American bias/cheating...

megadodge

Normally watching a fight I am very calm and just enjoy the boxing but I was roaring at the TV Saturday as I was livid over the pathetic performance of referee Joe Cortez in the Hatton/Mayweather fight.

I would prefer incompetence any day over plain, good old-fashioned cheating !

This has been building up with me for a while having watched American officials favour their boxers over non-US boxers for several years now and yet they have the bloody cheek to complain about others fighting in their home countries and expect all top boxers around the world to come to the land of win-at-all-costs that has produced Carl Lewis, Barry Bonds, Lance Armstrong, Marion Jones... the list goes on and on.

Anyone who knows the rules of boxing will have noticed how Mayweather ducks to his right way below the waist (a foul) in all his fights, but in this one it was just constant for 4 solid rounds and allied to the fact that he extends the fouling to hugging Hatton for dear life in order to prevent him from working inside, it has to lead to serious questions about the officiating.

What did the ref do ? He kept badgering HATTON !!! The very best he could come up with was bringing the two of them together to talk to them - when there was ONLY ONE PERSON FOULING CONSTANTLY - Mayweather !!!

I have absolutely no doubt that this along with the elbows and forearms being pushed in his face ended up completely frustrating Hatton far more than a very uncomfortable looking Mayweather who was only throwing 4-5 punches a round for the first 4-5 rounds.

This eventually led to him losing his cool (foolish but understandable) and leaving himself more open hence being countered cleanly.

The finish was decisive but if it was a closer fairer fight Hatton wouldn't have been frustratingly jumping in trying to end it with one punch.

This was akin to a football match where one side are constantly attacking and are being constantly fouled but none of them are being called by the ref. The fouling side eventually get into the match and are still in it (should be well behind if the fouling was penalised) thanks to the lack of action by the biased ref. The side being stifled with fouls eventually get pissed off and in frustration make a very innocuous foul which in light of what has already gone on is nothing - the result.. a penalty!! They then have to chase the game getting more and more frustrated leaving themselves open to counter attacks which eventually yield more goals.

This officiating was a disgrace !!

prendy

agreed it was dreadfull and he's one of the sports top officials.:eek:
however i dont think it would have made a difference to the outcome..maywether was rarely out of his comfort zone in that fight.

cowzerp

Would not have made a difference as when hatton was allowed inside Mayweather easily beat him on the inside, Different class im afraid..it would of ended earlier if anything.

megadodge

Jaysus Paul, how can you come up with that ?

Hatton wasn't allowed work inside at all - by the ref. Just wasn't.
On the very rare occasions when Mayweather wasn't clinging on, the ref broke them up anyway !
Inside work is the strongest part of his game.
Floyd still didn't look very comfortable in the first 4-5 rounds and that's with all the hassle Hatton was getting from the ref and all the fouling he himself was doing.

I'm still furious over it.

knightmare

I agree that cortez made a b*lls of the close exchanges...but could not agree that hatton would have made a better fight of it had the official been different. I thought it was one of the most one sided fights I ever saw & thought hatton was completely out of his depth.

cowzerp

megadodge wrote: »

Jaysus Paul, how can you come up with that ?

Hatton wasn't allowed work inside at all - by the ref. Just wasn't.

I'm still furious over it.

Cant agree with that, Mayweather did not let hatton work inside, the ref started by breaking it to early but i believe he was just trying to stamp his authority..Hatton needs to drop weight division and fight at his own class.

prendy

hatton even admitted afterwards that he hadnt expected maywether to be as good inside as he was.

The Sparrow

Why does matter whether or not the outcome of the fight would have been different? Surely the point is that we will never know because the officiating was horrendous. I don't understand why ppl are seeking to justify bad refereeing by arguing that it didn't affect the outcome.

