Should the fire brigade be allowed to defend themselves?

SuperSean11

Should members of the fire brigade be allowed to defend themselves when they are attacked? It seems to happen often enough. From being hit with projectiles
http://www.argus.ie/frontpage/fire-service-ambushed-by-stone-throwing-youths-1233878.html
to being physically attacked
http://www.senatordavidnorris.ie/blogger/2006/07/criminal-justice-bill-2004-second.html
"Members of the fire and ambulance services are being savagely attacked. Mark Hogan, a fireman in his 20s with the Dublin Fire Brigade, was head butted on Aston Quay and a series of attacks took place in Cork, including one in which a crew member was hit on the head with a bottle"
And has anyone on boards who is in the services ever been attacked?

challengemaster

Of course they should be allowed to defend themself. It's rather stupid not being allowed to. I mean, what good reason is there for them not being allowed defend themself?

SuperSean11

challengemaster wrote: »

Of course they should be allowed to defend themself. It's rather stupid not being allowed to. I mean, what good reason is there for them not being allowed defend themself?

Thats what im wondering i cant find or think of any reason why they shouldnt be allowed to defend themselves

Witcher

a good lash of the hose would sort them out



:cool::cool::cool:

SuperSean11

blay1 wrote: »

a good lash of the hose would sort them out



:cool::cool::cool:

Thats what i was thinking This guys idea isnt bad
http://twentymajor.net/2006/06/page/2/
"the very least they should be issued with is tazers"

challengemaster

tazers.. plus a hose.. hahaha, deep fried scumbag, anyone?

SuperSean11

challengemaster wrote: »

tazers.. plus a hose.. hahaha, deep fried scumbag, anyone?

Forget about K.F.C. I.F.S. I can see it now

timmywex

em, its some little legal thing afaik, if they spray the hose, if someone gets injured, they can claim from the state as they can claim they didnt do anything, but alot of the fire brigades are fitted with cctv now, its awkward. Infact in some dublin areas, the gardai wont enter without armed assistance and the fire briagde wont enter without armed assitance either!

there are a lot of spurious ambulance calls in some areas of dublin to, so as that article mentioned stab vests, will they just make it more proactive and violent?

Witcher

they shouldnt be able to claim usual irish bull****,


little scumbags, throw them in the fire i say



:cool::cool::cool:

SuperSean11

timmywex wrote: »

if someone gets injured, they can claim from the state as they can claim they didnt do anything

I see that but in the case of the bottle to the face the firebrigade should certainly be able to defend themselves in a situation such as this

timmywex

SuperSean11 wrote: »

I see that but in the case of the bottle to the face the firebrigade should certainly be able to defend themselves in a situation such as this

i totally agree, but they cant, i say send bertie out on the front line some night!! that'll fix our problems, i reckon supply glue in the hoses, let the gards go pick em all up in the morning!

SuperSean11

timmywex wrote: »

i totally agree, but they cant, i say send bertie out on the front line some night!! that'll fix our problems, i reckon supply glue in the hoses, let the gards go pick em all up in the morning!

There should be one riot guard or specialy trained guard with all fire crews

challengemaster

one riot guard? lol. sorry mate, but what good is one riot guard to anyone.

That's like giving someone one piece of a jigsaw. they usually work as a team(or riot squad) - it's a good idea for them to have some kind of protection, but it's also kind of sad to think that they should need it

SuperSean11

challengemaster wrote: »

one riot guard? lol. sorry mate, but what good is one riot guard to anyone.

That's like giving someone one piece of a jigsaw. they usually work as a team(or riot squad) - it's a good idea for them to have some kind of protection, but it's also kind of sad to think that they should need it

Your right that wouldnt work i was thinking he would have a riot shield and could block fireworks but the firefighters are hardly going to be in one group. Are the riot police allowed use rubber bullets?

challengemaster

I'm not too sure about that one..

Dave!

They should be (and probably are) allowed to defend themselves to the same extent that anyone can defend themselves when attacked. I'm not sure what parameters there are on that, I'm assuming as long as it's proportional, etc., it's grand.

I don't think they should be given any self-defense equipment (tazers, etc) nor use the fire hose on attackers. It's not their job, they're not trained to do it, nor should they be expected to have to do it. They're there to stop fires, if they're attacked, that's a matter for the Gardaí.

So that leads me to say that -- yes I think a Garda escort (at least 1 squad car) should be required when the FS are called to certain areas, where there have been instances of them being attacked before. I'm not sure riot cops are necessary, for the most part the FS are only attacked because the scumbags know they can't do anything about it. If there's Gardaí there the attacks will be greatly diminished IMO, because they can be arrested if caught. There will of course be exceptions, but in those instances backup may be called; I don't think the odd out of control incident would justify a riot police escort.

It would also be an idea to compile a list of the c*nts who attack firemen, and if their house catches fire, let it burn (once everyone's out of course :rolleyes: ). Unfortunately I imagine that would leave the council vulnerable to being sued...

civdef

Unfortunately I imagine that would leave the council vulnerable to being sued...

