate control,leather,alarm..even a front armrest is extra,so it ended up over 40K-a lot of money for a Golf.

If you open the window during or after rain,the water pi**es in off the roof-unforgivable !
The standard stereo sound quality is very poor.
This time last year I found it difficult to get reasonable quotes from the major insurers-considering I have decades of accident free driving,although this year they all seem to have come down for me.

All in all though - a great car.

EDIT: BTW Red ones are fastest

JHMEG

E92 wrote: »

Did I mention reliability;)? I wouldn't be reading into that survey at all.

It's NOT a survey:
The list, compiled by independent mechanical breakdown insurer, Warranty Direct

Things that are better built last longer. Lexus put the effort into parts of the car the owner typically doesn't see.

IS220d is 2k cheaper than 320 at moment, and is a higher spec. Not sure how the VRT and road tax from July will be tho. You might be right. I can't find conclusive CO2 figures on either car for Ireland.

Henry Ford III

E92 wrote: »

The IS220d averages 44.8 mpg, rather poor when you consider that a BMW 320i which is a 2.0 petrol averages 1.5 mpg more than the Lexus and has only 5 bhp than the Lexus. A 320d would average 58.9 mpg and has more power(2 bhp to be precise) than the Lexus. Then again a 325i or even a 330i would use less fuel according to the EU figures than you Golf GTI and those cars have a 3.0 litre straight 6!

IS220D is a bit of a tractor. Unrefined and frankly coarse.

BMW 320i does over 45mpg? :rolleyes: Pass the brandy there Cyril 325i and 330i are heavy on fuel.

Golf GTI is actually ok juice wise.

JHMEG

Henry Ford III wrote: »

IS220D is a bit of a tractor. Unrefined and frankly coarse.

It's close to as refined as diesel gets, with such a low compression ratio.

Henry Ford III wrote: »

BMW 320i does over 45mpg? :rolleyes: Pass the brandy there Cyril 325i and 330i are heavy on fuel.

I think you'll find E92 is talking about the new range of hybridy BMWs, which from what I've read and seen are pretty good.

E92

Henry Ford III wrote: »

BMW 320i does over 45mpg? :rolleyes: Pass the brandy there Cyril 325i and 330i are heavy on fuel.

Well according to the EU tests it sure does.
See BMW UK for the mpg data of the 320i, 325i and lastly the 330i.

A 320d would cost €42,375 in top line SE trim after July and that has everything bar leather and leccy seats, compared to the IS220d Executive which will cost €47,553 after July. The Beamer will cost €150 to tax compared to the Lexus' €490. And an exec IS is already dearer to buy than its' BMW equivalent right now(51630 vs 50850 for the Bee-Em). Actually the 220d pollutes just 2 g/km less than a 325i, now that is undeniably bad no matter what you think of either BMW or Lexus, a 2.2 4 banger diesel being a mere 2 g/km better on CO2 than a 3.0 litre 6 pot petrol:eek:.

A 320d ES will also be cheaper than the base IS220d, €40,700(after July) for the IS, €39,170 for the 3 series after July(I realise the BMW is a lot dearer presently though).

JHMEG wrote: »

I think you'll find E92 is talking about the new range of hybridy BMWs, which from what I've read and seen are pretty good.

Precisely! The non ED ones are a different kettle of fish. More like what HenryFordIII said for mpg.

bazz26

A second hand Honda Accord 2.2 diesel should be considered. Most come in Executive spec which means they have leather electric seats, cruise control, etc. I would not bother buying a new one yet as a new model will be launched in the next 12 months, the new diesel is even a bit further away.

Cionád

CrowdedHouse wrote: »

All in all though - a great car.

EDIT: BTW Red ones are fastest

Fantastic Looking car, don't fancy it in white but that red colour is perfect.

TheOneToBe

bazz26 wrote: »

A second hand Honda Accord 2.2 diesel should be considered. Most come in Executive spec which means they have leather electric seats, cruise control, etc. I would not bother buying a new one yet as a new model will be launched in the next 12 months, the new diesel is even a bit further away.

