Are we creating a little Poland in small island.

heirenach

Are we giving too many privilages to Polish and little or none to others?Should we help those who find it hard to intergrate first?Some polish refer to all Ireland as little Poland. Polish is now spoken more than our native language and now are entitled to their own TV and Radio station.They have now a Polish newspaper the The polish herald. One our main banks has only two languages displayed, English and Polish, What happened to our native Irish. Is Irish now redundent in banks,phone companies etc.?

passive

So... you're really spearheading two agendas here... Pro Irish and anti-Polish. Your attempt to link the two kinda falls short though... Like... "Polish is spoken more than our native language" says, first of all "our native language has been hugely rejected by the majority of the populace and is not in any way the primary or functional language of this country" followed by "and since it's so barely spoken I can compare it, using the word "native" to instil national pride, to the widely spoken (what, 7-10%?) Polish to rouse interest and make people indignant"

Then you present everything like the govt/society has decided to phase polish in and make everything easy for it, rather than the simple supply and demand process that things like the Polish Herald actually mean. There are a lot of Polish people in Ireland. Selling papers makes money. Selling papers in Polish makes money from the Polish people... There's nothing particularly sly or overly-accommodating for the Poles going on there...

So... Yes, there are more people in Ireland who want to speak Polish than people who want to speak Irish. These are two seperate issues, the amount of Polish people (t)here (not a problem for me, see the large thread in after hours for more opinions)... And the low proportion of Irish speakers in Ireland (Sooooo much not a problem for me. If it was decently taught and didn't overlap so much with nationalism I'd have some interest in it in a vaguely nostalgic and Kitsch way, but as things stand it is of no importance to my daily life and language is merely a tool of communication, so I'm not too bothered about which one we use, especially if, regardless of the historical, 800yearsofoppressionfromthesasanaighpigs, reasons, it benefits us economically and in pretty much every way.) Your complaint is weak and poorly articulated. Good day.

Zombrex

heirenach wrote: »

Are we giving too many privilages to Polish and little or none to others?

Yes, because Poland is (since 2004) in the EU, and as such each Polish citizen has the same rights as any other EU citizen. EU citizens have different rights with regard to movement and employment inside the EU (including Ireland) than citizens from outside of the EU.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union

heirenach wrote: »

Should we help those who find it hard to intergrate first?

Certainly. Making foreign people feel welcome and included in Ireland is very important part of integration.

heirenach wrote: »

Polish is now spoken more than our native language

Our native language is English, so I'm pretty sure that is incorrect. If you mean our official language, Irish, that is probably true, but it is also true of pretty much every other language spoken in Ireland. More people speak French regularly than Irish. For all practical purposes Irish is a dead language.

(note there is a difference between people who can speak Irish and people who regularly do)

heirenach wrote: »

and now are entitled to their own TV and Radio station.

Pretty sure anyone is entitled to open a commercial TV or radio station assuming they correctly apply for a license. Otherwise we wouldn't have TV3 or Channel 6

heirenach wrote: »

They have now a Polish newspaper the The polish herald.

Again anyone is able to publish a newspaper assuming they have the resources and money.

heirenach wrote: »

One our main banks has only two languages displayed, English and Polish

It makes strong commercial sense.

Based on the general assumption that you are more likely to be shot than change your bank, banks in Ireland are very interested in attracting new customers, both new Irish customers (normally college students) as well as migrant workers, because they more often than not become long term customers.

It makes sense that they would wish to make it as clear as possible the advertisements they present to these groups. Which is why you find specific ads designed for specific market groups. An ad for a mortgage does not look like an ad for a student current account.

heirenach wrote: »

What happened to our native Irish. Is Irish now redundent in banks,phone companies etc.?

Nothing happened to it. It has never been a language of general use. It makes no sense for a bank to advertise in Irish because few would understand it or at least very few would understand it more than English.

teetotaller

heirenach wrote: »

Should we help those who find it hard to intergrate first?

Wicknight wrote: »

Certainly. Making foreign people feel welcome and included in Ireland is very important part of integration.

