nothing we don't know already, but......

galwaytt

I thought block exemption was supposed to be helping us...????

So, I don't care whether you're pro or con, but I think we need to say NO to the next EU vote, irrespective of the subject - nobody here is listening. Time to do a Frenchie on it and wake our guys up......

Ireland 29% higher car prices than EU average...

Biro

It'll be a guaranteed NO vote from me anyway.

cantdecide

I've asked this before but


how many of those counties have our rates of road tax and fuel duties also etc etc - I think we have to be the highest paying country for motoring due to taxation by a mile?? We get hit badly on every front...

TheBigLebowski

I don't have a clue what the next referendum is about but I will definitely be voting against solely because of the fact that I have to pay an illegal import duty on my car.

Cionád

I think the next one is on the Treaty of Lisbon (kinda a watered down EU constitution). We;re the only country to hold a referendum on the matter so we have the power. I'll most likely be voting yes however. :-P

At least our fuel prices are quite low compared to other western european nations, except diesel, grrr

Gandalf23

Its a disgrace that block exemption means nothing in this rip off country.

I will definately be voting NO in the next EU vote because of this and many other issues. This current Government (including the Greens) are a bunch of lying, currupt, incompetent, arrogant, out of touch, smug, two faced ****. I have always voted FF and Green but never ever ever ever again.

L1011

cantdecide wrote: »

I've asked this before but


how many of those counties have our rates of ... fuel duties.

Very few - we have extremely cheap fuel compared to most of the EU. The accession states are a few cent cheaper to a few cent dearer but most of the old EU is up to 35 cent a litre dearer than here.

cornbb

I'm not aware of how the ratification of the Lisbon treaty could make things even worse for Irish motorists, could someone sum it up for me? I'm not being a smartarse or anything, I just don't know...

ballooba

I think the OP is suggesting a No Vote purely in protest.

Cionád

cornbb wrote: »

I'm not aware of how the ratification of the Lisbon treaty could make things even worse for Irish motorists, could someone sum it up for me? I'm not being a smartarse or anything, I just don't know...

I think they will vote no as a protest to the current government, "irrespective of the subject"

cornbb

While the government's numerous f*ckups annoy me as much as the next man I think a No vote would harm Ireland and Europe more than it would damage the government. There are plenty other ways to protest these issues, e.g. at a general election. I don't think the "vote no just to piss off the government" attitude makes any sense tbh. But each to his own. I'll be voting Yes anyway.

E92

What the OP forgot to mention is that it is because of VRT that Irish car prices are 29% dearer on average. Nothing else.

Block Exemption is nothing to do with this, it has made cars more expensive because the price of cars before VRT here was always a lot lower than it was in mainland europe.

Block Exemption means that the price of cars will be the same before tax no more, no less give or take a few percent(they are allowed charge a higher pre tax price here because we are RHD).

When the new VRT rates come in, the price of many cars should drop a lot, like a lot of 1,3,5 and 6 series BMWs, most diesels, some petrols, especially superminis like the Yaris etc, and the price of others should go up like 1.4 Focuses, Golfs etc, petrol family cars with 1.6 and 1.8 litre engines like Avensis, Mondeo etc, all luxury cars, most executive cars, large 4X4's, most large MPV's performance and sports cars etc.


I have no sympathy for all those people who voted for Feel and Fail or the Greens and are now moaning about it. You obviously "forgot":rolleyes: what happened 5 years ago, when you put them in that time as well. And you would put them in again in the morning if there was an election and all of a sudden moan again about them.

You get the Government you deserve. You must live with the consequences of your decision. No good moaning about it now.

The only way to get rid of them is not to say no to this treaty but to say a big fat NO at the local and European elections in 2009 and more importantly say no when the next general election comes in 2012.

cantdecide

This is always the case. I think I would vote FF in again but there must be a way of effectively protesting against the victimisation of the Irish motorist.

