Im going to court....

LegacyUser

This is my first time posting here,but i just cant seem to find the info im looking for anywhere else.

i am a 20 year old male,in the first year of a computer systems and networking degree,i have no criminal record or had anything dealings with the garda before.

i have just received a letter stating that i will be required to appear in the district court in 3 weeks where i am to be accused of breaking the Firearms and offensive weapons act 1990 section 9(1). I do not have the funds to hire a solicitor.

about 6 months ago i was walking home from doing some shopping with my girlfriend and another friend of mine at 11pm at night,we were stopped and searched under the drugs act(garda said it was because we were out late at night in a well known drug selling area)

None of use had any drugs,but i did have a spring loaded flick knife in my jacket pocket,my friend had just given it to me as a gift from his recent trip to Spain.

i had no reason for having this knife(illegal Knife!) on me at the time,so i know that i will be found guilty of braking the law,and i don't see a reason in arguing about it.

but my question is what should i do now(do i just turn up on the day?),and what kind of penalty should i be expecting to get? and what might i say/do to try and minimize the penalty.

i know it was my own fault and that i should not have been carrying it in the first place,i was not planning to stab anyone,it was just a souvenir from his trip. .please only post helpful comments.

thank you.
-SG-

King of Kings

first off go to the station and arrange to see the arresting garda. apologise like a mad man and tell him the story again - make the garda think you are a decent lad. this kissing of ass looks great in court and will go down well with the judge and when the judge asks the garda (as he will) about your probability to reoffend the garda will probably say v.unlikely which goes down well too.

if you're record is clean and you tell your story clearly and mannerly to the judge remembering to tell him you are a professional with a good job and a conviction will damage your prospects and apologise like mad again to the court - you'll prob get the probation act and a few hundred euro fine (btw you get to agree a period of time with the court to produce this for example 2 months)
the probation act is a slap on the wrist that leaves you without conviction.

personally i won't bother with a solicitor - they'll charge you 500 euro to show up and tell the judge you're a good lad.
you can tell him that yourself.

btw call him judge and not "your honour" judges hate being called "your honour"

LegacyUser

First of all, you were crazy to have allowed yourself fall into this situation, but you are in it and you have to get out of it pretty smartly.

1. Get Character References
Ask your local Priest, clergyman or Rabi to write a character reference letter on your behalf

Ask one of you lecturers the same.

Ask the head of any club or society that you are a member of the same.


2. Check out Free Legal Aid. I don't know how these guys work but ask. Prosecution could have a field day with you.

3. Yes go to the arresting Garda and plead your case and how it could destroy your future prospects.

4. With all of the above BE HONEST. Honesty is the best policy. Don't give anyone the opportunity to pick holes in your story.

5. Go to court wearing a suit and tie and be as neat and presentable as possible.

6. If Free Legal Aid is not available to you, spend that €500 and get a solicitor (I don't know what it costs). It could be €500 that could save your future.

7. In court, speak clearly and as distinctly as possible. Do not use slang, mumble or swear. Show utmost respect to the court. Show them that you are a good citizen who made a very very foolish mistake.

8. Attend court with your family as support if possible.

9. I would address the judge as "your honour".


I do wish you the very best of luck. Work hard to get a second chance. And when you do get that second chance think before you act.

Good luck to you.

Dave!

9.—(1) Subject to subsections (2) and (3), where a person has with him in any public place any knife or any other article which has a blade or which is sharply pointed, he shall be guilty of an offence.

( 7 ) ( a ) A person guilty of an offence under subsection (1) shall be liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding £1,000 or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding twelve months or to both.
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1990/en/act/pub/0012/sec0009.html#zza12y1990s9

I'd agree with most of what King of Kings said, except if it were me, I'd probably go wild and spend the €500 on a solicitor.

LegacyUser

would going to the arresting officer not just make them angry?

can such a thing be overturned just like that when it have gone this far?
the letter is from the director of public prosecutors office.

do normal garda have the power to reverse that?

StandnDeliver

go to a solicitor,they ask the judge for legal aid for you,the judge asks you have you any savings etc,how much you earn a week etc,then the judge decides if you get legal aid,if not then you pay for the solicitor,he generally bills you a few weeks later,work out a payment plan,or ask your family.

secondly the suit idea is good,

thirdly ask your solicitor alot of questions regarding what happens,try and get him to ask the judge for the probation act.

references is an excellent idea,give them to your solicitor.

the sooner you get that sorted the better.

Judges do not look kindly on you defending yourself.

