Aggressive alsation

ChowChow

Hi I don't have a dog - but just looking for a bit of advice on an alsation that lives up the road from us. I regularly walk past the owners house which has a fair amount of road frontage with walls and an electric gate. The dog is very aggressive with any passersby and runs barking torwards the wall. He's able to get his two front paws over the wall but I haven't seem him out on the road yet. It's quite scary as he is only 3-4 metres away or so from my side of the road. I'm also aware of a man with a guide dog who has to walk past most days. Given the alsation is only six months old, I'm wondering is it a matter of time before he's able to get over the wall or is the dog just warning people?
I'm reluctant to approach the owners as they know this is going on (I've seen them call the dog in on occasion). Will the dog pound intervene in this case as the dog is still on private property?

EGAR

If the dog poses a nuisance to the public regardless of whether or not he is on private property, then yes, the dogwarden must investigate. I, however, would prefer the direct approach of the owners. Maybe a little chat would solve the problem?

michelleans

If he can get his paws up on it, he can get over it if he wants to.

You say he is 6 months old. This is a great time to approach the owners and ask them to do something about the behaviour. He is still young and the behaviour can be fairly easily changed with proper training, socialisation, and supervision in the garden.

Maybe try talking to the owners and explain the situation? Maybe they just don't know how to deal with it?

deaddonkey

maybe the dog is defending his territory and telling you to keep away, cos, y'know, like, that's kinda what they're meant to do, y'dig?

dogs warn people off their territory constantly, that doesn't mean they hurt anyone, right?

ChowChow

dogs warn people off their territory constantly, that doesn't mean they hurt anyone, right?

Well I've being bitten by an alsation before - outside his house - mind you the gate was open and he was free to roam.

If he can get his paws up on it, he can get over it if he wants to.

I had my suspicions this was case, I guess I'll see how it goes...

deaddonkey

ChowChow wrote: »

Well I've being bitten by an alsation before - outside his house - mind you the gate was open and he was free to roam.

I've been attacked by a labrador wandering around without a lead
I don't presume that every labrador I see is going to go for me. what's your point?
I've been bitten by a jack russell. I don't look at a jack russell and presume i'm about to get snapped at.

Your logic makes no sense. You've been bitten by one german shepherd, and you see another german shepherd bark and you presume you're going to get bitten if he can get at you.
The Dog is telling you to keep off his territory. You do just that and it'll be fine, and complain if the dog goes over the wall and then goes for you.

And btw, if the guide dog in question is worth his salt, another dog barking at him shouldn't bother him in the slightest, guide dogs are solid, they have to be. a guide dog that cowers away from a dog that barks at him is no use. a watch dog that cowers away when someone approaches the house is no use.

michelleans

Deaddonkey - I think the OP is making the point that it's not just simple defense of territory by that example and I agree.

I have a german shepherd. He defends his territory when he needs to. He woke me up on a few occassions barking loudly at the window and running to the door. I let him out and whatever (whomever) he had been barking at, had gone. This to me, is defense of territory and pack.

When he was outside during the day, he would lie down on top of a ridge overlooking the garden and watch people going by. When the children walked past and even when they threw pebbles at him from the gate, he still ignored them, no bark, no get up and go - unless of course I told him to. He wasn't barking at them because they were not a threat. If he had ever started that type of behaviour he would have been told no and brought inside.

This type of guarding of territory, while it may not be aggression yet, can easily lead to it.

Also, it is polite and common sense to not allow a dog to bark and scare people who walk by your property..

It is not about the breed of dog it is about the socialisation and training it receives. My boy is this way because I have socialised and trained him properly.

lurchin along

There was an incident in the UK some years ago this reminds me of.A labrador that was behing an 8' diamond mesh fence was in the habit of barking at passersby.It was ordered to be PTS by the court(under the DDA)because people FELT threatened by the dogs behaviour.It didn't matter that the dog couldn't possibly hurt anyone as it was safely contained,the dog died.

kerrysgold

my god, what a disgrace (about the poor lab) whoever the idiot judge was that ordered that should have been pts!

as for the Alsatian, you should probably talk to the owners. if the dog can get over the wall, then that's no good for his own safety, and they shouldn't be letting their dog behave aggressively anyway. (if he is being aggressive, maybe he's just barking, he is only a young dog after all) He should be being socialised so strangers don't bother him.

