(Attached); Stigma

qballirl

Can some one please tell me what is the stigma attached to BMW drivers because allot of people seem to have a problem with us, i noticed this especially in big German cars. Can some one tell me i baffled are you jealous?

mikemac

It sure isn't jealously!

Matt Simis

3 Series is the sales rep mobile of choice, other than that Im not aware of a stigma. X5 is a bit of a Surrey school Mum car I guess.

NBar

Matt Simis wrote: »

3 Series is the sales rep mobile of choice, other than that Im not aware of a stigma. X5 is a bit of a Surrey school Mum car I guess.

Is Surrey in Ireland now :rolleyes:

eamon234

I've worked for a lot of companies who had fleet cars I've never once seen a BMW unless it was a director - certainly never seen a rep with one! This is probably the case in the UK all right but not here.

pburns

I think a lot of it stems from out-dated caricatures from Thatcher's Britain where Beemers were the default marques of choice for the young, brash, obnoxious, upwardly-mobile set.

Audi's '90s ad for the A4 MkI (at the time Audi was very much a poor relation in the prestige sector) brilliantly lampooned this image. A brash, chavtastic bloke takes an A4 for a test drive, declaring at the end 'Nah, not really my style mate, know what I mean?'. The immaculately groomed, debonair salesman gives a knowing smile to camera.

I don't think it really rings through in Ireland. While I find the X5, X3 and the like a bit loathsome, the so called 'obnoxious' buy just as many Mercs, Audis etc. At least the Beemers can lay some claim to being drivers cars with brilliant engineering. I had to laugh yesterday when I heard Louis Walsh (who has just bought a Quattroporte) on the radio castigating Mercs as 'Irish builders cars':D.

ec18

The Quattroporte is a cool car......sorry was a cool car....Louis Walsh just bought one

LuckyStar

When I worked in a supermarket during college, the non-disabled people that would take the disabled spaces (even though there were normal spaces about 8 feet behind them) would always be BMW, Mercedes or Range Rover drivers.

ninty9er

I think it's more to do with the automatic indicator presumption that most BMW drivers have. or the fact they rarely use mirrors in most people's experience.

Now I have in rare cases some across the odd BMW driver who is courteous, the one in particular I remember was on an awful day coming to the end of the M7 near Roscrea (??), but the fact that I remembered it just goes to prove the point that most BMW drivers think they own the road

Anan1

qballirl wrote: »

Can some one please tell me what is the stigma attached to BMW drivers because allot of people seem to have a problem with us, i noticed this especially in big German cars. Can some one tell me i baffled are you jealous?

I think you've answered your own question.

Sandwich

qballirl wrote: »

Can some one please tell me what is the stigma attached to BMW drivers because allot of people seem to have a problem with us, i noticed this especially in big German cars. Can some one tell me i baffled are you jealous?

Certainly not jealousy (pity and amusement maybe;)).

BMWs are in the main very fine cars, and in some cases, even the best in their classes (as machines - not as value for money). More of us would probably buy one were it not for the stigma that you mention, that now comes with owning one. Which is unfortunate for us, but we wouldnt like to mistaken for the type of person who drives a BM these days, who :

- in general has no idea what makes the BMW the good car it is
- notices the number plate year before the type of car
- is superficial and uncultured
- is concerned with projecting an image of affluence
- is a 'brand follower' to make up for being unable to judge the merits of a consumer good themselves
- is competitive and wishes to feel superior towards others
- is financially ambitious and uses their car to display their current 'score'
- some (not all!) are pushy and aggressive and have a lower tolerance for respect of social and legal rules.

I am not sure if this is a phenomenon that is exclusive to Britain and Ireland. It seems to have risen to prominence during the Lawson boom in the UK, and during the Celtic Tiger years in Ireland. It may have existed prior to that but lack of funds prevented many from achieving their desires and so it was less evident. Rapid growth and rising affluence has allowed more people to show their colours in this respect.

The above is not meant to provoke, but to help you understand how other see you.

pburns

Nay, I was talking to an Aston driver once who dismissed BMWs as 'lacking cachet'. Now that's someone who:

Sandwich wrote: »

- is concerned with projecting an image of affluence
- is a 'brand follower' to make up for being unable to judge the merits of a consumer good themselves
- is competitive and wishes to feel superior towards others
- is financially ambitious and uses their car to display their current 'score'

You're probably have a point though. Although it depends on the model in question. I'd consider a 320d as a very discerning choice while a 316 is just SAD...

Johnny Storm

NBar wrote: »

Is Surrey in Ireland now :rolleyes:

Yes - judging by the way a lot of people in Dublin act.