Lowering income tax by a couple of poxy blips and having it subsidised by the motorists only creates a falsehood. "Government lowers income tax" is a great headline but the sub heading should read "by victimising car owners". Can't we just have straight forward taxation???

The screw is tighly on all of us but loosening it for diesels etc doesn't negate the fact thta becasue of taxation, we get f*ck all value for money.

E92

cantdecide wrote: »

This is always the case. I think I would vote FF in again but there must be a way of effectively protesting against the victimisation of the Irish motorist.

Lowering income tax by a couple of poxy blips and having it subsidised by the motorists only creates a falsehood. "Government lowers income tax" is a great headline but the sub heading should read "by victimising car owners". Can't we just have straight forward taxation???

The screw is tighly on all of us but loosening it for diesels etc doesn't negate the fact thta becasue of taxation, we get f*ck all value for money.

This is what I can never understand. People whinge and moan about them and then convienently "forget":rolleyes: about all the bad things FF have done and put them back in power at every general election. Its actions like this that let them think that they can get away with murder and if everyone does what you do is it any wonder they are like a law into their own hands? There is no incentive for them to do things any better if thats the type of attitude that exists with the public at large. There are no standards in politics because the Irish people have no standards.
Nothing will ever change with attitudes like this.


As Honda once said for a marketing campaign, "Hate something, Change Something", if you don't like the way things are done DON'T vote for them, I mean how hard can it be? Voting for them is saying well lads yer're doing a great job sure carry on the way ye are cause ye're so bloody fantastic.

Biro

cornbb wrote: »

While the government's numerous f*ckups annoy me as much as the next man I think a No vote would harm Ireland and Europe more than it would damage the government. There are plenty other ways to protest these issues, e.g. at a general election. I don't think the "vote no just to piss off the government" attitude makes any sense tbh. But each to his own. I'll be voting Yes anyway.

I agree with you alright, that voting to piss off the government isn't the best attitude, but I'm voting No cause I want my vote to count in my country for as long as I live. I'm not in favour of selling out to Europe.
So from my point of view, I'm quite happy at the idea that people will be voting against the treaty out of spite. It might be the wrong attitude, but it's the right result in the end!

De Hipster

cantdecide wrote: »

I think I would vote FF in again

Seriously, did you read what you were posting?! You have just validified every shafting FF ever gave you as a citizen, a motorist & future FF voter, may they shaft you & all who vote for them for generations to come...with that thinking you thoroughally deserve it!

The only problem is the likes of myself who rationally refuse to vote for these corrupt, theiving scum get shafted with you & because of you.

E92

Biro wrote: »

I agree with you alright, that voting to piss off the government isn't the best attitude, but I'm voting No cause I want my vote to count in my country for as long as I live. I'm not in favour of selling out to Europe.
So from my point of view, I'm quite happy at the idea that people will be voting against the treaty out of spite. It might be the wrong attitude, but it's the right result in the end!

I'm voting no too because the rest of Europe's political leaders don't have the balls to put it to their people. We want cooperation with Europe, not the United States of Europe! The EU is coming up with idea after idea to make life harder for the motorist, be it wanting to force Germany to have blanket speed limits on the Autobahns, having the pedestrain safety legislation which has added as much as €5000 to the price of a car and added on several hundreds of kilos and made cars bigger and worse for the enviornment and then at the same time have the gall to tell the car manufactureres to get their emissions down to 120 g/km by 2012(there is an article in the Irish Times today in the Motioring Supplement about how they are going to enforce this and by God have they some nerve, I have absolutely no objection to them wanting to lower CO2 emissions btw, anything that makes cars cheaper to run is to be welcomed however what pisses me off is the hipocrasy of them on the one hand saying reduce emissions but on the other hand making cars put on a load of weight for the ped safety rules) and to top it all off they now have the open skies agreement so we can all fly to the US more often and more cheaply so thereby increasing pollution massively.

E92

cantdecide wrote: »

This is always the case. I think I would vote FF in again but there must be a way of effectively protesting against the victimisation of the Irish motorist.