It affected my (and most ppls I would guess) enjoyment of the fight and that is all that matters. It was a joke tbh and it is refereeing performances like that which give boxing a bad name.

walshb

I'm telling you, Billy Graham did Hatton no favors by lecturing Cortez in the dressing room on how he wanted Hatton to be allowed fight his kind of fight. Cortez was out to screw Hatton right from the start. But as Paul said, it wouldn't have made much of a difference.
Hatton was not with it on Saturday night, he was lacking confidence and basically he didn't really threaten Floyd at all. He was unusually lethargic and even on the inside, PBF was the winner. All credit to PBF, but if I'm honest, PBF was made look better due to Ricky being simply out of sorts, slow, predictable and I have to admit, out of his weight.....

Khannie

I just watched the fight this morning.

megadodge wrote: »

This officiating was a disgrace !!

Glad I wasn't the only one to think this.

I'm not furious over it or anything because I'm a fair weather boxing fan, but he did dampen what would otherwise have been a better fight. Crackin' end by PBF though.

Running Bing

megadodge wrote: »

Normally watching a fight I am very calm and just enjoy the boxing but I was roaring at the TV Saturday as I was livid over the pathetic performance of referee Joe Cortez in the Hatton/Mayweather fight.

I would prefer incompetence any day over plain, good old-fashioned cheating !

This has been building up with me for a while having watched American officials favour their boxers over non-US boxers for several years now and yet they have the bloody cheek to complain about others fighting in their home countries and expect all top boxers around the world to come to the land of win-at-all-costs that has produced Carl Lewis, Barry Bonds, Lance Armstrong, Marion Jones... the list goes on and on.

Anyone who knows the rules of boxing will have noticed how Mayweather ducks to his right way below the waist (a foul) in all his fights, but in this one it was just constant for 4 solid rounds and allied to the fact that he extends the fouling to hugging Hatton for dear life in order to prevent him from working inside, it has to lead to serious questions about the officiating.

What did the ref do ? He kept badgering HATTON !!! The very best he could come up with was bringing the two of them together to talk to them - when there was ONLY ONE PERSON FOULING CONSTANTLY - Mayweather !!!

I have absolutely no doubt that this along with the elbows and forearms being pushed in his face ended up completely frustrating Hatton far more than a very uncomfortable looking Mayweather who was only throwing 4-5 punches a round for the first 4-5 rounds.

This eventually led to him losing his cool (foolish but understandable) and leaving himself more open hence being countered cleanly.

The finish was decisive but if it was a closer fairer fight Hatton wouldn't have been frustratingly jumping in trying to end it with one punch.

This was akin to a football match where one side are constantly attacking and are being constantly fouled but none of them are being called by the ref. The fouling side eventually get into the match and are still in it (should be well behind if the fouling was penalised) thanks to the lack of action by the biased ref. The side being stifled with fouls eventually get pissed off and in frustration make a very innocuous foul which in light of what has already gone on is nothing - the result.. a penalty!! They then have to chase the game getting more and more frustrated leaving themselves open to counter attacks which eventually yield more goals.

This officiating was a disgrace !!

No it wasnt. Cortez did a good job.

Thank God for Mayweathers sake that he put Hatton down because people would have never accepted a points win:rolleyes:

Ok so early on he was a bit enthuiastic to break things up but he kept the fight flowing nicely.


As for the point deduction he made it clear before the fight that anything intentional would get a point off. Hatton clearly intentionally tried to hit Floyd in the back of the head and got a point taken off simple as that.

Everybody said Mayweather would run or get destoyed on the inside. Well respect to him because he stood toe to toe and beat Hatton on the inside. He was the smarter better boxer no question.


Respect to Hatton, he fought the best in the world at a higher weight were he is clearly the smaller man. He applied loads of pressure and never took a step back. There is no shame in the defeat and he is still a great great fighter who I will continue to support and watch all his fights.

As for Mayweather I think he is unbeatable and deserves to be respected as one of the all time greats. He acts a pr1ck outside the ring but people are far to bitter with him. Lets give him some respect and acknowledge his greatness as a boxer.

Running Bing

walshb wrote: »

I'm telling you, Billy Graham did Hatton no favors by lecturing Cortez in the dressing room on how he wanted Hatton to be allowed fight his kind of fight. Cortez was out to screw Hatton right from the start. But as Paul said, it wouldn't have made much of a difference.
Hatton was not with it on Saturday night, he was lacking confidence and basically he didn't really threaten Floyd at all. He was unusually lethargic and even on the inside, PBF was the winner. All credit to PBF, but if I'm honest, PBF was made look better due to Ricky being simply out of sorts, slow, predictable and I have to admit, out of his weight.....