Good Luck

Beechman

Is there any way of bringing to court proof that your friend was recently in Spain before you were arrested and it was an honest mistake i.e back a few days previous from Holiday met for a pint ,gave you the present etc....If its longer than a week or so it may be difficult and the DPP could bring this up against you.

Anyway take the good advice given on this thread and good luck with the court case

eirebhoy

Walk into the court. When you get called you just walk up on your own to the same spot everyone else stands. You'll be asked what you do for a living and basic stuff. The judge will then ask if you want legal aid. Tell him/her that you do. He/She'll then ask if you want a specific solicitor. Just say no if you want and the judge will then pick one of the solicitors for you. You then have a chat with your solicitor and he'll advise you on the rest.

Don't worry about it. You'll most likely get something like a 200 quid fine which you pay to the charity of the judges choice. You then produce the receipt in court at the arranged date. The judge may even ask you how long you'll need to save up the money.

Things like going to the guard beforehand, wearing a full suit, etc. are all well and good but your punishment for such a crime will probably just be the same anyway. If you have a suit already then by all means wear it but I wouldn't go paying for one. Honestly, if you wore jeans, shoes and a shirt you'll be better dressed than 90% of them. boards users tend to go overboard in cases like this. It's a petty crime, nothing more. I've never seen anything other than a fine for a crime like this on first offence.

LegacyUser

Do get a solicitor... "The man who represents himself has a fool for a client".

Do wear a suit, will it hurt you if you do? No. Will it hurt you if you don't? Maybe. Do you want to risk it?

Do go to the arresting Garda. I had a friend who was summonsed for a petty crime (urination in public). The court date conflicted with one of his final college exams. He went to the arresting Ban Garda, apologised, and explained that he wouldn't be able to make the court date. She told him not to worry about it and didn't press charges against him. The Garda has to give evidence, otherwise you can't be convicted (they can reschedule if the Garda is sick). If the Garda is sympathetic to you, he/she may not give the evidence/press charges. They will not be annoyed at you, as long as you are genuinely remorseful and apologetic. Explain you are scared for your future, how the knife was a present and how you'd never be so stupid again.

In court if you have to address the Judge, call him/her 'Judge', not 'Your Honour'. Barristers and Gardai will call the Judge 'Judge', you will see this yourself, do not deviate from this.

If you have a good solicitor you will probably not have to say anything, or even stand up. He/She will be in a position to chat to the prosecution during the breaks, and explain that you're a good lad etc. You need the prosecution sympathetic in the event that your Solicitor tries to have the case struck off, the Judge will ask the prosecution for objections, you want them to say no.

If there is one thing in your life you do right, do this right. Spend what money you have to and make what ever effort is required.

It's not just a case of taking the fine, if you do you will have a Criminal Conviction. You will have to declare this if you ever go for a job (I'm in your industry and convictions are not looked upon kindly). You will not be able to travel to America ever, in IT this can be a career killer, and you haven't even started yet.

That is worst case scenario, and you will be far more likely to hit that scenario if you listen to the people telling you to take it easy, not bother with a suit and represent yourself.

Would you reccommend to someone who's hard disk had crashed, and who barely knew how to turn a computer on that they should get out a screwdriver and try to fix it themselves? I would think not, unless you wanted to have a laugh at them messing up. Get a solicitor, this is what they do, they know the tricks and how to play it.

If you do things right there is a very strong likelyhood that you will be given a 'pre conviction' where it's noted that you are guilty of this crime, but you are not convicted as a criminal. This is what usually involves a donation of a couple of hundred euros to the poor box. Money well spent to remove a stain on you the rest of your life.

Book the solicitor well in advance, and ring and confirm the week of the court date. I wouldn't take the risk of a court appointed solicitor, find out a good one who works in the court you are going to and hire them.

If you do not have money, go to your parents, your aunts, your uncles, your friends, anyone. It may seem like a horrible thing to have to confess to, but wouldn't it be worse when your mam organizes a surprise trip to the states and then you have to tell her you can't go because of your conviction?

If you don't take care of this it will follow you until the end of your days.

Please take my advice. Make the investment in yourself now. Don't regret it in 20 years.

If you do it right, you will be ok. Don't worry or stress out about it, just make sure you are prepared. I'm sure you won't be convicted, but do give yourself the best chance possible.

