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Introduction to Astronomy, Want a telescope? Please read before posting.

  • 19-12-2007 9:26am
    #1
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 1,425 Mod ✭✭✭✭


    Over the past few weeks I have been slowly adding to this in MS Word as I think of what I would best like this thread to contain. If you are a beginner I highly recommend that you read all of this!

    Index :

    1.0 - Introduction
    1.1 - Where to start
    1.2 - Homework
    1.3 - Light, light and even more light
    1.4 - Magnification
    1.5 - Telescopes

    1.5.1 - Refractors
    1.5.2 - Reflectors
    1.5.3 - Catadioptrics
    1.6 - Mounts
    1.6.1 - Alt-azimuth
    1.6.2 - Equatorial
    1.6.3 - Go-To Drive
    1.7 - The Celestial Co-ordinate System
    1.7.1 - Right Ascension (R.A)
    1.7.2 - Declination (Dec)
    1.8 - What Telescope is right for you?
    1.9 - Observing in the day
    1.10 - Observing at night

    1.10.1 - Averted vision
    1.11 - Planetary Observation


    1.0 Introduction

    On a personal note I would like to say that astronomy is without a doubt the most awe inspiring hobby I know of. A little taste of the universe is open to all beginner and amateur gazers alike. Obviously much more is open to professionals with funding etc. but that’s beside the point. The universe however is rich with colour, sadly because our eyes don’t work the same way as camera exposures do for example, you wont be seeing full colour vista’s, directly from your eyepiece. That’s the territory of astrophotography. The most famous telescope is in orbit above our planet, it is called the Hubble Space Telescope (HST), if you have any interest in space you have seen some of its images.


    1.1 Where to start:

    Get yourself a pair of binoculars; you will commonly see binoculars being stated as for example 10x50, 20x100. These numbers mean; times magnification and the diameter of the objective lenses, so for a 10x50 pair they are capable of 10 times magnification (or 10x) and have 50mm Objective lenses. 10x50 is a good starting point for a first pair of binoculars as they can be found cheaply and have adequate light gathering ability due to the 50mm lenses for a 10 times magnification. 10x50 spec aren’t exactly astronomical binoculars but they are a very nice cheap companion to have.

    It is very important that you don’t buy a pair with a silly spec, by this I mean for example 10x20. As the aperture of the lenses will more often than not allow sufficient light to accommodate a 10x magnification, for distant objects. A good way to choose will be to look at what kind of magnification you want, and then multiply that by at least a factor of 5, in some cases 4.5. For a practical ratio between magnification and size, the diameter shouldn’t be divisible by more than 5 by its magnification. For example a 15x150 would be silly. 15/150 = its divisible by 10. With a lens diameter of 150mm a pair could easily focus with 30x magnification

    Since you traditionally hold binoculars in your hands the bigger ones with higher magnification can be very unsteady to look through, high powered binoculars tend to come with optional tripod mounts which can alleviate unwanted shaking for better stability.

    When using binoculars for astronomy purposes its always best to fix on one
    position at a time for even up to a minute (or longer) as opposed to just panning very quickly around the sky.

    Now that you have your binoculars, take them outside for first light and familiarize yourself with them, specifically acquaint yourself with the focuser in daylight so that you will have a good idea of when they are in focus and when they’re not for any given distance. Also pick a target to observe without the aid of the binoculars, and then once you have found something, stay centred on it and bring the binoculars up to your eyes, are you seeing what you picked out to observe? It may seem like a silly exercise but when you start observing the night sky its very easy to mistake the region of the sky you think your looking at with another region your observing through the binoculars. Its very easy to get lost this way.

    Use your binoculars to scan around the sky, searching for anything you would be interested in observing much closer with a telescope, and even maybe make note of it for a future observation or for when you actually get your telescope.

    A very important thing to note about binoculars is that you should not have a separate view for each eye, the binoculars should be adjusted so that what you see with both eyes is converging into a near single circular frame/ viewpoint.


    1.2 Homework:

    After you get your binoculars it may be more fulfilling for you to now do some homework and familiarise yourself with the night sky, for example learning the position of some constellations etc. and the path they take as the earth rotates.

    There are many software packages available to allow you to more easily learn the night sky. A Brilliant and Free option is of course stellarium which can be found at http://www.stellarium.org/

    1.3 Light, light and even more light:

    As we all know light gives us our ability to see. The more light that gets to our eyes, the more rich, and detailed your view will be. A Telescopes only purpose is to gather as much light as possible, the part of the telescope that accomplishes this is called the optical tube assembly, it is the body of the telescope. The eyepiece is responsible for bringing light to a focus just at your eye and not at the eyepiece itself, so its important that you are close enough and looking directly into the eyepiece when viewing something. We call this eye relief.

    A telescope's ability to gather this light is directly related to the diameter of its objective lens or primary mirror, the total amount of light that can pass through a lens or that is reflected by its mirror is considered its Aperture

    The available Aperture of your telescope will directly reflect the maximum magnification you will be able to use without overpowering. Overpowering a
    telescope is using too much magnification (eyepiece) for the amount of light that the telescope can practically gather. More light is more information and you need a lot of it for detail on celestial objects. Overpowering will result in you being unable to focus an image.

