Green party - Imposing their morals on us?

RobAMerc

I for one did not vote the Greens in, so my view may be a little tainted, but given the new tax regime for motoring, the banning of ordinary light bulbs in favour of cfl's ( at about 10 times the price) and now Gormley's restricting of the Hunt license, does anyone else feel the Green party (or more specifically Gormley) are imposing their morals on us under the guise of governance ?

I think these boys are trying to replace the Catholic church as our moral guardians or something.

leninbenjamin

I think you don't understand how politics works.

keen

The bulbs may be ten times dearer but they use less power so surely your saving money with the new bulbs as opposed to spending more.

Owen

Of course he does. The Greens are just a PITA. And they've small willies.

The Real B-man

Yeah for one the whole Lightbulb thing is ridicoulous i mean your cant even get CFL for most light fittings :rolleyes:

Giblet

keen wrote: »

The bulbs may be ten times dearer but they use less power so surely your saving money with the new bulbs as opposed to spending more.

They're not as bright.

Owen

keen wrote: »

The bulbs may be ten times dearer but they use less power

Actually, CFL bulbs only use less power when they're on for long durations of time. An old incandescent bulb can be more efficient for short burns.

ejmaztec

CFL bulbs are very good for the environment. If you've left your car-keys somewhere in the house, by the time you've waited for the light-bulbs to warm up so that you can find them, you haven't been driving your car for about three hours.

Dyr

We had green politics stuffed down our throats by hippy teachers in school back in the 80s its no wonder they've gotten into govt.


Having said that i think hunting should legalised, actual hunting rather than just riding a horse behind a bunch of dogs like a spare mickey. if a bunch of toffs want to hunt stuff we can give them some spears and start importing wild boars, brown bears.:D

Setun

As far as I can see, all the green party have done is brought in new taxes/made certain materials more expensive.

Mr. Incognito

I'm happy enough with that.

Why don't you start a new hunt? Find the Southside blow-ins. Then you can beat them to death and eat their brains, and hop off to the toilets and do some blow.

Oh no- the greens are coming. Run! Them vicious hippies will kill us all!

Marksie

I have dealt with the greens in the past through work and all their stance is just show.

Their true colours are showing now that they are in power. They are getting like those past masters of corruption FF. Its a case of bening their election promises til they almost break to keep their grasp on power.

astrofool

ned78 wrote: »

Actually, CFL bulbs only use less power when they're on for long durations of time. An old incandescent bulb can be more efficient for short burns.

That's complete crap, google mythbusters bulb test to set your mind straight.

I didn't want the Greens in because I was afraid they'd f*ck up the road building, which they haven't been allowed to do, so I'm pretty happy they've skewed motor tax to green cars and banned incandescent bulbs.

As long as it's in small doses, the Green's are fine.

DonJose

keen wrote: »

The bulbs may be ten times dearer but they use less power so surely your saving money with the new bulbs as opposed to spending more.

In the states the energy efficient bulbs are only 6 times more expensive than the old ones, the energy efficient bulbs should at least be VAT exempt.

ven0m

Next time you see a green party member on your door, ask them why they do no motion for campaign & electrion posters to be made illegal, as they also create litter, & often use non-biodegradable materials including the cable ties, not to mention dirty big vans being used to drive 20 yards at a time from lamp-post to lamp-post to put them up, which are all un-neccesary vehicle journeys.

I said this to the green in my area & he slammed my own sliding door on me at election time this year without giving me an answer. I complained to the green party HQ & Trevor Sargent personally rung me to apologise.

This is a party who cannot even stand over it's own policies on 'being green'. Even when it comes to their own I.T. infrastructure, they are one of the less green I've ever seen. They use systems with poor green ratings. I'll bet various parts of my anatomy to the fact they do NOT have a 'black-out' policy for their offices after hours & I will also bet their electricity bill is with the ESB & not something like Airtricity or another green power supply company .....

