Beat the bastards to it - the cars you need after July 08

unkel

Diesels! Import one and shrink your motor tax bill to half nothing. Relatively new BMWs (relatively very low CO2 emission figures) seem to be a good bet. With the 6-pot 3 litre engined cars generating the biggest savings

Mr.Boots

Just wondering.....why import one???
Why not buy here?

ninty9er

because the new motor tax rates won't apply;)

eamon234

Motor Tax isn't emissions based - VRT is.

Mr.Boots

Oh yea...just coped the OP is talking bout used cars

unkel

Mr.Boots wrote: »

Just wondering.....why import one???
Why not buy here?

Importing a second hand car with low emissions will attract a lower rate of motor tax* than buying the exact same car second hand here

*The imported car is subject to the new motor tax system of CO2 emissions. The car bought here is subject to the old motor tax system based on engine capacity. This obviously means the second hand value of low emissions Irish cars will drop as some of our regulars are realising with disgust...

The one chance in his life that Gormley could have made a difference in this world and show he stands for his and the Green Party's principles. But he is too much of a coward. Shame on you, John and your party. I don't like Micheal Martin either, but at least he had the balls to force through what he believed in when he had the chance. He will go into the history books. You won't.

Mr.Boots

Yea i got it UNKEL...cheers...just didnt read it rite.

dunno bout you...but it sounds like a nightmare for some but a giveaway for others....this will realy shake the motor industry in ireland.
Has anyone heard any official views expressed on the topic from AA, SIMI and the likes???

Bluehair

unkel wrote: »

Importing a second hand car with low emissions will attract a lower rate of motor tax* than buying the exact same car second hand here

Hold on a second here is this for real?

So if i import a pre July '08 car from the UK after July 08 then the new Co2 based motor tax will apply?!??

Was thinking about importing something like an early bmw 330d but this would mean if i hang till after July next year i'll only be paying (according to here at 177g/km) €600 a year road tax instead of €1109 today or €1231 after July!!

Am i picking this up wrong?

Mr.Boots

One shocker i noticed was the Mazda RX8 is gonna be 2k to tax :eek:

Bluehair

Wow, just checked out the bmw 335d coupe auto (with that lovely twin turbo diesel) and on the bmw website that would mean 177g/km.

That would mean road tax at only €600 a year (less than half) the original rate and a vrt rate a couple of percent lower too.

And when you take examples like that RX8 Mr.Boots mentions the second hand market is gonna get really messy....

unkel

Bluehair wrote: »

So if i import a pre July '08 car from the UK after July 08 then the new Co2 based motor tax will apply?!??

Yup!

Bluehair

Oh oh Audi A5 2.7tdi only 178g/km... (i'm getting waayy to excited about this , all the cars i thought would be way out of reach have suddenly got a lot more affordable)

Bluehair

unkel wrote: »

Yup!

AWESOME!! :eek: (and thanks for confirming that)

I don't suppose the new vrt system will apply as well or will they use the old system for cars originally registerd outside the state pre V-Day (vrt-day )

Mr.Boots

Another shocker...Mini cooper s....1000 tax yearly

Mr.Boots

Dose this mean pretty much the end for jap import wrx's, skylines, evos ect....cant see the average buyer of thses cars paying the extra vrt on top of the price and then the 2k tax a year.

Bluehair

Mr.Boots wrote: »

Another shocker...Mini cooper s....1000 tax yearly

Bonkers! So anyone currently with a Mini Cooper s is paying €391 a year in road tax (and will be paying €426 after the 9% increase) but anyone who buys after July '08 will be paying more than double the road tax!

I mean truth be told the CO2 system is probably better all round but i'm amazed they didn't attempt to stagger the introduction like some thought they might. I mean there's going to be lots of winners and losers in this system and a massive gulf between them...

Who the hells gonna buy an Irish post July 07 Mini Cooper S second hand in a couple of years when by going older they'll actively save themselves over €500 a year?

Same with the diesels... I test drove a '02 330d here recently that i was thinking about but i now have a huge incentive to wait until July to bring it in, not only to save myself over €600 a year in road tax but the car will be dramatically more attractive in the second hand market here afterwards.

