Car impounded for VRT...

TheBigLebowski

Just wondering has anyone ever had theirs or know of anyone who has had their car impounded over non payment of VRT?

Our man in Havana

I have heard of it happening. I have seen sting operations where people are stopped leaving industrial estates etc.

Dr.Millah

When i was working over the summer, we were unloading a truck in the back of a yard in the industrial side of cork. There was aload of cars that had been impounded from no vrt just left there parked up.

TheBigLebowski

Bond-007 wrote: »

I have heard of it happening. I have seen sting operations where people are stopped leaving industrial estates etc.

Why industrial estates?

Our man in Havana

They target people leaving work. Generally at 4pm to 6pm weekdays.

TheBigLebowski

Bond-007 wrote: »

They target people leaving work. Generally at 4pm to 6pm weekdays.

Is 'they' the police or customs people?

crosstownk

TheBigLebowski wrote: »

Is 'they' the police or customs people?

Both - I past such a checkpoint in Leopardstown a few weeks back. There was a thread posted about it.

patrickc

they generally give a week to take it in, but if you leave it after that yes i've heard of cars ebing impounded then

drdre

Its happened to my friends dads A8,It was seized and wasnt returned for nearly 1 year.Also another family friend got a hand signal from the customs to stop (in foxrock) but he just sped off.That was hilarious when i heard that happened and then he parked his car underground for afew weeks and brought it out with a new style reg plate

TheBigLebowski

patrickc wrote: »

they generally give a week to take it in, but if you leave it after that yes i've heard of cars ebing impounded then

So they ask you to come in to the station and produce in a weeks time then or something?


DrDre, could yer man who had his car impounded not just go and pay the VRT to get his car back?

Anywho just wondering. A 'friend' hasn't paid his VRT yet and is wondering if and how he's gonna get done. He'll be paying it but would prefer to wait til the new year...

ninty9er

TheBigLebowski wrote: »

So they ask you to come in to the station and produce in a weeks time then or something?


DrDre, could yer man who had his car impounded not just go and pay the VRT to get his car back?

Anywho just wondering. A 'friend' hasn't paid his VRT yet and is wondering if and how he's gonna get done. He'll be paying it but would prefer to wait til the new year...

Until July I presume...

IF you get caught. HOW is that you're oficially given a certain period to register it and provide proof to customs or else the car is impounded....I believe they become property of the state after 12 months unclaimed (VRT unpaid)

bazz26

Happened to someone I know. He was stopped at a checkpoint one evening, told to pay the VRT within seven days or it would be taken off him. They took his details and sent him on his way. He put it on the long finger so about a week and a half later he was sitting down watching TV when he heard all this racket outside his front door. He went outside to investigate and was shocked to see that his beloved Audi A4 was being loaded onto a transporter by two guys from Customs, uniforms and all. They issued him some sort of summons stating that they were inpounding the car for not paying the VRT, etc. They were accompanied by two Gardai in a patrol car who told the guy that there was nothing he could do until he settled the outstanding VRT at his local VRO. This all happened on a Friday and he had to wait until Monday I think to get to the VRO. He also had to pay the impound charges though I think he managed to get them to drop one day's charge off of that.

drdre

TheBigLebowski wrote: »

So they ask you to come in to the station and produce in a weeks time then or something?


DrDre, could yer man who had his car impounded not just go and pay the VRT to get his car back?

Anywho just wondering. A 'friend' hasn't paid his VRT yet and is wondering if and how he's gonna get done. He'll be paying it but would prefer to wait til the new year...

No there was some other Tax case, do you remember it was in the papers about business men trying to avoid vrt and also if they try to avoid vrt the revenue will investigate their businesses.He was one of them sad men

_Kaiser_

TheBigLebowski wrote: »

Why industrial estates?

They used to do this in Ballycoolin (Blanchardstown) a fair bit. Reason? IBM, Xerox and Symantec are all there with lots of EMEA support/sales jobs which require lots of Germans, FRench, Italians etc - many of who bring over their own cars when they take the job.

Easy pickings!