There is. It's called vote for an opposition party like Fine Gael at the next General Election.

Seth Brundle

galwaytt wrote: »

So, I don't care whether you're pro or con, but I think we need to say NO to the next EU vote, irrespective of the subject - nobody here is listening. Time to do a Frenchie on it and wake our guys up......

Whats the point? Do you not remember the Nice Treaty referendum?

cantdecide wrote: »

how many of those counties have our rates of road tax and fuel duties also etc etc - I think we have to be the highest paying country for motoring due to taxation by a mile?? We get hit badly on every front...

Denmark has higher registration taxes.

TheBigLebowski wrote: »

I don't have a clue what the next referendum is about but I will definitely be voting against solely because of the fact that I have to pay an illegal import duty on my car.

unfair - yes
illegal - no

MYOB wrote: »

Very few - we have extremely cheap fuel compared to most of the EU. The accession states are a few cent cheaper to a few cent dearer but most of the old EU is up to 35 cent a litre dearer than here.

We seem to be about average - check out this...

galwaytt

...and, being the only state in the EU that gets to vote, imho we have a duty to speak for all those who can't/are being denied their democratic franchise.

The only effective way to do that is to vote NO.

cornbb

galwaytt wrote: »

...and, being the only state in the EU that gets to vote, imho we have a duty to speak for all those who can't/are being denied their democratic franchise.

The only effective way to do that is to vote NO.

...well in that case you would not be speaking up for those being denied the right to vote who would have voted Yes. You can only vote for yourself, it would be presumptuous to claim to be voting on behalf of the rest of Europe too.

L1011

kbannon wrote: »

We seem to be about average - check out this...

Ignore the accession countries. We're well below average for the EU15

Austria 1.171 - same
Belgium 1.433 - more
Finland 1.322 - more
Germany 1.372 - more
Greece 1.032 - less
Netherlands 1.470 - more
Italy 1.330 - more
Luxembourg 1.131 - barely less
Spain 1.057 - less
France 1.295 - more
Portugal 1.314 - more

Both of those "less" are a countries relatively a fair bit poorer than us, at that.

trellheim

vote for an opposition party like Fine Gael

which is even more Europhile than Fianna Fail :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Biro

E92 wrote: »

We want cooperation with Europe, not the United States of Europe!

I 100% agree with your post, in particular this sentence! Started out as the EEC, the European Economic Community, which was a kind of trade agreement, which was an excellent idea. However, the greed and power hunger got to them and then it changed to the "European Union" and it's been gathering momentum ever since then, with muppets like Bertie selling out countries.

jmayo

Gandalf23 wrote: »

Its a disgrace that block exemption means nothing in this rip off country.

I will definately be voting NO in the next EU vote because of this and many other issues. This current Government (including the Greens) are a bunch of lying, currupt, incompetent, arrogant, out of touch, smug, two faced ****. I have always voted FF and Green but never ever ever ever again.

At last you see the light
So you thought that the last government had done such a good job you voted them back in. :rolleyes:
You will find the current government is made up of approx 90% odd of the same individuals as the last government so when do you think they suddenly got arrogant, corrupt, incompetent, smug, two faced and became ****?

Most people that are now complaining voted for the above bunch of chancers.
It was very hard not to notice what had been going on for the last 10 odd years of the FF/whoever coaltion governments, but still the majority of people voted them back in.

You are almost as bad as the one that doesn't agree with them regarding motor policy, wants to protest somehow and then will vote for them the next time around.
I give up :eek:

At this stage if bertie baffoon asked me to vote for christmas I wouldn't

ninty9er

Cionád wrote: »

I think they will vote no as a protest to the current government, "irrespective of the subject"

SF are the only party encouraging a no vote, mainly becase there's publicity to be had out of it....the treaty just cconsolidates the existing bureaucracy to make it more workable...voting no because of VRT will do nothing to further the VRT cause. In fact we're probably going to end up a lower motoring tax nation from next July than a good 30% of EU countries.

