Citroën - How Bad?

crosstownk

I've driven an Opel Zafira (1.6) for the last 18 months.

This week I've been driving a Citroën C4 Picasso (1.8). I have to say, it's light years ahead of the Opel - fcuking light years. Now I know there is a certain stigma attached to Citroëns - reliability, residual and the like. But after driving the thing, I'm actually impressed with it :eek:

So if there's anybody here who has/had a Citroën, let me know what you think/though of it. I'd be interested to hear what owners think of the marque that brought us the Chicken Coup (2CV)

delly

Had a Xsara van for a couple of years which is the same as the car but without the seats etc. Have to say I was very happy with it, put a good few miles on the clock without any bother.

crosstownk

delly wrote: »

.......Xsara van for a couple of years ........... put a good few miles on the clock without any bother.

Was it a HDi? I've heard some good reports about that engine.

delly

'twas the base model, 01 D, AFAIR it had the lesser engine than the HDi.

snowmanone

crosstownk wrote: »

I've driven an Opel Zafira (1.6) for the last 18 months.

This week I've been driving a Citroën C4 Picasso (1.8). I have to say, it's light years ahead of the Opel - fcuking light years. Now I know there is a certain stigma attached to Citroëns - reliability, residual and the like. But after driving the thing, I'm actually impressed with it :eek:

So if there's anybody here who has/had a Citroën, let me know what you think/though of it. I'd be interested to hear what owners think of the marque that brought us the Chicken Coup (2CV)

Iv a white berlingo van 2.0 ltr hdi with super tiny wheels and it out performs a lot of big fancy cars, handling and power wise all the time.. great yolk

skyhighflyer

Had a Citroen Saxo that never gave any trouble over 80000 hard driven miles in my hands. It's still in the family. Citroen make great diesels too and always have; if you get a C4 make sure it's a HDi (and your pocket will thank you under the new tax system). Probably better to hold off till July to get one though.

EDIT: not entirely true about the Saxo, this week the rear brakes disintegrated. That's probably because they hadn't been looked since the car was bought though.

Oilrig

There have been Citroens in my extended family for 11 years now and none have given a minutes bother.

jonnygee

Citreon-how bad ,very bad.

ambro25

I've had tons of them and driven yet more of them - only because I've been driving years, note.

C15 (mini van)
C25 (Transit-sized van)
C35 (aircraft carrier -sized van, with no PS and Pug 504 internals)
CX 25 GTi Turbo
BX 19 TRD TurboD
BX 19 TZD TurboD
BX 19 D enterprise (same as the Xsara in earlier post, imagine a big BX hatch with 'fake back doors' and just the front seats)
AX 14 TZS (3 doors, same as GT but in 'bourgeois' attire)
XM HDi

My Dad's had even more (CXs, BXs, XMs)and currently drives a C5 HDi (on his second, put 223,000 miles on the last C5 and only changed because it's a company car). My Mum drives a C3 Pluriel (the "convert" one).

Nothing but good things to say, throughout the family

unkel

Reliability is a very relative measure these days. A recent survey showed that the least reliable car of all (an Alfa GTV) would typically have one fault per year

Tbh I couldn't really call that unreliable in absolute terms, although I'm the first to grant that the average Toyota Corolla will typically only have one fault per 25 million years :rolleyes:

From personal experience of recent Citroens, I was very disappointed with the Xsara (diesel) but I was impressed with the ride on terrible country roads in a C5

It says a lot that Rolls-Royce paid Citroen money for the use of its hydropneumatic suspension system

Oilrig

Unkel,

You were disappointed with the Xsara (diesel)

Did it have reliability problems or was it that you just didn't like it?

PS not a Citroen driver, lover etc, but in relation to the original post you should clarify.

colm_mcm

I don't think Citroen are any worse than Renault or Peugeot, they have more of a stigma attached to them than these two, probably as people get scared by hydropnuematic suspension or similarly scary prospects.

pred racer

Ive had a couple of xantias, never had any problems. In fact Im thinking of buying another one (got a 406 at the moment) and imo I'll take a citroen over an opel any day.(had a couple of them too!)

halkar

Have been driven Citroen's last 8 years, Xsara 2.0HDI and now C4 1.6 HDI. Never have been to garage other than routine services.

Stephen

I've never driven a Citroen but I think the C6 is a fantastic looking car

L1011

Had no end of problems in my current job with our C4 van conversions, they've all been replaced before their original intended write-off time due to repeat failures; but I had a new-type Berlingo in a previous job that was indesctructable and fairly decent to drive; I'm presuming the car version of its much the same.