Yes that would be my pick also, I like them...but problem is that there is a new one coming out this year ! if I would wait till July or so and if the new is out by then, than it would be a strong contender..

TheOneToBe

It definitely looks like BMW is better deal, but for some reason it just does not look that great for me (except new coupe)...

It is interesting that no one is commenting on Audio A4? I think that it would be interesting purchase?

What about EOS? They are about same priced used as GTI?
I am also interested for Ireland...when people say that insurance is high? Is that 1000/year 2000/year?

pburns

The Golf GTI is the one that would offer the most 'smiles per mile' I reckon. I'm not a VW fan of even a fan of German cars but the GTI is a top motor IMO.

The Lexus IS220D is not up to the class standard of the 320D. If you want a diesel saloon you won't beat the new Mazda 6 - better-looking than the Lexus, sportier than the Passat and you'll get a top-spec, model brand new for <35 grand - especially after July. 142 bhp and Mazda have trimmed the kerbweight. Needs the 18'' wheel option tho...

http://www.mazda.ie/Showroom/Mazda6/

TBH though, if I had only 10 grand in readies I'd be spending less than 35 big ones. People are spoiled with too much easy credit and it's gonna end in the ****ter, mark my words...:(

ninty9er

I didn't notice if you said automatic was necesary having moved from Canada, but here's something practical, way under your budget and you could probably hammer €2k more off of it.
Mondeo ST220

The fuel economy will be brutal, Insurance probably €2500-€3000 if you can't transfer you Canadian NCB, but if you have a full 6 year NCB probably around €900-€1200 if you even get a quote.

The new tax rates aren't going to affect anything you buy that is registered before July next year...existing rates apply.

I noticed when I was in the States during the summer that leasing is generally the done thing, but straight out purchase with or without a loan is what would (in my experience) be the most common here in Ireland.

here's a linky to my local credit union which will show the repayments on 25k over 24 months or whatever way you want to try...it's a handy calculator. The rate shown will be higher I think as many Credit Unions offer lower interest loans for cars....or if your deposits cover the borrowings in full (i.e you have €20,000 deposited and want a €15k loan then the rate is 6% I think). The first thing you'll need to do is lodge your 10k with your local Credit Union and start saving weekly/fortnightly, build up a relationship. They generally allow borrowings up to 3 times your deposited savings with them and importantly for you you can pay back as much as you like each month unlike banks which are set and may have penalties for early repayment. It also follows that if you are having a difficult month or few months financially that you can reduce your payment. The interest payable is dependent on how fast you pay off the loan and not set at the beginning. That's why I prefer to get a car loan in paticular from a Credit Union. you can pay back and sell the car on with no debt hanging over it!

Biro

TheOneToBe wrote: »

Yes that would be my pick also, I like them...but problem is that there is a new one coming out this year ! if I would wait till July or so and if the new is out by then, than it would be a strong contender..

The answer is simple then... buy a new Type R in January, and then the following year trade it in for the new Accord diesel!

JHMEG

The new Civic Type-R is quicker than the GTI, but I can't help but get the feeling the outgoing Civic Type-R (EP3) would be even more fun. Or the JDM version saloon which Fifth Gear described as totally hardcore, and quite a bit quicker and harder than the euro version.

The new euro version won't cock its inner rear wheel on hard cornering, unlike the JDM one and the EP3 and DC5 Integra.

Screen cap of JDM cocking wheel, taken from a this video on the excellent nihoncar.com site.

E92

JHMEG wrote: »

The new Civic Type-R is quicker than the GTI, but I can't help but get the feeling the outgoing Civic Type-R (EP3) would be even more fun. Or the JDM version saloon which Fifth Gear described as totally hardcore, and quite a bit quicker and harder than the euro version.

Hmm the CTR does 0-100 in 6.6 compared to the Golf GTI's 7.2, quite a difference considering the CTR has 2 less bhp, but the CTR is going up to 32% VRT and €1000 tax after July, compared to Golf GTI's 28% VRT and €600 tax, so the CTR is gonna be a lot dearer to buy and run compared to a Golf GTI after July(it already costs more to buy btw at €37k+ IIRC compared to the VW's €35k IIRC).