Mr.Diagnostic

What Stigma?

Gumbo

Matt Simis wrote: »

3 Series is the sales rep mobile of choice, other than that Im not aware of a stigma. X5 is a bit of a Surrey school Mum car I guess.

take that back, im offended LOL

Sandwich

NBar wrote: »

Is Surrey in Ireland now :rolleyes:

We have the Sandymount, Rathgar, Dalkey triangle instead. The best roads have lots of nasty speed bumps making it, like, sooo necessary to have a car thats suited to them.........

Fundamentally its just about wealth display. Once you have he right badge on the front, the next step is to have a BIGGER car than the rest, even if they have the right brand too.

Display escalation follows the following general trend:

1. VW Polo - cant afford the BM yet, but at least its German.
2. VW Golf or Audi A3 - bit more size, bit more power. BMW next time!!!
3. 3Series compact for girls or last model 3 Series coupe for the guys. Yes, Ive made it!
4. 3 Series. New car for the first time, and bigger and better.
5a. 5 Series for the guys - Power! Toys!
5b. X3 for the girls - Dont understand power or toys. But its big!
6b. 7 Series for the guys. Nirvana has been reached and we can look down on the rest of the world.
6b. X5 for the girls. Still dont understand the guys. X5 is Even Bigger!!!! And we can really look down on the rest of the world!

Johnny Storm

NBar wrote: »

Is Surrey in Ireland now :rolleyes:

Yes - judging by the way a lot of people in Dublin act.

JHMEG

Younger people in this country who are obsessed with the trappings of wealth buy BMWs. To them it's an "I've made it" statement; a status symbol. Then they talk endlessly about their B-M, even if it is a P.O.S. compact or 316 or Z3 (which state "I'm a fool and easily parted with my money"), or a 325, 520 or whatever.

Of course then there are people who have genuinely made it and drive BMWs.

And last but not least, the reason why the rest of us feel we are different from BMW drivers: we drive what we do because we like the actual car. Of course all BMW owners will say this is the reason, and the badge/status stuff has nothing to do with it.

Matt Simis

kceire wrote: »

take that back, im offended LOL

RE: X5s ust dont buy a silver one and youll be grand.
For that matter, dont buy a silver BM of any ttpe.

Ive a flashy and big German car(s) too mind you, so regarding stigmas no doubt Im in a similar boat.
The big issue in Ireland of course is that people dont want to see others success and BMW have that illogical reputation as a "the successful" persons car.

JHMEG

Sandwich wrote: »

6b. 7 Series for the guys. Nirvana has been reached and we can look down on the rest of the world.

I would agree with the rest, but not this. The 7-series is unique in that it's bought new by those who truly have made it (and can look down if they want.. they've earned it), or 2nd hand by those who spot the amount of car that can be had for little money due to record depreciation. Neither of the above type people feel the need to make public statements.

Sandwich

Matt Simis wrote: »

Ive a flashy and big German car(s) too mind you, so regarding stigmas no doubt Im in a similar boat.
The big issue in Ireland of course is that people dont want to see others success and BMW have that illogical reputation as a "the successful" persons car.

Dont think you are in the same boat. I think the stigma applies only to BMWs.
Mercs are the nearest cost, quality and prestige wise but I dont think the same attitude to their drivers exist. None at all would apply to Audi, Volvo, Saab or Lexus drivers (except by the BMW drivers who would be wondering what idiot would buy one of those when they could afford The Real Thing - a BMW).
Nor do I think its about not wanting to see others success. The driver of an E80000 S80 or A6 would not be regarded as the same character as a 5 Series person.
I think its more about the common traits of BMW drivers that a particular type of person seems to gravitate towards BMWs.

Captain Slow IRL

ignore the riff-raff, qball - they are just jealous:D

doesn't matter what car you drive, doesn't stop you or make you a d!ck-head

Sandwich

JHMEG wrote: »

I would agree with the rest, but not this. The 7-series is unique in that it's bought new by those who truly have made it (and can look down if they want.. they've earned it), or 2nd hand by those who spot the amount of car that can be had for little money due to record depreciation. Neither of the above type people feel the need to make public statements.

Some (if just a little) truth here.

I remember struggling to stiffle my mirth when it was put to a man due to change his 3 year old 530 or 535 for the umteenth time - was it not time to move to a 7 series? The reply : "A car that size and expensive is just vulgar".

Sandwich

land9 wrote: »

ignore the riff-raff, qball - they are just jealous:D

doesn't matter what car you drive, doesn't stop you or make you a d!ck-head

Concluding it must be jealousy must make you one of them land9 - an "already has one" or a "wanna get one".