Yep and DLH was too old right? and Judah was overrated, and Baldomirs a z grade fighter and Gatti was well past it, and Castillo was unlucky and Corrales was nothing but a puncher.

Maybe it was down to Flyods ability that he made Hatton look average? Why are people so reluctant to give the guy the respect he deserves.

In 20-30 years time people will be talking about Mayweather in terms of P4P greatest of all time. Not saying he is the greatest of all time but he will be up there mark my words.


Everytime he wins its the same old story "[insert excuse why his opponent lost] but [insert new opponent] would slaughter him":rolleyes:

jayroyal

walshb wrote: »

I'm telling you, Billy Graham did Hatton no favors by lecturing Cortez in the dressing room on how he wanted Hatton to be allowed fight his kind of fight. Cortez was out to screw Hatton right from the start. But as Paul said, it wouldn't have made much of a difference.
Hatton was not with it on Saturday night, he was lacking confidence and basically he didn't really threaten Floyd at all. He was unusually lethargic and even on the inside, PBF was the winner. All credit to PBF, but if I'm honest, PBF was made look better due to Ricky being simply out of sorts, slow, predictable and I have to admit, out of his weight.....

floyd makes people look bad your worst than my mate doesn't want to give anyone credit bar himself , hate people loke this i wonder who you gives credit too your a joke the way u go on. boring

Call Me Jimmy

Anybody who knows anything about boxing knows that the referee had nothing to do with hatton losing that fight. I just don't understand how people can think the referee won it for mayweather, take the blinkers off ffs it was one of the best boxing performances in a long time by mayweather. He isn't the best boxer in the world for no reason ffs. He beat the living legend that is DLH (but I'm sure ye'll dispute that as well, even though any fair minded person would agree that he deserved that one too)

megadodge

I thought it was one of the most one sided fights I ever saw

?????
Are you talking about the Khan fight ?
Or was it quite literally the only boxing match you ever saw ?

Cortez did a good job.

Ok so early on he was a bit enthuiastic to break things up but he kept the fight flowing nicely.

Are you serious ?
You thought the ref did a good job ?
So not even as much as ONE warning to a fighter who ducked his head below the waist countless times, then clung like a limpet just as regularly. There was only one man holding for 4-5 rounds and it wasn't Hatton, yet all Cortez did was constantly harp on "Ricky this Ricky that" Someone should have told him that Ricky was the white fella !

floyd makes people look bad your worst than my mate doesn't want to give anyone credit bar himself , hate people loke this i wonder who you gives credit too your a joke the way u go on. boring

Seriously... were you drunk when you blurted this ?
Not that he needs me to defend him, but Walshb is one of, if not the most respected poster on this forum (and other boxing forums too) and whether I agree with him or not I know he knows what he's talking about.

I just don't understand how people can think the referee won it for mayweather,

Please quote anywhere me or any other poster complaining about the referee actually said he won it for Mayweather. Don't hold your breath while looking !

As I mentioned in my original post, this is an ongoing thing when a top US boxer fights a non-US boxer in a big fight and I'm just fed up of it !
I'm not exactly Frank Warren's biggest fan but when you see this type of officiating you begin to realise why he doesn't want his boxers going to America.

akindoc

megadodge wrote: »

?????
Are you talking about the Khan fight ?
Or was it quite literally the only boxing match you ever saw ?



Are you serious ?
You thought the ref did a good job ?
So not even as much as ONE warning to a fighter who ducked his head below the waist countless times, then clung like a limpet just as regularly. There was only one man holding for 4-5 rounds and it wasn't Hatton, yet all Cortez did was constantly harp on "Ricky this Ricky that" Someone should have told him that Ricky was the white fella !



Seriously... were you drunk when you blurted this ?
Not that he needs me to defend him, but Walshb is one of, if not the most respected poster on this forum (and other boxing forums too) and whether I agree with him or not I know he knows what he's talking about.