Saruman

Next time, try stopping.. look him in the eyes and show him your hand and let him sniff it... keep it far enough away that he can not bite you. See if he calms down after getting a good sniff then be on your way. If he looks like he is trying to attack you though then contact the owner.

kerrysgold

I've always thought looking a dog in the eye would make it seem to the dog that you were being confrontational. trying to make friends with him is a good idea though. If the owners didn't mind, maybe you could bring him some treats or something.

Saruman

Looking anything in the eye is confrontational but with a dog, it needs to know that humans are at the top of the food chain and a leader of the pack. You know the saying, animals sense fear.. so do not show any.

Freddie59

kerrysgold wrote: »

my god, what a disgrace (about the poor lab) whoever the idiot judge was that ordered that should have been pts!

as for the Alsatian, you should probably talk to the owners. if the dog can get over the wall, then that's no good for his own safety, and they shouldn't be letting their dog behave aggressively anyway. (if he is being aggressive, maybe he's just barking, he is only a young dog after all) He should be being socialised so strangers don't bother him.

Well done Judge! Take a bow. It's a pity there are not more like you. The problem with some dog owners (particularly ones who purchase, then subsequently neglect large breeds) is the 'small man with the big dog' mentality. This dog looks hard, by default so do I:rolleyes:. Plonkers.:mad:

summer_ina_bowl

Saruman wrote: »

look him in the eyes

IF the dog is potentially aggressive then this is probably not a great idea. If you have the strength, courage and know how to put a big chap like a 6 month alstation in its place then all well and good, but confronting dominant behaviour in dogs is dangerous at the best of times and tbh, i wouldn't be reccomending an inexperienced non-dog owner to try to stare down an unrestrained dog!

daveharnett

Yes, he can clear the wall with ease, he just doesn't know it yet.

For a start, this dog needs to learn that his territory stops at the front gate.
I'd sugguest that you approach the owners, in the nicest way possible. They may not realise that he is already starting to bother people.

He is still young enough to be thought - action needs to be taken quickly. The alternative is that he becomes either a nuisance or a danger for life.

daveharnett

Freddie59 wrote: »

Well done Judge! Take a bow. It's a pity there are not more like you.

Totally agree. These are very intelligent animals, and can make great pets with proper training. Without, they can become dangerous monsters who need to spend their whole miserable life restrained. Those who show such low regard for animals in their care should not have the right to keep them.

Freddie59

daveharnett wrote: »

Totally agree. These are very intelligent animals, and can make great pets with proper training. Without, they can become dangerous monsters who need to spend their whole miserable life restrained. Those who show such low regard for animals in their care should not have the right to keep them.

Indeed Dave. One word of advice. Be careful before approaching the neighbours. Even the most reasonable people become completely mad sometimes when it comes to Fido.;)

cowzerp

Freddie59 wrote: »

Well done Judge! Take a bow. It's a pity there are not more like you. The problem with some dog owners (particularly ones who purchase, then subsequently neglect large breeds) is the 'small man with the big dog' mentality. This dog looks hard, by default so do I:rolleyes:. Plonkers.:mad:

Your an idiot and a troll too, putting a dog down for barking at strangers is hideous and was a crime to nature..your the reason why dogs get a bad rap.

kerrysgold

I can't believe you think putting a dog down for doing nothing wrong, nor being able to attack anyone anyway, even if he wanted to, was a good idea?! :O

daveharnett

kerrysgold wrote: »

I can't believe you think putting a dog down for doing nothing wrong, nor being able to attack anyone anyway, even if he wanted to, was a good idea?! :O

Passers-by felt intimidated by the dog. This (to me) means that the dog's behaviour said "If i get out, i WILL attack you".

Imagine raising children next door to such an animal.

If an dogis agressive to the point where it will threaten people who are outside the owners property, it is a menace. To say that it's ok because it can't get out is neither here nor there.

peasant

daveharnett wrote: »

Passers-by felt intimidated by the dog. This (to me) means that the dog's behaviour said "If i get out, i WILL attack you".

