Mary Harney - has her time come ?

Hagar

I saw Mary Harney literally squirming on the news, you could hear the fear in her voice. The thought of losing the big salary, the free lunches, the Ministerial car, the free lunches, the big pension, the free lunches, the expenses & perks, the free lunches etc.

Has her time come?


Mods - if this were in Politics the split would be along Party lines as always, just as the vote will be tonight. It would be interesting to see what the punters think.

watna

I think she should resign, but she won't. I also think it's ridiculous that Fianna Fail TDs that vote against her get kicked out of the party. How is that democratic? If that's the way voting in the Dail works then they'll never get rid of inept ministers. The minister is always going to be from tha prty with the majority, so you can never get rid of them id they do a bad job, unless Bertie decides that that's the way it is.

hopalong85

Her time has come, but whoever replaces her probably would be just as bad tbh.

prendy

out of interest who do ye think would do the job?

padi89

hopalong85 wrote: »

Her time has come, but whoever replaces her probably would be just as bad tbh.

x2

Hail 2 Da Chimp

Yup her time has come, it was good to see her squirm on the news. She looked close to tears. As you said Hagar, it must have been the thoughts of losing all those free lunches...

KTRIC

prendy wrote: »

out of interest who do ye think would do the job?

Anyone that can eat 8 meals a day

starn

I hope so, but I doubt it. Wonder what way the greens will vote. As far as I can see they just keep rollong over for Bertie

musiknonstop

Ireland soccer managers have been gotten rid of for less.

Here, peoples lives are at stake, but still it's not a resigning matter.

Tom65

hopalong85 wrote: »

Her time has come, but whoever replaces her probably would be just as bad tbh.

What people seem to forget when talking about this is that any replacement doesn't have to be a TD. Government ministers can be appointed from outside the Daíl. So, theoretically, some health administration genius (these people exist, right?) could be brought in to sort it out.

But that won't happen. Because this is Ireland.

prendy

Anyone that can eat 8 meals a day

lol ya its a prerequisite!

I cant see anyone wanting to take it on tho as its such a hard job.

Laslo

To be honest I think it makes ironic sense to have a morbidly obese Minister for Health. LONG LIVE HARNEY HAM!

cornbb

I don't think she's the worst but I think its time for her to move on. I think the PDs should never have gotten a cabinet seat in the first place, having only 2 TDs in the Dail. But I also think that the motion of no confidence will be eaten (uh, I mean, beaten) in the Dail today. Stupid feckin government.

Binomate

Why can't we vote all four?

cornbb

Binomate wrote: »

Why can't we vote all four?

Yeah, why don't the vBulletin polls use a proportional representation system with a single transferable vote? Cause boards.ie is a feckin' dictatorship, thats why! Yaaaaaargh! I'm off to Feedback, who's with me?

ROCKMAN

yes
yes
yes
yes
yes
yes
yes

Schlemm

She's not going to go cuz all the Fianna failers in the dail will lose their seat if they vote against her:eek:. Ffs!!! Democracy my hole.http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/breaking/2007/1128/breaking7.htm

garthv

Overweight Minister for Health?
She was doomed from the start, lube her up and get her out.

the_syco

If she goes, the same sh|te will keep on happening.

I don't follow the reasoning that if she goes, everything is hunky dory?

The system will most likely stay the same. A few (non-management) people will most likely get sacked, and the same crap will continue to happen.

Sure, the current crisis will get fixed, but it's being fixed, so that won't be much of a change...

Terry

Hagar wrote: »

I saw Mary Harney literally squirming on the news, you could hear the fear in her voice. The thought of losing the big salary, the free lunches, the Ministerial car, the free lunches, the big pension, the free lunches, the expenses & perks, the free lunches etc.

Not to mention all the people encased in carbonite.

Binomate wrote: »

Why can't we vote all four?

cornbb wrote: »

Yeah, why don't the vBulletin polls use a proportional representation system with a single transferable vote? Cause boards.ie is a feckin' dictatorship, thats why! Yaaaaaargh! I'm off to Feedback, who's with me?