I've no time for the green party. I've little time for political parties - but even less time for them & their hypocrisy.



:::: ven0mous ::::

ven0m

DonJose wrote: »

In the states the energy efficient bulbs are only 6 times more expensive than the old ones, the energy efficient bulbs should at least be VAT exempt.

'Energy Efficient lightbulbs' use more energy to produce & negate any environmental effects when you balance it out in carbon credits. Considering there are less of these on ther market than regular ones, they will use up MORE energy when production ramps up.

Also - please top this off with the dirty lie that is 'carbon neutrality'. Any business can say they're carbon neutral by putting hands in pockets to buy 'carbon credits'. This doesn't reduce carbon emissions, just make some tweed-wearing tree hugger happier than his little carbon credit accounts balance...............


:::: ven0mous ::::

Blitzkrieger

Fair play to the Greens for seeing what way the wind is blowing, jumping on the bandwagon and finding a new way of imposing taxes while telling people it's for their own good.

I can't believe anybody voted for the *****. They have no ideas at all. Their solution to every problem is to impose a tax so that private individuals have to do their work for them. They're not even targeting their efforts properly. wrt the new motor tax rates I'd like to ask some leading questions :

a) Where do the majority of greenhouse gases in Ireland come from?
b) Is this new tax system going to make an impact on our need to use our cars?

Jesus Wept

They can't stop people using proper lightbulbs, all we have to do is stock up. :cool:

I may start selling 'nostalgia lightbulbs' on the black market, after the switch. :cool:

rubadub

Loads of things should be vat exempt or even subsidised, e.g. nicotine replacement stuff, "healthy" foods (dont ask me how to define it), fitness equipment, gym subscriptions etc.

Same moaning probably came up when coal was banned in dublin.

ven0m

Blitzkrieger wrote: »

Fair play to the Greens for seeing what way the wind is blowing, jumping on the bandwagon and finding a new way of imposing taxes while telling people it's for their own good.

I can't believe anybody voted for the *****. They have no ideas at all. Their solution to every problem is to impose a tax so that private individuals have to do their work for them. They're not even targeting their efforts properly. wrt the new motor tax rates I'd like to ask some leading questions :

a) Where do the majority of greenhouse gases in Ireland come from?
b) Is this new tax system going to make an impact on our need to use our cars?

you've missed another point. The so called 'emissions bands' are not going to be tested. The information for what cars goes in what brands will be left to manufacturers to be 'honest' about. There is NO provision for random testing of this to be true. So you tell me, if in the european economy they all move like this & VW see the new GTI's sales are going down the pan, & knowing their vehicles are not going to be tested to see their vehicles match what they say, wouldn't you "massage" your figures???

Also - they forget to mention, that changes to cars at the point of dealership can impact on the emissions; adding in climate control, changing to larger alloys, etc etc etc .......

Yet another poorly thought out policy that is nothing more than a smash-and-grab on Irish pockets.

If they were TRULY serious, they would abandon Road tax, & instead place a tax instead onto petrol & diesel. The more you use, the more you contribute to carbon emissions, therefore the more you should pay. This would even take into account non-national cars being driven here that are not being subjected to NCT's, and contributing to Carbon emissions in Ireland. Simple yet effective solution. Would make alot of people think carefully about driving 20 yards up the road to the shops ..................



:::: ven0mous ::::

TheVan

All of the Green measures improve the stance of the country environmentally. To complain about these measures in the mindless fashion above, is to take a small-minded, self-serving view of the world.

• The CFL light bulbs save you money in the long run and are better for the environment
• The new tax on cars just means that your gas guzzler is taxed more, but it means that the low-emission car is taxed less. Not only is this good for the environment, it also uses taxation as an incentive (which was one of the reasons for the Celtic Tiger!!)

Also, I hardly think the Green measures are "values".

If your values consist of paying as little tax as possible, then I worry for you.