NO
If somebody want to integrate he/she can do it very easily right now.
If any person living here is not integrated with irish community that means that they don't want to integrate

what's the problem to learn some english, start talking with irish work collegues to learn some new words, whats the problem to ask manager to correct grammar mistakes etc.

If didn't find and still don't any problems to integrate with you ( irish people ) so why should u do something to improve this process ??

Mostly u are very friendly people, smiling , if foreigner can speak some english u usually don't hear (or don't want to ) our grammar mistakes, and are helping us with missing words. U almost always find some time to give us directions, and ask some questions
We can find all information about taxes, hospitals, social welfare in polish language

So what more would u like to do ?

in my opinion it is ok like it is now and there is not much u can change for better.

SubjectSean

heirenach wrote: »

Are we giving too many privilages to Polish and little or none to others?Should we help those who find it hard to intergrate first?Some polish refer to all Ireland as little Poland. Polish is now spoken more than our native language and now are entitled to their own TV and Radio station.They have now a Polish newspaper the The polish herald. One our main banks has only two languages displayed, English and Polish, What happened to our native Irish. Is Irish now redundent in banks,phone companies etc.?

You post in English so clearly as far as your day to day life is concerned Irish is as dead as a Dodo with you. Who are the people you conjure up who are getting no privilages? If there was no work for the Polish and they weren't such good workers then your own common sense should tell you that they wouldn't be here at all. There are and there have been a hundred little Irelands around the world bearing the stamp of Irish culture. There is nothing wrong when the Irish do it, there is nothing wrong when the Polish do it. It's what people from poor countries do. You sound like a begrudger and your very own roots make a hypocrite of you IMO

mike65

I think Polish TV and radio is restricted to a few programmes on City Channel and local radio. Hardly a takeover of the airwaves.

Integration is something the people have hardly thought of until about now and its debatabe as to whether the government as a whole has given it a first thought, so there will be "Little Polands" not to mention Chinas, Nigerias, Lithuainas and so on unless
a proactive policy is developed.

Goodness knows it not like the Irish don't have first-hand experience to draw upon with regard to County Kilburns, South Bostons etc. Is that inward incestous culture something to be encouraged (by neglect) or diffused?

Mike.

Brian Capture

OP

What sort of a user name is that?

Also as SubjectSean says - why don't you speak Irish?

jhegarty

heirenach wrote: »

Polish is now spoken more than our native language c.?

How many posts do you have in Irish language forum (http://boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=31) .....

none

Zombrex

teetotaller wrote: »

NO
If somebody want to integrate he/she can do it very easily right now.
If any person living here is not integrated with irish community that means that they don't want to integrate

That is a bit of funny thinking ... why do you suppose they don't want to integrate?

teetotaller wrote: »

what's the problem to learn some english

Other than it being expensive and hard to learn ... not much.

teetotaller wrote: »

start talking with irish work collegues to learn some new words

Bit of a catch 22 ... you need English to hold a conversation with an Irish person so you can learn English.

teetotaller wrote: »

whats the problem to ask manager to correct grammar mistakes etc.

No problem at all, I think if a manager did that (assuming the help ask invited) I think that would be great.

But that is an example of someone going out of their way to help a foreign person with integration. Which is something you seem opposed to.

teetotaller wrote: »

If didn't find and still don't any problems to integrate with you ( irish people ) so why should u do something to improve this process ??

Why shouldn't we?

greyed

Regarding Irish, there is no link between its not so recent redundancy and new arrivals to the country, they advertise in polish because it makes economic sense... For Irish to flourish two things have to occur... massive reform of teaching practices and economic incentive... Perhaps something like the gaeltacht quarter they have in belfast would good for tourism in dublin.

Wicknight, our native language is indeed Irish as it originated here and was spoken for thousands of years, and as it is still spoken(yeah, alot less) Irish people still have a claim to their indigenous language even if they choose to ignore it. English is an imported language.. or forcefully exported I should probably say.

Leabhraim an teanga go cumasach, ach ni fhaighaim an deis e a leabhairt go minic go mi-amharach, ach nil se "chomh marbh mar dodo" dom, faighim mo airgead as an ATM tri ghaeilge nuair is feidir liom:D

Sorry for goin off on a bit of tangent there... and no im not a nationalist, love the language... politics only serves to hinder its success.