Imagine raising children next door to such an animal.

If an dogis agressive to the point where it will threaten people who are outside the owners property, it is a menace. To say that it's ok because it can't get out is neither here nor there.

oooohhh ...won't somebody pleeez think of the tildren ....

What a load of rubbish.

A dog's territory doesn't end at a fence or a gate or some line in the sand. What it can see/overlook is "his" ...that's natural behaviour.


What isn't natural, is for dogs to be corralled in handkerchief sized gardens and to be left up to their own devices all day long.

If a dog is making a nuisance of itself by excessive barking, it's the owners responsibility to keep it calm(er) and not societies responsibilty to have it killed.

As for the dog in the OP ...have words with the owner, state that you're worried the dog might jump over the wall ...if needs be demand that a fence be put up some ways back from the wall/road ...problem solved.

Freddie59

cowzerp wrote: »

Your an idiot and a troll too, putting a dog down for barking at strangers is hideous and was a crime to nature..your the reason why dogs get a bad rap.

No you moron. The reason the dog was put down was because of irresponsible owners (again) and those like you who think it's OK for these beasts to live in housing estates. Far from a troll I have been involved in several of these threads over the last few months on boards.ie Housing estates are built for people - not animals. Again, well done Judge.:D

Freddie59

peasant wrote: »

oooohhh ...won't somebody pleeez think of the tildren ....

What a load of rubbish.

A dog's territory doesn't end at a fence or a gate or some line in the sand. What it can see/overlook is "his" ...that's natural behaviour.


What isn't natural, is for dogs to be corralled in handkerchief sized gardens and to be left up to their own devices all day long.

If a dog is making a nuisance of itself by excessive barking, it's the owners responsibility to keep it calm(er) and not societies responsibilty to have it killed.

As for the dog in the OP ...have words with the owner, state that you're worried the dog might jump over the wall ...if needs be demand that a fence be put up some ways back from the wall/road ...problem solved.

Problem there is what are your alternatives when the owner says 'f**k off'?
Your belittling of the comment on children is nothing short of scandalous. I'm assuming you do not have children yourself.

'Problem solved'. What planet are you on? Have you ever even encountered some of these irresponsible owners? Your attitude is the same one that leads to dozens of children being mauled and mutilated each year.

Cop yourself on man.

peasant

Freddie59 wrote: »

Your attitude is the same one that leads to dozens of children being mauled and mutilated each year.

Cop yourself on man.

Who is taking the sensationalist, alarmist "think of the children"-leap from a dog barking from behind a wall to dozens of mauled and mutilated (you forgot "savaged" ) children here?

...t'is you, my friend ...not me

So you cop yourself on... man ...


As for your question what if the owner tells you to feck off ...that's what a dog warden is for.

Dyr

Freddie59 wrote: »

No you moron.

oohh personal abuse, i feel the ban hammer a looming

on a side note, would you call cowzerp a moron to his face, and if so can i be there when you do?

Freddie59

Bambi wrote: »

oohh personal abuse, i feel the ban hammer a looming

on a side note, would you call cowzerp a moron to his face, and if so can i be there when you do?

If there's a ban it better apply two people. I would call anyone displaying that tone a moron. Where do you think you are - a schoolyard? Although, given the comments by that poster and peasant, it adequately demonstrates the contempt for human life shown in this thread - for what? n abused animal? Of course the dog can't jump over the wall.....FFS:rolleyes:

peasant

Freddie59 wrote: »

Although, given the comments by ...peasant, it adequately demonstrates the contempt for human life shown in this thread - for what? n abused animal? Of course the dog can't jump over the wall.....FFS:rolleyes:

How about you come back down to earth for a while, hmm?

So far, we've got one dog barking over a wall that someone is afraid of.

No abused dogs, no risk to human life in sight anywhere.

Stop being such a drama queen.

Valid tips on how to deal with the situation were given ...so calm down, willya

Freddie59

peasant wrote: »

Who is taking the sensationalist, alarmist "think of the children"-leap from a dog barking from behind a wall to dozens of mauled and mutilated (you forgot "savaged" ) children here?

...t'is you, my friend ...not me

So you cop yourself on... man ...