Mr.Boots

I guess it will mean alot more mini diesels sold as cooper 's will depreciate quicker as they become less desirible in the used market( as big engined cars do now)
I can see there being more engine choice in ireland in the future, rather than manufactures lumping us with old design petrol and diesle engines (eg bmw 316) we will get a better choice as they compete for the lower co2's

remember in the 80's, having a sunroof was a huge selling point for new cars......Now low co2's will be the usp.

galwaytt

Bluehair wrote: »

Hold on a second here is this for real?

So if i import a pre July '08 car from the UK after July 08 then the new Co2 based motor tax will apply?!??

Well I think there is one anomaly here which will have to be clarified by the Dept.

After July 08, if you import a car with a published CO2/km figure, your car will be taxed under the new regime. Iirc, an 01 Audi TT 225, for example, will now cost 2k/year in stead of the (approx 500). Secondhand, irish registered examples will, therefore, appreciate in value, because no-one is going to import them anymore - would you, with a 2k p.a. tax bill???

If, on the other hand, and here's the confusion, after July 08, you import a car that has NO published CO/km figure - how much are they going to charge you. They say they may charge up to the maximum rate (which you can appeal). So, if you bring a 1993 Porsche, you'll be paying -what 2k/yr (max under new system) or Eur1343 (max under the cc system). So, which is it?

It's worse for 'small' cars. If you bring in a 1990's car, say a 1.8, for which there is no published figure (it wasn't mandatory to do so back then), you again may be taxed at the maximum. But what's that - the CO2maximum (2k), the cc maximum (€1343), or the old cc equivalent (€500 app).

More questions than answers.

Besides, the whole thing is nuts. There are app 2 million vehicles on the road in the state. To replace the fleet, at current rate of new car sales (170k p.a.), will take 11 years. So, the actual net effect of this ratchet down of car size will have little effect on the emissions of the natural fleet, for many years. And, if older cars (maybe because they become more 'desirable' ??) actually stay on the road longer, the effect they're after (reducing fleet CO2 emissions) - will take even longer.

It is one of the best con jobs ever pulled. Actually, I've just thought of a name for it Ocean’s 11 - Gormley's 11...........

Ice_Box

Ill be importing a 520D in July then.

martin1016

As I read it as the max new rate ie 2k per year if you do not have documentation to support otherwise. They do give you the right to prove otherwise but I assume that means you need to get some sort of test completed and I have no idea how you would go about it.

JHMEG

Forget diesels... import a hybrid: 11.25% VRT (under the old system, wayhay!), €100 road tax (new system).


Or buy one new: 14% VRT, €100 road tax, and a €2,500 grant (of sorts)!:D

"I will be providing for a further top-up relief up to €2,500 on the VRT payable on such cars."

redbag

Ice_Box wrote: »

Ill be importing a 520D in July then.

Was thinking of the same thing myself, but a point to note - the Co2 difference between the Sep 07 upgrade 520d and the initial E60 engine is quite a bit, so make sure you budget accordingly!

Cyrus

hmmm get an e46 m3 pre july or a 330cd post :cool:

Ice_Box

handy link
best in class green cars...(UK)
http://www.cleangreencars.co.uk/jsp/cgcmain.jsp?lnk=311&featureid=503&pageid=-1

mike65

I said on New Green Tax for motorists thread.

"The upshot of this will be a collapse in imports of petrol engined cars more than about 4 years old and a rise in diesels of any size and age".

Not true! I've just been checking Co2 for not very old school diesels (1995) 200 gCo2
is typical for 5/6 cylinder engines.

Mike.

E92

JHMEG wrote: »

Forget diesels... import a hybrid: 11.25% VRT (under the old system, wayhay!), €100 road tax (new system).


Or buy one new: 14% VRT, €100 road tax, and a €2,500 grant (of sorts)!:D

"I will be providing for a further top-up relief up to €2,500 on the VRT payable on such cars."

If you want a Prius or a Civic IMA great, otherwise the changes are very bad for Hybrids. Lexus LS600h, 32% VRT anyone? Or GS450h, 28% VRT? They're 15% now. How is that good?

E92

BMW 325i(EfficientDynamics only), straight 6 petrol engine, 218 bhp, 24% VRT(30% now), €430 VRT compared to €1491(from 1/2/08).