If Hagar wishes, I'll change the poll to multiple choice.

themadchef

the_syco wrote: »

If she goes, the same sh|te will keep on happening.

I don't follow the reasoning that if she goes, everything is hunky dory?

The system will most likely stay the same. A few (non-management) people will most likely get sacked, and the same crap will continue to happen.

Sure, the current crisis will get fixed, but it's being fixed, so that won't be much of a change...

+1 .........who in gods name would even want the health portfolio???

Hagar

Yeah, sure why not, I just didn't think of it at the time.

It does look like people think she should go but are pessimistic of any improvement even if she does.

kodute

Im still bitter about that blimp's banning of my beloved mushrooms so roll her out! :mad:

On a serious note, how can we affect the outcome of this vote? Should we all simultaneously ring our local TDs office and demand they vote her out?

kevmy

The shocking thing is she is one of the more competent ministers. I mean we got Mícheal "do ya think I'm sexy" Martin (done it already waster), Martin "I only kept my job cos Dick Roche was worse" Cullen (frightening to even consider), Mary "nod and smile" Coughlan, Mary "nod twice and bigger smile" Hanafin, Biffo " I had it before and couldn't wait to get out" Cowen.

An array of steady as she goes, conservative, cover their asses ministers.

The only one within the present cabinet you should even get a crack at it is Seamus Brennan. He took on the unions and old management at Aer Lingus and Aer Rianta and won, he also got road building brought in on time and on budget. Of course his reward for doing the right thing but annoying some of the union guys was to get a demotion from Bertie.

kevmy

kodute wrote: »

On a serious note, how can we affect the outcome of this vote?

There's nothing we can do now. We had our chance 6 months ago and let the jokers continue. But don't blame me Marge I voted for Kudos

Earthhorse

I think that anytime anything goes wrong in a particluar area of government the relevant minister should immediately resign. That'll solve everything.

Amazotheamazing

Earthhorse wrote: »

I think that anytime anything goes wrong in a particluar area of government the relevant minister should immediately resign. That'll solve everything.

I agree, I dread a world where people have to take responsibility for their actions, or in this case, their inaction, and the inaction of those they are responsible for.

After all, it's only women dying of cancer, it's not like it's a serious issue or anything.

simplybikes

there is no question but that she should go as she is presiding over a shambles. However there is no culture in this country of ministers taking responsibilty for anything other than cashing the monthly cheque. Cullen, Dempsey, Roche etc have all dodged the bullet at some stage or other and she will do the same tonight because the back benchers havn't got the balls to stand up and do the right thing.

Only a government like ours would have a morbidly obese person standing as a minister for health

FlutterinBantam

kevmy wrote: »

The shocking thing is she is one of the more competent ministers. I mean we got Mícheal "do ya think I'm sexy" Martin (done it already waster), Martin "I only kept my job cos Dick Roche was worse" Cullen (frightening to even consider), Mary "nod and smile" Coughlan, Mary "nod twice and bigger smile" Hanafin, Biffo " I had it before and couldn't wait to get out" Cowen.

An array of steady as she goes, conservative, cover their asses ministers.

The only one within the present cabinet you should even get a crack at it is Seamus Brennan. He took on the unions and old management at Aer Lingus and Aer Rianta and won, he also got road building brought in on time and on budget. Of course his reward for doing the right thing but annoying some of the union guys was to get a demotion from Bertie.

Well done there kevmy... someone is thinking out there.

reason the HSE is in such a pickle is that the workers,let me say it loud and clear,is that the workers won't change.
All well and fine saying that the nurses do a great job and look after you well,of course they do,but will they change their work practices/rosters/perks to facilitate the patient?? Noooo way.

Will the consultants change to facilitate the patient even though they are already the highest paid in Europe?..Noooo

Will the cleaners/porters/catering people work towards providing a more flexible service?....Nooo

So before we all get up and drop shíte on MH lets look at the problem in the round,shall we???