So while I haven't yet decided which way I'm going to vote...my decision won't be based on any domestic issues as that would be plain stupid and stooping to the French level of intelligence!!

meathstevie

Folks, who's your best guarantee against 1980's style inflation and interest ? The EU or the gang of incompetents bar a handfull of exceptions who've proven their inability from independence till now ? The new treaty is not much more than consolidating what's there and providing a framework for deeper cooperation between member states if they want to.

junkyard

If enough of us got together we could buy a piece of Africa and set up our own country, I'm sure there's a nice Nigerian chap somewhere that would sell us a bit of land there. Just think of it, no taxes, speed limits, rain or even political corruption, sheer bliss if you ask me.:D

meathstevie

That's an idea junkyard, get another 3 lads and we all pitch in a tenner. That must be a fair offer Mugabe can't decline for us to purchase Zimbabwe...

junkyard

Cionád wrote: »

I think they will vote no as a protest to the current government, "irrespective of the subject"

The current government don't give a f*ck about anything only looking after themselves, they have their pensions and perks now anyway and are laughing all the way to the bank. They lied their way into power as usual and their Muppet supporters came out in force to vote them in. It just goes to show that the majority support corruption, lies and dishonest practices in this country. Politics in this country and like most others, stinks, in my view they are THE most despicable people on the planet. It's like the old saying, " the rat race is over, the rats won", and in this case it's very true, no disrespect to rats to put them in the same league as politicians I might add.

Seth Brundle

MYOB wrote: »

Ignore the accession countries. We're well below average for the EU15

Austria 1.171 - same
Belgium 1.433 - more
Finland 1.322 - more
Germany 1.372 - more
Greece 1.032 - less
Netherlands 1.470 - more
Italy 1.330 - more
Luxembourg 1.131 - barely less
Spain 1.057 - less
France 1.295 - more
Portugal 1.314 - more

Both of those "less" are a countries relatively a fair bit poorer than us, at that.

I see your point but I still disagree that we are much cheaper than
Your original point was that "we have extremely cheap fuel compared to most of the EU". I disagreed and pointed out that seemed to be about average (I never said above or below). I didn't disagree wiht your point about the older states, etc.
However of the 11 countries you list (and Ireland) the average is 1.259. Ireland is the first country below average by 6.79cent and three countries are within the same amount above average.
Throw in countries not listed such as Denmark, the UK, Holland, UK (I know NI is listed) and all the accession states which are part of the EU and the average would undoubtedly drop.

L1011

Holland is listed already - "Netherlands", UK would distort the average upwards by nearly 4c if added, they're both still EU15 countries.

You can't compare fuel prices here to the accession countries, as with the exception of Slovenia they're skinted, basically.

I could have filled up at 114.9 today in Tesco, or yesterday in some no-brander in Galway, the average on my drive to Galway yesterday was 116.9 or so. I'd say were closer to 10c below average, not 6.

Either way, the point that the rest of the EU15 doesn't generally have our levels of fuel duties - as the parent poster was implying they were high - standards. They have higher levels...

Seth Brundle

Re Holland - Im going blind.
WRT the current prices - the prices I linked to are for Nov.

E92

trellheim wrote: »

which is even more Europhile than Fianna Fail :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

And this has absolutely nothing to do with what the OP was talking about. Cantdecide said:

cantdecide wrote:

This is always the case. I think I would vote FF in again but there must be a way of effectively protesting against the victimisation of the Irish motorist.

Now explain to me what this has got to do with Fine Gael and Europe?

About the only thing that would persuade me to vote for the treaty is the idea that if I vote no I am voting the way the Shinners want me to vote. I cringe at the idea of voting with the commies on something. I despise them, but I'm going to bite the bullet and vote no.

junkyard

Tbh the shinners know there's going to be a big no vote and want to be seen to be on the peoples side and some people will actually think they mightn't be such a bad lot after all.