OTK

Mate of mine had a car seized outside sandyford ind est under this legislation:
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2001/en/act/pub/0007/sec0140.html

he had to pay VRT plus a fine plus a charge per day for storage in the police pound.

The car was taken by garda traffic corps. Car was spotted while driving rather than stopped at a checkpoint.

he was guilty as sin.

TheBigLebowski

OTK wrote: »

Mate of mine had a car seized outside sandyford ind est under this legislation:
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2001/en/act/pub/0007/sec0140.html

he had to pay VRT plus a fine plus a charge per day for storage in the police pound.

The car was taken by garda traffic corps. Car was spotted while driving rather than stopped at a checkpoint.

he was guilty as sin.

Interesting. From your link, could some legally minded person translate this into idiot speak for me?

"(4) When a determination referred to in subsection (1), (2) or (3) has been made in respect of any excisable products, other goods, other thing or a vehicle or on the expiry of a period of one month from the date on which such products, goods, other thing or vehicle were or was detained under that subsection, whichever is the earlier, such products, goods, other thing or vehicle are to be either seized as liable to forfeiture under the Customs Acts or under section 141 , or released."

Does this mean you have a month to pay VRT or that after they seize your car, you have a month to pay before it becomes property of the state?

Esel

TheBigLebowski wrote: »

Interesting. From your link, could some legally minded person translate this into idiot speak for me?

"(4) When a determination referred to in subsection (1), (2) or (3) has been made in respect of any excisable products, other goods, other thing or a vehicle or on the expiry of a period of one month from the date on which such products, goods, other thing or vehicle were or was detained under that subsection, whichever is the earlier, such products, goods, other thing or vehicle are to be either seized as liable to forfeiture under the Customs Acts or under section 141 , or released."

Does this mean you have a month to pay VRT or that after they seize your car, you have a month to pay before it becomes property of the state?

I am not an idiot, so found this reasonably clear, for legalese.

Ta me anseo

If the car was registered to you while you were resident outside the state and you subsequently bring it into Ireland, you have 6 months to register the vehicle and pay VRT, except that if you have already owned the vehicle for 6 months or more then VRT is not due.

If you are resident in Ireland and have imported a car (bought abroad/delivered from abroad) you have 24 hours to register the vehicle and pay VRT.

There seems to be a huge crackdown on this stuff lately. There are huge amounts of cars from Eastern Europe in particular which have not been registered within the 6 months period although it is unlikely that many of these will have VRT due. Also, because of the large numbers of vehicles bought in the UK and NI, they tend to target them also.

Many have tried to use a friends address in the UK for 6 months and then try to register the vehicle after 6 months have passed, therefore avoiding VRT, but I have heard of Irish PAYE and other records (electoral rolls) being used to prove these claims false. How true these rumours are is another thing. What I do know is that if they want to get you they certainly can. Car will be impounded immediately (from wherever you happen to be at the time) and you will pay all kinds of costs to have it released.

Not worth the risk in my view. I'd rather pay the VRT and sleep soundly rather than going to bed at night hoping my car is still there in the morning.

Also, almost every insurance company will only cover you for a period of one month while driving on a UK registration. After that, your policy may well prove to be invalid should you wish to make a claim. Many companies will happily change your policy to reflect the UK reg but neglect to tell you that you won't be covered next month. In my case it was in the small print of my policy wording.

I really don't know if any of that is at all relevant to this discussion as I just didn't have the energy to read all the posts. If it's not - please ignore all after "If".

lm7

I had picked up a micra for the wife few years ago in newry uk reg. the next day we drove the kids to school. outside the school two customs men asked how long we had the car we told them we where going in to pay the duty when we where finished with the children. I thought it was a bit low stopping us at a school. I just brought in a mr2 1991 high milage had to pay 1180 vrt and had to give them my pps number. will never import anything legaly again.

JohnCleary

lm7 wrote: »

I had picked up a micra for the wife few years ago in newry uk reg. the next day we drove the kids to school. outside the school two customs men asked how long we had the car we told them we where going in to pay the duty when we where finished with the children. I thought it was a bit low stopping us at a school. I just brought in a mr2 1991 high milage had to pay 1180 vrt and had to give them my pps number. will never import anything legaly again.

