Do Periods Make Women Unsuitable for Leadership?

Kernel

How many of you ladies are in positions of power over others in work? Do you think you've ever treated an employee unfairly due to your emotionally delicate state? Does this monthly failure of logic and reasoning make women unsuitable for leadership positions? What do you think?

Time Magazine

This is an active research topic in the fields of Behavioural Finance and Corporate Leadership, within the Efficient Market framework. The empirical evidence is overwhelming that there is a statistically significant difference between the mean covariance of women's management and their menstrual cycles.

Of course many women get emotional and refuse to accept the cold, hard facts. This just proves the literature's findings.

I don't get emotional, unreasonable or illogical during my periods, well if you exclude the rare occassions I am driven demented by pain. I take a sick day then.

I have been guilty of being a complete c*nt when on a diet though.

meglome

So let's see now... A female leader who may be affected by menstruation a couple of days a month or Bertie Ahern... hmm. Does menstruation lead to brown envelope taking? and an obvious disrespect for the electorate?*


*In case anyone missed it I’m with the women.

Agent Smith

Kernel wrote: »

Does this monthly failure of logic and reasoning make women unsuitable for leadership positions? What do you think?

Considering the most powerfull position in the world (The office of President of the United States of America) could be held by a Women in about 11 months time,

NO

(and before someone points out that she would be past that stage in life, i know, its a point i'm making)

LadyJ

Every woman reacts differently to their period. It is not reasonable to generalise about it tbh. Every month I used to have to stay in bed for the first two days of my period. I would vomit and pass out from the pain. I cried all the time.

Now I take the pill. Neither I nor anyone else is affected by my period anymore. It's great. I should be president!

Maple

no, i'm old enough now to know my cycle and understand that my moods can go a little skeways at that time of the month. I know to keep my mouth shut. at work i know to be rational whereas at home i can unleash the demons and turn into an icecream scoffing hysterical freak.

Nevyn

Does men getting distracted by thing about sex 1 out of ever 4 seconds and thier roving eye and the fact that when they are in power have affairs with sectaries and interns make them 'unfit' for power as they are too easily swayed by thier 'dumbstick' ?

Are men due to testosserone too aggressive and arrogant to be in power as they wont' listen to sense and the facts of the matter ?

Ciaran500

Thaedydal wrote: »

Does men getting distracted by thing about sex 1 out of ever 4 seconds and thier roving eye and the fact that when they are in power have affairs with sectaries and interns make them 'unfit' for power as they are too easily swayed by thier 'dumbstick' ?

Are men due to testosserone too aggressive and arrogant to be in power as they wont' listen to sense and the facts of the matter ?

But we're consistent

Oryx

Answer to the question posed: No. Women are very different from men in their makeup, but professional women are not in thrall to their hormones.

Does a persons individual character make them suitable or unsuitable for leadership? Yes.

Such as a man who is powerhungry, mysoginistic, vacuous and ignorant? (I would say yes, but over half of America disagrees. )

BanzaiBk

Emotionally delicate state? :rolleyes:

The odd occasion where the pain becomes overbearing I would just take a sick day. Women go through much harder times and maintain leadership positions just fine.

Walls

Kernel wrote: »

How many of you ladies are in positions of power over others in work? Do you think you've ever treated an employee unfairly due to your emotionally delicate state? Does this monthly failure of logic and reasoning make women unsuitable for leadership positions? What do you think?

The question itself is nonsense. Women do not have a monthly failure of logic and reasoning. Women do not automatically enter an emotionally delicate state. Women are not unsuitable for leadership positions on the basis of gender. Such a question revealed an irrational view of the world and cannot be discussed as a realistic proposition.

Wibbs

Thaedydal wrote: »

Does men getting distracted by thing about sex 1 out of ever 4 seconds and thier roving eye and the fact that when they are in power have affairs with sectaries and interns make them 'unfit' for power as they are too easily swayed by thier 'dumbstick' ?

Are men due to testosserone too aggressive and arrogant to be in power as they wont' listen to sense and the facts of the matter ?

Nope it's their dumbstick and their testosterone that often drives their need for power. More power=more status+more resources=more sexually available women.

There was a study a few years back that found many of the top women in top companies had higher than average testosterone. Seems power and testosterone come as a package. Which is no great surprise as it's a mans club shaped my the needs of men for millenia.