Sandwich

Citroen - how bad ?

Not bad at all.

No, they arent in the top division for reliability or customer satisfaction, but dont let that mislead you. Nor listen to folk who think that except for about 5 makes, all other cars spend most of the time being repaired or are bad cars even if they are working.

The standard of car design and construction is so much better than 20+ years ago and any will most likely serve its purpose admirably. But established reputations and prejudices are very slow to change (particularly by those who have an obsessive need to justify the superiority of their own motor over others).

Several excellent features of a BX I had were superior to the ones on my modern 'superior' design and make. Father's XM was an fantastic car in many ways. Check out pictures of the new C5 - the look might well do for Citroen what the 156 did for Alfa (although Alfa bungled their golden opportunity to break out of the bad reputation rut with build quality)

unkel

Oilrig wrote: »

Unkel,

You were disappointed with the Xsara (diesel)

Did it have reliability problems or was it that you just didn't like it?

We had a brand new Xsara and a Corolla for two weeks as rental cars - about 5 years ago

The Corolla was horribly bland to drive, but to be honest the Xsara wasn't miles ahead. A car unworthy to have the Citroen badge imho. Unlike the BX, Xantia, C5 etc. of recent times

Dilbert75

Xsara Picasso for last 3 years. Love it, would buy another (would particularly buy a C4 Picasso) but it would be diesel next time. No reliability problems, cheap to maintain, comfortable to drive, versatile. What more do you want?

Dan_B

Friend had a C5, was on first name terms with every recovery truck driver in Dublin. Wouldnt buy one with your money!

Sandwich

Dan_B wrote: »

Friend had a C5, was on first name terms with every recovery truck driver in Dublin. Wouldnt buy one with your money!

Typical example of how these prejudices are propagated and exagerated.

Of course he wasnt really on first name terms with every recovery truck driver in Dublin. But dont let the truth get in the way of a good line.

ninty9er

The parents had a Xsara the facelift 1.4. It was a very solid car on the road for the size...It's put the Golf to shame that way.

There were a few electics issues
1. The radio wouldn't switch off...sorted for free by a guy that works in Halfords next to where my mam works
2. The airbag relay came loose and local Citroen dealer charged €220 to reconnect it
3. The right indicator relay failed meaning that it was on constant....another main dealer job.

Then again, my uncle had the indicator and airbag troubles with his Passat.

No more unreliable than a Skoda really.

Dan_B

Typical example of how these prejudices are propagated and exagerated.

Of course he wasnt really on first name terms with every recovery truck driver in Dublin. But dont let the truth get in the way of a good line

Don't take it personally
For those who can't read between the lines.
MY MATE HAD A C5 AND IT BROKE DOWN A LOT.

Sandwich

Nothing personal at all.:)

But advising avoiding a brand on your representative sample of 1 car breaking down on several ocasions?

Too much is made of car brand reliability. The variations, (while they do exist), are so small that they have minimal consequences on the car's usefulness to you. If it were so important then the whole world would buy Toyotas and all its competitors would go out of business (even Toyata - was it last year or the previous year they had to recall over a million new cars?).

Dan_B

Reputations for unreliability are not a result of prejudical posts here or anywhere else, more to do with years of producing unreliable cars.
Don't take my word for it, exert from JD power survey.

Which cars are fighting a losing battle against reliability? You guessed it: they're French. Eight out of the ten least reliable cars come from across the Channel, with the Peugeot 807 propping up the table.

The dismal people-ferrier is joined by two further Peugeots (the 307 and 407), a pair of Citroens (C3 and C8) and a trio of Renaults (the Megane, Espace and Scenic), with only the Range Rover and Ford S-MAX preventing a Gallic whitewash of the bottom ten.

In fact, the highest place Peugeot can manage is a miserable 134th for the now-defunct 206, while the highest-placing French car is the Renault Modus in, erm, 88th spot. As unreliable as une voiture Française? Malheureusement, oui.

Sandwich

Dan_B wrote: »

Reputations for unreliability are not a result of prejudical posts here or anywhere else, more to do with years of producing unreliable cars.
Don't take my word for it, exert from JD power survey.

I do think decades of marketing skill and branding have has much to do with it, if not more, than the reals facts. Just look at the reputation of VW in Ireland - still living off a (merited versus its competion at the time) reputation for build quality of 20 or 30 years ago. Lots of folk buying Passats these days think they are getting a machine that is better quality than an Avensis or an Octavia - but in fact it is inferior. But not by so much that it will cut across their use of it - its still a very good car.