/edit

That is a bit of funny thinking ... why do you suppose they don't want to integrate?

+1 ...and back on topic;)

teetotaller

Wicknight wrote: »

That is a bit of funny thinking ... why do you suppose they don't want to integrate? [/qoute]

cos if somebody is here 3 years or more or even 1 year and still doesn't have any irish friends or still can't speak any english at all it means that he/ she doesn't want to integrate

Wicknight wrote: »

Other than it being expensive and hard to learn ... not much.

I still don't speak fluent or near fluent english, but my english is more than communicative so from my own experience and form my polish friends experience I can say that english is not hard to learn. Anyway it is not difficult to reach communicative english.

expensive - there are free classes in libraries, also is it expensive to pay 10 euro per lesson if costs are shared ? U don't need much time and money to catch bacisc.....................

Wicknight wrote: »

But that is an example of someone going out of their way to help a foreign person with integration. Which is something you seem opposed to.
Why shouldn't we?

I don't say u shouldn't
in my opinion u generally help enough right now and if somebody wants - can integrate easily. So what more help u want to give to us ?

heirenach

To passive, my thread was to get opinions and not a complaint on intergration and i used polish as an example being the majoriaty. Straight to point.Best way to intergrate ,learn the language <English> spoken and then learn the culture <irish>.Did you not do so in France.?I am not anti Polish.they are a warm,hard working people.Polish is spoken more than our native language.Irish was nearly phased out after 700/800 years of oppression and articles in our constitution tries to revive it.Sadly it will not happen.Irish is part of our national identity even if it is not spoken widely now I am proud of it.Again the best way to intergrate is speak the language
and learn the culture.Happy Xmas.

moe_sizlak

little polands , ive no problem with , little other countries , thats a different story

dr_manhattan

"little polands , ive no problem with , little other countries , thats a different story"

ah, vague and non specific prejudice, how nice: Well said, spoken like a true local yokel at the inn house. We can have the torches out later and burn whatever nationality you be speakin' about, nobody need know.

but for now, more ale.

moe_sizlak

dr_manhattan wrote: »

"little polands , ive no problem with , little other countries , thats a different story"

ah, vague and non specific prejudice, how nice: Well said, spoken like a true local yokel at the inn house. We can have the torches out later and burn whatever nationality you be speakin' about, nobody need know.

but for now, more ale.

i see mr reactionary gets around

DublinWriter

heirenach wrote: »

Are we giving too many privilages to Polish and little or none to others?...What happened to our native Irish. Is Irish now redundent in banks,phone companies etc.?

I'm not normally a member of the spelling/grammar police, but judging by your post, English also seems to be redundant too.

Last I heard, Irish speakers get loads of grants in the gaelteacht for giving it the auld cupla-focail and the Poles aren't even entitled to social welfare. Your problem is...?

But I'll tell you my problem....the millions of Euro spent translating state-documents in Irish. Money that could *well* be spend elsewhere, anywhere.

We've had 70 years to reinstate Irish since the inception of the Free State, and guess what? We weren't arsed.

Get over it and welcome to Europe. The majority of hard-working Poles arriving here have a working grasp of a second language, and that's a lot more to be said for ourselves.

FruitLover

heirenach wrote: »

Is Irish now redundent in banks,phone companies etc.?

Yes.

Where have you been for the last few hundred years?

heirenach wrote: »

They have now a Polish newspaper the The polish herald.

I've met people who edit a Chinese newspaper in Dublin. Are you going to have a go at them aswell? I've also seen Chinese on ATMs and in banks. Just the same way as I've seen English all over Tokyo and Paris.

dr_manhattan

"i see mr reactionary gets around"

I see you've still got nothing to say for yourself, mister surley yokel...