    1.4 Magnification:

    By rule of thumb the theoretical maximum magnification of a telescope is typically twice the aperture in mm, or 60 times per inch of aperture. In practice given that we have to contend with a turbulent and/ or light scattering atmosphere. You can observe this by observing a sunset for example. When the sun is close to the horizon, certain wavelengths of light (eg. green) scatter more in the path because of larger molecules and dust particles in the lower atmosphere. Since the sun is lower in the sky the path of your view of the sun is mostly through the lower atmosphere. In contrast the Sun actually appears white to astronauts in orbit because they do not have to contend with smaller particles like nitrogen scattering blue light. If your interested see Rayleigh Scattering for an in depth explanation

    How turbulent the atmosphere is referred to as seeing conditions. You can always tell good seeing conditions if the stars/ planets are not twinkling or seemingly flashing. Twinkle twinkle little star was more than likely written on a night with poor seeing conditions.

    Magnification is the result of an eyepiece paired with a telescope with a specific Focal length. Focal lengths are always specified on telescopes.

    The resulting magnification of an eyepiece in a telescope is the telescopes focal length divided by the eyepiece in mm

    For this example I will take the Bresser Messier 102mm recently on offer from lidl

    It is a refractor and has an aperture of 102mm so we’re looking at a recommended maximum magnification of 200x. You will likely want to aim for 120-160x with it for best results depending on seeing conditions.

    It has a focal length of 1000mm and comes with 10mm, 15mm and 25mm plossl eyepieces and a 2x Barlow lens, so resulting magnifications are as follows:

    25mm = 40x + barlow = 80x
    15mm = 66x + barlow = 132x
    10mm = 100x + barlow = 200x

    Note: In this case the supplied 2x Barlow will double the resulting magnification


    1.5 Telescopes:

    There are 2 main types of telescope assembly’s available; they are called Refractors and Reflectors. The other type is called Catadioptric

    The most popular brands are Celestron, Meade, (Bresser, is also a Meade company), Zhumell, Bushnell, Orion, Skywatcher. Nothing else is really coming to mind.

    1.5.1 Refractor: These types are what people traditionally know a telescope to be. A refractor is best used for Lunar or planetary observation. Refractors use lenses, because of this they are a lot more expensive per inch of aperture to manufacture. Basically quality big refractors will cost you a lot of money due to the amount of lenses. Refractors are more commonly associated with their high clarity and contrast.

    These tend to have long focal ratios like the telescope I used for the above example, its focal ratio is f/9.8. The focal ratio of a telescope is its focal length divided by its aperture for the Bresser messier 102mm above its; 1000/102 = 9.8

    The focal ratio basically describes how long and wide the telescope is. It could be short and fat which will give it a short focal ratio or long and thin which will give it a long focal ratio, There is also an in-between. Most will refer to the focal ratio as the speed of the telescopes optics. The lower the f/number the faster, the lower the magnification you will want to use, the wider the field of view, and the brighter the image will be, with any given eyepiece or camera.

    Fast focal ratios (below f/6) which are generally best, for low power wide field observing and deep space photography. Slow focal ratios (above f/10) are usually better suited to higher power lunar, planetary, and high power mag photography. For mediums there’s an in-between and work nicely for both. Again the Bresser Messier 102mm above has a medium/slow focal ratio. Most refractors will have medium to slow focal ratios.

    Common Refractors tend to suffer from chromatic aberration or false colours. This is an optical defect that produces a faint coloured 'halo' around bright stars and the planets for example. it becomes more visible as the aperture increases and the focal ratio decreases, although you can get achromatic refractors to reduce this effect and virtually eliminate it by getting an apochromatic refractor

    Illustration of a Refractor.
    yhst-6094580835880_2089_28454614

    1.5.2 Reflectors: These are the larger telescopes and are considerably cheaper per inch of aperture in regards to refractors, because they use mirrors to reflect light inside the tube assembly. If you want the most aperture for your money these are the telescopes to go with, specifically Dobsonians. Dobsonians are regarded as huge buckets on a simple alt-azimuth mount. The smaller reflectors will more often than
    not come on equatorial mounts.

    Reflectors may not produce as clear an image as a refractor but they excel at Deep space observing because of their traditional large apertures.

    Because they use mirrors they are prone to light diffraction (scattering) which reduces image contrast in lunar and planetary observing. Also they can require frequent re-collimation or re-alignment of its optics though.They also suffer from coma, which is an optical defect in which stars appear triangular shaped at the edge of the field, thankfully not in the centre though. The faster the focal ratio is, the smaller the coma free field. So the slower the less coma you will be likely to experience

    One of their biggest drawbacks however is their size, in relation to dobsonians this has been remedied somewhat with Meade’s innovative introduction of what they call the Truss Lightbridge. Basically this is a telescope that can be dismantled for storage or transport and easily reassembled on site. The truss is the only part that needs dismantling, just a few screws here and there, they are not complicated.