PS - I am not a member of the Green Party (nor any party!)

Owen

ven0m wrote: »

you've missed another point. The so called 'emissions bands' are not going to be tested. The information for what cars goes in what brands will be left to manufacturers to be 'honest' about.

Well, they're not going to be tested in this country, but they are in others ven0m. The TUV for example in Germany are like the fourth reich when it comes to making sure vehicles are what they're claimed to be.

Owen

TheVan wrote: »

The new tax on cars just means that your gas guzzler is taxed more, but it means that the low-emission car is taxed less.

B*llocks to that. It removes choice from people's lives. There's little left in this country to enjoy these days, and now the opportunity to drive nice cars is on the way out too.

rubadub

ven0m wrote: »

If they were TRULY serious, they would abandon Road tax, & instead place a tax instead onto petrol & diesel. The more you use, the more you contribute to carbon emissions, therefore the more you should pay.

Exactly. In the fitness forum some girl was giving up walking to work as she got a new car. And the idea was "I paid tax, insurance etc, for they year so by christ I am going to use it!"

I see this a lot with mates too, and would feel the same if I had a car, have to get your moneys worth, and it is a lot of money. Insurance etc should be mileage based, it already is indirectly, i.e. women drive way less miles, have more claims per mile, but when you balance up the year they have less claims, so are insured for less. Less claims per year on average.
I might drive 1 mile in a year yet am determined as the same risk as a guy doing 100,000- nonsense.

The taxing on "litreage" had to change, a new super efficient engine could be made at 10L and taxed to hell.

People need education too, you can have all the CFLs you want, but fill that kettle to the brim for your single cup of tea and all your good is poured down the sink as wasted energy.

Setun

TheVan wrote: »

All of the Green measures improve the stance of the country environmentally. To complain about these measures in the mindless fashion above, is to take a small-minded, self-serving view of the world.

• The CFL light bulbs save you money in the long run and are better for the environment
• The new tax on cars just means that your gas guzzler is taxed more, but it means that the low-emission car is taxed less. Not only is this good for the environment, it also uses taxation as an incentive (which was one of the reasons for the Celtic Tiger!!)

Also, I hardly think the Green measures are "values".

If your values consist of paying as little tax as possible, then I worry for you.



PS - I am not a member of the Green Party (nor any party!)

What about the people who can't afford to change their cars? Our family won't be able to afford to change to a lighter car for some years, what with numerous other bills taking precedent for the moment, so we'll presumably be taxed more on our current car.

On the other hand it's not as if a 'little extra tax' on a landrover is financially going to hurt anyone who can afford one anyway. Poor policy tbh. Don't know if i see them getting back into government next term.

gerky

I'm glad the greens are in power even though they are watered down but what did people expect their a small party in with FF it wouldn't have been any different with FG.
Principals are one thing but its better to have the power to do something than to be on the outside doing nothing.

As regards light bulb ban I don't think it will be an outright ban the likes of fridge lights and such would have to be taken in to account.

And about cfl bulbs being dearer, in their lifetime they workout a lot cheaper than incandescents and they don't use more energy than ordinary ones in short term use.

Theres also other types of low energy lighting not just cfls and if there was a ban of some sort they would become a lot more mainstream.

Change needs to happen not just as regards global warming But the environment in general and while these might only be small steps in the grand scheme of things at least its a start.

ven0m

gerky wrote: »

I'm glad the greens are in power even though they are watered down but what did people expect their a small party in with FF it wouldn't have been any different with FG.
Principals are one thing but its better to have the power to do something than to be on the outside doing nothing.

As regards light bulb ban I don't think it will be an outright ban the likes of fridge lights and such would have to be taken in to account.

And about cfl bulbs being dearer, in their lifetime they workout a lot cheaper than incandescents and they don't use more energy than ordinary ones in short term use.

Theres also other types of low energy lighting not just cfls and if there was a ban of some sort they would become a lot more mainstream.