Nice one.

John Mason

Well said Bant and Kevmy. Change will only happen, if all parties are flexible and we knows how government departments detest change.

Earthhorse

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

I agree, I dread a world where people have to take responsibility for their actions, or in this case, their inaction, and the inaction of those they are responsible for.

After all, it's only women dying of cancer, it's not like it's a serious issue or anything.

Yeah, you're dead right, I just missed the thread and media coverage about all the other people involved resigning. You couldn't post a link to it for me could you?

Kazu

Im still bitter about that blimp's banning of my beloved mushrooms so roll her out!

lol brillant :D

humbert

I too think that MH isn't the problem. I think she may be one of the few ministers in the current government who isn't simply trying to keep her head down and not rock the boat and might actually be trying to do something constructive.

Amazotheamazing

Earthhorse wrote: »

Yeah, you're dead right, I just missed the thread and media coverage about all the other people involved resigning. You couldn't post a link to it for me could you?

What a cop out, Harney supposedly runs the health services in Ireland, but everytime there's a **** up she shrugs her shoulders and says she wasn't told about it. maybe they all should resign, but Harney going would be a god first step.

stakey

If the government were like a company/business she would be held account for her departments ineptitude and made stand down. When it comes to these most basic of services heads have to roll.

Of course we're cursed with bury your heads in the sand political arrogance from the top down.

I voted 'yes' for the reason that I think _ANYONE_ in the health service from top management down should go over this debacle that we refer to as a service. Let's at least start with an obese arrogant politician who's party has sweet **** all mandate to be in charge of this portfolio in the first place.

And once we're finished with her, get someone in willing to do the job and make heads roll. But, here's the crux 'heads in the sand political arrogance' wins out all the time...

gotta love democracy!

Kazu

i bet she got her own tities checked :D

Earthhorse

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

What a cop out, Harney supposedly runs the health services in Ireland, but everytime there's a **** up she shrugs her shoulders and says she wasn't told about it. maybe they all should resign, but Harney going would be a god first step.

Not a cop out. If you want to talk about personal responsibility then you have to make everyone personally responsible not just those in the public eye.

stakey

If you want to talk about personal responsibility then you have to make everyone personally responsible not just those in the public eye.

Exactly, start with Harney and start the heads rolling from there!

Earthhorse

Start with Harney and it's a big enough prize that no further heads will roll.

Kazu

It quiet clear by looking at her she knows nothing about Health

she might as well scrap her plans for her site

http://www.maryharney.ie/ she wouldnt have to renew the domain in january lol lol

domain: maryharney.ie
descr: An Tanaiste, Mary Harney TD
descr: Natural Person
descr: POLITICIAN'S NAME
admin-c: MHT1-IEDR
tech-c: AAP128-IEDR
renewal: 28-January-2008

Dar

Lol and people wonder why the majority of ministers who get the health portfolio just try and keep their head down. "Problem with health, sure just sack the minister", ad infinitum.

The system is broken. No amount of scapegoating is going to fix it. I for one would rather someone in the post who actually volunteered for it and wants to bring reform, rather than another ff muppet who'll be too busy worrying about his own political career to institute any meaningful change.

ateam

Mary Harney is a competent tough politician and probably the most influential female politician in Irish history. Some people forget that. She does not deserve to be fired or to resign. Plus the poll is completely biased, the No option mentions something about trollies, so I would suggest changing it to just No and see what people say.

Endasaurus

Ok guys, Mary Harney is fat, we get that already :rolleyes:


I don't like the PDs that much but I dont think she should resign.

stakey

She was competent in the Trade and Enterprise portfolio (perhaps) but she is by no means competent in the Health portfolio and it's sheer arrogance that 1) she thought she could make a difference and 2) that she won't take personal responsibility for the failures of the HSE and step aside.

In the case of point one above, Harney seems more intent on driving home PDesque policies in the Health Care System than building a health care system that people in this country can use without major issues.