Jackus

I live(d) very close to polish-german's border. Most places like restaurants, shops, hotels, information centres use both: polish and german languages. We don't have questions about integration in Poland. Why? Its all about simply economy. Germans means money. Polish in Ireland? - money. You can't do anything against it :P
BTW it is my 1st post on this forum, sorry that I don't write in gaelige language. But anyway... failte

moe_sizlak

dr_manhattan wrote: »

"i see mr reactionary gets around"

I see you've still got nothing to say for yourself, mister surley yokel...

whats a yokel and a bit rich you accusing someone of being surly , ive watched you jump down peoples throat day in day out whenever they make even the slightest criticism of minoritys and there religons

pot black

mike65

little polands , ive no problem with , little other countries , thats a different story

C'mon Moe spill the beans. No need to be coy.

Mike.

Karlusss

Bringing the Irish language into it is stupid. Polish people aren't Irish, it's not their fault they speak Polish and not Irish, and it's not their fault that Irish people have abandoned Irish for reasons of economy, laziness or whatever. Polish people have every right to speak Polish to other people who speak Polish. The percentage doesn't matter in the least. Irish people also have every right to speak Irish to each other. But they don't.

Agus tá sé díreach chomh dúr a rá go chiallaíonn póstáil as Béarla go bhfuil an duine ag adhmháil go bhfuil an Ghaeilge marbh.

SubjectSean

mike65 wrote: »

C'mon Moe spill the beans. No need to be coy.

+1 dish the dirt Moe

dr_manhattan

"whats a yokel"

Someone - typically rural but that's irrelevant - who stands around making vague, surly assertions about "outsiders" and "local people"

i.e. you, in your last comment.

"a bit rich you accusing someone of being surly , ive watched you jump down peoples throat day in day out whenever they make even the slightest criticism of minoritys and there religons"

And for my part, I've watched you follow me around, making snipes and comments at me but never actually saying anything of any consequence.

So we bore each other, big deal.

I don't follow you around from thread to thread like a little whinging bitch, so I ask that you extend me the same courtesy, "moe"

And while you're at it: come on there's three of us now asking for clarification: are you going to explain which nationalities you have a problem with, or continue to posture?

JC 2K3

heirenach wrote: »

What happened to our native Irish. Is Irish now redundent in banks,phone companies etc.?

I don't know about phone companies, but some ATMs have the option to use Irish on them and if you requested the option to use Irish on your local ATM I wouldn't be surprised if they facilitated you. Cheque books are available in Irish in nearly all banks and banks in Gaeltacht areas have Irish speakers working in them. Interesting article here: http://www.achgohairithe.com/?p=163

My guess, OP, is that you don't actually speak Irish, have never looked for it and therefore have come to the conclusion that it's dead and no one cares about it. Contrary to Wicknight's assertion, Irish is very much alive and has began to actually grow in recent times, it's just not very visable to those who don't look for it or don't care about it.

dr_manhattan

btw, as an overall comment, i find it perverse when people say "i have a problem with certain nationalities" and when you call them on it, they say they're being hounded...?

"stop hounding me, leave me alone to dislike a person based on the language they speak and their flag"

...?

moe_sizlak

dr_manhattan wrote: »

"whats a yokel"

Someone - typically rural but that's irrelevant - who stands around making vague, surly assertions about "outsiders" and "local people"

i.e. you, in your last comment.

"a bit rich you accusing someone of being surly , ive watched you jump down peoples throat day in day out whenever they make even the slightest criticism of minoritys and there religons"

And for my part, I've watched you follow me around, making snipes and comments at me but never actually saying anything of any consequence.

So we bore each other, big deal.

I don't follow you around from thread to thread like a little whinging bitch, so I ask that you extend me the same courtesy, "moe"

And while you're at it: come on there's three of us now asking for clarification: are you going to explain which nationalities you have a problem with, or continue to posture?

you think i follow you personally around , the ego on you
i follow topics alright but not anyone in particular

oh and were i to call someone a whiney little bitch , before you can say the word MODERATOR , a warning light would flash informing me of an infracture
oh and i dont consider you a bore , i consider you a bully and an opponent of free speech

moe_sizlak

dr_manhattan wrote: »

"whats a yokel"

Someone - typically rural but that's irrelevant - who stands around making vague, surly assertions about "outsiders" and "local people"

i.e. you, in your last comment.

