Ennis Athenry flying along

Navan Junction

Drove along a stretch of the Ennis Athenry line last week, and there are workers and diggers all along the 8 mile stretch or so I passed along.

As usual, I had the camera with me so here are some pics.

I wouldn't be surprised of EA opens ahead of schedule at the rate work was going on - they were even working on the crossing gates at Craughwell.

There's efficiency for ya!

All of these pics were taken with about half an hour or so of each other at different locations - it looks way busier than the KRP works.

Navan Junction

More pics.

The single track bridges are different to what you'd normally see about

Poxyshamrock

Fantastic work going on there!
Cheers for the photos NJ

Navan Junction

No worries - that's all of them now.

To be honest, I was and still am completely amazed at the activity levels there - I know work has been going on for a while but they are making serious progress.

John R

Nice pics.

It just highlights how poor the alignments are, lots of severe curves and some steep gradients.

murphaph

John R wrote: »

Nice pics.

It just highlights how poor the alignments are, lots of severe curves and some steep gradients.

Just what I was thinking. Not a straight line in sight. I was out along the new Adamstown link road which runs right beside the Kildare line today-not one dayglow man in sight. Shows where the votes, erm I mean transport priorities are I guess.

enterprise

murphaph wrote: »

Just what I was thinking. Not a straight line in sight. I was out along the new Adamstown link road which runs right beside the Kildare line today-not one dayglow man in sight. Shows where the votes, erm I mean transport priorities are I guess.

Somewhat unfair comment I think. The WRC is a closed line, under possession 24 hours a day so the builders have total control of the line and can work away to their hearts content. The KRP on the other hand is a different beast, major work only takes place for a few hours at night time when no trains are running. Saying that on my travels up and down the Cork line recently I have seen plently of daytime working going on in preparing the formation and building new stations

murphaph

I knew in posting I'd be quoted in short order. There are I'm sure plenty of reasons we can find for the KRP taking so bloody long. We shouldn't even be discussing them though because the blasted project should have been started years ago.

Anyone who thinks Ennis-Athenry is going to make a major impact is well, wrong. I don't have a problem with it. I am ok with it's construction. I think it just shows where government's priorities lie that Dublin&Cork rail projects are all delayed while the Ennis-Athenry project looks to be ahead of schedule.

corktina

any one viiewing those curves and gradients still believe its an Inter City route? what the likely speed limit, especially in view of the many many level crossings?

Chris_533976

More work going on there than on the Midleton line... which along with Navan rail should be a higher priority than Ennis - Athenry. But that argument is for another thread

murphaph

corktina wrote: »

any one viiewing those curves and gradients still believe its an Inter City route? what the likely speed limit, especially in view of the many many level crossings?

Who knows. It actually (no joking!) looks like a rollercoaster in one or two of those pics. This twisty relaid relic of a bygone age will have to compete with a brand new N18 or quite possibly M18 which will take a more direct route and allow speeds up to 120km/h. I dare say the average speed on the railway will be far far lower. I'm not trumpeting road over rail-stupid argument. I am pointing out that in this case the railway was not a great option. The switchback at Athenry won't help at all.

Perhaps WoT should have lobbied for the Galway-Limerick alignment to be relaid in a more direct manner and sacrificed the notion of a connection north of Athenry for a while or if the focus had been put on quality commuter rail traffic into Limerick and Galway along the existing lines first people could take a coach from Limerick to a P&R in Oranmore and then a choice of frequent trains direct to Eyre Square.

When this thing opens and is in competition with the coach on the M18 we'll see what people opt for.

Victor

I understand it is expected to have a 50mph limit.

murphaph

Victor wrote: »

I understand it is expected to have a 50mph limit.

Some of those curves will be lower though, right? I take it the max speed even on the 'straight' bits is to be 50mph.

The more one looks at this the more ludicrous it seems. The line has an indirect approach to/from Limerick, an indirect approach to/from Galway and a slow maximum speed. It saddens me that meaningful and relevant commuter services for both cities could have been funded instead of this token gesture to 'Inter city' travel.