BMW 116i, 118i, 120i, 118d, 120d, 123d, 316i, 318i, 320i, 318d, 320d, 325i, 330i, 325d, 330d, 335d, 520d, 523i, 525i, 530i, 525d, 530d, 535d, 630i(Coupé only), 635d, X3 2.0d, and Z4 2.0i ALL benefit from the change(Manual and Auto boxes included). That's no less than 27 different BMWs!

I don't know about the other makes(well I'm aware of plenty of them but I'd be here forever listing them out) but I would say that ALL superminis(Yaris, Fiesta etc) and city cars (Panda, Aygo etc) will win, small family cars(Focus, Golf etc) EXCEPT for those with 1.4 engines and some performance versions, family/mini exec cars (Avensis/3 series/A4/Passat) with a diesel engine, exec cars with a diesel(5 series), small/midi MPVs/small 4X4's with paraffin stoves are all winners.

The losers seem to be cars with powerful petrol engines, hybrids(except for the Prius, Civic IMA), 1.4's in the Corolla category, petrol repmobiles, fast cars generally, 4X4's and MPV's that are big and/or have a petrol engine. Of course there are exceptions, the 325i has a 3.0 litre petrol engine and does 0-100 in 6.7 seconds and is limited to 250 km/h at the top end, but I think my analysis is as accurtate as it can be based on the generalisations I have made.

E92

Mr.Boots wrote: »

Another shocker...Mini cooper s....1000 tax yearly

No it doesn't.... 140 g/km CO2 is the 20% VRT(down from 25%) and it costs €290 a year to tax(only applies to manual box hatchback models).

Speaking of MINI, what about the Cooper D Hatchback? 102 g/km, 14% VRT, €100 a year to tax under the new scheme?

RobAMerc

oops wrong thread sorry

unkel

Cyrus wrote: »

hmmm get an e46 m3 pre july or a 330cd post :cool:

I like your style

(don't you mean a 335cd or is there no such thing?)

JHMEG

E92 wrote: »

If you want a Prius or a Civic IMA great, otherwise the changes are very bad for Hybrids. Lexus LS600h, 32% VRT anyone? Or GS450h, 28% VRT? They're 15% now. How is that good?

Ah come on! People with the cash to buy a LS600h or GS450h don't care about money!

Riskymove

JHMEG wrote: »

Ah come on! People with the cash to buy a LS600h or GS450h don't care about money!

while the Lexus are Hybrids and produce less emmissions than some similarly sized engines they still emit far higher emmissions than other smaller cars so therefore are punished under the systems

From the green point of view those kinda hybrids are pointless, its the civic/prius type they would like people to hav.......... if they must have a car:rolleyes:

Bluehair

E92 wrote: »

No it doesn't.... 140 g/km CO2 is the 20% VRT(down from 25%) and it costs €290 a year to tax(only applies to manual box hatchback models).

Speaking of MINI, what about the Cooper D Hatchback? 102 g/km, 14% VRT, €100 a year to tax under the new scheme?

They managed to slash the CO2 with the new turbocharged engine but importing an older supercharged one would mean co2 levels of over 200g/km and a grand a year road tax.

The Cooper D is one of the least polluting cars (from a co2 pov anyway) around so will end up very cheap to run, great car to import post V-Day.

Like Unkel suggested at the very start the large cc powerful diesels are really going to benefit hugely from this. The 335d, 535d and 635d are going to be amongst the quickest and most frugal cars on the road, interesting times ahead.

The whole thing has defintely changed my approach. I love powerful petrol engine cars but just can't justify it anymore. Luckily i also enjoy the torque (and economy) from the likes of the 330d but the road tax seemed prohibative enough that i just went for petrol anyway. No more.... (330d for me i reckon come July)

Power and economy? Yes please

JHMEG

Bluehair wrote: »

The 335d, 535d and 635d are going to be amongst the quickest and most frugal cars on the road, interesting times ahead.

Looks like we're all going to have to get BMWs.

galwaytt

JHMEG wrote: »

Looks like we're all going to have to get BMWs.

damn..........

TomMc

JHMEG wrote: »

Looks like we're all going to have to get BMWs.

or a Tandem.