Gandalf23

ninty9er wrote: »

SF are the only party encouraging a no vote, mainly becase there's publicity to be had out of it....the treaty just cconsolidates the existing bureaucracy to make it more workable...voting no because of VRT will do nothing to further the VRT cause. In fact we're probably going to end up a lower motoring tax nation from next July than a good 30% of EU countries.

So while I haven't yet decided which way I'm going to vote...my decision won't be based on any domestic issues as that would be plain stupid and stooping to the French level of intelligence!!

So if "we're probably going to end up a lower motoring tax nation from next July than a good 30% of EU countries" that would mean we are a higher motoring tax nation than 70% of EU countries? Phew, I was worried we were being ripped off there ... (another glowing example of FF spin and " smoke and daggers").

Your remark about the French is racist and offensive. But I suppose the picture in your sig explains your attitudes ...

ninty9er

Gandalf23 wrote: »

So if "we're probably going to end up a lower motoring tax nation from next July than a good 30% of EU countries" that would mean we are a higher motoring tax nation than 70% of EU countries? Phew, I was worried we were being ripped off there ... (another glowing example of FF spin and " smoke and daggers").

so being 1% higher than we'll say France would agrieve you???

God help you...have you considere that the average industrial wage in this country is higher than 70% of the countries.
An absolute measurement counts for nothing!

Get real...we're a sparsely populated country whose politicians of all denominations have to put up with the most unsupportive public outside of France and Italy...and even only marginally the Italians. The tax burden on th individual is waaaay too low in this country for the area:population ratio.

I suggest you go and live in high rise in Germany and pay their local and national taxes....at least the Autobähne aren't tolled!!

Gandalf23 wrote: »

Your remark about the French is racist and offensive. But I suppose the picture in your sig explains your attitudes ...

Well, in a country where they burn other people's property when the president who was elected on the platform of economic reform wanted to make them work 30 minutes extra per day and reform working practice. Imagine...the cheek of him to do what he said he would!!

Gandalf23

ninty9er wrote: »

so being 1% higher than we'll say France would agrieve you???

Well actually yes it would. I'm sick of paying over the EU average for everything in this country.

ninty9er wrote: »

Get real...we're a sparsely populated country whose politicians of all denominations have to put up with the most unsupportive public outside of France and Italy...and even only marginally the Italians. The tax burden on th individual is waaaay too low in this country for the area:population ratio.

Its terrible that our politicians have to put up with us. Poor babies, and sure they hardly even get paid enough for the job ...

ninty9er wrote: »

So while I haven't yet decided which way I'm going to vote...my decision won't be based on any domestic issues as that would be plain stupid and stooping to the French level of intelligence!!

Your original quote was racist, disgusting and highly offensive. That someone would make a comment like that says a lot about them. Its even worse that you try to justify what you said by generalizing about an entire nation ... you would have apologised unreservedly if you had any moral courage. Would you have made the same remark about the Jews? Or travelers? Or Nigerians? I doubt it ...

Riskymove

E92 wrote: »

I'm voting no too because the rest of Europe's political leaders don't have the balls to put it to their people.

The reason the Government will have a referendum here is because they have to under our constitutional framework...if they did not have to they would not either!!

cantdecide

cantdecide wrote: »

there must be a way of effectively protesting against the victimisation of the Irish motorist.

You can't judge one of the most successful governments we've ever had on their attitude to one topic alone.

I grew up poor in the 80s and in my relatively short life I've seen the country pass a point of no return in terms of quality of life mainly because of FF. I'm not their number one fan- I just think they've done more right than wrong and generally speaking they're the best of a bad bunch. It doesn't follow that everyone who voted against them this time was a car lover and everyone who voted for them was a cyclist.

I just want them to leave the motorists alone- they're cooking the books by making it seem we are a low tax country by heaping it all onto the motorists. Particularly the ones with enough cash for a new car- it's as scandalous as the window tax but I can't vote for individual policies- I can only vote for the whole show unfortunately.