Surprisingly not, the fire authority has a legal obligation to provide a fire service, but not to actually extinguish any fire. For that matter, the fire authority could quite legally put the fire out by demolishing the house with a dozer.

ex_infantry man

they should be trained in unarmed combat just like the army i think anyway or be left turn the hose on people if needs be

It's scary that this is even thought of, but yes they should be allowed defend themselves.

civdef

As already pointed out, they are allowed defend themselves, as is any other person. Doesn't this make the thread a bit redundant?

johnnyrotten

civdef wrote: »

As already pointed out, they are allowed defend themselves, as is any other person. Doesn't this make the thread a bit redundant?

Of course Firefighters can defend themselves using "reasonable force".
Unfortunatley someone will see it as unreasonable and make a complaint and believe me when a complaint is made against a DFB Firefighter he/she is guilty until proven innocent.

Its very simple nowadays.
If there is a fire or another emergency in particular areas mosDFB crews will not enter unless there is Garda assistance. I have seeen cases where the Gardai themselves won't enter !!:eek:

TheNog

Would agree that firefighters should be allowed to defend themselves.

The outfit like the jacket, trousers and helmet would afford the guys more protection than the standard garda uniform

AngryHippie

Yep, Anyone stupid enough to attack a fireman on the job, should be beaten until they realise how stupid they are, For fcuks sake, so many of them are volunteers.
Actually on second thoughts, beating is too good, Set them on fire for a bit, Who are the little smarthole ****ehawks gonna call then ???

The Real B-man

I Think they should have at least have stab proof vests ok the Gards have them & some hospital security a while now but the HSE & DFB Personnel are still waiting and at risk

civdef

Stab vests for ambulance crews can make sense, but they wouldn't be a practical option for firefighters, nor are they probably very necessary.

On the point of FF's getting hassle for defending themselves - has this ever happened? I can't see a judge/jury coming down against a firefighter for self-defence somehow.

The Real B-man

civdef wrote: »

Stab vests for ambulance crews can make sense, but they wouldn't be a practical option for firefighters, nor are they probably very necessary.

On the point of FF's getting hassle for defending themselves - has this ever happened? I can't see a judge/jury coming down against a firefighter for self-defence somehow.

Agreed, my point was for DFB Paramedics

NeverSayDie

Coincidentally, re firefighters having to defend themselves, this popped up in this morning's news:
http://www.rte.ie/news/2007/1214/dundalk.html

Sierra Oscar

NeverSayDie wrote: »

Coincidentally, re firefighters having to defend themselves, this popped up in this morning's news:
http://www.rte.ie/news/2007/1214/dundalk.html

Yes I saw that - fair play to the firemen.:)

Dave!

Yeah heard that on the radio this mornin! Turning the hose on him, nice

msg11

Fair play to them, what else can you do?

civdef

I wouldn't fancy a standpipe key across the back of the legs, or a hooligan tool for that matter...

ex_infantry man

they should have cranked up the psi on the water pressure and blow a hole in the lunatic! why on earth do people do such mad things like come at four men with a samurai sword when all they were doin was there job, if the government don,t wake up to this now they,ll probably have a problem on there hands i.e. emergency services personnel going on strike or if worse comes to worse someone ending up seriously injured, i hope the gardai gave him a good seeing to back in the station

IrishFireServs

l Will try and keep this short,

Firefighters like anyone can defend themselves using reasonable force,

Section 185 of the Criminal Justice Act 2006 makes it an offence to assault or threaten to assault fire brigade personnel during the execution of their duties. The penalty for this offence is a fine of 5,000 euro and 7 years in prison (or both). It is also an offence to obstruct or impede fire brigade personnel from carrying out their duties. This offence carries a fine of 2,500 euro.

Fire fighters are immune from legal action in the course of their duties within the Act's provisions.
Offences under the Fire Services Act, 1981 and Criminal Justice Act 2006

We don't assault someone trying to attack us in particular groups of youth as we must be seen to be neutral otherwise we will have ambushes set up and individuals targeted the next time we respond to that area or person.In particular this is crucial in Dublin where people know that they can call an ambulance and get two firefighter paramedics to respond without helmets etc. We are there to help every member of the community regardless of some er persons behaviour. Let the Gardai sort that out.

Regarding extinguishing Fires

Under section 10 (2) of the 1981 fire services Act A fire authority shall make provision for the prompt and efficient extinguishing of fires in buildings and other places of all kinds in its functional area and for the protection and rescue of persons and property from injury by fire,

In short we are required to put them out not only to have an authority provide equipment etc.

WhiteWashMan

I work the Country Fire Authority in Victoria, Australia, and we have unbelievable powers in the event of a fire.

Then again, when you live in a country where a fire can destroy half a million hecters at a go, its not surprising.

Sierra Oscar

I have noticed that the issue is getting a lot of attention in the UK.

Fire crew attacks 'on the rise'.

Is this sort of carry on happening on a large scale here in Ireland also?

Yobs Attack Britain's Firefighters

It is an absolute disgrace!:mad:

cushtac

johnnyrotten wrote: »

Of course Firefighters can defend themselves using "reasonable force".
Unfortunatley someone will see it as unreasonable and make a complaint and believe me when a complaint is made against a DFB Firefighter he/she is guilty until proven innocent.

Are you saying that the Gardai and courts are unfairly dealing with DFB members accused of assault?