    Illustration of a Newtonian Reflector.
    10_Inch_Newtonian_Reflector_Telescopes_With_Parabolic_Mirror.jpg

    A Tradition Dobsonian
    Dobsonian.jpg

    A Meade Truss Lightbridge Dobsonian.
    Dobsonian12_lo.jpg

    1.5.3 Catadioptrics: These combine the best features of both reflectors and refractors. These are essentially large aperture telescopes with long focal lengths. They are free of chromatic aberration and coma. They will be less expensive than a refractor of similar aperture but more expensive than a reflector of the same aperture. They generally are not as bright as either, but if anything these are large portable telescopes and for that for most people who invest in the hobby they can be worth every cent. Although the larger Catadioptrics like the 16” Meade LX200R can weight 115+ kilograms and cost €10,000+. However there are smaller cheaper ones like Meade’s ETX 125 or Celestron’s Nexstar 5SE for around €600/700+ which are the same size (5”). For the same amount you can get a Dobsonian reflector that has more than twice that aperture.

    Illustration of a Catadioptric.
    Catadioptric.jpg

    1.6 Mounts:

    ]There are two basic types of mounts, Alt-azimuth and Equatorial.

    1.6.1 Alt-azimuth: This mount has two axes of rotation, a horizontal axis and a vertical axis. Most will be familiar with this type of mount as it’s the same as a camera’s tripod which can twist left of right and point up or down. This type of mount is not suitable for tracking, hence not suitable for astrophotography.

    1.6.2 Equatorial: This mount also has two axes of rotation but they are called right ]ascension and declination, this is the coordinate system for finding objects in the celestial sphere. This mount allows a telescope to be tilted at the same angle as the Earth's axis of rotation. Because of this an equatorial mount can be used to track objects and can be used for astrophotography. This is the favoured mount of choice among star gazers.

    1.6.3 Go-To Drive; This is a motor driven mount which enables the telescope to give you the unique ability to just select what object you want to view. The mount will line the telescope up so you don’t need prior knowledge of where the object actually is in the sky, it does help to though. They are subject to alignment on each session. This is just a simple alignment process called 1, 2 or 3 star alignment. You just set the scope in the home position (Pointing true North) depending on which alignment option you choose it will automatically attempt to find an alignment star or 2 or 3 which will triangulate its position. you will be required to look through the telescope and centre the star accurately in the field of view for an optimal alignment.

    Alignment stars are basically the brightest in the sky, so knowing exactly what star to centre in on is pretty easy, some of the most famous alignment stars are: Proxycon, Vega, Capella, Sirius, Rigel, Pollux, Acturus, Antares, Mizar, Deneb, Betelguese, Regulus, Alderbaran and Alamak, there are a lot more though but these are the most familiar i would say among astronomers.


    1.7 The celestial co ordinate system:

    When I say celestial I mean the sky, we all know what the equator is, well the celestial equator for example would be that line projected onto the sky from your position looking out from earth relative to the actual equator. I tend to refer to the entire sky from the position looking out from earth as the celestial sphere.

    15x9bc.jpg

    1.7.1 Right Ascension (R.A.): This is measured in hours, minutes, seconds and basically refers to the ascending or rising of an object In the sky. From facing the north celestial pole stars will rise on your right

    1.7.2 Declination (Dec): This is measured in degrees and describes the angular distance of a celestial object north or south of the celestial equator.Its positive if its between the celestial equator and celestial north pole and its negative if its between the celestial equator and the celestial south pole.

    These may sound confusing at first but your telescope has settings circles to reflect this co-ordinate system. If you look at your telescope and look at the axis that the optical tube assembly (OTA) will revolve on, this is the axis that the OTA is balanced on. The counterweight shaft will be attached on this axis, right where the counterweight shaft is connected to the mount you will see the declination setting circle. The other is then naturally the R.A or Right Ascension setting circle

    Illustration I made of Dec. and R.A setting circles.
    lxd75examplesu8.th.jpg
    German Equatorial Mount.

    1.8 What telescope is right for you?:

    This is really for you to decide, from the above information you should best be able to make a decision on what type of telescope you would eventually like to have and make use of. Each telescope type has its strength and weaknesses but the refractors and reflectors have different uses as mentioned above.

    In my case, all telescopes are right for me, they serve different purposes and having portability for some people is important, like for example if you live in a light polluted area like a city or town. It is nice to have to ability to travel and move your equipment with relative ease. I have 3 telescopes, and I have gotten much more use out of my portable than my other refractor and reflector due to ease of transport. I am referring to my Meade ETX (my on the go scope).

    I am more inclined to recommend a bigger reflector to a new comer as a small telescope may leave a beginner wanting and a little unsatisfied. I would therefore recommend an 8” Newtonian reflector or if bulk isn’t a problem you could pick up a 10” dobsonian reflector for maybe the same budget.