Please quote anywhere me or any other poster complaining about the referee actually said he won it for Mayweather. Don't hold your breath while looking !

As I mentioned in my original post, this is an ongoing thing when a top US boxer fights a non-US boxer in a big fight and I'm just fed up of it !
I'm not exactly Frank Warren's biggest fan but when you see this type of officiating you begin to realise why he doesn't want his boxers going to America.

lol, this is a funny topic.

First I'll deal with the topic at hand. At the end of the day, we can all nitpick certain fights that seemed to have resulted in a national bias for the home fighter. it happens and it is a part of boxing. But it doesn't happen any more in the US than in the UK or Europe. Didn't Hatton get a decision over Collazo? I had it a draw and if things were so biased he would have lost. What about him against Tszyu. Even his biggest fan will admit he got away with a lot in that fight. And thats just taking Hatton as an example.

Secondly, I've said all along that Mayweather was much better than Hatton and he proved it, much to my delight. I really enjoyed watching him put on a masterpiece of a performance and if you rewatch the fight, from about the third round onwards PBF elected to stand and beat Hatton at this own game. AND HE DID JUST THAT.

Don't go on about the referee not allowing Hatton to work inside when he actually DID let him work inside. Hatton just could not penetrate Mayweathers defence and got thouroughly outclassed and sparked out. And he DESERVED to have the point taken off. He was warned about it beforehand early on (even as early as the first round, rewatch the fight "No punching behind the head"). And the INTENT to hit Floyd behind the head was there, even though it grazed him. So he deserved to get the point taken off.

It's embarrassing to listen to the Hatton fans trying to give half assed excuses.

he got handled by Floyd, PURE AND SIMPLE. He is not in Floyds league and never will be.

Floyd proved me right in this fight.

walshb

Look fellas, I had Hatton to win and really thought he would until I saw
him arrive and when he was in the dressing room. His body language
told me that he was seriously doubting himself.

I saw PBF stroll in in his tracksuit with his two
young kids and I thought, this guy doesn't have a
care in the world. That's when I started doubting
Hatton and really doubting it.

Then Graham starts moaning to the ref and I thought
that Hatton was done....

Ricky Hatton IMO was of no real threat to PBF.
Did Hatton even take a beating?
I don't think so and think he even
crumbled early. If you look at some of the tough
fight slike Gatti-Ward etc, Hattons' beating pales in
comparison...

Was Ricky a spent force that night?

Did he use all his energy up before the fight
due to his nerves and lack of confidence?

The fight was in no way a tough hard fight, not for PBF
anyway and all credit to him for beating Hatton, but I am
now convinced that I did overrate Hatton and that
I got it very wrong...

Ricky had zero skills on the outside and on the inside
he had little to offer. Again, credit to PBF who
outfought and out slugged the slugger...

PBF is a great fighter and deserves credit and will go
down as a great fighter.

Is he an alltime great Welter?

Beating Hatton and Judah and Baldomir do NOT
make him a great great welter. He IMO is
a great great 135-140lb fighter, but I cannot at this point
rate him a great great welter, until he beats a top
class natural welterweight....

DLH was OLD, past it and pretty useless May 5th, but still
a bigger threat than Hatton and IMO, he beat PBF..

So for the record, PBF is great, just not the best or close to
the best Welter I have seen...

The fight on Saturday was IMO a let down..

My expectations of Hatton were too high and
I felt that I seriously overrated him.

I also thought he could compete competitively
at 147. I was wrong. He was out of his
weight and proved this by coming in
at 145lbs....

walshb

One final thing was that when I rewatched the Tsyzu fight I was amazed at how many
head shots Hatton took and I thought to myself that if a 35 year old Tsyzu can land so easily, what will an elusive and faster and more accurate PBF do??

Still I was believing that Hatton would just keep coming and eventually break PBF.
He kept coming, but wasn't doing anything, that was the difference and the ref IMO
was a little hasty in breaking the guys, but even when he did NOT break them, Hatton was being beaten up inside. So the ref's tactics cannot be blamed in any way..

akindoc

walshb wrote: »

One final thing was that when I rewatched the Tsyzu fight I was amazed at how many
head shots Hatton took and I thought to myself that if a 35 year old Tsyzu can land so easily, what will an elusive and faster and more accurate PBF do??