You think that's bad? Customs pulled a UK reg car at Cong, Co. Mayo about 2 years back as a woman was dropping her kids off to school. They took the car then and there. Kids in school, and the poor mommy had to walk home

Guy:Incognito

JohnCleary wrote: »

You think that's bad? Customs pulled a UK reg car at Cong, Co. Mayo about 2 years back as a woman was dropping her kids off to school. They took the car then and there. Kids in school, and the poor mommy had to walk home

Ah bless her. Should have made sure he affairs were in order. No sympathy.

Our man in Havana

+1

One less on the school run. Yay!

Bendihorse

A friend was pulled in his Car on UK reg in Athlone, cop asked him why the yellow plate, he said he lives/works in the north (his job was cross border at the time. He did have a registered address in north alright, but was paying stamps in south)

Anyway, the cop told him he was impounding his car there and then pending investigation by customs, told him and his father to step out of the vehicle and drove it back to station without any further by or leave. (There is a cop in Athlone that has made this his particular vendetta, so if your illegally on a yellow plate - avoid this area)

Anyway, in the heel of the reel, he had to pay 3k + of a fine for non payment of VRT in order to remove the car from the compound and was given 7 days thereafter to sell it or clear it.

Hes currently trying to challenge it through whatever legal chanels are open to him, i told him that he should just suck it up and learn a lesson. They are now investigating all his tax affairs, even though hes just a normal joe soap with one job and no nixers going on. Its really not worth chancing it.

--amadeus--

Once those fellas get thier claws into you you will struggle to get out again, so it's probably not really worth it.

And I can't say i have an awful lot of time for people who get caught - VRT is criminally unfair and I can understand anyone who would rather not pay it but we've all had to settle up so why not you? The huge numbers of foreign reg'd cars (UK or other) driving around annoys me a fair bit. If you haven't paid the VRT then you're not paying road tax either and there has to be a question mark over insurance and even your license.

ejmaztec

I particularly like the way that they hound tourists and am not surprised when some of those tourists never come back.

whippet

ejmaztec wrote: »

I particularly like the way that they hound tourists and am not surprised when some of those tourists never come back.

have you any evidence of this? or did you just make it up?

rebel.ranter

I know someone driving for 2 years on UK plates and has been passing through check points with out of date UK road tax, never even been questioned. The VRT has dropped by €1800 plus he missed €1400 x 2 years road tax.
Do I agree with what he did? I'm not really sure. I don't agree with VRT, but then again I don't agree with breaking the law...

I was too chicken so I paid VRT on my car after 4 days.
(Bought it on a Friday cleared on a Tuesday before any of you pedantics mention I broke the law by not paying it within 24 hours ).

ejmaztec

whippet wrote: »

have you any evidence of this? or did you just make it up?

Did I make it up?:mad:

When the customs were looking for some money from me, some years ago, I was bumping into them on a regular basis. I happened to be in the centre of Listowel one summer and recognised a couple of guys heading towards a UK registered car. The people in the car were on their annual holiday and were a bit miffed to have to put up with some tactless individuals questioning them in the middle of a car-park. I stood back and watched. When the customs men had finished, the tourists were visibly angry.

Recognising the customs men, as I did, I spotted them in various places over the summer months, approaching various people in various car-parks.

Bendihorse

rebel.ranter wrote: »

I know someone driving for 2 years on UK plates and has been passing through check points with out of date UK road tax, never even been questioned. The VRT has dropped by €1800 plus he missed €1400 x 2 years road tax.
Do I agree with what he did? I'm not really sure. I don't agree with VRT, but then again I don't agree with breaking the law...

Your friend will continue with the gamble until he gets caught, its ok saying 'i got away with it for ''x'' amount of time', thinking its great then clearing it at a point. But he's going to keep going and keep taking about the saving until hes nabbed. Does he plan on driving it uncleared forever boasting about the all the money he 'wont' hand over?