E92

Here goes more nonsense. FF are "the best of a bad bunch". What utter nonsense. Have you "conviently":rolleyes: forgotten which Government brought our inflation level to a record low 1.5%? Or which government was creating 1,000 new jobs per week? Or which Government introduced the 10% Corporation tax rate?

Oh wait that was a Fine Gael and Labour Government.(the 94-97 one) is job creation and sound economuic management of the economy not important at all? Is that not what it takes for there to be "the best of a bad bunch"?

FF have had it so easy for the economy, because FG+Lab handed them an economy that was in tip top condition and no matter how hard anyone could have tried it would have been impossible to balls up.

What happened under FF? Mysteriously the economy always seems to take a nose dive after an election. We have cutbacks and then low and behold the economy always manages to be in fighting form and they have the biggest giveaway budgets right before an election. Never after. Things always get tough after an election. There are no standards, no accountability no nothing from this present government. "Experience" my backside.

What people choose to remember(this selective memory thing is great, I wish I could do it) about them is the 80s, and nobody not even me is going to defend the economic performance of the 80s. Nobody is going to defend the tax on childrens shoes for instance. However FF when they were in power in the 80s were just as reckless then as now. We needed to tighten our belts they said. Except for them of course. Back in the 40s and 50s when they were in power things were tough then too. FF had a spending bonanza before the elections in the 82 elections IIRC and the countrys finances were in dire straights. Hence why the FG+Lab Govt of the 80s were so tight. They had nothing to spend. They could borrow and put the country into further debt i suppose but that wouldn't have been very sound management of an economy now would it?

cjt156

Have to agree with cantdecide; I remember the 70's and 80's and, believe me kids, you think you have it rough now?
You have never been so wealthy, so fully employed and so low-taxed. And, while I despise much of what FF has done behind closed doors in the past, there is no way I would trust Enda charisma-bypass and Pat purple-faced-blow-hard Rabbitte at the helm of this economy.

Gandalf23

ninty9er wrote: »

So while I haven't yet decided which way I'm going to vote...my decision won't be based on any domestic issues as that would be plain stupid and stooping to the French level of intelligence!!

I've been thinking about this particular post and I'm still shocked by its ignorant racist content and tone. I have relatives in France and they are far from stupid. This comment meets most of the widely accepted definitions of racism, and should not be tolerated in this or any other moderated forum.

I would now like to ask one of the mods to ban the poster according to the charter as posted by mbannon as follows ... "abusive comments in posts will result in a warning and then a good hard banning. If a moderator feels that it is warranted then a ban may apply following just one such comment". I believe a banning is warrented in this case as the poster has had an opportunity to either withdraw the comment or apologise, neither of which he has done.

Racist comment of this type should not be tolerated.

Suggestion for the poster ... find your good buddy Conor Lenihan and you and him can enjoy a few laughs and a "kebab" or two as you browse the National Front or BNP forums ...

jmayo

cjt156 wrote: »

Have to agree with cantdecide; I remember the 70's and 80's and, believe me kids, you think you have it rough now?
You have never been so wealthy, so fully employed and so low-taxed. And, while I despise much of what FF has done behind closed doors in the past, there is no way I would trust Enda charisma-bypass and Pat purple-faced-blow-hard Rabbitte at the helm of this economy.

Well cjt156 you will soon find out how great the economy is?

I also remember the 1980s when only some people could afford to run cars nevermind buy new ones.
People that could afford new cars didn't buy fancy cars, they bought cheap reliable cars i.e. VW, Toyota and Fords (which had questionable reliability).
The ones that couldn't afford those brands bought Ladas and then lived to regret it.

We didn't buy convertibles, 4x4s, Alfas that broke every other day.
We bought reliablility and small engines because that was all people could afford.