    1.9 Observing in the day:

    When you decide on and receive the telescope of your choice it is very important that you familiarise yourself with it in daylight, this will allow you to more efficiently use the telescope at night, and will avoid a lot of frustration. A telescope can also be used during the day to admire/ or observe our closest star; Sol. The proper precautions should be taken before you ever proceed to observe the sun. First buy a safe appropriate solar filter for the size of your telescope. And then take measures to cover your finderscopes lens if you have one.

    Never point your telescope directly at the sun without a solar filter, you can damage the telescopes optics by doing this. Also Never directly observe the sun through any optical instrument that does not have a solar filter fitted, it will do irreversible damage to your eye and for even the shortest of exposure’s it can very easily blind you in whatever eye you choose to expose.

    1.10 Observing at night:

    When observing at night it is important to dress warmly, especially on cold nights. Maybe even invest in some warm thin gloves that would still allow you to handle delicate controls if necessary.

    As the telescope gathers the most amount of light it is also important that your eyes can take in and focus all of that light. To make the best possible use of any light your receiving your eyes must be fully dark adapted. Basically you want your iris to allow the most amount of light through your eye to your retina. While not viewing an direct source of light this will then allow the cones and rods to adapt and be more sensitive to light, it takes about a half an hour for your eyes to become almost fully adapted in the dark. When this occurs you are about 1 million times more sensitive to light than you are in bright daylight so any bright sources of light will not only undo it but it can strain your eyes and hurt sometimes. If you need a source of light for whatever reason its best to use a red light, some automotive stores may carry small ones for your keychain which facilitate finding the keyhole in your car door at night.

    Observing a full moon through a high quality telescope can be quite a strain on your eye, you can get lunar filters for your eyepieces though. Many filters are actually available both lunar and planetary. These allow you to focus on different details.

    1.10.1 Averted vision

    You can make use of your peripheral vision while observing something through an eyepiece, the centre of your eyes is less sensitive to faint light than the periphery of the eye's retina. Making use of this is referred to as averted vision. Where you can avert your vision and look out the corner of your eye at what you want to observe on the eyepiece. This will allow you to observe fainter objects that the untrained eye wouldn’t so easily pick up.

    1.11 Planetary Observation:

    The best bit of advice i can give you if you want to observe planets with the best details possible with your equipment, is keep track of alignment or near alignment times. Different planets have different orbits around the sun, and go around at different rates, for example a mars year is equivalent to about 687 earth days. so it takes 687 days for mars to complete one full orbit of the sun. An amazing time in recent years to view mars through a telescope was august 2003 when it made its closest approach in about 60,000 years. it came within about 56 million km of earth. Currently at the time of this post mars is probably over 90 million km away from earth due to its orbit, it is just about tailing us now. we are still on the same side of the sun but we are rapidly moving away from mars.

    Here is a link that contains an animation that best explains mars and earth alignment: http://www.windows.ucar.edu/tour/link=/mars/mars_orbit.html

    I will update this thread as i think of any more usefull information

    Update 25/07/08: Fixed Formatting
    Update 15/06/11: Fixed Image Links


«13

Comments

  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 1,425 Mod ✭✭✭✭slade_x


    Reserved.....®


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 1,425 Mod ✭✭✭✭slade_x


    Reserved.....®


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1 jackmood


    hello
    Here you provide amazing information about telescope . I read all detail. It is very interesting.I know about it thought this forum.
    Thanks


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6 julikerry


    What a great guy you are spending all that time putting such good advice online....where did you get all the knowledge from?
    I just uploaded my own website a couple of weeks ago at
    www.the-universe.ie
    Is it ok to mention you and the great advice you givesmile.gif
    Have you a facebook page?
    I'm struggling with trying to figure out how to get my site onto facebook, any suggestions on that...sure could use a few pointers.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,015 ✭✭✭rccaulfield


    Very informative sticky thanks! Maybe a list of shops/reputable sites selling scopes could go in post 2/3?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,351 ✭✭✭djhaxman


    Good write up by slade_x, but if you want more information I bought this book and found it very informative, it goes into detail not just about scopes, but lenses, tripods, filters, and digital cameras too. There's a list of all the Messier and NGC objects as well as planetary information. Star charts are included at the back of the book. It's written well, easy to understand and can be got from amazon or any of the major online bookstores.

    http://www.backyardastronomy.com/Backyard_Astronomy/Backyard_Astronomers_Guide.html


  • Registered Users Posts: 3 black spot


    Hi I'm planning on buying my first telescope & have it down to a choice of two dobsonians. The Orion xlt 8" & the Skyliner 200p flextube synscan. I would like to do some astrophotography as well as viewing by eye. So if you could give me your thoughts I would be very grateful.


  • Registered Users Posts: 23 the quick fix


    Hey guys,
    I have had a telescope for a good while now and gave up on learning how to use right ascension and declination and have been getting by by using constellations and star hoping but I really want to get to learn how to use it. I have a celestron astromaster 90 eq.