I'm sure if women had run that world for as long, testosterone would have been a liability.

Wibbs

Walls wrote: »

The question itself is nonsense. Women do not have a monthly failure of logic and reasoning. Women do not automatically enter an emotionally delicate state.

Some do though. I've seen it. I've lived with it. I've seen a hugely bright and confident woman go through a deep depression once a month for days. It can be huge change to the point of debilitation in some women. Actually very hard to see someone go through it so often. If treatment(pill etc) is available the change in the quality of their mental life can be unreal. Point is it's usually fixable or you can work around it. I mean some men can be over aggressive boors and that's down to hormones to a large extent too. I think it's easier to spot them though as it is consistent.

Nightwish

I think women should be banned from driving, leading countries, holding any position of authority due to their uncontrollable mood swings, PMT etc. From personal experience, I would be dangerous in authority.

Wrt to Hilary in 11 months time - I believe she's post menopausal, so she should be safe.

Nevyn

Nightwish wrote: »

I think women should be banned from driving, leading countries, holding any position of authority due to their uncontrollable mood swings, PMT etc. From personal experience, I would be dangerous in authority.

Wrt to Hilary in 11 months time - I believe she's post menopausal, so she should be safe.

fúcking charming

So you want to tell that to the other female heads of state around the world ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gloria_Macapagal-Arroyo {resident of the philaphines

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pratibha_Patil President of India

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_McAleese president of Ireland.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helen_Clark Prime Minister of New Zealand

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cristina_Fern%C3%A1ndez_de_Kirchner President of Argentina

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angela_Merkel Chancellor of Germany.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ellen_Johnson-Sirleaf president of Liberia,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luisa_Diogo prime minister of Mozambique

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michelle_Bachelet President of Chile

:rolleyes:

Oryx

Im a moody bint when I have pms, as anyone who knows me will testify. But I have NEVER let it influence in how I deal with people at work.

To say it should exclude women from positons of authority is bollocks

JC 2K3

Thaedydal wrote: »

fúcking charming

So you want to tell that to the other female heads of state around the world ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gloria_Macapagal-Arroyo {resident of the philaphines

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pratibha_Patil President of India

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_McAleese president of Ireland.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helen_Clark Prime Minister of New Zealand

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cristina_Fern%C3%A1ndez_de_Kirchner President of Argentina

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angela_Merkel Chancellor of Germany.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ellen_Johnson-Sirleaf president of Liberia,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luisa_Diogo prime minister of Mozambique

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michelle_Bachelet President of Chile

:rolleyes:

But they're all post-menopausal(or very likely to be, judging by their ages).

Oryx

JC 2K3 wrote: »

But they're all post-menopausal(or very likely to be, judging by their ages).

Ah so they only became interested in politics and pursued any career ambitions when their hormones gave up? Hmmmmmm.

JC 2K3

Exactly.

(I love stupid threads where half the posters are light-heartedly commenting/taking the píss and the rest are being dead serious and getting píssed off at the former as if they were being serious)

Kernel

Walls wrote: »

The question itself is nonsense. Women do not have a monthly failure of logic and reasoning. Women do not automatically enter an emotionally delicate state. Women are not unsuitable for leadership positions on the basis of gender. Such a question revealed an irrational view of the world and cannot be discussed as a realistic proposition.

I dunno.. So far, Ibids post is swaying me towards the 'they shouldn't have their finger on the button' side of the fence....

Nightwish

I was only joking btw....I was poking fun at how I'm an irrational lunatic.

tallaght01

Thaedydal wrote: »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gloria_Macapagal-Arroyo {resident of the philaphines

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pratibha_Patil President of India

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_McAleese president of Ireland.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helen_Clark Prime Minister of New Zealand

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cristina_Fern%C3%A1ndez_de_Kirchner President of Argentina

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angela_Merkel Chancellor of Germany.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ellen_Johnson-Sirleaf president of Liberia,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luisa_Diogo prime minister of Mozambique

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michelle_Bachelet President of Chile

Whilst obviously I disagree that women shouldn't hold positions of power....a lot of the above are nutcases or are highly ineffectual.

biko

Once a woman has managed to break the glass ceiling, crush the competition, learned the secret handshakes and get to a position of actual power she's too old to menstruate.