As for your question what if the owner tells you to feck off ...that's what a dog warden is for.

I have been in the situation - have you? Wardens have limited powers at best. Cop yourself on indeed. And appreciate the value of human life vs a dumb animal. And dumb owers.

peasant

Freddie59 wrote: »

I have been in the situation - have you? Wardens have limited powers at best. Cop yourself on indeed. And appreciate the value of human life vs a dumb animal. And dumb owers.

If you or one of yours have been attacked by a dog, then I am very sorry
for the pain and trauma it must have caused.

Nonetheless, I don't find your alarmist posts very helpful.
One barking dog does not equate to a dead or attacked child, so please keep it within persepctive.




On a more general note ...I am sick and tired of these tabloid-like statements like:
Imagine raising children next door to such an animal.

Anybody ever imagine what it's like trying to raise dogs next to "such" children?

Little gurriers that taunt the dog over the fence, throw rocks and fireworks at it, leave the gate open to let it out and kick it when it does get out?

Ohhh ..I can hear the outcry now ...but, but, but ...not ALL children are like that.

EXACTLY!

Not ALL dogs are furious biests either ... so let's get real.

Freddie59

peasant wrote: »

If you or one of yours have been attacked by a dog, then I am very sorry
for the pain and trauma it must have caused.

Nonetheless, I don't find your alarmist posts very helpful.
One barking dog does not equate to a dead or attacked child, so please keep it within persepctive.




On a more general note ...I am sick and tired of these tabloid-like statements like:
Imagine raising children next door to such an animal.

Anybody ever imagine what it's like trying to raise dogs next to "such" children?

Little gurriers that taunt the dog over the fence, throw rocks and fireworks at it, leave the gate open to let it out and kick it when it does get out?

Ohhh ..I can hear the outcry now ...but, but, but ...not ALL children are like that.

EXACTLY!

Not ALL dogs are furious biests either ... so let's get real.

I thought it was only in the UK where beasts were placed above humans in the scheme of things. it obviously has made its way across the water.

peasant

ahh ..there's no talking to you...

Have a very nice Christmas anyway

kerrysgold

Freddie59 wrote: »

No you moron. The reason the dog was put down was because of irresponsible owners (again) and those like you who think it's OK for these beasts to live in housing estates. Far from a troll I have been involved in several of these threads over the last few months on boards.ie Housing estates are built for people - not animals. Again, well done Judge.:D

Plenty of people keep animals that live on estates, some even help with rescuing animals.....as long as the dog is walked regularly it doesn't matter that it has a small garden IMO.

and the dog that was put down for BARKING, how was the owner irresponsible? the dog was kept behind an 8' fence! It's not like it was roaming the streets ''mauling children'' and I'd like to see the statistics of all these mauled and mutilated children. I'm sure more children are killed or injured in car accidents every year than there are by the family pooch! and yet nobody thinks that all cars should be banned or turned into a cube at the scrap yard everytime a kid is injured by one!

Freddie59

kerrysgold wrote: »

Plenty of people keep animals that live on estates, some even help with rescuing animals.....as long as the dog is walked regularly it doesn't matter that it has a small garden IMO.

and the dog that was put down for BARKING, how was the owner irresponsible? the dog was kept behind an 8' fence! It's not like it was roaming the streets ''mauling children'' and I'd like to see the statistics of all these mauled and mutilated children. I'm sure more children are killed or injured in car accidents every year than there are by the family pooch! and yet nobody thinks that all cars should be banned or turned into a cube at the scrap yard everytime a kid is injured by one!

So you believe dogs, in confined gardens in housing estates, have the right to bark 24/7 and make people's lives a misery?:rolleyes: Sometimes children killed by motor vehicles are killed accidentally.

However, someone leaving what is essentially a WOLF unfed, uncared for, and unmuzzled.....that ISN'T an accident? It's amazing how far people will go to defend moronic stupidity of the highest order.