He SHOULD cut his gains at some point before it becomes losses and then who starts to look like a fool? Not you

Its not really a 'saving' anyway unless he actually clears it at SOME point. As a wise man once said 'i hope it stays fine for him'

BnA

ejmaztec wrote: »

Did I make it up?:mad:

When the customs were looking for some money from me, some years ago, I was bumping into them on a regular basis. I happened to be in the centre of Listowel one summer and recognised a couple of guys heading towards a UK registered car. The people in the car were on their annual holiday and were a bit miffed to have to put up with some tactless individuals questioning them in the middle of a car-park. I stood back and watched. When the customs men had finished, the tourists were visibly angry.

Recognising the customs men, as I did, I spotted them in various places over the summer months, approaching various people in various car-parks.

Please allow me to translate that post.

"I had a run in with the customs because I was trying to avoid paying VRT or some other kind of import duty. Therefore, I don't like them.

I saw them questioning some genuine UK tourists in a carpark in Tralee one summer.

I also saw them other times that summer doing their job.

Therefore (and I'm not biased here) I feel I can say that they have hassled numerous tourists who will never come back to this country again"

end of translation

ejmaztec

rebel.ranter wrote: »

I know someone driving for 2 years on UK plates and has been passing through check points with out of date UK road tax, never even been questioned. The VRT has dropped by €1800 plus he missed €1400 x 2 years road tax.
Do I agree with what he did? I'm not really sure. I don't agree with VRT, but then again I don't agree with breaking the law...

I was too chicken so I paid VRT on my car after 4 days.
(Bought it on a Friday cleared on a Tuesday before any of you pedantics mention I broke the law by not paying it within 24 hours ).

Wouldn't they have checked his UK log-book, residence status etc., then back-dated the VRT, or given that he'd been driving VRTless, confiscated the vehicle?

ejmaztec

BnA wrote: »

Please allow me to translate that post.

"I had a run in with the customs because I was trying to avoid paying VRT or some other kind of import duty. Therefore, I don't like them.

I saw them questioning some genuine UK tourists in a carpark in Tralee one summer.

I also saw them other times that summer doing their job.

Therefore (and I'm not biased here) I feel I can say that they have hassled numerous tourists who will never come back to this country again"

end of translation

You really shouldn't read into things that don't exist (e.g. Tralee = Listowel). I have every respect for the Revenue authorities and was making a simple point. Unlike many people, I am not a tax dodger with a grudge. :rolleyes:

meathstevie

Try this for I funny one, purely hypothetical :
- I live in Cavan
- I work in Tyrone, regular Monday to Friday commute
- My parents live in Fermanagh and I visit them every Saturday
- On Sunday I go for a long drive that takes me over the border and back a
few times
- I drive on a NI reg, taxed and insured at my parent's address

Now my question : since the car isn't in the State for any 24hr day at any time do I have to pay VRT ?

tossy

Had a run in with 2 guards last year it subsequently turned into a long friendly chat,it all started over a query about my german style reg plates,turns out these 2 guards were specifically tasked with stopping cars on foreign plates that might be dodging VRT payments,they were worknig under the auspices of customs.

THis was in a pretty afluent area of south dublin and he ran down al ist of cars they had "nabbed" in the last while,including 2 360s and an RS4,some were from tip offs and others were from just crusing around,they were driving a ford focus est van and it was probably if not one of the best unmarked cars ive ever seen.

Henry Ford III

meathstevie wrote: »

Try this for I funny one, purely hypothetical :
- I live in Cavan
- I work in Tyrone, regular Monday to Friday commute
- My parents live in Fermanagh and I visit them every Saturday
- On Sunday I go for a long drive that takes me over the border and back a
few times
- I drive on a NI reg, taxed and insured at my parent's address

Now my question : since the car isn't in the State for any 24hr day at any time do I have to pay VRT ?

If you live in Cavan the answer is yes I suspect.

kluivert

Can customs impound a car, I thought that it was only the Gardai that can do this.

If they impound it, go to the Garda impound with a low loader and take the car home and park it off the road.

VRT the car the next day.

kluivert

meathstevie wrote: »

Try this for I funny one, purely hypothetical :
- I live in Cavan
- I work in Tyrone, regular Monday to Friday commute
- My parents live in Fermanagh and I visit them every Saturday
- On Sunday I go for a long drive that takes me over the border and back a
few times
- I drive on a NI reg, taxed and insured at my parent's address

Now my question : since the car isn't in the State for any 24hr day at any time do I have to pay VRT ?