Just out of interest, this survey has citroen in the top ten (and Merc and Audi in the worst 10!). JD power is a satisfaction index rather than an objective relaibililty statistic.
http://www.reliabilityindex.co.uk/top10.html?apc=3128339010848601

Concerns about reliability and build quality are really just a legacy concern from the days when cars really were buggers to keep going and to depend on.
The Japanese shook up the motoring world 30 years ago and the rest of the world has had to up their game - and generally have done so. Its just not the issue it used to be - and people place far too much emphasis on this aspect. Buy the car that has the space, performance, facilities, look and feel, and price that suits you.

Sandwich

Or another one:

http://www.carpages.co.uk/go.asp?session=8@9@161936@18420220@4608

Maybe its just damned lies and statistics.
Citroen Xsara rnaks higer than a Golf, A3, Mondeo, 3-series for example.

Not trying to blow the trumpet for Citoen in particular btw. Just think there are to many accepted truisms in motoring that have little or no foundation.

professore

Have had a 1.4 ZX for 2 years, other than replacing a lightbulb, no issues.

Have also currently got a 97 1.9 diesel Xantia for 4 years now ...currently on 147 K miles, 50 K of those done by us, only problems have been a burnt out starter motor, suspension spheres needed regassing and plastic clip on clutch broke. Otherwise normal servicing. Great comfortable and reliable car.

junkyard

I bought a Dispatch 2.0 HDi van new in 2004 and it was one of the best yokes I ever had, as some others said, it was faster than lots of so called performance cars, handled really well and was great on Diesel too. It never gave me a days trouble either.

bazz26

Have no experience of owning a Citroen as none of their range really appealed to me but they have given the motor industry alot of good things over the decades. The DS stands at the front of the list for me. Hydraulic suspension and adaptive front headlights, etc.

Yes they may have lost their way a little since the 1980s they do seem to be making bit of a comeback now, the C4 Piscaso and forthcoming new C5 are supposed to be good cars. And they always made good diesel engines, my current Focus has a HDi unit and I cannot fault it.

BrookieD

i have a 2003 2.0l C5 in perfect nick, great car very solid, never had trouble in 2 years and sailed the NCT last april.
Looking to sell it only due to not needing a big car now. Would love a fiesta, polo etc 2003

Great car and would by again. in fact would get a C2 to replace it

niceirishfella

Ok , here's my experience, I had 1 citreon - it was an AX and i loved it. A true pleasure to have. Never ever let me down.

It was a long time ago but i rememeber it fondly. I would not hesitate to but a citroen again and I agree with another poster - the C6 looks fantastic - the rear curved window is kewwwwlllllll.....!

bazz26

junkyard wrote: »

I bought a Dispatch 2.0 HDi van new in 2004 and it was one of the best yokes I ever had, as some others said, it was faster than lots of so called performance cars, handled really well and was great on Diesel too. It never gave me a days trouble either.

Junkyard praising a French car! OMG :eek:

crosstownk

bazz26 wrote: »

Junkyard praising a French car! OMG :eek:

Yeah - I'll have to have swift one to calm me down!!

Nice to hear so many positive responses - I wasn't expecting that. I've a feeling that Citroën are on the way back with the new model range. A new C5 due in March - let's wait and see.....

junkyard

bazz26 wrote: »

Junkyard praising a French car! OMG :eek:

A French van actually;). Don't tell anyone but I'd actually buy a C6 diesel (when they come down in price to about 10% of what they're asking for them now):).

unkel

junkyard wrote: »

I'd actually buy a C6 diesel (when they come down in price to about 10% of what they're asking for them now):).

That usually takes about 4 years

I remember a '78 standard 604 (6 pot) having depreciated about 90% by '82

prospect

New Picasso is seemingly a very good MPV, and the PSA Diesel engines are brilliant.

Residuals are quite poor, but I reckon the new Picasso and C5 will show a serious improvement.

Regarding reliability, surveys don;t carry much weight with me but, if you think they matter Citroen are the 10th most reliable manufacturer, ranking higher than all the Germans (except Mini, which is really a car rather than a manufacturer)!
Sourdce: http://www.reliabilityindex.co.uk/top10.html?apc=3128339010848601

alias no.9

Sandwich wrote: »

Concerns about reliability and build quality are really just a legacy concern from the days when cars really were buggers to keep going and to depend on.
The Japanese shook up the motoring world 30 years ago and the rest of the world has had to up their game - and generally have done so. Its just not the issue it used to be - and people place far too much emphasis on this aspect.