Navan Junction

murphaph wrote: »

The switchback at Athenry won't help at all.

Not sure that the switchback will be a prob.. I looked at it whilst I was there and it looked more straight forward than Killarney in that there wouldn't be any shunting type movements. It just seems that the driver would have to switch ends whcih I know will delay things for a few minutes but not hugely.

Just wondering does anyone know the situation with the track itself? The curves seem to be conrete sleepers and new rails, but much of the straighter sections seem to be a mix of new concrete sleeper track, new wooden sleeper track and second-hand wooden sleeper track.

Is the second hand stuff temporary?

Navan Junction

Another one

Chris_533976

Only problem with the N/M18 will be the fact that you'll still get bogged down in traffic in Galway and Limerick. Thats where the rail could be useful, as you'd miss that.

Though I trust that Irish Rail, in their infinite excellence, will royally mess up somehow and have a service that noone wants.

Ham'nd'egger

Victor wrote: »

I understand it is expected to have a 50mph limit.

The trackwork is fit for 70MPH working. The amount of sections that will be worked at 70MPH is another story.

Navan Junction

Hamndegger wrote: »

The trackwork is fit for 70MPH working

It didn't strike me that anything was being held back on (though I am curious about the second hand wooden sleeper sections).

At least if they are doing it, they are are doing it properly (unlike the Navan Drogheda line where they are nearly finished laying second hand stuff)

murphaph

Hamndegger are you saying the whole line is technically capable of sustained 70mph running or just certain sections of it?

Ham'nd'egger

murphaph wrote: »

Hamndegger are you saying the whole line is technically capable of sustained 70mph running or just certain sections of it?

The metal track and sleepers laid on the WRC is capable of carrying trains at 70MPH. This does not mean that trains will travel at this speed at all times on the WRC; curves on the track, gradients, bridges, tunnels, signals, passing points, train types, location of track, track type etc will slow trains down on any route; the speed restrictions on lines will be based on these factors.

Navan, some sections of tracks will still have wooden sleeper sections sitting to allow track laying trains to access sections (As you see from some of your pics, they are either in situ or take out) or in cases where renewal is either impractical or uncalled for; some sections of London Underground have wooden sleepers, as does Tara Street station and parts of Connolly. Navan-Drogheda doesn't need CWR yet it has some sections laid in the last few years.

murphaph

Hamndegger wrote: »

The metal track and sleepers laid on the WRC is capable of carrying trains at 70MPH. This does not mean that trains will travel at this speed at all times on the WRC; curves on the track, gradients, bridges, tunnels, signals, passing points, train types, location of track, track type etc will slow trains down on any route; the speed restrictions on lines will be based on these factors.

Ah right so the line (as opposed to the track, ballast and sleepers) is not 70mph capable due mainly to the bendy nature of the alignment? I hear trains on the Limerick-Ennis stretch take quite a long time and travel quite slowly. I guess this new bit will be an extension of this setup.

Navan Junction

Hamndegger wrote: »

Navan, some sections of tracks will still have wooden sleeper sections sitting to allow track laying trains to access sections (As you see from some of your pics, they are either in situ or take out) or in cases where renewal is either impractical or uncalled for

That's fair enough. The line is fairly well bridged and I can only count 13 level crossings along it - do you know if any of them will be extinguished. I saw the one being worked on on the n6 but I'd have thought that'd be a candidate to be bridged

Ham'nd'egger

murphaph wrote: »

Ah right so the line (as opposed to the track, ballast and sleepers) is not 70mph capable due mainly to the bendy nature of the alignment? I hear trains on the Limerick-Ennis stretch take quite a long time and travel quite slowly. I guess this new bit will be an extension of this setup.

Yes, the rail is capable but the route may not be so in places. The section from Limerick to Ennis has a speed limit of 40MPH so speeds are low on it; I understand some trackwork is due on it in the new year as well as signalling improvements.

