weights and boxing

Absolute Zero

hi, i lift weights in my local gym quite regularly, and last week i was speaking to one of the gym instructors about the boxing that they also teach there. Now my question is does weight lifting make your muscles slower for boxing?, thats what a freind of mine has told me but is this a myth or is it real?

amazingemmet

http://www.rossboxing.com/

One of the best places on the net for boxing training advice.

Focusing too much on max strength and not speed strength has a bad effect on punching power in boxers iirc but a good basis in strength training will aid

cowzerp

Weights should be pushed fast and hard just like punching, then they can make your muscles explosive-weights should be a good part of a boxers training..

Hanley

My boxing knowledge isn't the best... but I was always under the impression that the most powerful punches come from the combined rotation of the hips and extenstion of the arm?

If that's the case then it would make perfect sense to build a good power base in that area with squats, deadlifts and powercleans (to work on triple extentsion and explosion). I'm sure the added core strength would be of benefit too.

I'm sure Roper will chime in here since he's probably the man to talk to on this!

rubadub

Hanley wrote: »

My boxing knowledge isn't the best... but I was always under the impression that the most powerful punches come from the combined rotation of the hips and extenstion of the arm?

There was a martial arts program on discovery or some such channel. They had masters of what Bruce Lee trained in, saying he had far too much muscle and that it was only developed for the films. They did mention punches coming from the hip, and tricep. They said they actively made sure they did not get big biceps and trained the tricep well, saying the bicep reduce performance and "fought against" the tricep.

That is martial arts though, they had another program to determine the most effective style, with pro boxers and martial artists of different techniques, the boxer came out WAY above the rest for punching style, i.e. could inflict more damage/power- had them hitting a load cell device.

I think tysons bicep was 16" and holyfields was only 15 or 15.5"

cowzerp

A boxers punch starts at the toe and twists right through the body, toe turns then knee has to twist freeing up your hip and then onto obliques and abdominals continuing the twist and lastly the shoulder and arm extends followed by a turning of the forearm-this type of punch is not possible in most martial arts due to there stance which is not conductive to punching and usually more designed for kicking..

Roper

Chime... Muscles make you slower is a myth, obviously, or sprinters would be skinny. I think people confuse weights with bodybuilding. A bodybuilder's workout is no good for anything except bodybuilding, and has no place in sports performance. If you do a standard isolation type body builders workout, you will probably get slower.

A good fighter's strength programme will allow you to get strong and explosive. Doing the regular 8-10 rep stuff isn't really conducive to punching power. I hate to harp on about it but crossfit style workouts really are the way to go. Although if I had 5 hours a week to train as a boxer, I'd do 5 hours boxing. If I had more like 10 hours, then I'd do 8 boxing and 2 strength training.

johnathan woss

I'm not sure "crossfit style" workouts are the best for building power, although they are great for conditioning and building anaerobic endurance.

Khannie

rubadub wrote: »

That is martial arts though, they had another program to determine the most effective style, with pro boxers and martial artists of different techniques, the boxer came out WAY above the rest for punching style, i.e. could inflict more damage/power- had them hitting a load cell device.

Just want to point out that the boxer was also (by far) the biggest of the participants. It was about as scientific as a drunken argument about religion IMO. Terrible documentary.


edit:

Roper wrote: »

Although if I had 5 hours a week to train as a boxer, I'd do 5 hours boxing. If I had more like 10 hours, then I'd do 8 boxing and 2 strength training.

Interesting. Interesting.

<insert chin rubbing here>

edit: What if you had, say, 12. Would you stick with an 80:20 ratio?

t-ha

I don't think most people can keep just doing more and more strength training & keep getting improved benefit. Three or Four 30-45min sessions a week would be loads regardless of how much time you had to train/recover.

Regarding the muscle = slower thing, I think that carrying weight that's not helping you perform any better is likely to slow you down & that would include fat (obviously) and any muscle components you don't use in fighting (i.e. if you train 3*10 slow & controlled reps you're likely to build up significant sarcoplasmic mass in your muscles & possibly more importantly not develop the nervous system to get better at creating maximal power or speed, so you could do without alot of the muscle mass you're carrying and still have the same power output).

Anyway, probably getting into minutia here - I think the best thing for sports performance is to train for performance. I.e. If you want to be stronger, then get stronger. If you want to be able to jump higher and be more explosive, train speed, power & plyometrics. If you want muscular endurance, train for it. At the end of all of that, whatever muscle mass you're carrying is what your body figures it needs to be able to perform the way you want it to.

Colm_OReilly

Man, it's been a while since I've been on here!

A few quick things (I'm jet lagged and delirious)

Hanley's advice is on the ball imo.

jonathon woss - what's a better prescription.