    I set up the telescope, balance it and polar align it. I set my latitude to 53 degrees but it doesn't point at polaris. It points a good bit below it. the only way i can get polaris in my scope is by increasing the latitude but then that affects the ra and declination values I use to find different objects. How exactly do I get around this? Thanks


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4 timarnold


    Fantastic post. Lots of useful Info. Well done.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,500 ✭✭✭tac foley


    This is a truly useful post. I've recommended it over the years since it was written to a few astronomy noobs over here in UK as a must-read in a fashion that makes it easily understandable - something that is very important in such a technical subject as astronomy.

    tac in UK


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,882 ✭✭✭Saipanne


    This is a great post, and one I will be using when making my first purchase.

    I just need help regarding a budget. I'm a working professional, so I have a bit of money to spend. But this is my first venture, so I'd rather not drop 500 Euro and find its not for me.

    What's a good start-up fund for me?

    Thanks


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,748 ✭✭✭Bluefoam


    Thanks, really informative post!

    I'm hoping someone here can offer me some help & I'm sure you get hundreds of these posts, but I'd like recommendations for a Telescope...

    My dad would love a good telescope... he lives in Wicklow in a relatively rural area, so not too much ambient light. He loves using the basic telescope he has, but its donkeys years old and next to useless. It'd be also good if the viewfinder was easy to read, as the auld eyesight isn't what it used to be. However, he is becoming more informed. I'm looking for recommendations. Our agreed Christmas present budget is 150e, but I'd be willing to higher to get the right thing...

    Advice please :) Remember I'm a complete novice...

    What are peoples thoughts on these... The first looks a bit intimidating and the second looks more traditional, but which would be better for him (if either)? I'd go for the first, but it I'm note sure how easy it'll be for him to use:

    http://www.ktectelescopes.ie/Christmas-Gift-Ideas/Christmas-Gift-Ideas-Telescopes-Under-200/Skywatcher-Skyhawk-1145P-Parabolic-Newtonian-Telescope.html

    http://www.ktectelescopes.ie/Christmas-Gift-Ideas/Christmas-Gift-Ideas-Telescopes-Under-200/Christmas-Bundle-Telescope-Book-RedTorch.html


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 228 ✭✭murphyme2010


    You could consider this if you can stretch your budget.

    How heavy a scope can you Father lift and setup?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,748 ✭✭✭Bluefoam


    You could consider this if you can stretch your budget.

    How heavy a scope can you Father lift and setup?

    Hey, thanks for the suggestion. He'd be well able to manage something heavy. It may stay set up and be moved occasionally anyway.

    I don't mind spending... but because its a family Chris Kindle, I can't overspend by too much as we have an agreed budget...

    What do you make of the Skywatcher? seems to get some good reviews.

    http://www.ktectelescopes.ie/Christmas-Gift-Ideas/Christmas-Gift-Ideas-Telescopes-Under-200/Skywatcher-Skyhawk-1145P-Parabolic-Newtonian-Telescope.html


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,161 ✭✭✭dinneenp


    Hi,
    Thanks for the post, a great intro.
    My daughter is 8.5 years old and would like a telescope to see the planets/night sky. I don't know if it's something she'll continue to like so I'd prefer to keep budget under €100.
    1. Can I get anything decent within this budget?
    2. If so can anyone recommend a telescope or if binoculars are better then recommend binoculars please?
    3. If €100 is too low can you recommend something above this budget but keeping as close to €100 as possible please?
    Smyths have this but I'm presuming that a. binoculars would be better than that (I saw the Aldi thread) b. someone can recommend something better than that for under €100 hopefully.
    Thanks in advance,
    Pa.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,005 ✭✭✭Pat Dunne


    Have a chat with your local camera shop and see what they can do for a set up like this

    It should be achievable on your budget.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,161 ✭✭✭dinneenp


    Pat Dunne wrote: »
    Have a chat with your local camera shop and see what they can do for a set up like this

    It should be achievable on your budget.

    Thanks, I already have a tripod, will get onto camera shop so.
    One last question- that telescope in Smyths- avoid I presume?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,948 ✭✭✭gizmo555


    dinneenp wrote: »
    Hi,
    Thanks for the post, a great intro.
    My daughter is 8.5 years old and would like a telescope to see the planets/night sky.

    Bear in mind that you can see a lot with the naked eye too!

    You could supplement the binoculars with a book or two, for example either of these by HA Rey, the author of Curious George:

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Stars-New-Way-See-Them/dp/0547132808/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1448461417&sr=1-1&keywords=ha+rey

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Find-Constellations-H-A-Rey/dp/054713178X/ref=pd_sim_14_1?ie=UTF8&dpID=21udrp4n3ML&dpSrc=sims&preST=_AC_UL160_SR137%2C160_&refRID=1TG4SRR2CMJEF522C5Q6


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,005 ✭✭✭Pat Dunne


    dinneenp wrote: »
    Thanks, I already have a tripod, will get onto camera shop so.
    One last question- that telescope in Smyths- avoid I presume?
    Avoid completely.