When the residential property construction levels plummets next year watch how great a job bertie and the boys make of the economy.
Then people might actually cop on to fact that the current economy is built on quick sand.
Over the last 5 years they have been lucky.
Yes lucky due to cheap credit supply and a nation of eejits willing to pay above and beyond the real value for shoebox properties in the ar**hole of nowhere.
What else has been going on over last 5 years ?
Oh yes we have been building shopping centres and fancy furniture shops.
Take a look at how many people you see in any of these furniture shops.

I believe the future for this country is very bleak so on a car note I am looking forward to picking up a cheap BMW.

ninty9er

Gandalf23 wrote: »

I've been thinking about this particular post and I'm still shocked by its ignorant racist content and tone. I have relatives in France and they are far from stupid. This comment meets most of the widely accepted definitions of racism, and should not be tolerated in this or any other moderated forum.

I would now like to ask one of the mods to ban the poster according to the charter as posted by mbannon as follows ... "abusive comments in posts will result in a warning and then a good hard banning. If a moderator feels that it is warranted then a ban may apply following just one such comment". I believe a banning is warrented in this case as the poster has had an opportunity to either withdraw the comment or apologise, neither of which he has done.

Racist comment of this type should not be tolerated.

Suggestion for the poster ... find your good buddy Conor Lenihan and you and him can enjoy a few laughs and a "kebab" or two as you browse the National Front or BNP forums ...

I've qualified what I said about the French and believe it or not I think the mentality of a nation whereby the amounts of people participating in riots because of social issues (ironic isn't it) is that large has a poor international image. I'm not saying your relatives conform to that, but just like the Irish are a nation of whingers, I would consider the French to be a nation of unintelligent rioters.

If you can come on here and slag 80,000 people who make up a party basing it on 100, maybe 150 public reps you don't like, then I'm damn well en titled to hold the opinion I do on the French mentality.

Even the OP suggested we "do a Frenchie on it" are you going to report him too, because I'm certainly reporting you for outright calling me a racist, which is personal abuse on this forum. Maybe you should read the charter a little better next time you go looking for sticks to beat people with!


I have no issue with individual French people, I do have an issue with their collective national mentality!

And I will NOT be apologising or withdrawing my comment!

cornbb

ninty9er wrote: »

I've qualified what I said about the French and believe it or not I think the mentality of a nation whereby the amounts of people participating in riots because of social issues (ironic isn't it) is that large has a poor international image. I'm not saying your relatives conform to that, but just like the Irish are a nation of whingers, I would consider the French to be a nation of unintelligent rioters.

If you can come on here and slag 80,000 people who make up a party basing it on 100, maybe 150 public reps you don't like, then I'm damn well en titled to hold the opinion I do on the French mentality.

Even the OP suggested we "do a Frenchie on it" are you going to report him too, because I'm certainly reporting you for outright calling me a racist, which is personal abuse on this forum. Maybe you should read the charter a little better next time you go looking for sticks to beat people with!


I have no issue with individual French people, I do have an issue with their collective national mentality!

And I will NOT be apologising or withdrawing my comment!

Given the relatively tiny number of rioters, using the rioters as an example of the French national mentality is absolutely ludicrous. I'm not trying to justify rioting, but at least they had a cause of some sort. Remember the Orange March riots on the streets of Dublin, do you think those guys had a cause? Collectively, the French have the balls to stand up to what they disagree with. They really pissed off the Americans when they told GWB to go f*ck himself before the Iraq invasion but they didn't care and they stuck by their guns.

Of course the Irish government believe that they know whats best for the people and would love if we'd just shut up and let them get on with doing a half-assed job of running the country.

ninty9er

ninty9er wrote: »

Even the OP suggested we "do a Frenchie on it" are you going to report him too, because I'm certainly reporting you for outright calling me a racist, which is personal abuse on this forum. Maybe you should read the charter a little better next time you go looking for sticks to beat people with!

Actually, I couldn't be arsed wasting my time on you; explaining to a mod...
It's lunchtime and it's Christmas so I'm in a good festive mood and not in the form for nitpicking and pissing all over someone else's day. Have a happy Christmas

craichoe

VRT is not illegal.