Nelly23

E92 wrote: »

No it doesn't.... 140 g/km CO2 is the 20% VRT(down from 25%) and it costs €290 a year to tax(only applies to manual box hatchback models). QUOTE]

Is it not 141 g/km CO2 that incures 20% VRT and €290 tax and 140 g/km cars will instead have a VRT of 16% and annual tax of 150? I ask this because as plan to import an Audi A3 1.9tdi in July which has emmisions levels of 140 g/km (According to websites I have checked) and I'd hope it would fall in Band B and not Band C??

Gegerty

Wrong thread :-#

E92

Nelly23 wrote: »

E92 wrote: »

No it doesn't.... 140 g/km CO2 is the 20% VRT(down from 25%) and it costs €290 a year to tax(only applies to manual box hatchback models).

Is it not 141 g/km CO2 that incures 20% VRT and €290 tax and 140 g/km cars will instead have a VRT of 16% and annual tax of 150? I ask this because as plan to import an Audi A3 1.9tdi in July which has emmisions levels of 140 g/km (According to websites I have checked) and I'd hope it would fall in Band B and not Band C??

My apologies, indeed it does! The Cooper S is indeed at 16% VRT.

JackieChan

Was thinking of getting this...Audi A4 2.0 TDI, 105 kW (143 hp); combined fuel consumption 51.4 mpg; combined CO2 emissions 144 g/km..tax of of 290/year

On the motor tax alone that is some saving a year over current levels(about 592 including budget changes)

Preset No.3

Where do you find out about how prices will change? I found the CO2 calcuator and my current jeep is 250g/kms. What changes are the X5 going to have?

E92

Bluehair wrote: »

They managed to slash the CO2 with the new turbocharged engine but importing an older supercharged one would mean co2 levels of over 200g/km and a grand a year road tax.

The Cooper D is one of the least polluting cars (from a co2 pov anyway) around so will end up very cheap to run, great car to import post V-Day.

Like Unkel suggested at the very start the large cc powerful diesels are really going to benefit hugely from this. The 335d, 535d and 635d are going to be amongst the quickest and most frugal cars on the road, interesting times ahead.

The whole thing has defintely changed my approach. I love powerful petrol engine cars but just can't justify it anymore. Luckily i also enjoy the torque (and economy) from the likes of the 330d but the road tax seemed prohibative enough that i just went for petrol anyway. No more.... (330d for me i reckon come July)

Power and economy? Yes please

Don't forget that EfficientDynamics 6 pot petrol BMW's are VERY close to Efficient Dynamics 6 pot diesels for CO2. The only one that is worse is the 335i.

All the others come extremely close, they're even in the same VRT band. So the large capacity petrol engine isn't dead just yet!


Here's a comparison.

325i Man E90: 170g/km, 24% VRT
325i Auto E90: 170 g/km, 24% VRT
325d Man E90: 155/158 g/km, 20% VRT
325d Auto E90: 169/172 g/km, 24% VRT
330i Man E90: 173/175 g/km, 28% VRT
330i Auto E90: 173/178 g/km, 28% VRT
330d Man E90: 160 g/km, 24% VRT
330d Auto E90: 175 g/km, 28% VRT

325i Man E91: 173 g/km, 28% VRT
325i Auto E91: 173 g/km, 28% VRT
325d Man E91: 158 g/km, 24% VRT
325d Auto E91: 172 g/km, 28% VRT
330i Man E91: 175 g/km, 28% VRT
330i Auto E91: 178 g/km, 28% VRT
330d Man E91: 163 g/km, 24% VRT
330d Auto E91: 176 g/km, 28% VRT

325i Man E92: 170 g/km, 24% VRT
325i Auto E92: 170 g/km, 24% VRT
325d Man E92: 155 g/km, 20% VRT
325d Auto E92: 169 g/km, 24% VRT
330i Man E92: 173 g/km, 28% VRT
330i Auto E92: 173 g/km, 28% VRT
330d Man E92: 160 g/km, 24% VRT
330d Auto E92: 175 g/km, 28% VRT

325i Man E93: 181 g/km, 28% VRT
325i Auto E93: 187 g/km, 28% VRT
325d Man E93: 164 g/km, 24% VRT
325d Auto E93: 176 g/km, 28% VRT
330i Man E93: 185 g/km, 28% VRT
330i Auto E93: 187 g/km, 28% VRT
330d Man E93: 170 g/km, 24% VRT
330d Auto E93: 181 g/km, 28% VRT