    Don't forget a tripod adapter, like this one in the link below :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,476 ✭✭✭Ryath


    Leaving this a bit last minute but I need to order a telescope for my 8 year old daughter for Christmas. Should have ordered weeks ago but just couldn't make a decision. Think I've narrowed it to these three.


    http://www.ktectelescopes.ie/Starter-Telescopes/Starter-Telescopes-under-250/Skywatcher-Heritage-130P-FlexTube-Dobsonian-Telescope.html

    http://www.ktectelescopes.ie/Starter-Telescopes/Starter-Telescopes-under-250/Skywatcher-Explorer-130P.html

    http://www.ktectelescopes.ie/Starter-Telescopes/Starter-Telescopes-250-to-500/Skywatcher-Heritage-114P-Virtuoso-Dobsonian-Telescope.html

    I'm leaning to the heritage 130 it's nice and compact to store and move about. The others are tempting though the explorer 130 for the equatorial mount or the virtuoso for the motorised drive but at the cost of reduced aperture. Wife wants something easy to store and as I'm not always home at night she will need to carry it out.

    I'm not a complete beginner was really interested as an early teen and had a tasco reflector that I realise now was a piece of tat. Would like to get back into it and my daughter is like me at that age and wants to learn about everything.

    Was originally just going to get the heritage 100p thinking maybe better not to blow the budget and if me and my daughter really get into I'll up the budget and get something bigger. The flextube 130 is probably worth the extra €70 over it though and would still make a good 2nd/travel scope if I do upgrade.

    http://www.ktectelescopes.ie/Starter-Telescopes/Starter-Telescopes-under-250/Skywatcher-Heritage-100P-Dobsonian-Telescope.html


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 228 ✭✭murphyme2010


    I've be inclined to for the heritage 130p. It will be easy to store and quick to set up.
    At that aperture It will mostly be the Moon and Planets and possibly the brighter Messier objects.
    I've looked through one of these scopes and it offered great views of the Moon.

    The increase in aperture from 114 to 130 will outweigh the lack of tracking.

    The equatorial mount will just get in the way for an 8yo.

    If you do get the scope be sure to contact your local astronomy group so you can get tips on what to see
    with the scope.

    My 0.02c


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,362 ✭✭✭rolion


    @ Ryath,

    Good choices but more than likely that whatever you buy, it will stay with you forever or until you feel sick.
    I have a 8" and I want to upgrade to a Dobs or a 11".Been told initially that is easy to buy small, then upgrade later. Not a chance, stuck with this beauty scope until I divorce or win Lotto !

    Buy the best of the stretched budget you have available and add 50% to make you happy !

    Enjoy the cold cloudy nights !


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,476 ✭✭✭Ryath


    Thanks for the advice guys. Have ordered the flextube 130 and a copy of Turn left at the Orion. Hope Santa gets it here on time!


  • Company Representative Posts: 40 Verified rep Ktec: Stephen


    Ryath wrote: »
    Thanks for the advice guys. Have ordered the flextube 130 and a copy of Turn left at the Orion. Hope Santa gets it here on time!

    Im sure Santa will be well able for that :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,161 ✭✭✭dinneenp


    dinneenp wrote: »
    Hi,
    Thanks for the post, a great intro.
    My daughter is 8.5 years old and would like a telescope to see the planets/night sky. I don't know if it's something she'll continue to like so I'd prefer to keep budget under €100.
    1. Can I get anything decent within this budget?
    2. If so can anyone recommend a telescope or if binoculars are better then recommend binoculars please?
    3. If €100 is too low can you recommend something above this budget but keeping as close to €100 as possible please?
    Smyths have this but I'm presuming that a. binoculars would be better than that (I saw the Aldi thread) b. someone can recommend something better than that for under €100 hopefully.
    Thanks in advance,
    Pa.

    Hi,
    Ok, it's final decision time for me. I had bought the Smyths telescope, then returned it planning to buy binoculars. After talking to my daughter I realised she really wants a telescope and not binoculars, must be the appearance of a telescope.
    So, ideally keeping it under €100 but can go a bit over if it'll give me something much better what can anyone recommend please? Some options are:
    I know nothing about astronomy, it's all over my head (ha-ha) so will go with whatever is recommended. Would like to order in the next few days.
    Thanks in advance,
    Pa.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,476 ✭✭✭Ryath


    Im sure Santa will be well able for that :)

    Thanks just got notification he's handed over it over to the couriers!
    dinneenp wrote: »
    Hi,
    Ok, it's final decision time for me. I had bought the Smyths telescope, then returned it planning to buy binoculars. After talking to my daughter I realised she really wants a telescope and not binoculars, must be the appearance of a telescope.
    So, ideally keeping it under €100 but can go a bit over if it'll give me something much better what can anyone recommend please? Some options are:


    I know nothing about astronomy, it's all over my head (ha-ha) so will go with whatever is recommended. Would like to order in the next few days.
    Thanks in advance,
    Pa.

    On your list I'd only consider the Celestron firstscope which is essentially the same scope as this skywatcher for €70
    http://www.ktectelescopes.ie/Starter-Telescopes/Starter-Telescopes-under-250/Skywatcher-Heritage-76-Mini-Dobsonian-Telescope.html

    If you can stretch to it at all I'd go with this for €140
    http://www.ktectelescopes.ie/Starter-Telescopes/Starter-Telescopes-under-250/Skywatcher-Heritage-100P-Dobsonian-Telescope.html

    I did a lot of research and it really came out as the best entry level option and I still upped budget though I will use it myself so can justify the bit extra.