Ham'nd'egger

Navan Junction wrote: »

That's fair enough. The line is fairly well bridged and I can only count 13 level crossings along it - do you know if any of them will be extinguished. I saw the one being worked on on the n6 but I'd have thought that'd be a candidate to be bridged

There is a lot of bridges being taken out of the route; part of the high costing of the section is due to bridging old level crossings. I'm not sure how many are being taken out; I think most of them are for the chop.

corktina

Chris_533976 wrote: »

Only problem with the N/M18 will be the fact that you'll still get bogged down in traffic in Galway and Limerick. Thats where the rail could be useful, as you'd miss that.

Though I trust that Irish Rail, in their infinite excellence, will royally mess up somehow and have a service that noone wants.

if you take the train to those places you'll still be bogged down in traffic as the train will not go to your door whereas a car will, even if it gets held up a bit in traffic. This argument is more suited to a coach vs rail discussion

murphaph

Hamndegger wrote: »

Yes, the rail is capable but the route may not be so in places. The section from Limerick to Ennis has a speed limit of 40MPH so speeds are low on it; I understand some trackwork is due on it in the new year as well as signalling improvements.

So Victor's figure of 50mph is actually quite likely as a max speed for the entire line?

Ham'nd'egger

murphaph wrote: »

So Victor's figure of 50mph is actually quite likely as a max speed for the entire line?

Not so; the max speed on the line will be 70MPH. It will be lower as required so it will be 50MPH in places.

Navan Junction

Hamndegger wrote: »

The section from Limerick to Ennis has a speed limit of 40MPH so speeds are low on it; I understand some trackwork is due on it in the new year as well as signalling improvements.

Will that increase the speed limit do you think?

murphaph

Hamndegger wrote: »

Not so; the max speed on the line will be 70MPH. It will be lower as required so it will be 50MPH in places.

What do you think the average speed of a train will be, to the nearest 10?

70, 60, 50, 40, 30 or 20mph?

I believe if Ennis-Limerick has a max speed of 40mph then including stops the average speed must be considerably lower and let's have a look at the timetable........It currently takes 40 minutes to travel Ennis->Limerick. How many miles is that and what is the average speed on that stretch (no intermediate stops, right?)?

Ham'nd'egger

Navan Junction wrote: »

Will that increase the speed limit do you think?

It should do. The trip is 24 1/2 miles from Limerick and is taking 40 minutes on the book, though in truth they can get in far quicker than this. Remember that this is a shuttle service so it will be tighter timed if it was going further.

murphaph

Hamndegger wrote: »

It should do. The trip is 24 1/2 miles from Limerick and is taking 40 minutes on the book, though in truth they can get in far quicker than this. Remember that this is a shuttle service so it will be tighter timed if it was going further.

That's an average speed of just 32mph with no intermediate stops! When you say they "can do it much faster" how short can the journey time go? Do they ever achieve it in say, 30mins?

Ham'nd'egger

murphaph wrote: »

What do you think the average speed of a train will be, to the nearest 10?

70, 60, 50, 40, 30 or 20mph?

I believe if Ennis-Limerick has a max speed of 40mph then including stops the average speed must be considerably lower and let's have a look at the timetable........It currently takes 40 minutes to travel Ennis->Limerick. How many miles is that and what is the average speed on that stretch (no intermediate stops, right?)?

I'd reckon an average speed at 40MPH. The Mileposts of note are...

[*]1 Ennis Junction
[*]13 Sixmilebirdge
[*]24 1/2 Ennis
[*]41 3/4 Gort
[*]48 3/4 Ardrahan
[*]55 Craughwell
[*]60 1/2 Athenry
[/LIST]

The time to Ennis will probably fall in a direct service as padding will not be an issue. Allow 25 minutes to Gort and 35 to Athenry and chop off 5 to Ennis as is, you are looking at 1 hour and 35 minutes to travel 61 miles. Athenry to Galway is 13 miles so 5 minutes for a driver to change cab ends and 20 minutes to cover this section, that's 2 hours Limerick to Galway. Bear in mind that this is my opinion of the trip so don't take it as fact;)

murphaph

With an average speed of 40mph a coach will be easily able to compete and beat the train I'm afraid. The M18 will fairly closely follow the existing N18 whereas the railway detours off towards athenry (away from Galway) to access the mainline.