Gumbo

Matt Simis wrote: »

RE: X5s ust dont buy a silver one and youll be grand.
For that matter, dont buy a silver BM of any ttpe.

Ive a flashy and big German car(s) too mind you, so regarding stigmas no doubt Im in a similar boat.
The big issue in Ireland of course is that people dont want to see others success and BMW have that illogical reputation as a "the successful" persons car.

LOL
as you can probably guess from my signiture, i have a blue one!

peasant

Anybody who says in this day and age that there is some sort of "stigma" or whatever attached to owning/driving a BMW displays a severe case of wishful thinking (or BMW marketing brainwash )

FFS ...everybody and their grandmother has one these days ...the sheen has loooong gone

EDIT:
Coming to think of it ...this is probably the reason why some BMW drivers behave as they do (according to cliche) ...they're just fed up that nobody recognises their "achievement" of owning a BMW and feel the need to get some attention forcefully.

It probably a manifestation of that wonderful Irish trait; begrudgery!

JHMEG

ronoc wrote: »

It probably a manifestation of that wonderful Irish trait; begrudgery!

In this case I actually don't think it is.

littlejukka

generalisations about how people perceive you driving a particular car are a bit pathetic, especially when they're uphelp by the people who drive them.

omega man

Really doubt its jealousy unless its a high end model. I offloaded my 320D as it just wasnt what i thought it would be. I guess i really wanted the badge but what i really wanted was the badge and big power and that means serious cash bmw wise. However, i did notice more hand signals coming my way when i had the bmw but there is a fair share of ignorant toss pots driving bmw's too.

kaiser sauze

BMW: "Not Quite Able to Afford a Mercedes".

Seriously, there are more BMWs sold than Ford Mondeos in the UK. I expect similar here. Why pay a premium for a badge that no longer has exclusivity?

Elessar

I am a young guy who drives a BMW. I'm curteous on the road, I don't care about brand names, I don't feel superior, I'm not competitive, I'm not a sheep and I don't care what people think about my car. It's not an "I've made it" statement, and I rarely talk about it.

I love driving the car because it has superb handling, is a joy to drive, has a great interior and it looks pretty good to boot. And it's not a basic 316 either, it's an etremely high spec 6 cylinder coupe (and no I'm not bragging).

Actually I'm glad there are more and more on the road as it's less likely mine will be a target for thieves.

So, you know, not every BMW driver is a stereotype.

Tabnabs

If you think that there are any air and graces about the bmw or the merc, take a spin around west Dublin some day. It's where all the old cars seem to end up (usually pimped out too). The sheen wares off the badge very quickly... :eek:

Victor_M

kaiser sauze wrote: »

BMW: "Not Quite Able to Afford a Mercedes".

Seriously, there are more BMWs sold than Ford Mondeos in the UK. I expect similar here. Why pay a premium for a badge that no longer has exclusivity?

Jasus lads get over yourselves.

Have you not noticed the onslaught of ignorance from Commercial jeep drivers (troopers, land cruisers driving like lunatics etc) as well as the "I've a rocket" of a 1.9 T(red)D, (Red) I, VAG drivers (golfs, A4's, passats) not to mention the Glanza's and Jap racers tearing around the place, with their fogs on.
I have never once been visually (hand signal) abused in my car, I get let out, and likewise let others in and out no differently than any brand of car.

This 80's steroetype b0ll0x is hilarious. It used to be begrudery, and I suspect is some cases it still is.

Sandwich, you have spent wayyyy too much time thinking about this, which to me suggests you have some sort of an issue with BMW drivers (for whatever reason!)

As for the popularity of 3 series, despite the cynics on here, they are a very good car, just as the A4 and the (new) C class are, to mention but a few.

And there are plenty of cars out there that are absolutely rubbish, alot of people don't realise they are rubbish because they haven't driven anything better!

Just because some of you think that anything above and beyond what you drive is ostentatious or flashy doesn't make it so!

kaiser sauze

Victor_M wrote: »

Jasus lads get over yourselves.

Have you not noticed the onslaught of ignorance from Commercial jeep drivers (troopers, land cruisers driving like lunatics etc) as well as the "I've a rocket" of a 1.9 T(red)D, (Red) I, VAG drivers (golfs, A4's, passats) not to mention the Glanza's and Jap racers tearing around the place, with their fogs on.
I have never once been visually (hand signal) abused in my car, I get let out, and likewise let others in and out no differently than any brand of car.

This 80's steroetype b0ll0x is hilarious. It used to be begrudery, and I suspect is some cases it still is.

Sandwich, you have spent wayyyy too much time thinking about this, which to me suggests you have some sort of an issue with BMW drivers (for whatever reason!)