Change needs to happen not just as regards global warming But the environment in general and while these might only be small steps in the grand scheme of things at least its a start.

LED's are more energy efficient in every single respect, & yet no-one has even pushed this technology in Ireland - not even the greens. They refuse to even accept discussion on the outrageous amount of energy used to create a CFL, & how even over it's lifetime it doesn't balance out against a regular bulb. Why? Because they're unformed nincompoops who have retarded bright eyed college morons doing their research, instead of actually going & looking at these things properly, and instead focus on soundbytes, & engage in meaningless codology. These are the same people who in government STILL use ministerial cars, & haven't insisted on the new fleet next year being things like Saab Biopowers or others ............

If they had half as much brains as the verbal diahorea that came out of their mouths, they'd be more credible & wouldn't be seen as such radicals.

RobAMerc

TheVan wrote: »

PS - I am not a member of the Green Party (nor any party!)

If your not then your just a gullible fool.

TheVan wrote: »

* The CFL light bulbs save you money in the long run and are better for the environment
* The new tax on cars just means that your gas guzzler is taxed more, but it means that the low-emission car is taxed less. Not only is this good for the environment, it also uses taxation as an incentive (which was one of the reasons for the Celtic Tiger!!)

you use all the exact catch phrases used to fool you too.

beanyb

Daddio wrote: »

What about the people who can't afford to change their cars? Our family won't be able to afford to change to a lighter car for some years, what with numerous other bills taking precedent for the moment, so we'll presumably be taxed more on our current car.

On the other hand it's not as if a 'little extra tax' on a landrover is financially going to hurt anyone who can afford one anyway. Poor policy tbh. Don't know if i see them getting back into government next term.

The new taxation system only applies to cars bought from July 2008. That's when it's being implemented. John Gormley said he wasnt bringing it in retrospectively to allow people to make their car choice on this basis in the future, but without punishing people for the cars that they had purchased before this measure was introduced. So you'll be paying the same tax you are now.

Gegerty

RobAMerc wrote: »

I for one did not vote the Greens in, so my view may be a little tainted, but given the new tax regime for motoring, the banning of ordinary light bulbs in favour of cfl's ( at about 10 times the price) and now Gormley's restricting of the Hunt license, does anyone else feel the Green party (or more specifically Gormley) are imposing their morals on us under the guise of governance ?

I think these boys are trying to replace the Catholic church as our moral guardians or something.

Just like incandescent bulbs, cfl bulbs have good brands and band brands. Got a decent one recently (sorry can't remember the brand). small and stylish looking and the light off it is amazing. They also last a lot longer, in fact I've had one of the early cr*ppy ones for about 6 years now.

As for impossing morals on us, isn't that what all governments do? I'd love to sit at my office desk smoking a cigar and slapping girls backsides as they walk by but Fianna Fail b*stards put a stop to that with their morals and all and I didn't even vote for them.

gerky

ven0m wrote: »

LED's are more energy efficient in every single respect, & yet no-one has even pushed this technology in Ireland - not even the greens. They refuse to even accept discussion on the outrageous amount of energy used to create a CFL, & how even over it's lifetime it doesn't balance out against a regular bulb. Why? Because they're unformed nincompoops who have retarded bright eyed college morons doing their research, instead of actually going & looking at these things properly, and instead focus on soundbytes, & engage in meaningless codology. These are the same people who in government STILL use ministerial cars, & haven't insisted on the new fleet next year being things like Saab Biopowers or others ............

If they had half as much brains as the verbal diahorea that came out of their mouths, they'd be more credible & wouldn't be seen as such radicals.

For starters I agree leds are most likely the way to go,can you provide evidence than than cfls use more energy over their lifetime.

They use hybrid ministerial cars when the need to but still cycle and use public transport when they can and have got some other minsters to use diesels which can be run on biodiesel but again their only a small party their not going to be able to force all of them to change to hybrids.