E90 is saloon, E91 is touring, E92 is Coupé, and E93 is Convertible.
So it is very clear that in the case of Auto boxes, the diesel is NO BETTER than the petrol for VRT bar one or 2 case and only few g/km better in many cases. Of course this ONLY applies to EfficientDynamics models. It DOES NOT apply to models without EfficientDynamics, so anyone who is importing/thinking of importing this is extremely important. Non Efficient Dynamics models are only a fraction better than similar cars from rival makes(though still better IIRC). The 330i Auto saloon does 0-100 in 6.3 seconds. I don't have the time to be looking at the 5 series, but AFAIR the difference between 6 pot petrol and diesel is very small again just like with the 3 series.

As I say the diesels are only a few g/km better on CO2 and also only a fraction better on mpg(325i Auto 39.8, 325d Auto 44.1), so I fail to see how a switch to diesel in the case of the BMW is really going to slash fuel bills/tax. If the only thing putting you off but 6 pot petrols is the cost, well I'm just after showing you than EfficientDynamics petrols are nearly as good as their diesel counterparts, in fact the 325i and 330i are AS ECONOMICAL(in fact the 325i does 0.6 mpg MORE than the 318i) under the EU tests as the 318i was in the old 3 series!

Tabnabs

For me personally, a quick flick around carzone.ie puts paid to any BMW of the vintage and mileage that I would consider reasonable. But the next car will most definitely be a diesel, nice Saab 9-3 diesel maybe :cool:

Bluehair

Dyflin wrote: »

For me personally, a quick flick around carzone.ie puts paid to any BMW of the vintage and mileage that I would consider reasonable.

Thing is though this will be vastly different for imports. I'm seriously considering a 330d touring for July (prob a '02 or '03) and the savings due to the new system are, in a word, huge. Prices for Irish cars of the same year are going to suffer massively as not only will it be cheaper to import one (better spec too) from the UK but it will have an annual road tax liability of half the Irish cars.

There'll be war yet over how this has been implimented as some cars will suffer massive depreciation while others will actually find their pre V-Day cars worth more than those registered post V-Day.

JHMEG

Bluehair wrote: »

it be cheaper to import one (better spec too) from the UK but it will have an annual road tax liability of half the Irish cars.

But hold on.. won't the VRT on 2nd hand cars still done by the old system.

.Longshanks.

Not if its imported after July 1st.

PaddyFagan wrote: »

I'll try

• Any car registered in Ireland now or registered before the 1st July 2008* will be subject to the existing VRT and Road Tax schemes, all be it with a 9% increase in Road Tax
• Any car registered in Ireland on or after 1st July 2008* will be subject to the new VRT and Road Tax schemes - both designed to make cars which produce less carbon per km travelled cheaper. (Small Diesel Engines, Hybrids, etc)

* This means that new registrations or imports into Ireland after the 1st July 2008 will be subject to the new VRT and Road Tax schemes, in the case of imports this is the case irrespective of the date of orignal registration in the country of origin.

Mr.Boots

E92 wrote: »

No it doesn't.... 140 g/km CO2 is the 20% VRT(down from 25%) and it costs €290 a year to tax(only applies to manual box hatchback models).

Speaking of MINI, what about the Cooper D Hatchback? 102 g/km, 14% VRT, €100 a year to tax under the new scheme?

Sorry...meant to say a Mini Cooper s "Convertible" is 1000 euro

pontovic

So, just to make it absolutely clear, if I want to import lets say, a diesel ford focus 1.8 in november 2008, my car will be taxed based on emissions instead of engine size, given that the car iself would be from 2001 or 2002 ?

quarryman

YES! This has been stated at least 28 times on this thread AND sticky'd and discussed in this forum. How much clarification do you need?!

pontovic

Thank you quarryman. I do need alot of clarification as you can see because a car is not just for the summer, it's for life! It just seemed to good to be true that's all

Much love

stifz

Here comes another confused poster...

If i have a 95 e220 auto merc.. is my tax just effected by the 9% increase and thats it??