As for the popularity of 3 series, despite the cynics on here, they are a very good car, just as the A4 and the (new) C class are, to mention but a few.

And there are plenty of cars out there that are absolutely rubbish, alot of people don't realise they are rubbish because they haven't driven anything better!

Just because some of you think that anything above and beyond what you drive is ostentatious or flashy doesn't make it so!

Oh, I don't dispute that its a good car (the three series). I said that people are paying a premium for a tarnished badge. You can get a better, larger, more comfortable car, for the same money.

And you are quite right, there are other ignorant drivers on the road than BMW drivers.

Captain Slow IRL

Sandwich wrote: »

Concluding it must be jealousy must make you one of them land9 - an "already has one" or a "wanna get one".

Look on ebay for a sense of humour and then read it again:rolleyes:

rebel.ranter

My pet hate are Fiesta drivers, they are frequently ignorant of the rules of the road & almost 100% of them drive with their fog lights permanently on! They are always the ones in the wrong lane.#
Pet hate #2 is those cheap Xenon conversion kits.

The BMW stereotype is well knocked on the head these days due to the volume of them sold. I would hardly call them exclusive or item affluence now.

Lexus to me is the best marketing exercise yet, a rebadged Toyota so they can squeeze a few more quid out of the image conscious punters. Toyotas are very good cars but lack the "right" image hence the advent of Lexus (I think Nissan have done the same in the US with the Inifnity brand, Honda with Acura). Case in point, I have a Land Cruiser commercial for work & my sis in-law (to be) has a Lexus 400h, it is shocking the amount of carry over in to the Lexus for the premium she paid over the price of the Land Cruiser!

I have driven many different luxury cars in my time & BMW is well up there in terms of refinement & driver satisfaction, some of their older models put some "new releases" from other manufacturers to shame. So to say that people buy them purely for image would be completely wrong, in fact most people I know who that own a BMW are enthusiasts, in fact there is a sizeable proportion of BMW owners on this very forum!

I feel it has been going the other way for quite a while now with the BMW brand, the prestige & exclusivity is gone. The 1 series is around a while now. It's only a matter of time before we see a MPV to compete with the likes of the Ford Galaxy (probably a bit more expensive price wise mind).

smcgiff

kaiser sauze wrote: »

BMW: "Not Quite Able to Afford a Mercedes".

I nearly ordered a 325d for Jan '08, but ended up going with an Alfa 159 TI. But there is no way a Mercedes would have been entertained. From what I could see if you could afford a BMW, you could afford a Merc - if your taste was so inclined.


Although it was the particular BMW salesman that put me off, I think Sandwhich listed enough reasons not to buy one.

lassykk

smcgiff wrote: »

I nearly ordered a 325d for Jan '08, but ended up going with an Alfa 159 TI. But there is no way a Mercedes would have been entertained. From what I could see if you could afford a BMW, you could afford a Merc - if your taste was so inclined.


Although it was the particular BMW salesman that put me off, I think Sandwhich listed enough reasons not to buy one.

you cant buy taste like that... congrats on makin a great decision on your new car.

i must admit i enjoyed readin dis thread esp the list moving from the polo through to the 7 series... hit de nail on de head

lightening

LuckyStar wrote: »

the non-disabled people that would take the disabled spaces (even though there were normal spaces about 8 feet behind them) would always be BMW....

I have come across this a lot. It seems to always be a BMW!

Matt Simis

JHMEG wrote: »

In this case I actually don't think it is.

I dunno, about 3wks ago I was driving somewhere with my parents in the back. We saw a new model 7 Series in Gun Metal grey, UK Reg which said "CEO" xxx. My brother and I thought it looked pretty sweet, but my mother immediately said "sure you know he probably embezzled money from his company for that". Obviously meant in half jest, but its a typical off the cuff remark that still exists in Ireland.

While it wouldnt apply to a 3 series, anything biggers gets on the radar.

jayok

Yawn - I drive a 325Ci after 10 years of Honda's. (There's a CRV in the immediately family too). I really, really, couldn't give a sh1te if somone thinks:

1. I embezzled the money for it
2. That I am a twat
3. That I borrowed to the hilt for it
4. That I bought it for the badge
5. That I can't indicate

Or whatever - I am who I am and people who have such pre-conceptions on the basis of what I drive I have no interest in anyway.

For me, I wanted a refined rear wheel drive, six-pot engine. The Lexus IS200 was just too much an over-priced Toyota and Mercedes was just too old feeling for me. Not a whole lot of options from there, now was there.

Next for me, there'll be a 730d - not that I've made it or anything. Its just that driving in Ireland is such a bore I may as well be comfortable.