The logic you attempt to apply to your argument defies belief.

kerrysgold

If a dog isn't left outside, gets plenty of attention and goes for regular walks I don't see why it should be able to live in a house with a smaller garden. lots of dogs also get taken for runs in the woods, at the beach etc. However, if someone leaves their dog in a small garden, isolated and unexcersized, where the dog has to bark constantly trying to get attention or relieve boredom, then IMO the dog should be taken off them!

and dog's have been domesticated for thousands of years, wolves are wild.
If a dog is unfed and uncared for, that is cruelty to animals, but it doesn't mean the dog will turn into a savage...... I don't get your logic either? unfed = vicious?

And why should all dogs be muzzled even if they have never shown any aggression?

~Thalia~

Freddie59 wrote: »

So you believe dogs, in confined gardens in housing estates, have the right to bark 24/7 and make people's lives a misery?:rolleyes: Sometimes children killed by motor vehicles are killed accidentally.

However, someone leaving what is essentially a WOLF unfed, uncared for, and unmuzzled.....that ISN'T an accident? It's amazing how far people will go to defend moronic stupidity of the highest order.

The logic you attempt to apply to your argument defies belief.

Where is this unfed uncared for 'wolf' then?

My dog is an Alsatian, she barks at passers by our house from inside the gate. she is letting me know there is someone there and she is defendign her territory. She is none of the things you mentioned. I would also like to know where all these children you mentioned are being savaged and mutilated etc?

I think most of us on here as responsible dog owners find the tone of your posts a little offputting and its clear from them that you obviously have an inherent dislike of dogs and that's normally not that well received here. Naturally you are entitled to your opinion but I'd wager that most of the regular posters on this section of the boards would be a lot more informed when it comes to dogs and their care and it may make sense for you to listen to what people are saying and maybe take it on board.

Thank you.

Freddie59

~Thalia~ wrote: »

Where is this unfed uncared for 'wolf' then?

My dog is an Alsatian, she barks at passers by our house from inside the gate. she is letting me know there is someone there and she is defendign her territory. She is none of the things you mentioned. I would also like to know where all these children you mentioned are being savaged and mutilated etc?

I think most of us on here as responsible dog owners find the tone of your posts a little offputting and its clear from them that you obviously have an inherent dislike of dogs and that's normally not that well received here. Naturally you are entitled to your opinion but I'd wager that most of the regular posters on this section of the boards would be a lot more informed when it comes to dogs and their care and it may make sense for you to listen to what people are saying and maybe take it on board.

Thank you.

For your information I care for two separate breeds of dogs on a regular basis. Unlike some of the 'regular posters' you mention I seem to care for them a little bit better. This barking of your dog - how long does it go on for? Is it day/night or both? Have you spared a thought for people on shiftwork who may not be able to sleep because of it?

The problem here is that people seem to be more wrapped up in their dog's lives and are oblivious to the impact of the behaviour of both them and their 'pets' on others.

Here's some obviously 'responsible' owners:

http://www.halifaxcourier.co.uk/news/Boy-savaged-by-bull-mastiff.3591589.jp?CommentPage=2&CommentPageLength=10

http://homework.blogs.ie/2007/08/

What about this one Peasant?

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/when-children-laughing-at-play-began-to-scream-695604.html

And while these are not in Ireland these reports are testament to the 'Little Man With The Big Dog' mentality so prevelant here:

http://www.workingpitbull.com/fatalbook.htm

peasant

Freddie59 wrote: »

For your information I care for two separate breeds of dogs on a regular basis. Unlike some of the 'regular posters' you mention I seem to care for them a little bit better.

Well then, Freddie 59, if you do care for dogs on a regular basis and do it "better" than everybody else...

Why don't you let the poeple here partake in some of your wisdom and experience to be better carers of their dogs instead of going off on a rant and posting horror stories?

Don't you think that you could be much more helpful to people (and dogs! ) that way?

kerrysgold

What breeds of dog's do you care for? And what makes you think that you are ''better'' at caring for dog's than anyone else on this board? A little arrogant and a bit of a sweeping statement, don't you think?

~Thalia~

Freddie59 wrote: »

For your information I care for two separate breeds of dogs on a regular basis. Unlike some of the 'regular posters' you mention I seem to care for them a little bit better. This barking of your dog - how long does it go on for? Is it day/night or both? Have you spared a thought for people on shiftwork who may not be able to sleep because of it?