Still I was believing that Hatton would just keep coming and eventually break PBF.
He kept coming, but wasn't doing anything, that was the difference and the ref IMO
was a little hasty in breaking the guys, but even when he did NOT break them, Hatton was being beaten up inside. So the ref's tactics cannot be blamed in any way..

post your sorecard for DLH vs PBF

walshb

akindoc wrote: »

post your sorecard for DLH vs PBF

Yes Sir:rolleyes:

akindoc

walshb wrote: »

Yes Sir:rolleyes:

im honestly interested in your scorecard because i had floyd a clear winner, decisively. not by much, but he clearly won it in my eyes and i will be rewatching the fight in a few days so i can compare. no way did he deserve to lose that one and such a claim demands at least some back up.

Running Bing

Bottom line:


Total Punches Mayweather Hatton
Landed 129 63
Thrown 329 372
Pct. 39% 17%

Jabs Mayweather Hatton
Landed 29 11
Thrown 72 63
Pct. 40% 17%

Power Punches Mayweather Hatton
Landed 100 52
Thrown 257 309
Pct. 39% 17%





Floyd deserves respect:)

megadodge

Lads, I think you're missing my point.

Nowhere on this thread did I say Mayweather didn't deserve the win.
Nowhere on this thread did I say Mayweather is not a great fighter. He is.
Nowhere on this thread did I mention anything about Hatton's point deduction.

This thread is about BIAS !!

From what the ref said before the fight he was consistent in taking the point from Hatton - if you're looking at it out of context. But, when you look at it after the permanent fouling from Mayweather for a full 4 rounds previous to that, it's a little hard to take.

Hatton found it impossible to fight inside early on, simply because Mayweather was constantly holding him. On the rare occasion he wasn't the ref broke them anyway. Not alone was Mayweather not deducted points, nothing was even said to Mayweather. Why ?

walshb

akindoc wrote: »

im honestly interested in your scorecard because i had floyd a clear winner, decisively. not by much, but he clearly won it in my eyes and i will be rewatching the fight in a few days so i can compare. no way did he deserve to lose that one and such a claim demands at least some back up.

To be honest, scorecards aren't my thing. But if you really would like to know, then I gave Oscar 7-8 rds to Floyd's 3-4 rds. Oscar was the man pressing the action and like he himself said, if he didn't press, there would NOT have been a fight.

Floyd ran for the majority of the fight and threw the occassional combo.
Oscar tired and didn't do extremely well, but IMO he still did more than
Floyd. The fight was a con IMO and a big letdown....

People say Oscar was pressing but not doing much. I agree, but what was Floyd doing? Blocking and ducking and running....:rolleyes:

Hatton's point deduction was a joke. He didn't even connect and Floyd was
the guy deliberately turning his back.

I'm with megadodge on this one. He/she, like me, never said Floyd wasn't a great fighter or that he didn't deserve the win.

Floyd did what he had to against a very ordinary and less than impressive Hatton. Was it a bad night for Hatton or was he simply exposed as not all that
versatile? Floyd was impressive, but I really think Hatton's lack of talent on the night made it look all the better....

raven136

not really understanding the point taken away,would the ref have taken away because desPite repeated warnings that hatton attempted to hit him around the back of the head.The punch hit his back but was clearly aimed for his head.can a ref deduct points for this?

walshb

raven136 wrote: »

not really understanding the point taken away,would the ref have taken away because desPite repeated warnings that hatton attempted to hit him around the back of the head.The punch hit his back but was clearly aimed for his head.can a ref deduct points for this?

I'm not 100% sure but I think if a fighter commits a foul and the ref judges it to be intentional, then he/she can take a point with or without prior warnings for this foul. The point deduction in Hatton's case was harsh and IMO unwarranted. But the ref was NOT on Ricky's side. He was on Floyd's side when he should have been impartial and fair and equal to both...