FlutterinBantam

stakey wrote: »

If the government were like a company/business she would be held account for her departments ineptitude and made stand down. When it comes to these most basic of services heads have to roll.

Of course we're cursed with bury your heads in the sand political arrogance from the top down.

I voted 'yes' for the reason that I think _ANYONE_ in the health service from top management down should go over this debacle that we refer to as a service. Let's at least start with an obese arrogant politician who's party has sweet **** all mandate to be in charge of this portfolio in the first place.

And once we're finished with her, get someone in willing to do the job and Hake heads roll. But, here's the crux 'heads in the sand political arrogance' wins out all the time...

gotta love democracy!

And therin lies the crux... the Government isn't a company and a business.

If it were the ,non-performers,at whatever level, would be gotten rid of,payment and salaries would be comensurate with the going rate.
Employees would realise that if they point blankly refused to budge on work practice changes they could go under.

Listen to this... the only way anything meaningfull will happen in the health service is if the Govt. adopt an all party stance and cut out the politicking.

Harney said this in her speech yesterday.
Have Labour and FG the savvy and the balls to go along with that.

No fcukin way Jose.... and the crisis rumbles on.

lafors

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Well done there kevmy... someone is thinking out there.

reason the HSE is in such a pickle is that the workers,let me say it loud and clear,is that the workers won't change.
All well and fine saying that the nurses do a great job and look after you well,of course they do,but will they change their work practices/rosters/perks to facilitate the patient?? Noooo way.

Will the consultants change to facilitate the patient even though they are already the highest paid in Europe?..Noooo

Will the cleaners/porters/catering people work towards providing a more flexible service?....Nooo

So before we all get up and drop shíte on MH lets look at the problem in the round,shall we???

Nice one.

Well said!!!!!

I can't believe people are so blinkered.
MH made a mistake taking on the consultants and the nurses.
Because of this the HSE have been withholding information from her to make her look like a fool.

The only person who should be removed is Brendan Drumm.
I think there should be an option in the poll with his name on it.

If tey get rid of her it will be the biggest mistake this country has made since trusting CJ

stakey

Listen to this... the only way anything meaningfull will happen in the health service is if the Govt. adopt an all party stance and cut out the politicking.

Agreed! But do you honestly believe that Harney and Fianna Fail would like an 'all party stance' to resolve the issues with the health service?

Not a chance, that speech was politricks at it's best (and worst)...

colliegG

The whole point of her resigning is that she would have an opportunity to show accountability for what occured while she was in charge. Although that may have only been nominally, she is supposed to be the fcukin minister. Nobody thinks her resignation is gonna sort out the mess she's leaving behind her but that's not the point. Perhaps it'll prove some small comfort to the families of anyone who's ever had a relative die from one of the many and varied ways our health service will kill you today that someone was big enough to take responsibility. Of course that won't happen and its sickening that not one minister in this nation will ever be forced to stand up and take responsibility. Of course Bertie backs her, where would that fcuker be if politicians began to take the blame for their actions.

Dar

colliegG wrote: »

The whole point of her resigning is that she would have an opportunity to show accountability for what occured while she was in charge.

What, like ireland moving from 2nd last to middle of the pack in the european health consumer index?
How about reduced waiting times across the majority of departments?
How about the formation of the HSE, an essential step in pushing forward the centers of excellence plan which will prevent this sort of scare happening again?

Make no mistake, this vote has very little to do with improving the health service. It's simply a great opportunity for the opposition to attack the government. I can guarantee you if any one of the was offered the health portfolio they wouldn't take it.

Hagar

ateam wrote: »

Plus the poll is completely biased, the No option mentions something about trollies, so I would suggest changing it to just No and see what people say.

If Minister Harney remains in the job, as she will, people will continue to lie on trollies in open corridors, like something from the Third World. Is it any wonder MRSA is rampant in our hospitals.

I think the poll results are fairly clear. Feel free to put up your own "biased" poll and see if you get a different result.