The problem here is that people seem to be more wrapped up in their dog's lives and are oblivious to the impact of the behaviour of both them and their 'pets' on others.

Here's some obviously 'responsible' owners:

http://www.halifaxcourier.co.uk/news/Boy-savaged-by-bull-mastiff.3591589.jp?CommentPage=2&CommentPageLength=10

http://homework.blogs.ie/2007/08/

What about this one Peasant?

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/when-children-laughing-at-play-began-to-scream-695604.html

And while these are not in Ireland these reports are testament to the 'Little Man With The Big Dog' mentality so prevelant here:

http://www.workingpitbull.com/fatalbook.htm

What breeds do you care for on a regular basis?

I'm fortunate enough not to have to 'spare a thought for' people on shift work because I live in the middle of nowhere and don't have any close neighbours.

You appear to have an axe to grind in my opinion.

lightening

Classic drama here, a thread starts off with a German Shepard barking and half way through you get this!!

Freddie59 wrote: »

Your belittling of the comment on children is nothing short of scandalous. I'm assuming you do not have children yourself.

'Problem solved'. What planet are you on? Have you ever even encountered some of these irresponsible owners? Your attitude is the same one that leads to dozens of children being mauled and mutilated each year.

PC gone mad.

save the trildren!

Freddie59

lightening wrote: »

Classic drama here, a thread starts off with a German Shepard barking and half way through you get this!!



PC gone mad.

save the trildren!

A clone of the others I see.:rolleyes: You'll get sense one day.

lightening

Freddie59 wrote: »

You'll get sense one day.

Ah, in fairness Freddie, its a dog barking in its garden. No kids being mauled by savage dogs. Your letting your imagination run away.

ztoical

you are always going to have people who don't take care of dogs correctly, who treat them badly, some even train them to be agressive for dog fighting and other awful "sports". If a dog is kept in to small a space, not walked, not feed, and is always barking for attention - then the police should be called, not to put the dog down but to take it away from people who are abusing it.

Banning dogs from housing estates and the like is rubbish. A well looked after family dog is a great addition to any household. Having a pet [dog, cat whatever] is good company for children with learning difficulties, who have trouble making friends, who are shy etc. Its good lesson for them to learn to look after the animal. For the elderly having a dog or cat around is great company for them. My dad past away recently and I live a good hour drive away from me my mum and I worry about her being on her own but she has two dogs [a springer and a dalmation/lab mix] with her. She was told me they have been a great comfort to her when she comes home in the evenings.

I lived in new york for years and loads of people have dogs, big and small ones in apartment blocks there. There are dogs runs all over the city people take their dogs to so they can run around. In the four years I lived there I never heard of a child being attacked in my area by a dog. I'm not saying no child has ever been attacked by a dog in new york but I've never seen the issued raised of banning dogs there.

We have always had dogs and growing up I thought it was odd for a household not to have a dog, or a cat or some sort of pet. My mum is a doctor and when I was young her office was the front half of our house so we always had lots of people in our house. 99% of them were fine but you'd get the 1% of drug addicts come in and cause trouble. one of them climbed our back wall one evening, looking to break in and steal drugs. I was around 5 and playing with my coursin in the garden. When he went to move past us our dog stood in front of him and showed her teeth. She didn't bark, just showed her teeth and stood between him and us at all times. She never moved towards him. The guy freaked and my dad heard him and came out.

We had two dogs when moved from the country into town and we couldn't keep two so we gave one to my uncle who has a farm. Couple of years later my uncle fell and broke his leg very badly while out in the fields. The dog stayed with him, keeping him warm. When it started getting dark, the dog ran to the nearest road and barked and barked until a car stopped, he then showed the people in the car where my uncle was. Dumb beasts my ass.

People who don't grow up with animals I find end up being nervous adults who freak out over the smallest thing. A friend of mine who was never around any animals growing up took her daughter to central park zoo where they have sheep that you can feed. She freaked out when she saw parents giving food to their kids to give the sheep "o my god that animal will eat their hands off" Needless to say her daughter didn't get to feed the sheep.