I'm so glad I saw this on the main boards.ie page when I logged on because you have been getting terrible advice up till now.

impr0v

Don't stress overly about this. Your clean record, and the fact that you are in full time education will stand to you. Follow the advice above and be civil and respectful in court, including being there in plenty of time, etc. The vast majority of DC judges are reasonable and will listen carefully to your circumstances, etc. They're used to dealing with repeat offenders who have absolutely no respect for the court, or the punishments meeted out.

I would personally instruct a solicitor before I got to court if I could afford it at all. If he or she is any good they'll tell you all this, but express remorse at the earliest opportunity and emphasis stuff like your intention to travel on J1 visas in the future, etc., and that a criminal record will prejudice that. You're a prime candidate for s.1(1) of the probation act if you play your cards right, and it will leave you with no criminal record.

GutShot@CHLs

OP the Guard has a good bit of discretion available. Lots of things can be interpreted as offensive weapons (hurleys, baseball bats, hockey sticks,... even a pencil), it's more about intent, context and the Guard's opinion. Go to him and plead your case with character refs, never been in trouble before, good job, etc.

If commonsense does not prevail with him, there is a good likelyhood that the case might be dismissed or the Guard mightn't even turn up. If you do everything right but still end up in court, the most you are likely to get is the Probation Act with a few quid to the poor box and no record. Use 'judge', not 'your honour'.

Most of all don't worry

kowloon

Wouldn't stress much about it, if you're presented as an honest hard working member of society you'll be fine.
These things are increasingly socially biased.

celt2005

Get representation. http://www.flac.ie

Ring and book appointment, Go through case , you will have professional advice.Even junkies have solicitors in court, if you cannot pay, representation will be provided, FLAC will recomend brief who has experience in area that works on low income system.

Do not see point in contacting arresting guard, he is one who charged you, and generally guards are unhelpful on issues like this, common sense in short supply.


Hope all turns out well for you, my guess is you will be fined, at worst suspended sentence.

The Hacker

OP I'd say you know quite well the story "my mate brought it back from spain like 10 minutes ago" is not gonna be believed - do you honestly think nobody has ever tried it before?
"What this pellet gun? Ohh no my mate just brought it back from greece today"
"These machetes I'm carrying? Ohh I'm just back from the shop where I bought them"

So my er.. advice is get yourself a decent solicitor and hope for the best. Good luck - and stop carrying knives around!

biko

In trouble wrote: »

we were stopped and searched under the drugs act(garda said it was because we were out late at night in a well known drug selling area)
...
None of use had any drugs,but i did have a spring loaded flick knife in my jacket pocket,my friend had just given it to me as a gift from his recent trip to Spain.

Will your mate corroborate the story with the knife from Spain and how he willingly carried an offensive weapon into Ireland?

spinandscribble

use documents proving your mates flight to spain, witnesses that saw you being even the knife, reasons why you were in a drug area of town and beg/lick every ass available to you at the station. this isnt a time for pride. pay the money for court representative, it looks like you think highly of yourself to represent yourself and if you have someone there it looks like you take things very seriously.

brokensoul

Im work in this field so i may be able to advise.

Firstly, GET A SOLICITOR! It will aid you and it will also impress the Judge. If you cant afford one then find a solicitor who deals with criminal legal aid ( a different thing to civil legal aid so there is no point going to the legal aid board). These solicitors will be listed in the golden pages. The two criteria for criminal legal aid are that the crime is "serious" meaning ( usually) that it carries the threat of prison and that you dont have the funds for a private solicitor. If you dont qualify under the means test, then i would advise that you still get a solicitor. It will aid your case, as i said. Also, there may be a technical flaw in the summons etc which might mean a solicitor could get the matter struck out.

Secondly, go and apologise to the guard. it may make him think better of you. Even if it doesnt, it can be brought to the attention of the Judge that you did make the effort to apologise to guard and they will take that into account.

Thirdly, wear a suit to Court. If you have piercings take them out. If you hae tattoos cover them. if you have a shaved head, let it grow for a few weeks. No chewing gum, no smell of drink off you. I know that none of these things should make a difference, but they do. Also, the correct name for a district court judge is "Judge" so he shoudl be addressed as such, not as "your honour". if you have a solicitor though, let tyhe talking to him. Why keep a dog and bark yourself!

Fourthly, get references, as was mentioned above. If someone will come to court on your behalf so much the better.

Finally, your explaination as to why you had the knife ( though im not doubting you) is very suspect. Prepard yourself to be questioned as to why you had it ( ie did you ask yer man to bring it home for you) why you didnt leave it in your house rather than carry it in public etc.