Susannahmia

That's a total generalisation.Periods don't affect my moods at all, everyones different.

utick

agent smith wrote: »

Considering the most powerfull position in the world (The office of President of the United States of America) could be held by a Women in about 11 months time,

NO

(and before someone points out that she would be past that stage in life, i know, its a point i'm making)

i am sure that we wont make the mistake of electing her

Ayden

I'm usually in charge of training new aids, and orienting newly hired aids when I work "the floor". I can honestly say that as far as I can remember, I haven't been too hard on any one of them because of my discomfort, pain, headache, swelling, etc. On the other hand, I have been known to wear a T-shirt that says, "I have PMS and the ability to fire you!" on dress-down days that applied.:p Sometimes I think that a woman president would be really cool, then I wonder how bad her "monthlies" get. Maybe she'll wake up some morning and decide that the only way to get any relief is to "push the pretty, big, red button".:eek: Of course, the up-side to all of this is age. I'm finally beginning to enjoy as long as 3mos at a time without any of that, and the months that it does come, it's not as long as it used to be. I'm SO looking forward to full-blown menopause. For now, I'm just enjoying the fact that the pre-pausal stuff can be such a fun relief.:D

Time Magazine

Kernel wrote: »

I dunno.. So far, Ibids post is swaying me towards the 'they shouldn't have their finger on the button' side of the fence....

Hehehe

DublinWriter

Thaedydal wrote: »

Does men getting distracted by thing about sex 1 out of ever 4 seconds and thier roving eye and the fact that when they are in power have affairs with sectaries and interns make them 'unfit' for power as they are too easily swayed by thier 'dumbstick' ?

Ahh yes. The old neo-con device of judging a leader by his ability to keep his trousers up.

By applying this rule we now know that JFK and Clinton were two of the worst and most evil presidents in history and that Nixon and Bush Jnr. were the very best.

BTW good call on leaving Margaret Thatcher, Imelda Markos, Winnie Mandela and Golda Mehr off your list!

WindSock

Margaret Thatcher is not a real Woman. She is made of Iron and stuck a luxury tax on period aids.

SubjectSean

meglome wrote: »

*In case anyone missed it I’m with the women.

Lets hope this strategy pays off for you, best of luck

SubjectSean

Kernel wrote: »

Does this monthly failure of logic and reasoning make women unsuitable for leadership positions? What do you think?

If women were suitable for leadership there would be more women leaders by now. They should stick to inventing things and making scientific breakthroughs IMO.

the_syco

SubjectSean wrote: »

If women were suitable for leadership there would be more women leaders by now. They should stick to inventing things and making scientific breakthroughs IMO.

Stay in the kitchen? I think not. Just because they shouldn't be leaders, shouldn't stop them from aspiring to be one.

=-=

I hate Margaret Thatcher, but can say she was a good female leader.

Will America be any good with a woman president? Unsure, but she'll have to order her troops to kill people, to bomb, maim, infuriate her enemies, and still have time for tea.

SubjectSean

Walls wrote: »

The question itself is nonsense. Women do not have a monthly failure of logic and reasoning. Women do not automatically enter an emotionally delicate state. Women are not unsuitable for leadership positions on the basis of gender. Such a question revealed an irrational view of the world and cannot be discussed as a realistic proposition.

OK if this is true can you please explain why so very many women get cranky, insecure and irrational once a month? PMT is what the medical profession call it I believe. Unlike men whose adrogens are state steady female oestrogen levels fluctuate monthly. As they are responsible for function of both brain and body what has been assumed up to now is that the function alters according to the levels of hormone present. However as you are saying this is a nonsense I would like you to account for how females maintain 'state steady' whilst their hormones are all over the show. What hitherto undiscovered physiological mechanism exists that allows this?

JC 2K3

You think men don't have fluctuating hormone levels? lol.

SubjectSean

JC 2K3 wrote: »

You think men don't have fluctuating hormone levels? lol.

Very slightly I believe but nothing like the turbulence experienced by women. Do you have information to indicate men are also on a hormonal roller-coaster? I'm surprised my physiology lecturers failed to mention it.

JC 2K3

Men have constantly fluctuating testosterone levels as well as monthly and seasonal hormonal cycles. It's a bit of a myth that men are always rational and driven by logic, and aren't affected by hormonal cycles, it's just more evident that women experience hormonal cycles due to its concurrent occurance with their periods.