"a bit rich you accusing someone of being surly , ive watched you jump down peoples throat day in day out whenever they make even the slightest criticism of minoritys and there religons"

And for my part, I've watched you follow me around, making snipes and comments at me but never actually saying anything of any consequence.

So we bore each other, big deal.

I don't follow you around from thread to thread like a little whinging bitch, so I ask that you extend me the same courtesy, "moe"

And while you're at it: come on there's three of us now asking for clarification: are you going to explain which nationalities you have a problem with, or continue to posture?

you think i follow you personally around , the ego on you
i follow topics alright but not anyone in particular

oh and were i to call someone a whiney little bitch , before you can say the word MODERATOR , a warning light would flash informing me of an infracture
oh and i dont consider you a bore , i consider you a bully and an opponent of free speech

i expect warning to follow for last comment

dr_manhattan

"you think i follow you personally around"

well this is the fourth thread you've shown up in saying "this guy again" and accusing me of hasving an agenda. If you didn't keep personally addressing me I wouldn't notice.

gonna answer the question then?

"oh and i dont consider you a bore , i consider you a bully and an opponent of free speech"

ROFLMAO fight that good fight, GW.

You're just a bore to me.

heirenach

To jc2k3.
Eircom website can be chosen in Polish.
I actually grew up in an Irish speaking area.
I agree with you ,if you look for it you will find it.It is not dead.My main point was that they should intergrate and learn language<English< and culture.Non intergration leads to ghetto,s .It has happened in France and Germany and they still have problems today and they are alot bigger in size and population than Ireland.They have helped us build this economy to where where it is today.

moe_sizlak

heirenach wrote: »

To jc2k3.
Eircom website can be chosen in Polish.
I actually grew up in an Irish speaking area.
I agree with you ,if you look for it you will find it.It is not dead.My main point was that they should intergrate and learn language<English< and culture.Non intergration leads to ghetto,s .It has happened in France and Germany and they still have problems today and they are alot bigger in size and population than Ireland.They have helped us build this economy to where where it is today.

it is not the poles who we need to worry about becoming ghettoised , poles have assimilated well into there host countries down the years

williambonney

moe_sizlak wrote: »

it is not the poles who we need to worry about becoming ghettoised , poles have assimilated well into there host countries down the years

Couldn’t agree with you more, the polish people who will stay here will integrate just fine, and their children will look and sound just like our own children. I hope thousands of them will put down roots here.

BuffyBot

williambonney wrote: »

Couldn’t agree with you more, the polish people who will stay here will integrate just fine, and their children will look and sound just like our own children. I hope thousands of them will put down roots here.

As opposed to the scary "foreign" sounding/looking ones?

williambonney

BuffyBot wrote: »

As opposed to the scary "foreign" sounding/looking ones?

You’re talking about Polish people? I know lots of polish people, none of them are scary, most of them are foreign sounding , but that’s just a language/accent thing. The next generation will sound very much irish.

BuffyBot

No, I'm wondering about your statement that "the polish people who will stay here will integrate just fine, and their children will look and sound just like our own children. I hope thousands of them will put down roots here" and wondering why children who look and sound like "our own children" is so important? What's wrong with those who look and sound different...

Brian Capture

williambonney is a supreme racist.
Probably the most supreme of them all.

click on his profile and look at his other posts

- re Uganda, Portlaoise mayor, Mugabe's appearance.

williambonney

BuffyBot wrote: »

No, I'm wondering about your statement that "the polish people who will stay here will integrate just fine, and their children will look and sound just like our own children. I hope thousands of them will put down roots here" and wondering why children who look and sound like "our own children" is so important? What's wrong with those who look and sound different...

This thread is about polish people and my remarks are about polish people. And polish people look like us and their children will also sound like us. Nothing terribly wrong with that statement.

Brian Capture

williambonney wrote: »

This thread is about polish people and my remarks are about polish people. And polish people look like us and their children will also sound like us. Nothing terribly wrong with that statement.

I'll bet that the only reason that you are so enamoured with them is because it's a Catholic country that spawned the last Pope. John Paul II.

It would be funny if williambonney went to bed and woke up the following morning to discover that he was black.