I find that most people found in possession of flick knives happen to have been fishing in the recent past and forget to take it out of the coat pocket as they hadnt worn that jacket again since the night they were fishing. Tis amazing how many times i hear that sceal ;-)

Seriously though, im not saying that you should make up a story as to why you had the knife ( in fact i most strongly urge against it - you will be under oath after all) but try and explain rationally why the hell you had the knife in your pocket.

Suit, sorry, solicitor - that should go a long way towards getting you the probation act.

Good luck

grumpytrousers

only read the your post and not too much of the others, but as it's a section 9 offence there is 'technically' a risk that you will go to prison. As your liberty is at stake, you should qualify for free legal aid so if i were you, in all seriousness, i'd get me arse down to a solicitor, show him the summons, tell him what you've told here and away you go.

it's highly likely that if you're as clean as a whistle you'll get a bollocking and the probation act, but that'll depend on the form of the judge. best of luck!

the poinst about apologising to the guard are all fine and dandy, but ultimately, it's not like the OP was being twat to the guard; my reading of the situation is that he was at all times quite co-operative and the garda will, no doubt, say this.

the OPs solicitor will take up statements and be able to do far more than we can!

Drift

It's very important to get a solictor because it will show everyone how much you respect the gravity of your situation. Borrow money from parents and family members to pay if you have to.

The solicitor will tell you what to expect and may or may not be able to have a chat with the garda and prosecution in advance.

I've never been in this situation personally but I know from a friends case that its important to act with deference at all times to the guard, judge and even your own solicitor because he/she will think highly of you and put in lots of effort on your behalf.

I would assume that it would also look good if your parents accompanied you to court on the day.

eirebhoy

Since he's a student he won't need to pay for a soliciter so it's a no brainier that he'll get one.

Also, OP, make sure to post back here after your appearance. Everyone has the same worries when they're up in court for the first time and it'll save some people opening similar threads if you tell us your experience.

Oilrig

OP, Do the Garda apology, explain the circumstances etc.

Get a Solicitor, show respect to the Court as a measure of how serious you take this.

Dress up, same as above.

References, same as above.

Definitely "Judge" not "Your Honour" show that you're serious, have done your research.

Play the game, you get one chance, the consequences of not doing so are bad.

Good Luck.

Agent Smith

1. Wear a suit, for the love of god wear a suit, even if you have to borrow one.
2. Get a soliciter, this is what they do, you wouldnt get a plumber to fix your car
3. Bring money to donate to the court poor box
(i know of someone who was in court, and in the opening statement his soliciter told the judge "my client has Brought a Sizeable donation for the court poor box." the case was thrown out after he donated (i think it was 400 euro) to the St Vincent De Paul
4. Address the Judge correctly.
5. Dont slouch, articulate and speak correctly. Do not, under any circumstances use slang.
6. bring family, but not friends.( your partner yes, but not your friends, and if they must come, make them wear suits


If its True what you have said here, You should be fine.

feel free to pm me if you want to chat more

niceirishfella

I hope the guard in this case has not sent your knife off to be tested for traces of blood or cocaine? I have heard of this before.

I also hope for your sake, that you did not use it for anything more than you say or hot water is ahead.

good luck anyways and do as all the other posters rightly said. Respect the court, clean suit, shirt and tie, no ear rings,good grooming and no slang...........and chin up!

NIF.

LegacyUser

Well today i was in court,(almost)

today at 10.30am was my court case,i had gotten a solicitor a few weeks ago and and was expecting the out come to be a fine and criminal record(he said he thought that was the most likely outcome).

But due to the fact the gardai failed to provide my solicitor with some statement documents by the time of court,it was canceled today and put back until the second week in march,i will post again when that happens.(very annoying i wanted to get this all over with.)

But i will tell you all about my day in court anyway.

My girl friend and i sat in the court room for hours waiting for my case to come up.
The court was VERY busy,at least 40 cases in that court today.

On the good side i was in the group of better dressed people there there,80% of the other people in court that day were wearing tracksuits and hoodies,and there were many from the "traveling community" .

The judge today looked as if he had been in that chair since the foundation of the state.
i thought they had to retire at 65?,this man looked in his 80s(though maybe he has just had a stressful life).
he had very bad posture and unbelievably thick glasses,he also seemed to be hard of hearing.

From watching the other cases today it makes me a bit happy that mine was canceled because the judge was a man of pure hate and anger.

He was EXTREMELY harsh on everyone in court to day,full of snide and sarcastic comments and a few times he referred to the people in court as parasites,leaches and cowards of society with nothing but greed and money in their mind.