I rang Santry office one day to confirm this.

Situation was: Company based in Dublin wanted to employ a gentleman salesman from Belfast to work in NI and supply him with a NI reg car. I said that the car owner will be the Irish company and that this gentleman will have to appear in Dublin for sales meetings. If he gets stopped what is the issue.

I was told done, because the car is KEPT in NI and doesnt appear in Ireland for more than say I think it was 183 days during the year then there is no requirement to VRT the car.

Now I live in Monaghan close to Culloville, I could have the same arguement, but the question they asked is where is the car parked come midnight of the day. No way around it, as it goes by your license, if you have a NI license then your ok.

BnA

meathstevie wrote: »

Try this for I funny one, purely hypothetical :
- I live in Cavan
- I work in Tyrone, regular Monday to Friday commute
- My parents live in Fermanagh and I visit them every Saturday
- On Sunday I go for a long drive that takes me over the border and back a
few times
- I drive on a NI reg, taxed and insured at my parent's address

Now my question : since the car isn't in the State for any 24hr day at any time do I have to pay VRT ?

By right you should have to as Cavan is your full time address. Where you work doesn't come into it unless the car is a work car and is actually registered in the company's name.

If you were stopped on the side of the road, you'd probably be fine as the car is registered, taxed and insured in the north and you could say you live at home in Fermanagh. However, if the customs were watching your area in Cavan and had noticed the car outside the door a few times and decided to call to the door (as they have been known to do) then you might find it a bit trickier to explain. You could of course say that Fermanagh is your full time address and you only stay in Cavan one or two nights a week, and you would probably get away with it. But if you got a stickler of an officer, he might just make it his business to pass your way a few days a week for a few weeks to note how often you are there before calling back.

If I was in your shoes, I'd take my chances. Particularly if it's a half decent car that would cost a lot to VRT.

JohnCleary

kluivert wrote: »

Can customs impound a car, I thought that it was only the Gardai that can do this.

If they impound it, go to the Garda impound with a low loader and take the car home and park it off the road.

VRT the car the next day.

Yes, Customs have as much, if not more power than the Guards

If the Guards lift your car for whatever reason, yes, you can go to the Garda compound with a trailer and take it home.

However, I don't think this is the case with Customs. I think they can retain it until you pay VRT. This makes sense really, chances are if Guards lift the car it's because its unroadworthy/not insured etc. so it's OK to trailer it off, but if Customs have your car chances are it's because you haven't paid your taxes

Our man in Havana

What would be the clincher for customs would be if you hold a ROI driving licence. Having a NI licence would get rid of them easily. Simply say you living in Fermanagh and you are seeing a lady friend in Cavan who allows you to stay over on occasion.

rebel.ranter

Bendihorse wrote: »

Does he plan on driving it uncleared forever boasting about the all the money he 'wont' hand over?

He SHOULD cut his gains at some point before it becomes losses and then who starts to look like a fool? Not you

Its not really a 'saving' anyway unless he actually clears it at SOME point. As a wise man once said 'i hope it stays fine for him'

It's an older car with a bit of exclusivity attached to it. He has now taken the car off the road to replace all the suspension components. He plans on clearing the car after that, before June as it has crap CO2 emission rating. So if he sticks to his current plan he'll be OK. To be fair he doesn't boast about it, he is a fairly modest type of guy TBH.

Again I am not advocating breaking the law, I did pay my VRT.

I often wondered about who the registered owner of the car is in this situation, the UK owner is no longer registered as the owner & in this case the car is not registered in this state either.

Bendihorse

I dont know, the UK owner is not the registered owner anyway as they send back the slip off the end of the tax book to the DVLA to say that the car has been exported. I guess under those circumstances, there is no registered owner of the vehicle.

Good for him that hes got away with not paying for so long, its just the longer he lets it go on the more likely he is to get caught, therefore it would be a false economy. The fact that its a classic would probably stand to him at checkpoints as the cops wouldn't think its his regular wheels and is just a 'Sunday Drive'.