At low hours, like Roper said, sport specific training is where it's at for performance enhancement. But after that, most people neglect to work on their conditioning. They focus mainly on their sport training, and it reaches diminishing returns. I see this a lot in jitz, where people will always look to roll longer, where if they put in a weights/conditioning session instead, and worked harder for their time on the mats, they'd get a lot more.

Colm
-Nicole said I was strong

g'em

Colm_OReilly wrote: »

-Nicole said I was strong

Sweet

Dragan

Colm_OReilly wrote: »

Colm
-Nicole said I was strong

:mad: <

---

this is me hating you

Vegeta

Obviously out of the loop here but who the fcuk is Nicole??

Other than my ma of course

Dragan

Vegeta wrote: »

Obviously out of the loop here but who the fcuk is Nicole??

One of the higher ups in Crossfit HQ. A Crossfitters to the core and hot as hell.

She is one of the tiny girls regularly used to out OHS the bigger guys who walk in like they have it all figured out.

g'em

Vegeta wrote: »

Obviously out of the loop here but who the fcuk is Nicole??

The resident Crossfit hottie

Vegeta

Dragan wrote: »

One of the higher ups in Crossfit HQ. A Crossfitters to the core and hot as hell.

She is one of the tiny girls regularly used to out OHS the bigger guys who walk in like they have it all figured out.

Ah yes, when I watch the crossfit ladies lift weights at an intensity that I could only dream of at the moment I feel very very humble.

Thanks for the pic g'em


now I have a follow on question

Colm, while training with her did you find the erection hindered your form??

walt0r

Nice abs are no good without a pair of titties.

JayRoc

walt0r wrote: »

Nice abs are no good without a pair of titties.

Constructive!
No, wait....the other thing. Talking bollocks, that's it.


OT- a proper weights routine quite simply cannot fail to aid a fighter's performance. Far too many have ignored weights, to their detriment in my opinion.

Bo Malicious

Absolute Zero> hey. Tyson was known for not doing weights in the earlier part of his career. He did do lots of particularly heavy bag work and lots of body weight excercises - this method worked well for him during during his rise to the top. Sometimes simple can be better...

Might be worth incorporating in some squats to try and strenghten around the glutes - as previously mentioned its the twisting, coiling up like a spring before unloading is where a punch gets it power. As you may guess, building up your squat would be good but body weight excercises would be a good way to start.

Personally, if nothing but out of curiosity Id recommend you read up a little on High Intensity Interval training. Its very popular in MMA - helps promote fat loss whilst maintaining strength through the use of high intensity blasts of excercise. (not the best option for someone just starting out, if thats the case Id say hold off until perhaps you build up a good base level of fitness first.)

Hope that gives you a few ideas..

johnathan woss

Lifting moderate weights explosively for low reps, with long rest periods is the best method for improving explosive strength from what I've read.

Colm_OReilly

The Shane postulates that Nicole was being condescending. I was doing muscle ups at the time. Later she commented on my shorts.

Dragan

Colm_OReilly wrote: »

The Shane postulates that Nicole was being condescending. I was doing muscle ups at the time. Later she commented on my shorts.

TheShane was just jealous!

Don't believe the hype dude!

Dragan
- believing the hype

Dragan

walt0r wrote: »

Nice abs are no good without a pair of titties.

Much like internet access is no good without some basic human intelligence.

Getting tired of these posts walt0r.

Colm_OReilly

Dragan wrote: »

Much like internet access is no good without some basic human intelligence.

Getting tired of these posts walt0r.

lol!

walt0r

Sorry, I didn't mean to offend.
But with regards to my intelligence you're way off the mark, mate.

xebec

walt0r wrote:

Nice abs are no good without a pair of titties.

walt0r wrote: »

Sorry, I didn't mean to offend.
But with regards to my intelligence you're way off the mark, mate.

He may be wrong about your intelligence, but posts like that one leads to the impression that he's not.

Khannie

Human intelligence != intelligence.

estebancambias

I'd take HER!!!!

TKD SC

Colm_OReilly wrote: »

Later she commented on my shorts.

I can't believe she didn't comment on your beard!!!
That's some growing you've been doing!

Vegeta

xebec wrote: »

He may be wrong about your intelligence, but posts like that one leads to the impression that he's not.

well in walt0r's defence the thread had gone off topic anyway before he posted (porbably my fault) so I cant see how his comment was any worse than all of ours.

Sure his opinion may be different but to question his intelligence just because the dude likes boobs. Bit harsh really

g'em

Vegeta wrote: »

Sure his opinion may be different but to question his intelligence just because the dude likes boobs. Bit harsh really

This is a fitness forum, not a forum to discuss boobs or your personal preference for them, end of.