He very rarely looked up from his papers and spoke mostly at his desk.

Yes most of the people in court were ment to be there,they were clearly repeat offenders and had no respect for the court,or anything else.
but then a few people there were honest normal people who had just made a simple mistake or two,but they were all treated at if they were the same kind of scum.

As for any personal issues a defendant had,the judge did not care,some had wifes about to have
babies,some were students,poor and and trying to pay for college,some were getting married or applying for new job or visas,
his answer to all of the above issues raised by the lawyers where "well why did Mr xxxxx not think of that before his actions" or "well he obviously values Niki shoes over his new baby" and other sentences similar.

any faith i did have in the legal system is gone,the out come of judgments today seemed to have little to do with the offense and defendant but more to do with the mood of the judge.

I'm hoping when my case does come up i get one of the younger judges i saw walking around in the courthouse,they looked more like normal human beings.

Turner

In trouble wrote: »

Well today i was in court,(almost)

today at 10.30am was my court case,i had gotten a solicitor a few weeks ago and and was expecting the out come to be a fine and criminal record(he said he thought that was the most likely outcome).

But due to the fact the gardai failed to provide my solicitor with some statement documents by the time of court,it was canceled today and put back until the second week in march,i will post again when that happens.(very annoying i wanted to get this all over with.)

But i will tell you all about my day in court anyway.

My girl friend and i sat in the court room for hours waiting for my case to come up.
The court was VERY busy,at least 40 cases in that court today.

On the good side i was in the group of better dressed people there there,80% of the other people in court that day were wearing tracksuits and hoodies,and there were many from the "traveling community" .

The judge today looked as if he had been in that chair since the foundation of the state.
i thought they had to retire at 65?,this man looked in his 80s(though maybe he has just had a stressful life).
he had very bad posture and unbelievably thick glasses,he also seemed to be hard of hearing.

From watching the other cases today it makes me a bit happy that mine was canceled because the judge was a man of pure hate and anger.

He was EXTREMELY harsh on everyone in court to day,full of snide and sarcastic comments and a few times he referred to the people in court as parasites,leaches and cowards of society with nothing but greed and money in their mind.

He very rarely looked up from his papers and spoke mostly at his desk.

Yes most of the people in court were ment to be there,they were clearly repeat offenders and had no respect for the court,or anything else.
but then a few people there were honest normal people who had just made a simple mistake or two,but they were all treated at if they were the same kind of scum.

As for any personal issues a defendant had,the judge did not care,some had wifes about to have
babies,some were students,poor and and trying to pay for college,some were getting married or applying for new job or visas,
his answer to all of the above issues raised by the lawyers where "well why did Mr xxxxx not think of that before his actions" or "well he obviously values Niki shoes over his new baby" and other sentences similar.

any faith i did have in the legal system is gone,the out come of judgments today seemed to have little to do with the offense and defendant but more to do with the mood of the judge.

I'm hoping when my case does come up i get one of the younger judges i saw walking around in the courthouse,they looked more like normal human beings.

Thats why *most* people obey the law.

They fear of having to go through the day you just went through.

The scumbags or regulars in the courts know its a circus, but most people dont want to end up there and obey the law, which in reality keeps society going and stops it from breaking down.

Its up to the gards on a daily basis to keep on flooding the courts with *regulars*/scumbags/drug addicts.

This keeps the fear in law abiding citizens to obey the law.

In trouble

In trouble wrote: »

Well today i was in court,(almost)

today at 10.30am was my court case,i had gotten a solicitor a few weeks ago and and was expecting the out come to be a fine and criminal record(he said he thought that was the most likely outcome).

But due to the fact the gardai failed to provide my solicitor with some statement documents by the time of court,it was canceled today and put back until the second week in march,i will post again when that happens.(very annoying i wanted to get this all over with.)

But i will tell you all about my day in court anyway.

My girl friend and i sat in the court room for hours waiting for my case to come up.
The court was VERY busy,at least 40 cases in that court today.

On the good side i was in the group of better dressed people there there,80% of the other people in court that day were wearing tracksuits and hoodies,and there were many from the "traveling community" .

The judge today looked as if he had been in that chair since the foundation of the state.
i thought they had to retire at 65?,this man looked in his 80s(though maybe he has just had a stressful life).
he had very bad posture and unbelievably thick glasses,he also seemed to be hard of hearing.

From watching the other cases today it makes me a bit happy that mine was canceled because the judge was a man of pure hate and anger.