If Limerick and Galway ever get into QBCs the bus will have even more of an advantage, especially approaching Limerick as it's a straight run in whereas the train has a more circuitous route.

I'm sitting here looking at the straight as a die alignment of the Clonsilla-Dunboyne stretch and wondering what on earth is wrong with this country.

Chris_533976

Galway has an effective QBC that bypasses the bulk of the traffic jams. Limerick end is another matter entirely.

Coach will not use the new N/M18 as it will still service the towns, however those towns will no longer be bottlenecks once the DC is finished.

Coach will be quicker, theres no other way to put it.

BUT

Citylink coach will be quicker, as it will go straight from Limerick to Galway (servicing towns). Bus Eireann go to Shannon, which can add up to 45mins to the journey.

Navan Junction

murphaph wrote: »

I'm sitting here looking at the straight as a die alignment of the Clonsilla-Dunboyne stretch and wondering what on earth is wrong with this country.

Did you see the map on www.meathontrack.com?

Ham'nd'egger

murphaph wrote: »

That's an average speed of just 32mph with no intermediate stops! When you say they "can do it much faster" how short can the journey time go? Do they ever achieve it in say, 30mins?

According to issue 162 of IRRS Journal, the Limerick Ennis section was 36 minutes in 1966 and 42 minutes in 1902. The 1966 time would have been a diesel trip with one intermediate station open. On the branch, the line is cleared for 40MPH and just 15 and 25MPH for the first 4 miles around Limerick (10 minutes); the previous times do show that the line isn't a fast one; I'd expect a good 5+ could be shaved off.

corktina

2 hours? i could do it in one by road withoput bresking the limits.....citylink will compete head on with it and win.....remember the bus firms can easily put on an express service AND a stopping service...something the railway just cannit do as a single line will have limited capacity...

murphaph

Navan Junction wrote: »

Did you see the map on www.meathontrack.com?

Makes one cry.

Zoney

murphaph wrote: »

With an average speed of 40mph a coach will be easily able to compete and beat the train I'm afraid. The M18 will fairly closely follow the existing N18 whereas the railway detours off towards athenry (away from Galway) to access the mainline.

Eh... no it doesn't. The new N18/M18 also diverts off towards Athenry direction to meet the new N6/M6 and N17/M17 not that far west of Athenry.

murphaph

Zoney wrote: »

Eh... no it doesn't. The new N18/M18 also diverts off towards Athenry direction to meet the new N6/M6 and N17/M17 not that far west of Athenry.

Fair point however the bus can always "cut the corner" and use the N18 into Oranmore if it's quicker.

I had no real opinion on this bit of WRC. It was pretty inoffensive to me. Then I saw the pictures above. It is without doubt, the bendiest candidate for reopening. Midleton is straight. Navan is straighter. They opted to open this first and it stinks. Limerick and Galway still have no commuter rail. Limerick would be an ideal candidate but it's not a vote winner.

corktina

probably would have been of more use if it was of LUAS type and ran straight down the Ennis Rd into the city centre.....

randylonghorn

murphaph wrote: »

I think it just shows where government's priorities lie that Dublin&Cork rail projects are all delayed while the Ennis-Athenry project looks to be ahead of schedule.

No disrespect, murphaph, but do you honestly think the West of Ireland has had any kind of priority for funding for rail / public transport up to now? I am amazed that this project has got some kind of priority eventually, and actually seems to be going ahead reasonably quickly ... but it's certainly the first project for a long time which has received any kind of priority.