If VRT is Illegal then they should bring in a Uniform tax rate across Europe.

Looking forward to paying between 32% and 52% in Income tax ? with no tax free allowance?

Gandalf23

ninty9er wrote: »

I've qualified what I said about the French and believe it or not I think the mentality of a nation whereby the amounts of people participating in riots because of social issues (ironic isn't it) is that large has a poor international image. I'm not saying your relatives conform to that, but just like the Irish are a nation of whingers, I would consider the French to be a nation of unintelligent rioters.

If you can come on here and slag 80,000 people who make up a party basing it on 100, maybe 150 public reps you don't like, then I'm damn well en titled to hold the opinion I do on the French mentality.

Even the OP suggested we "do a Frenchie on it" are you going to report him too, because I'm certainly reporting you for outright calling me a racist, which is personal abuse on this forum. Maybe you should read the charter a little better next time you go looking for sticks to beat people with!


I have no issue with individual French people, I do have an issue with their collective national mentality!

And I will NOT be apologising or withdrawing my comment!

I have no desire to bring Politics into this forum ... this is motoring and all my other posts have been about my purchase of a 1996 BMW and the changes in VRT. There is a politics forum more suited to this kind of discussion. I was willing to ingore the rubbish about FF and other policital stuff you were spouting. However I refuse to let you get away unchallenged with racist and obscene comment. I was willing to let this drop if you had simply apologised ... would it have killed you to say you were wrong? Instead you just keep digging ...

The Oxford English Dictionary defines racism as a "belief or ideology that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, especially to distinguish it as being either superior or inferior to another race or races"

You stated the following of the French ... "So while I haven't yet decided which way I'm going to vote...my decision won't be based on any domestic issues as that would be plain stupid and stooping to the French level of intelligence"

You suggest that the French as a nation have a lower level of intelligence than the rest of us. Would you suggest the same of Nigerians? What about Travellers? Or is it just those smelly, cheese eating, surrender monkies the French that are more stupid than us?

QED ... You sir are a racist. Plain and simple. This is my opinion supported by legal definition and case law. The good members of boards can make up their own minds on this.

It says a lot about you that you refuse to withdraw or apologise for your disgraceful racist comment ... shame on you.

Cionád

Gandalf23 wrote: »

I have no desire to bring Politics into this forum ... this is motoring and all my other posts have been about my purchase of a 1996 BMW and the changes in VRT. There is a politics forum more suited to this kind of discussion. I was willing to ingore the rubbish about FF and other policital stuff you were spouting. However I refuse to let you get away unchallenged with racist and obscene comment. I was willing to let this drop if you had simply apologised ... would it have killed you to say you were wrong? Instead you just keep digging ...

The Oxford English Dictionary defines racism as a "belief or ideology that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, especially to distinguish it as being either superior or inferior to another race or races"

You stated the following of the French ... "So while I haven't yet decided which way I'm going to vote...my decision won't be based on any domestic issues as that would be plain stupid and stooping to the French level of intelligence"

You suggest that the French as a nation have a lower level of intelligence than the rest of us. Would you suggest the same of Nigerians? What about Travellers? Or is it just those smelly, cheese eating, surrender monkies the French that are more stupid than us?

QED ... You sir are a racist. Plain and simple. This is my opinion supported by legal definition and case law. The good members of boards can make up their own minds on this.

It says a lot about you that you refuse to withdraw or apologise for your disgraceful racist comment ... shame on you.

Well said.

ninty9er wrote:

I would consider the French to be a nation of unintelligent rioters

What???!!, what age are you?, have you no education?
Are the irish a nation of terrorists?

cancan

Well since an election is the only time the masses get to display their power, and a NO vote would make Bertie look pretty stupid in front of the other leaders, I say go for it.
Great idea.

The FF element here have demonstrated enough reasons to make a protest vote worthwhile.