He was EXTREMELY harsh on everyone in court to day,full of snide and sarcastic comments and a few times he referred to the people in court as parasites,leaches and cowards of society with nothing but greed and money in their mind.

He very rarely looked up from his papers and spoke mostly at his desk.

Yes most of the people in court were ment to be there,they were clearly repeat offenders and had no respect for the court,or anything else.
but then a few people there were honest normal people who had just made a simple mistake or two,but they were all treated at if they were the same kind of scum.

As for any personal issues a defendant had,the judge did not care,some had wifes about to have
babies,some were students,poor and and trying to pay for college,some were getting married or applying for new job or visas,
his answer to all of the above issues raised by the lawyers where "well why did Mr xxxxx not think of that before his actions" or "well he obviously values Niki shoes over his new baby" and other sentences similar.

any faith i did have in the legal system is gone,the out come of judgments today seemed to have little to do with the offense and defendant but more to do with the mood of the judge.

I'm hoping when my case does come up i get one of the younger judges i saw walking around in the courthouse,they looked more like normal human beings.

Oh wah, the Judge was mean. Judges and Gardai put up with the scum of this country everyday. Seriously, it must drive some of them to the bottle!! I get pissed off seeing junkies etc. on the street, could you imagine having to deal with them every bloody day?! Or maybe you should voice your opinion to the Judge about his curt manner and lack of empathy :rolleyes:?!

Here's a thought for you OP, you dont seem to have a clue about the real workings of the Justice system so go read a paper.

_JOE_

I'm afraid you'll most likely meet that judge again, as District court judges more than likely sit in the one District Court...

Reku

GutShot@CHLs wrote: »

OP the Guard has a good bit of discretion available. Lots of things can be interpreted as offensive weapons (hurleys, baseball bats, hockey sticks,... even a pencil), it's more about intent, context and the Guard's opinion. Go to him and plead your case with character refs, never been in trouble before, good job, etc.

Ordinarily you would be correct, however the particular knife in this instance is on the list of weapons that are illegal to possess, make, sell, buy or import as such just having one is a crime in and of itself, there is no need to prove intent.

If the OP's friend is aware of this he may be hesitent to speak up in court since he would be guilty of importing the knife.

At a guess though I'd say that they might not obsess too much on enforcing it against small spring loaded flick knives (there are worse things on that list, though most of the items are there more out of their easy concealment and ready deployment to a usable state, like a spring loaded flick knife) so even pleading ignorance of the illegal nature of the knife and giving a good (law abiding upstanding citizen type) reason as to why your friend may have thought that you would appreciate such an item as a gift might get you off with just a warning.

dudara

@ Ruledbyjames Please be more respectful to other posters in this forum.

@ All other posters Please do not turn this thread into an argument about the courts system. PI is not the place for such discussion.

dudara

In trouble

In trouble wrote: »

I'm hoping when my case does come up i get one of the younger judges i saw walking around in the courthouse,they looked more like normal human beings.

I think they were most likely barristers. Judges wouldnt walk around the court.

LegacyUser

"I think they were most likely barristers. Judges wouldnt walk around the court."

barristers wear suits
these people were walking between offices and court rooms and wearing the big long black cloak things.,i think they were judges anyway.

i know it can be expected that having spent a life time in the legal system and dealing with criminal types day in day out,would warp anyones view of the world,but i would think when it gets to the point of pure hate towards the defendants it should be time the judge took a brake for a few years to relax maybe,

judges are meant to make judgments on the facts of each case,not just make generalizations,that if you are in court you are an evil person.

My friend has no problem saying the knife was his and that i was just holding it for him in my bag because it was dangerous to carry in his pocket,
but the solicitor says that will not make much difference as i was the one with it at the time,
and the crime is possession,not ownership.

aidan24326

In trouble wrote: »

today at 10.30am was my court case,i had gotten a solicitor a few weeks ago and and was expecting the out come to be a fine and criminal record(he said he thought that was the most likely outcome).

Great solicitor he is. His job is to make sure you don't get a criminal record. If you apologised to the guard, apologise to the court, your good character and previous good behaviour is considered, the fact that you're a third level student and not a waster on the dole, you look decent/well dressed etc, all these things should work in your favour and on a first offence you'd be a bit unlucky to get a criminal record.

However even if you do it's not necessarily the end of the world that some are making it out to be. Travelling to America will be an issue for sure, but unless living in America is your dream that's hardly a disaster. As for declaring it on job applications, well you don't, simple as that. The only jobs where a criminal record is likely to scupper your chances is in something like social care, montessori, teaching, gardai, medical profession etc where they really do check up on it.