If buying a Civic Type-R buy before July.

JHMEG

E92 wrote: »

it already costs more to buy btw at €37k+ IIRC compared to the VW's €35k IIRC).

GTI=35600, CTR=36,980, but the CTR comes with climate control and 18" alloys as standard.

E92 wrote: »

If buying a Civic Type-R buy before July.

Absolutely.

TheOneToBe

Yes Type R would be fun question would be how much insurance would cost That could be a problem...but if I can find a good deal that it would be good purchase....
As I have posted before...interesting thing no one is suggesting A4?

JHMEG

TheOneToBe wrote: »

Yes Type R would be fun question would be how much insurance would cost That could be a problem...but if I can find a good deal that it would be good purchase....
As I have posted before...interesting thing no one is suggesting A4?

Get a quote online from 123.ie, insure.ie, quinn etc. You'd know in the next 10 mins! (Altho since you're >30 it'd be under a grand I'd say)

A4, imho, is sold as an upmarket Passat. It's not quite as boring looking, but is as boring to drive.

TheOneToBe

I will give it a try for insurance.. I had Canadian licence since I was 17 and I had never had accident. I only have provisional Irish licence for now. I can probably get some kind of report from my insurance company in Canada where I was named but I used insurance to cover cost of fixing my car couple years ago due to it was broken in to... I would be OK paying 1200 per year for insurance....
Yes I do agree for Audio, but if I could find a S type with low mileage for a good prise it could be good compromise...
On my list to try and take a closer look definitely are GTI, Type R, Type S and 220D... and probably A4 for fun of it

.Longshanks.

Something else to bear in mind if buying new is that the Golf MKVI is probably be in the showrooms in 12-15 months. Apparently its just going to be a face lift (like the latest focus) as apposed to a full new model. I've read on CAR magazine website (think that correct) that the MKVI will be idential to MKV from the windows up.
This might not matter to you but the Civic is the latest model and is unlikely to get any tweaks for a few years yet.

Regarding the Type-S vs Type-R, i test drove the S and liked it but decided against it. The dealer however had a type R already sold in the showroom at the time. Was told no chance of driving it when i chanced by arm;) but was told its a different animal altogether.
You say your a Honda man but I'd get the GTI everytime over a type S. Having had a spin in both there is no comparison.

You obviousy sold the Civic Si - remember seing a thread a while back wondering should you import it from Canada before the ugly VRT issue as point out??

TheOneToBe

Longshanks100 wrote: »

Something else to bear in mind if buying new is that the Golf MKVI is probably be in the showrooms in 12-15 months. Apparently its just going to be a face lift (like the latest focus) as apposed to a full new model. I've read on CAR magazine website (think that correct) that the MKVI will be idential to MKV from the windows up.
This might not matter to you but the Civic is the latest model and is unlikely to get any tweaks for a few years yet.

Regarding the Type-S vs Type-R, i test drove the S and liked it but decided against it. The dealer however had a type R already sold in the showroom at the time. Was told no chance of driving it when i chanced by arm;) but was told its a different animal altogether.
You say your a Honda man but I'd get the GTI everytime over a type S. Having had a spin in both there is no comparison.

You obviousy sold the Civic Si - remember seing a thread a while back wondering should you import it from Canada before the ugly VRT issue as point out??

Yes that is correct for 15 000 euros, two year old 200 HP civic sad day in my life, loved that car that is part of me that wants to get Type R to compensate. 95 % same as Type R, and that car is just pure fun!!! It is much more different then 1.8 L....

TheOneToBe

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my baby

E92

JHMEG wrote: »

GTI=35600, CTR=36,980, but the CTR comes with climate control and 18" alloys as standard.

The CTR starts at €37,345 according to the Honda website. And the GTI comes in at €35,960. Put in 18s and climate control and it costs €37,570, or €325 more than the CTR.