I wouldn't get on my high horse over someone not paying VRT cos its not even legal ffs, but i would be of the opinion 'don't do the crime if ya cant do the time'

Our man in Havana

the UK owner is no longer registered as the owner

I think you will find he is until you clear it. The DVLA will not accept an irish address so the uk guy cannot get his name off the car.

Mylow

whippet wrote: »

have you any evidence of this? or did you just make it up?

It happened to some friends of mine from England while touring in Cork. Said he had been speeding, he said Gards were down right rude. Guess what, they cut holiday short and went home, very upset at treatment, they said they had felt very threatened.

I also had an incident where I was stopped at Kilmainham, one Garda waved me on while there colleague was talking to some other motorist. The occupied Garda then jumped out in front of me and asked what my rush was? I told him his colleauge had waved me on, the colleauge walked away. If I had the balls or inclination I would have made a formal complaint. But like everything else here, I would just be beating my head against a wall.

I have a friend who is PC in Hampshire Constabulary, he told me if they have a complaint made against them by someone with no prior conviction or 'known' to police they lose all overtime until complaint is resolved. Can you imagine that happening here?

I see Customs regularly driving around my estate, they normally record NI/UK reg car numbers and then following morning wait at exit of estate and impound the cars. They do it quiet regularly around Drogheda, I have never seen tham take a LT/LV/or P plate car, always NI and UK reg ones. You will find articles on Unison, look up 'Drogheda Independant'

Bendihorse

Bond-007 wrote: »

I think you will find he is until you clear it. The DVLA will not accept an irish address so the uk guy cannot get his name off the car.

The way they deal with a car being exported is different to one being sold internally, under normal circumstances the old owner sends the tax book back to the DVLA to get the names changed but when its being exported, the new owner takes the tax book instead and a special 'Car Export' section of the form is signed by both parties and sent back to DVLA.

The guy i bought my car off checked and rechecked that he would not be considered the registered owner after we bought the car for export as he was concerned that he would be held liable if we picked up speeding points.

triple-M

how do car dealers get away without paying vrt i know many a car dealer who solely import cars from ni dont pay vrt(and have 40-50 cars in warehouse/yardon ni reg) and sell them on here at a profit,and can they only impound your car from a public road or from your home address too ,im thinking of buying a used passat up north which is going much cheaper than usual and just leaving it in the driveway until i have vrt money saved up:)

JohnCleary

triple-M wrote: »

how do car dealers get away without paying vrt i know many a car dealer who solely import cars from ni dont pay vrt(and have 40-50 cars in warehouse/yardon ni reg) and sell them on here at a profit,and can they only impound your car from a public road or from your home address too ,im thinking of buying a used passat up north which is going much cheaper than usual and just leaving it in the driveway until i have vrt money saved up:)

Traders have a TAN

Seth Brundle

Bendihorse wrote: »

Hes currently trying to challenge it through whatever legal chanels are open to him, i told him that he should just suck it up and learn a lesson. They are now investigating all his tax affairs, even though hes just a normal joe soap with one job and no nixers going on. Its really not worth chancing it.

He hasn't a chance. The VRT laws are quite specific with no loopholes AFAIK. It isn't illegal for them to charge a registration tax.

kluivert wrote: »

Can customs impound a car, I thought that it was only the Gardai that can do this.

If they impound it, go to the Garda impound with a low loader and take the car home and park it off the road.

VRT the car the next day.

IIRC in this area, customs have more power. They can enter your premesis and take it without bothering to tell you. Gardai need a warrant.

TheBigLebowski

JohnCleary wrote: »

Traders have a TAN

Traders still have to pay VRT even if they have a TAN.

Our man in Havana

Is the difference that they don't pay the vrt until they sell it to a punter?

Biro

Bond-007 wrote: »

Is the difference that they don't pay the vrt until they sell it to a punter?

Ya, that's it. They must pay VRT when they sell the car, and register it in the new buyer's name. They're not allowed sell a car without paying VRT, but they don't have to pay it until they sell the car.