For any other job to confess to a minor conviction would be just plain stupid. They won't find out.

On the good side i was in the group of better dressed people there there,80% of the other people in court that day were wearing tracksuits and hoodies,and there were many from the "traveling community" .

The majority of cases in the District Court will be hoodie-wearing scangers who are repeat offenders, the Judge would likely be sick of the site of half of them. The fact you're turning up as a decent-looking citizen in a suit is one plus at least.

From watching the other cases today it makes me a bit happy that mine was canceled because the judge was a man of pure hate and anger.

He was EXTREMELY harsh on everyone in court to day,full of snide and sarcastic comments and a few times he referred to the people in court as parasites,leaches and cowards of society with nothing but greed and money in their mind.

He very rarely looked up from his papers and spoke mostly at his desk.

Yes most of the people in court were ment to be there,they were clearly repeat offenders and had no respect for the court,or anything else.
but then a few people there were honest normal people who had just made a simple mistake or two,but they were all treated at if they were the same kind of scum.

As for any personal issues a defendant had,the judge did not care,some had wifes about to have
babies,some were students,poor and and trying to pay for college,some were getting married or applying for new job or visas,
his answer to all of the above issues raised by the lawyers where "well why did Mr xxxxx not think of that before his actions" or "well he obviously values Niki shoes over his new baby" and other sentences similar.

any faith i did have in the legal system is gone,the out come of judgments today seemed to have little to do with the offense and defendant but more to do with the mood of the judge.

It's luck of the draw with the Judge. I was in court once myself in Dublin (minor offence) and the Judge was sound. It's pure luck. Unless you're in a small town court where it's always the same judge you may not get the same guy next time.

I'm hoping when my case does come up i get one of the younger judges i saw walking around in the courthouse,they looked more like normal human beings

As has been said they would be barristers. Only one judge. If you're in Dublin the District Courts have several different sittings with different judges so just hope that you get a different one next time. It would be the same in the bigger places I'd imagine, like Cork, Limerick etc where there would be more than one.

It's a bit of luck with the guard you get too. The guard in my case told the judge of my good character, lack of previous convictions and that I was 'unlikely to come to their attention' again. So the judge made me donate a small sum to charity and that was it (even though a solicitior had previously told me I'd get a fine and crim. conviction) - I didn't have a solicitor on the day.

tritium

In trouble wrote: »

barristers wear suits
these people were walking between offices and court rooms and wearing the big long black cloak things.,i think they were judges anyway.

Not sure about the district court, but my understanding is that solicitors wear suits, barristers wear robes, maybe someone familiar with the district court can comment

In trouble wrote: »

i know it can be expected that having spent a life time in the legal system and dealing with criminal types day in day out,would warp anyones view of the world,but i would think when it gets to the point of pure hate towards the defendants it should be time the judge took a brake for a few years to relax maybe,

possibly true

In trouble wrote: »

judges are meant to make judgments on the facts of each case,not just make generalizations,that if you are in court you are an evil person.

agreed

In trouble wrote: »

My friend has no problem saying the knife was his and that i was just holding it for him in my bag because it was dangerous to carry in his pocket,
but the solicitor says that will not make much difference as i was the one with it at the time,
and the crime is possession,not ownership.

Maybe I've misread your original post OP, but it sounds like you're willing to let your friend perjure himself to help get you off. I'm not sure why you've moved from the somewhat contrite place you were in when you originally posted, but I would suggest that your current attitude is unlikely to endear you to a judge, world weary or not. Plenty of posters here have already given you very good advice on how to help yourself here, all I can do is suggest you amend your current attitude and take some of it. You did this, thats not going to change. dealing with it in a mature and responsible way, and taking some responsibility might just be your best bet here

BanzaiBk

Judges don't walk around the place in their robes, they were barristers. OP I would most definitly have gone and had a chat with the arresting Garda anyway, just to show that you made that effort because that would have certainly aided you. Trying to implicate someone else in front of a judge is not going to enamour you particularly well to the court tbh so I wouldn't even consider trying to get your friend involved in this.

King of Kings

My Advice wrote: »

9. I would address the judge as "your honour".


.

this person hasn't a clue.
in ireland judges are referred to as "judge" not "your honour" which is a foreign title.
gardai warned me about this prior to my brief stint on front of the judge.

dermot_sheehan

A spring loaded knife is per se illegal to import and sell under the offensive weapons act not per se illegal to possess.