Tbh, I would argue that we should all spend less time arguing about which project should be first / whose local need are greater, and invest more time and energy in arguing for significant investment in a practical, sensible and joined-up public transport system for this country as a whole. While the politicians can keep those who support public transport arguing with one another, they can do the usual Irish thing and spend years "listening", nodding wisely and grinning behind their hand ... often until they retire on the big pensions, and pass the buck to someone else.

murphaph wrote: »

It saddens me that meaningful and relevant commuter services for both cities could have been funded instead of this token gesture to 'Inter city' travel.

I wouldn't totally disagree with you there ... being eternally optimistic, despite all evidence as to why I shouldn't be :rolleyes: , there is a part of me which hopes that re-opening this line might also encourage consideration of a more frequent / local commuter service.

corktina wrote: »

probably would have been of more use if it was of LUAS type and ran straight down the Ennis Rd into the city centre.....

Again, I can see your point ...

Zoney

corktina wrote: »

probably would have been of more use if it was of LUAS type and ran straight down the Ennis Rd into the city centre.....

Hah! They still haven't managed to even get a bus lane down the Ennis Road due to resident objections! It seems residents prefer the non-moving traffic queues that they can join in their own private cars that are parked on-street rather than having to be parked in driveways or go down a laneway to be parked in garages at the rear of the properties.

Victor

Navan Junction wrote: »

Another one

Interesting that the track isn't straight on a straight.

Bogger77

Victor wrote: »

Interesting that the track isn't straight on a straight.

That looks to be old, almost rotten sleepers.

Tadhg17

murphaph wrote: »

That's an average speed of just 32mph with no intermediate stops! When you say they "can do it much faster" how short can the journey time go? Do they ever achieve it in say, 30mins?

I have regularly got the Ennis-Limerick train and made it into Limerick in 31/32 mins. When the train gets in closer to the 40min mark, it is because it crawls through Limerick(and sometimes Cratloe). A good few times aswell, the train has made it into Limerick in good time but the train would wait for 3-4 minutes on the approach to the station before going into one of the platforms. That has happened quiet often.

Most of the railway line from Ennis to after Sixmilebridge is fairly straight with no level crossings. The Express Train from Hueston-Ennis on a Friday evening does Limerick-Ennis in 30 minutes.

murphaph

Tadhg17 wrote: »

Most of the railway line from Ennis to after Sixmilebridge is fairly straight with no level crossings. The Express Train from Hueston-Ennis on a Friday evening does Limerick-Ennis in 30 minutes.

Hang on. I'm not doubting your figure of 30 mins but if that's accurate then the train driver has been breaking the speed limit.

40mph is the limit from Limerick to Ennis. 30mins travelling at 40mph only gets you 20 miles out but that's 4 1/2 miles short! To reach Ennis in 30mins means travelling at an average speed of 49 mph. An average speed of 49mph implies that speeds in excess (perhaps over 50 mph) of this must have been reached because the train must move off from 0mph and return to 0mph again. That's a bit naughty!

murphaph

Victor wrote: »

Interesting that the track isn't straight on a straight.

I don't think that's the finished article in fairness to the engineers! Track often looks like that when they're laying new stuff.

Victor

murphaph wrote: »

I don't think that's the finished article in fairness to the engineers! Track often looks like that when they're laying new stuff.

It often seems to look like that when they are finished aswell.

Ham'nd'egger

murphaph wrote: »

Hang on. I'm not doubting your figure of 30 mins but if that's accurate then the train driver has been breaking the speed limit.

40mph is the limit from Limerick to Ennis. 30mins travelling at 40mph only gets you 20 miles out but that's 4 1/2 miles short! To reach Ennis in 30mins means travelling at an average speed of 49 mph. An average speed of 49mph implies that speeds in excess (perhaps over 50 mph) of this must have been reached because the train must move off from 0mph and return to 0mph again. That's a bit naughty!

Murphaph, the highest speed limit on the line is actually 50MPH so these timings are entirely possible. Apologies for the typo.

murphaph

Ah, thanks for clearing that up. I think realistically any intercity line should have a minimum speed of more like 100mph to be anything more than a joke. Even 100mph is slooooow by European standards.

Commuter services in and around the two cities should have been prioritised over this.