    KTEC offer a pickup option in swords if you think you've left it to late for delivery.


  • Registered Users Posts: 88 ✭✭vtiniall


    HI All,

    Im looking to buy a telescope next week and need advise on the two options below. Which would be the better of the two.


    Skywatcher Explorer 130P f / 650 Newton Telescope with Parabolic Mirror 5.1 Inches Silver

    Celestron 31051 Astromaster 130EQ-MD Motor Drive Reflector Telescope

    Thanks

    Niall


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,005 ✭✭✭Pat Dunne


    vtiniall wrote: »
    HI All,

    Im looking to buy a telescope next week and need advise on the two options below. Which would be the better of the two.


    Skywatcher Explorer 130P f / 650 Newton Telescope with Parabolic Mirror 5.1 Inches Silver

    Celestron 31051 Astromaster 130EQ-MD Motor Drive Reflector Telescope

    Thanks

    Niall
    You have chosen two very equally matched telescopes. There is almost nothing to seperate either scope in the optics department, both are decent performers and extremely good for their price range.

    My personal preference would for the Celestron MD, which is a powered Go-To scope. As someone who has used a powered scope for years its the only way to go. The purists my sneer, however with the vagaries of the Irish weather the Go-To gets you up and running much quicker.


  • Registered Users Posts: 88 ✭✭vtiniall


    Thanks for the advise. Much Appreciated.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 573 ✭✭✭space2ground1


    Hi all, Santa's looking at this for my little girl who wants a telescope. The reason I'm considering a telescope over binoculars is that she'd like to use my phone to take photos of what she sees. I guess I'll need an adaptor of some sort for that.

    Sky-Watcher Heritage 76 Mini Dobsonian Telescope

    Would there be a standard iphone adapter I can get for this one?

    Thanks a lot!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,005 ✭✭✭Pat Dunne




  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 1,425 Mod ✭✭✭✭slade_x


    If you didn't want to make one you could always purchase a universal phone adapter like:

    This or this for example

    Links to ebay


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,005 ✭✭✭Pat Dunne


    slade_x wrote: »
    If you didn't want to make one you could always purchase a universal phone adapter like:

    This or this for example

    Links to ebay

    Err.... yes just like the first link I posted. :confused:


  • Registered Users Posts: 48 1983ish


    Hi all
    I’ve read the sticky but I’m still a bit clueless as to which telescope to go for as a beginner.
    On a budget of 200 what would you go for if you were starting all over again?

    Thanks in advance


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,005 ✭✭✭Pat Dunne


    I always suggest to absolute beginners is to buy a decent set of Binoculars with a Tripod attachment and Triopod.
    My reasons for this is.
    1. Beginners scopes are nothing more than glorified toys and nothing more!
    2. A decent set of Bins for around €150 with have far superior optical qualities over one of the "toy scopes".
    3. Its a very quick set up and very portable.
    4. If you find you enjoy it, you can then take plunge into the minefield of serious money amateur astronomy.

    Whatever you do just enjoy it.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 15 gem16


    Hi all, just jumping in here, as the topic has turned back to binoculars. My Dad would like a good pair of bins (max budget:200) for looking at the night sky. (amateur astronomy!). Preferably not too heavy, but we are realising that many are quite weighty. I’ve seen some people on here say that 10x50s should be fine. He had already picked up a pair in O’Learys camera world in Cork City but ended up returning them as they seemed to have been only for nature/bird watching. Could not see anything clearly at night with them. Any recommendations please?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,551 ✭✭✭Rubecula


    Binoculars when used for stargazing really need a tripod support or at the very least a monopod. I should think seriously hard before going to any larger sized binos without the purchase of a support.

    10 x 50 should be ideal really, what was your dad trying to see?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,005 ✭✭✭Pat Dunne


    gem16 wrote: »
    Hi all, just jumping in here, as the topic has turned back to binoculars. My Dad would like a good pair of bins (max budget:200) for looking at the night sky. (amateur astronomy!). Preferably not too heavy, but we are realising that many are quite weighty. I’ve seen some people on here say that 10x50s should be fine. He had already picked up a pair in O’Learys camera world in Cork City but ended up returning them as they seemed to have been only for nature/bird watching. Could not see anything clearly at night with them. Any recommendations please?

    When purchasing a set of Bins for Astronomy. Buy a Tripod and a Tripod attachment, this will make for a much more enjoyable and practical way to look at the night sky.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15 gem16


    Thanks Pat and Rubecula and sorry for the delay in getting back to ye.
    I appreciate what you are saying re the tripod etc but I don't see my Dad spending very long outside at night. (Well who knows..he may become addicted!) - but certainly at the moment, he would be cautious enough with minding his health etc so probably would not stay put for too long.
    Rubecula, it does sound as if 10x50s would be plenty. As he would be a complete amateur, he would be happy enough just checking out the moon/any larger planets etc...I'm not knowledgeable at all myself here.