There is a defence of lawful possession to a s. 9(1) charge, did you have any lawful excuse for having a spring loaded knife on you (I can't think of any), if you did it would be an absolute defence.

The question is why were you walking around the streets at night with a spring loaded knife? I think your solicitor is right, you are looking at a fine and a conviction being recorded. It would be very hard to get s. 1(1) of the probation act in such a situation (where no conviction is recored), you are likely to get that for public order offences.

Carrying a knife is a serious offence since knives when used in a fight tend to turn a simple assault into murder/manslaughter. For that reason courts need to punish and deter people from carrying them around the public streets. You were found carrying one at night which would be aggravating in the eyes of the judge as it meant there was a serious chance it could have been used in a drunken brawl.

Regarding u.s. immigration, a conviction involving a crime of moral turpitude makes you inadmissable without a waiver and a specially applied for waiver. I'm not sure if unlawful possession of a knife counts as a crime of moral turptude. It's up to you whether you disclose it at the airport in any case.

Nearly all of those people going around the courts would be barristers (with the wigs, gowns, collars and tabs), there would only be roughly 30 judges around the four courts area and they dont mingle outside court rooms.

A judge is called judge, not your honour (at least on this side of the atlantic)

GutShot@CHLs

farohar wrote: »

Ordinarily you would be correct, however the particular knife in this instance is on the list of weapons that are illegal to possess, make, sell, buy or import as such just having one is a crime in and of itself, there is no need to prove intent.

Quite correct, (spring-loaded) my bad. How does/can that affect the Guard's discretion - does it get completely removed????

newbie2

In trouble wrote: »

but i did have a spring loaded flick knife in my jacket pocket,my friend had just given it to me as a gift from his recent trip to Spain.

In trouble wrote: »

i was just holding it for him in my bag because it was dangerous to carry in his pocket,

Which one was it?
Your Honour.....

johnnysmurfman

This is advice you should listen to

Go to court on the date in question. When your name is called walk forward and stand in the box. Tell the judge that you haven't spoken to a solicitor as you can't afford a solicitor and ask him to grant you legal aid. The Judge will grant legal aid (normally without too much fuss) and will appoint a legal aid solicitor from the solicitors in court. That solicitor will then apply to have the case put back to take instructions from you while the Gardai furnish a copy of all of the evidence. There could well be some defect in the prosecution's case which the solicitor will spot. The case will come back to court on the next day after your legal aid solicitor has spoken to you in the interim. On that day you will either plead guilty or the matter will go forward for hearing. Do not under any circumstances follow some of the advice above indicating that you should go to court and plead guilty automatically. You are entitled to legal representation if you can't afford it and you are entitled to see the nature of the evidence against you. This is the best possible advice you can get on this matter.

dudara

@ johnnysmurfman The OP has already stated that he had secured the services of a solicitor.

King of Kings

i'm gonna say it again.
solicitors are a waste of cash. and from the OP's account so far - there is nothing his brief did there that the OP couldn't have done himself.

In fact on my previous encounter with the courts. the one solicitor who actually tried to help their client above and beyond the usual "he's a good lad" only antagonised the judge.

by 2 cents.

Reku

GutShot@CHLs wrote: »

Quite correct, (spring-loaded) my bad. How does/can that affect the Guard's discretion - does it get completely removed????

Actually I read back over the legislation after seeing gabhain7's post and you were right initially, providing a good reason for having it in public should be acceptable (onus is on you to prove your reason was valid and with no intent to cause harm to another so this would be one of the few exceptions to the innocent 'til proven guilty concept). However the issue of how he got it will still be a problem since they are illegal to import or to give to another person so it would be a case of either he or his friend is guilty of an offense.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1990/en/act/pub/0012/sec0012.html
See section 12 - (1) - (c) and 12 - (6).

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/plweb-cgi/fastweb?state_id=1201079170&view=ag-view&docrank=10&numhitsfound=15&query_rule=%28%28$query1%29%3C%3DYEAR%3C%3D%28$query2%29%29%20AND%20%28%28$query3%29%29%3Alegtitle%20AND%20%28%28$query4%29%29%3Anumber%20AND%20%28%28$query5%29%29%3Asectionno%20%20AND%20%28%28$query0%29%29&query3=weapons&docid=19683&docdb=SIs&dbname=Acts&dbname=SIs&sorting=none&operator=and&TemplateName=predoc.tmpl&setCookie=1
Section 2 - (a) marks flick knives as being an item to which the above section 12 applies to.