Sorry this has rambled all over the place but the main point is if a dog is treated correctly, it will be well behaved and no danger to anyone. If you feel a dog is a danger to others speak to the owners. If you think they are abusing the dog, call the police.

lurchin along

Good luck getting the cops out to an abused dog-it's hard enuff to find a station that's open bless 'em!
Anyhoo-in fullest agreement about the necessity of bringing kids up with animals.A nervous child is a bitten child..
Perhaps bitten by the man eating sheep you mention?
Is there no bottom depth to the ignorance of the Gen Pop?
A sheep that bites,really...where had that mother been raised-in a bubble?

Freddie59

ztoical wrote: »

Banning dogs from housing estates and the like is rubbish.

It is the answer. Police will not deal with you regarding neglected or nuisance dogs. You have to go to the Civil Court in order to pursue this. Again, it is amazing to see the attitude displayed towards children (or humans) on this thread in favour of dogs.

Given that you say your Mother is a doctor I thought someone like you would have had more common sense.

No-one will dispute that a well-reared dog will gel with a family. I have done so myself. What we are discussing is idiotic and neglectful "owners" who seem more concerned about their "pets" than their neighbours and do not see the immediate danger to their own families. A juvenile outlook if ever there was one.

If even FURTHER proof was needed:

http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30100-1298626,00.html

http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/pet-rottweiler-mauls-nineweekold-baby-to-death/2007/12/28/1198778704713.html

Pets indeed.:rolleyes: One child dragged from a cot and another from the arms of a child. And we have people here arguing that you needn't worry about an Alsatian barking over a wall which he can easily scale.

Grow up people. And come in to the real world.

Freddie59

lurchin along wrote: »

Good luck getting the cops out to an abused dog-it's hard enuff to find a station that's open bless 'em!
Anyhoo-in fullest agreement about the necessity of bringing kids up with animals.A nervous child is a bitten child..
Perhaps bitten by the man eating sheep you mention?
Is there no bottom depth to the ignorance of the Gen Pop?
A sheep that bites,really...where had that mother been raised-in a bubble?

For God's sake man. What planet are you on? Ignorance of the gen pop. Yeah.:rolleyes: Ignorance alright, but not of the gen pop.;)

ztoical

Freddie59 wrote: »

It is the answer. Police will not deal with you regarding neglected or nuisance dogs. You have to go to the Civil Court in order to pursue this. Again, it is amazing to see the attitude displayed towards children (or humans) on this thread in favour of dogs.

No-one will dispute that a well-reared dog will gel with a family. I have done so myself. What we are discussing is idiotic and neglectful "owners" who seem more concerned about their "pets" than their neighbours and do not see the immediate danger to their own fa,ilies. A juvenile outlook if ever there was one.

If even FURTHER proof was needed:

http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30100-1298626,00.html

http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/pet-rottweiler-mauls-nineweekold-baby-to-death/2007/12/28/1198778704713.html

Pets indeed.:rolleyes: One child dragged from a cot and another from the arms of a child. And we have people here arguing that you needn't worry about an Alsatian barking over a wall which he can easily scale.

Grow up people. And come in to the real world.

first off who lets a seven years carry a one year old around without watching them? The 7 year old had to run upstairs to get the 16 years old? where the hell are the adults? Also who lets a dog wander into a babies room on its own? I'm sorry it is awful to loose a child but its very black and white to simple just blame the dog. The dogs in both cases will most likely be destroyed if they haven't already but those parents should be brought up on charges of child indangerment as well.

honey why are we even bothering with this - you have your veiw and its pretty clear you are not going to alter it and others on this bored have theres and its clear they are not going to change either.

You have linked to examples of dog attacked but I ask you compare the statistics of the number of children attacked by dogs against the actual number of dogs, its the same argument for handguns in the US or having pools or ponds in your garden.

You may have had something happen to your or someone close to make you hold this point of veiw but I've had dogs all my life and have never been hurt by one but I've been mugged in dublin once, and my car broken into twice and a man tired to sexual attack me at a recent music festival [thankfully my friends were near by and stoppped him] So yeah maybe I am biased in favour of dogs but I feel no treat from them.