As you're not a woman, SubjectSean, how can you comment on how stongly women's periods affect them? Many women say they don't affect them badly at all....

Tea Leaf

I was just wondering. Does circumcision make men unsuitable for leadership?

Treora

Excluded - no - affected by it - defo. Hormones are just natural involuntary drugs that rob a little of our higher order conscious decision making. I'd love to see cold more stats on the area, but it is such partisan topic that most people see it as personal attack if you say yes.

SubjectSean

Treora wrote: »

but it is such partisan topic that most people see it as personal attack if you say yes.

Agreed but most men don't see it this way it's just a fact of life to them that has to be coped with.

Treora

Hence the partisanship :rolleyes:. Links in well to this thread.

SubjectSean

JC 2K3 wrote: »

As you're not a woman, SubjectSean, how can you comment on how stongly women's periods affect them? Many women say they don't affect them badly at all....

I've lived my life around women and men. The men are steady but I'd say a good 70% of the women get weird once a month. I know that some women aren't badly affected, but then again some women have beards don't they?

Treora

SubjectSean wrote: »

but then again some women have beards don't they?

Narf.

I blame the irish medicines board placing things like melatonin and st. john's wort on the prescriptive medicines list. Now that's an organisation that is far too autocratic.

cance

Nightwish wrote: »

I was only joking btw....I was poking fun at how I'm an irrational lunatic.

wow, just wow. thaed's sarcasm meter must be on the fritz.

Kernel

I find it interesting that other women have said that PMT makes women unsuitable for such roles. My question was asked not only out of interest, but also from life experience. I have had times when girlfriends or females in leadership positions have gone 'a bit strange' in terms of rationale and later admitted it was due to PMT!

And you get the warning that it could happen every month!?! :eek: Not professional.

WindSock

PMT doesn't affect my rationality as far as I can see. I have never blamed my actions on a period. So by using my personal experience, I wouldn't say periods make other Women unsuitable for leadership. If there are Women out there that can't keep themselves in check and blame their periods then yes, I would say they aren't professional enough to be in charge. But I have met very few Women that blame hormones for their actions, and fewer still in positions of authority.

WindSock

If this is the case, take a look at female judges. Do their sentances get harsher in 28 day cycles?

citytillidie

agent smith wrote: »

Considering the most powerfull position in the world (The office of President of the United States of America) could be held by a Women in about 11 months time,

NO

(and before someone points out that she would be past that stage in life, i know, its a point i'm making)

Was that female not already in charge for 8 years in all but name.

Walls

SubjectSean wrote: »

OK if this is true can you please explain why so very many women get cranky, insecure and irrational once a month? PMT is what the medical profession call it I believe. Unlike men whose adrogens are state steady female oestrogen levels fluctuate monthly. As they are responsible for function of both brain and body what has been assumed up to now is that the function alters according to the levels of hormone present. However as you are saying this is a nonsense I would like you to account for how females maintain 'state steady' whilst their hormones are all over the show. What hitherto undiscovered physiological mechanism exists that allows this?

So very many woman do not get cranky, insecure and irrational once a month. Further, there is no need to account for how females maintain 'state steady' whilst their hormones are all over the show. Women do not enter a state of irrationality during their periods. The statement that they do indicates an opinion on your part that women should be lesser because of their sex.

Your arguement that women are unsuitable for leadership is based not on individual characteristics but on perceived character defects resulting from gender. You suggest women are not suitable for leadership, but provide no collary arguement relating to taxation, political representation, etc.

Your arguement bears a lot of simularity to those of Kevin O'Higgins. In 1924 he introduced a bill designed to bar women from serving on juries in the State. He argued that 'Men have not that shrinking from the duty, that reluctance to go into the box and face the ordeal of sitting for perhaps four, five or six days trying a man for his life that the normal woman has.' Notice that women who were capable were regarded as him as not normal. As a result of his work, the only people assessing criminalty were male until the 1970s.

What you are suggesting is the reduction of opportunity to members of society based solely on your perception of their being lesser. You have provided nothing more in support of your opinion that your belief that they are lesser. I can draw conclusions about you from your beliefs, but suffice to say that you do not have very mature ideas about women. I do not believe you have won this arguement.

Crumble Froo

oh man, when tired, i become really really depressed the coupla days before my period.

had forgotten about that til yesterday.