Amen to that. Most people here remember a time when you went out and turned the key in the ignition on a cold morning, like this morning, you crossed your fingers and hoped the damn thing would start. It wasn't so much the japanese but the advent of electronic fuel injection that has overcome this problem. The ability to optimise the fuel / air mix for the environmental conditions has made every car start first time, every time. When was the last time anybody needed a second turn of the key to get their motor running?
What is reliability now? It's generally sensors failing, most other things are wear and tear consumables that should be changed during regular servicing but we all like to skimp on that. These sensors are the necessary evil that allow the engine fire up on the first crank every time, they're also the reason we get much better fuel efficiency even though the weight of cars has increased massively over the last 20 years. Still though, sensor failure is a rare occurance but can happen any brand because they all source them from the same small group of suppliers. The difference between the top performing brands for reliability and those at the bottom is really miniscule, especially considering how far apart they were about 20 years ago.

pburns

A friend of mine who's a bit of a 'VW-a-holic' inherited an old ZX estate a while ago. Prior to this he would break out in a rash at anything non-German - perceived quality, the usual cock-eyed opinion that they were 'good heavycars' etc.

Anyway, he was kinda bowled over by the little ZX, especially the ride comfort. Thing hasn't given any major trouble and he's developed a real soft spot for it, leaving the VW for the wife to drive.

Personally, I think the biggest problem with French cars are the flaky electrics. Renault in particular threw all sorts of crap onto their cars a few years ago for 'showroom appeal' and it backfired spectacularly because stuff like 'keyless entry' etc. was rushed to market & underdeveloped.

That's why the simpler French yokes with no gee-gaws like vans (the Berlingo for example) have brilliant reptations.

'Tis a pity their reputation is quite poor - I think the C4/C4 Picasso and C6 are luverly, characterful motors and the new Laguna interior is best-in-class.

Ronan|Raven

Well, speaking from the Berlingo point of view. Having done several full flips in mine last night down a 15odd foot drop I have to say they take impact very well.

delly

Ronan|Raven wrote: »

Well, speaking from the Berlingo point of view. Having done several full flips in mine last night down a 15odd foot drop I have to say they take impact very well.

Wow, hope your ok, and eh, pics?

Ronan|Raven

Aye im fine, sore as hell but no major injuries amazingly enough. Afraid no pics, will try get some later when it is being lifted out.

Ronan|Raven

http://img264.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc00275sh7.jpg

Was a good landing.

Gatster

Not bad at all...my Mum bought a new AX 1.0 debut in 1992 that I wangled as my personal transport whilst at Uni. Toured the UK in it after that, best all round small car I have ever driven, was even looking at the 2nd hand AX GT/GTI's on Pistonheads the other day, if only I had the space!

junkyard

Ronan|Raven wrote: »

http://img264.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc00275sh7.jpg

Was a good landing.

Did you put the bit about flying in your profile before or after your crash?:)

Ronan|Raven

Some tricky scrote did it upon hearing my news

groupb

On holidays in Lanzarote last week & had a xzara picasso diesel rental car. Very impressed.It was no sports car but the ride comfort was fine and the engine was far more refined than the 2.0tdi Passat company car I had. It also felt like it was made to last. By contrast I had a rented Touran two years ago in France and the passenger window jammed , the gearnob came off in my hand and it broke down in Lyon.

crosstownk

I read recently (today) that the C4 is the second best NCAP performer, knocked of the number one slot by the C5.........

Scottie99

Bought the C4HDi in may 2005. I've had no problems(touch wood) apart from a couple of call backs. Done 75000kms and get 65mpg travelling to Dublin every day. Tank does around 1200 or so km for full tank around €65. I'm sure someone will do the maths and get an exact figure.

Happy Days!

JHMEG

The Reliability Index ranks Citroen 10th, just after Toyota.

This puts them ahead of the likes of Audi, BMW, Merc, Saab, Volvo, VW etc..

pburns

Sandwich wrote: »

Check out pictures of the new C5 - the look might well do for Citroen what the 156 did for Alfa (although Alfa bungled their golden opportunity to break out of the bad reputation rut with build quality)

CO2 figures for new C5 are pretty crap though. that's a BIG disadvantage in today's market...