Sandwich

jayok wrote: »

For me, I wanted a refined rear wheel drive, six-pot engine. The Lexus IS200 was just too much an over-priced Toyota and Mercedes was just too old feeling for me. Not a whole lot of options from there, now was there.

Next for me, there'll be a 730d - not that I've made it or anything. Its just that driving in Ireland is such a bore I may as well be comfortable.

Crikey:D Is this for real? Or are you just trying to reinforce the stereotype?

I love the idea of turning away from a car, not because of what it is, but of what it is too closely related to.
And, I know, driving is just so boring - even in a 325Ci - not to mention uncomfortable. It takes a 7 series to make it barely tolerable at all. How do people in Fiestas tolerate their existance at all?

Sandwich

Elessar wrote: »

I am a young guy who drives a BMW. I'm curteous on the road, I don't care about brand names, I don't feel superior, I'm not competitive, I'm not a sheep and I don't care what people think about my car. It's not an "I've made it" statement, and I rarely talk about it.

I love driving the car because it has superb handling, is a joy to drive, has a great interior and it looks pretty good to boot. And it's not a basic 316 either, it's an etremely high spec 6 cylinder coupe (and no I'm not bragging).

Actually I'm glad there are more and more on the road as it's less likely mine will be a target for thieves.

So, you know, not every BMW driver is a stereotype.

Quite likely not. In fact some BMW drivers are quite nice. The stereotype just applies to a significant majority.

You are just collateral damage being tarred with the same brush - a reason some people would shy away from owning one even though they are fine cars.

Sandwich

kaiser sauze wrote: »

BMW: "Not Quite Able to Afford a Mercedes".

Seriously, there are more BMWs sold than Ford Mondeos in the UK. I expect similar here. Why pay a premium for a badge that no longer has exclusivity?

Its more than the exclusivity. Its the cost, and the image that has built up over 30 or 40 years when most Irish people couldnt even dream of owning one. Now they can so they are living out the pent up desire.

Victor_M

Sandwich wrote: »

Quite likely not. In fact some BMW drivers are quite nice. The stereotype just applies to a significant majority.

You are just collateral damage being tarred with the same brush - a reason some people would shy away from owning one even though they are fine cars.

Jasus sandwich, your cracking me up here, this is brilliant, observation and statistics all according to the sandwich!

Alot of people shy away from them because they can't afford them too! That wouldn't be your reason though of course, you'd have one if it wasn't for the fella you saw parking in the wheelchair spot with his fog lights on!

Bitter little man, I've met a few of your type in the past, get over it and stop paying so much attention to BMW's if you can't stand them or their drivers so much.

Victor_M

Sandwich wrote: »

Its more than the exclusivity. Its the cost, and the image that has built up over 30 or 40 years when most Irish people couldnt even dream of owning one. Now they can so they are living out the pent up desire.

........or maybe they are a much better car than a mondeo?

Marcus.Aurelius

Interesting thread.

Really nice to see the BMW (Broke Me Wallet) drivers getting a bit of stick. Also nice to hear some well-thought out banter, among the sea of insane posts.

I think BMWs have become ten a penny, and are a symbol of blinkered thinking, keeping up with the Jones', or just not thinking at all. BMW = He's made it, (and just spent it on a badge)

Better than Mercedes, yes, I'll agree to that. But still nowhere near the Japanese for quality engineering.

legs11

BMW's are superior in the comfort department to their jap counterparts man,

the high performance 6 potters are perfectly beautiful driving cars, and if looked after they would last as long as jap cars

im not anti jap, have owned both jap and bm's

but anyhoooo

back to the topic

JHMEG

legs11 wrote: »

BMW's are superior in the comfort department to their jap counterparts man,

I spent most of last weekend driving a '00 318. Which is a 1.9 according to the tax disc. It could best be described as bland. Really bland. The Avensis is probably a better car in every department. And despite having only 70k miles on the clock there was some serious rattling going on in the back.

EDIT: Pedals suspiciously close together, like a girl's car (eg Corsa, 206), and is that lump beside the clutch that my left foot was scraping off supposed to be a foot rest? Seriouly bad ergonomics going on there with the driving position.

JohnCleary

Boll1x to that. I bought a diesel 3series for a few reasons:

Good economy
Comfortable driving
It was what I could afford
(Would have bought a 330d if i had some more money for tax/insurance)

I couldn't give a ****e what others think - I get stick off my mates the odd time 'Aah look here comes the beemer driver' - WTF is that even supposed to mean? I use my indicators, I don't drive like a looney etc...

BTW best purchase ever, being able to drive 100 miles for around a tenner, comfortably is sweet