I know I said it before, but Billy Graham is to blame for this.

Had he not been whinging to the ref in
the dressing room before the fight I think
Cortez may well indeed have given Hatton a better deal...

Hatton still loses I believe, but who knows. The ref screwed up
Hatton mentally also. This severley affected Hatton.

But the true greats deal with this pressure.
The real talent shines through and Ricky
didn't have it, Floyd did....

nacho libre

All this talk about Hatton's lifestyle in between fights and the referee's bias are redunant when you look at the punch stats for this fight. a great fighter can adapt to any style which Floyd Mayweather did. if Mayweather and Hatton were to fight 10 times, with Hatton fulfilling his critics criteria and the referee being deemed to be impartial, nine out of the 10 times Mayweather would still likely win. Hatton was outclassed last weekend. this does not mean he is suddenly a bad fighter, who we all overrated, it simply means he was make to look ordinary and leaden-footed by a more gifted fighter. It happens in every sport sometime that one person or team is superior to an another - who previously were beating everyone up until they met the superior team/opponent.
Some of you view Witter as a better fighter than Hatton. I bet Mayweather would do the same to Witter if they fought.

cowzerp

nacho libre wrote: »

if Mayweather and Hatton were to fight 10 times, with Hatton fulfilling his critics criteria and the referee being deemed to be impartial, nine out of the 10 times Mayweather would still likely win. .

10 out of 10 times, unless he caught him a lucky shot. outboxed, outfought and out classed.

nacho libre wrote: »

Hatton was outclassed last weekend. this does not mean he is suddenly a bad fighter, who we all overrated,.

People saying they over rated Hatton are foolish, he's still that good but they just under rated Mayweather..

nacho libre wrote: »

Some of you view Witter as a better fighter than Hatton. I bet Mayweather would do the same to Witter if they fought.

Mayweather would do the same to witter and Hatton would beat him too, could be a good fight though..

walshb

I overrated Hatton above 140lbs....
Paul, did you not
see Hatton before the fight?
Did you notice he wasn't at all
confident and had the look of a beaten man?

The Hatton who beat Castillo and Tsyzu and Vince Phillips
was NOT the Hatton that Floyd beat for many reasons....

Floyd's talent is also another big reason as to why Hatton lost...

But I still maintain that Hatton crumbled under pressure and crumbled under
a beating that was not near as fierce as other beatings he took thru his career
and still prevailed....

cowzerp

walshb wrote: »

I overrated Hatton above 140lbs....
Paul, did you not
see Hatton before the fight?
Did you notice he wasn't at all
confident and had the look of a beaten man?

I agree that Hatton did not look confident, but thats because i think he realised he was out of his league! your talking about world champ level v world class level.

All the talk about Hatton going up weight is crap too, people seem to forget that floyd went up 5 weights and beat all he faced.

I also remember telling people on here that mayweather would over power Hatton and everyone thought this was hilarious! well he did over power him and made Hatton look small.

Hatton will drop back in weight and have a few more wins before he hangs up his gloves, and will be remembered fondly like the way mcguigan is.

Mayweather will probably have 1-2 more fights and if he retires unbeaten will go down in history as the best of all time, people are only realising this now!! This will be like Sugar ray retiring unbeaten.

walshb

Paul, you predicted perfectly and Hatton was overpowered. But that's because he was fighting a fighter who was naturally bigger and more comfortable at 147..

I was one who thought that Hatton would be physically stronger.
When Ricky came in at 145 to Floyd's strong 147 I was then
really doubting Hatton....

So Floyd was stronger because he was more the Welter in every way.

Hatton I am now completely convinced is a 140lber....

Floyd is not the biggest or the best Welter I have seen by a long shot, but he
is bigger and better than Hatton....

The final thing is that although PBF went up in weight, who really of class
did he beat. Oscar was past it and was very pedestrian.
Would Floyd have beat the real champ at 154lbs, Winky??

So he did go up, but IMO he didn't do anything that was awesome
above 140lbs....

Beating Judah and Oscar and Baldomir are hardly displays
of true greatness....

They are good, but that's about it....