    Any particular brands worth recommending..like Nikon etc?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,551 ✭✭✭Rubecula


    I have a pair of Minolta 10 x 50 not the best but good quality, no need to go for the very expensive types as we do not know how serious he is yet, Shop around and look for good pairs with coated lens etc etc you could make a monopod easy enough to support the binos. and if he wants to use a chair you can make a shorter rest to rest on his thigh maybe a tray to hold a notepad or hot drink?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 15 gem16


    Thanks again Rubecula. Good suggestions. I'm not sure if (Konica) Minolta binos are still available? I read online that the company dropped the camera side of their business (and it looks like binoulars went with them).
    Any other suggestions? One final question also - is it typical for decent binoculars to be quite weighty?

    Thanks!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,551 ✭✭✭Rubecula


    Lightweight binos are usually too small to be honest 10 x 50 s magnification (10) times size of lens (50mm) yes you can get higher mags in small binos but to hold them steady enough to use is not easy.

    I said I had minolta purely as an example, anything of similar style will do really but try to get a support for them, honestly I can not emphasise this enough.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,795 ✭✭✭Bawnmore


    Would something like the following be OK, or would you need to move up in price to get something decent and usable?

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Binocular-Watching-Sightseeing-Traveling-Binoculars/dp/B01H1MFMDO/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1547825762&sr=8-5&keywords=10x50+binoculars


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,551 ✭✭✭Rubecula


    Bawnmore wrote: »
    Would something like the following be OK, or would you need to move up in price to get something decent and usable?

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Binocular-Watching-Sightseeing-Traveling-Binoculars/dp/B01H1MFMDO/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1547825762&sr=8-5&keywords=10x50+binoculars

    look ok to start out with but remember to get a stand to hold them steady, good way to start though, well found.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 1,425 Mod ✭✭✭✭slade_x


    Bawnmore wrote: »
    Would something like the following be OK, or would you need to move up in price to get something decent and usable?

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Binocular-Watching-Sightseeing-Traveling-Binoculars/dp/B01H1MFMDO/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1547825762&sr=8-5&keywords=10x50+binoculars

    The price honestly doesn't tell you much, I purchased a bresser bak-4 pair from lidl a long time ago for around €20-25 if I remember correctly which is a stellar price.

    I don't see what type of glass prisms it uses. the normal for around that price would be BK7

    These are the cheapest for £12.95 I see on amazon but they weirdly state Bak-7 instead of BK-7, at that price point I cant imagine its a typo for Bak-4. They also state they are tripod compatible though:
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Binoculars-High-Powered-Surveillance-Binocular-travelling/dp/B07CNY3MFF/ref=sr_1_22_sspa?ie=UTF8&qid=1547875946&sr=8-22-spons&keywords=10x50+binoculars&psc=1

    Moving up to a brand however I see the Celestron UpClose G2 for £35
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Celestron-71257-UpClose-Porro-Binocular/dp/B006ZN4TZS/ref=sr_1_18?ie=UTF8&qid=1547875946&sr=8-18&keywords=10x50+binoculars
    but these don't seem to be well received by the reviews 1 star to 3 star

    They are also likely overpriced as they are £26 on binoculars-uk
    http://www.binoculars-uk.co.uk/acatalog/Celestron_Upclose_G2.html


    The good thing about amazon is you can check the lowest rated reviews, which I would recommend, I always look through the 1 to 3 star reviews myself but having that said the original ones you linked seem to be received very well.

    This is what my Bresser pair look like but are unavailable and likely discontinued
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/d/Binocular-Accessories/Bresser-10x50-Hunter-Porro-Binoculars/B00B5AOH9Y


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,795 ✭✭✭Bawnmore


    Good advice on the reviews - went with the ones I posted after reading all good and bad reviews. Thanks!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,283 ✭✭✭Deedsie


    Celestron 21045 PowerSeeker 114EQ Reflector Telescope https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0000Y8C2Y/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_D5O3DbWRYGAZ1

    Is that telescope good value? I am buying a telescope as a Christmas gift for my family. Have a small budget. Roughly €120. Hoping to get something with a black Friday discount


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,067 ✭✭✭✭fryup


    Surely this is a steal?? esp for a Celestron

    https://www.ebay.ie/itm/Celestron-60LCM-60mm-Computerized-GoTo-Refractor-Telescope/373053360144?hash=item56dbb68810:g:myMAAOSwzFlevnNh

    the telescope itself is a tad low spec with a 60mm aperture ..but with a goto mount seems like good deal,


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,005 ✭✭✭Pat Dunne


    fryup wrote: »
    Surely this is a steal?? esp for a Celestron

    https://www.ebay.ie/itm/Celestron-60LCM-60mm-Computerized-GoTo-Refractor-Telescope/373053360144?hash=item56dbb68810:g:myMAAOSwzFlevnNh

    the telescope itself is a tad low spec with a 60mm aperture ..but with a goto mount seems like good deal,
    We had a post about a similar scope only a couple of days ago

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2058078429


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