Stu Margolin in conversation with local radio

dr_manhattan

"and their children will look and sound just like our own children."

I'm glad I'm not the only one thought this was odd.

I'm assuming there's a connection between the implied non-polish who presumably *won't* "look and sound just like our own children." and the "other foreigners" that moe sizlak has a problem with but won't name?

Man, why is it that people who don't like other cultures can only speak in trailing off sentences?

"I'm not a racist but, you know, some people..."
"I've no problem with the polish, but, you know... there's others..."
"Providing they can speak english, that's fine, but a lot of them..."

Funny, really.

If taxi drivers are to be taken at their word, for example, they have "no problem" with anyone, they'd just like them all birched, shot, bleached and taught english please ;-)

nacho libre

"a grotesque piece if ever i read one"

I wonder would a racist stick to his/her beliefs and refuse life saving treatment from a doctor/surgeon who is "foreign" sounding/doesn't look like one of our own?

dr_manhattan

"I wonder would a racist stick to his/her beliefs and refuse life saving treatment from a doctor/surgeon who is "foreign" sounding/doesn't look like one of our own?"

Heh... well, I live in hope.

;-)

djpbarry

heirenach wrote: »

Best way to intergrate ,learn the language <English> spoken and then learn the culture <irish>.

What's this "Irish culture" that foreigners are required to learn?

moe_sizlak wrote: »

little polands , ive no problem with , little other countries , thats a different story

Ooooooh, don't get me started about them "other countries"... :rolleyes:

DublinWriter wrote: »

But I'll tell you my problem....the millions of Euro spent translating state-documents in Irish. Money that could *well* be spend elsewhere, anywhere.

The majority of hard-working Poles arriving here have a working grasp of a second language, and that's a lot more to be said for ourselves.

Well said.

heirenach

Our Irish culture is who we are,that gives us our identity.Our own music,sports,literature and language.After 800 years of oppression we are lucky to have any.
I believe that Irish language will become our national language and english secondary.So you better start learning now,its harder when you get older.

Brian Capture

heirenach wrote: »

Our Irish culture is who we are,that gives us our identity.Our own music,sports,literature and language.After 800 years of oppression we are lucky to have any.
I believe that Irish language will become our national language and english secondary.So you better start learning now,its harder when you get older.

do you think the victims of the 7/7/05 London bombing deserved it because they were English?

djpbarry

heirenach wrote: »

Our own music,sports,literature and language.

You expect all immigrants to learn all about Irish music, sport, literature and the Irish language?

heirenach wrote: »

I believe that Irish language will become our national language and english secondary.

Right... :rolleyes:

How's that going to happen exactly?

heirenach

Nobody deserves to be killed as no country deserves to be occupied.Irish will come back some how,some day soon.

djpbarry

heirenach wrote: »

Irish will come back some how,some day soon.

So, basically what you're saying is, you don't have a clue how it will happen, but you hope that Irish will become a major language at some point in the future?

DeVore

So sick of people with agendas coming along and pretending they are concerned citizens.

Personally I cant wait until the gimps and chavs in this city are replaced with the in general far nicer immigrants.


DeV.

djpbarry

DeVore wrote: »

Personally I cant wait until the gimps and chavs in this city are replaced with the in general far nicer immigrants.

Second that.

DublinWriter

heirenach wrote: »

I believe that Irish language will become our national language and english secondary.So you better start learning now,its harder when you get older.

And just how will this seismic cultural shift occur? Are we going to stand in front of the GPO in 2016 and get all dewy-eyed?

Blisterman

heirenach wrote: »

Our Irish culture is who we are,that gives us our identity.Our own music,sports,literature and language.After 800 years of oppression we are lucky to have any.
I believe that Irish language will become our national language and english secondary.So you better start learning now,its harder when you get older.

In the globalised world we live in today. It really makes little sense for most people to try and speak Irish as opposed to English.
There are hundreds of times more books, films, websites, songs etc in English than Irish.
I think the current batch of Polish immigrants will integrate just fine, in a generation or two. Polish Culture and Irish Culture are really not that far apart, and History shows us that immigrants eventually become part of the culture they enter.