I've seen first hand the benfit on children with ADHA and other learning difficulties that having a pet has. I've seen dogs helping the blind, deaf and disabled. My neighbour on my housing estate is in a wheel chair, her house has been modified to help her and she has a helper dog to aid her with picking up items and the like - should that dog be banned from the estate?

ztoical

Freddie59 wrote: »

For God's sake man. What planet are you on? Ignorance of the gen pop. Yeah.:rolleyes: Ignorance alright, but not of the gen pop.;)

I don't belive you read the entire post he was commenting on. It was about a woman freaking out that her child would be mauled by a sheep in the central park petting zoo.

Freddie59

ztoical wrote: »

first off who lets a seven years carry a one year old around without watching them? The 7 year old had to run upstairs to get the 16 years old? where the hell are the adults? Also who lets a dog wander into a babies room on its own? I'm sorry it is awful to loose a child but its very black and white to simple just blame the dog. The dogs in both cases will most likely be destroyed if they haven't already but those parents should be brought up on charges of child indangerment as well.

honey why are we even bothering with this - you have your veiw and its pretty clear you are not going to alter it and others on this bored have theres and its clear they are not going to change either.

You have linked to examples of dog attacked but I ask you compare the statistics of the number of children attacked by dogs against the actual number of dogs, its the same argument for handguns in the US or having pools or ponds in your garden.

You may have had something happen to your or someone close to make you hold this point of veiw but I've had dogs all my life and have never been hurt by one but I've been mugged in dublin once, and my car broken into twice and a man tired to sexual attack me at a recent music festival [thankfully my friends were near by and stoppped him] So yeah maybe I am biased in favour of dogs but I feel no treat from them.

I've seen first hand the benfit on children with ADHA and other learning difficulties that having a pet has. I've seen dogs helping the blind, deaf and disabled. My neighbour on my housing estate is in a wheel chair, her house has been modified to help her and she has a helper dog to aid her with picking up items and the like - should that dog be banned from the estate?

There can be exceptions as you have pointed out. These, as had been repeated ad nauseum, are dogs that have repsonsible owners. What we are talking about are idiot owners - those who place dogs above humans in the scheme of things.

Are you one of these?

I must add that your almost casual dismissal of the deaths of two children beggars belief. Would I be correct in stating that you have no children yourself?

Freddie59

ztoical wrote: »

I don't belive you read the entire post he was commenting on. It was about a woman freaking out that her child would be mauled by a sheep in the central park petting zoo.

Yawn.:rolleyes:

ztoical

Freddie59 wrote: »

There can be exceptions as you have pointed out. These, as had been repeated ad nauseum, are dogs that have repsonsible owners. What we are talking about are idiot owners - those who place dogs above humans in the scheme of things.

Are you one of these?

I must add that your almost casual dismissal of the deaths of two children beggars belief. Would I be correct in stating that you have no children yourself?

your previous post came across as very damn them all to hell, no one should have dogs so sorry if I have became a little defensive towards that. The vast majority of dog owners out there are good owners who take good care of their dogs.

Its not a causal dismissal at all - i feel very sorry for those parents as they will have to spend the rest of their lives dealing with the aftermath of this. While we sit here and debat back and forth about the dog they will be left with the guilt of "what if I had...." Also the grandparents who owned the dog will feel guilt for the rest of their lives. In the case of the 16 and 7 year old being there those two children will be scared for life. So I feel very sorry for something that doesn't just effect the parents but ripples out and effects many many more.

But its is hard as an outsider to not be judgemental of the situation. We all do it when we read those kind of news reports. When you hear of abuse cases that went on for years, people think how could the parents not know? When you hear of a child shooting itself with a gun, why had the parents the gun around where the child could get at it?

When I read about the 7 year old carrying the one year old out to a dog while the only thing close to an adult is a 16 year old upstairs, yes I do think, where the hell where the parents? There are so many other things that could have happened to that child without the parents there. The 7 year old could have dropped the baby, could have feed it something it shouldn't have, if it could get out into the back garden could he have gone out the front door and wander into the street? Christ at xmas this year my friends 4 year old put a pillow over the new born baby because he was jealous of it, you can never EVER leave a child on its own like that.

And whats with the statment about my having children - is that stating that only those with children can understand and be sympathetic? I had a miscarriage last year so no I don't have children right now.