DIY HKC Alarm

bibibobo

Hi, Am looking to save some money by wiring my house with a HKC alarm. I have good electrical skills but no experience with alarms. I am very comfortable with wiring to mains, laying cables etc . My main query is how easy is it to do and what are the pitfalls for the first timer? Also, where would i purchase the required parts, what types of sensors are there etc? I am based in north Dublin.
thanks. B

northdublin

i can supply you with all you need or at least price the gear for you.if you want you can pm me and ill fill you in.
is the house prewired or will you be wiring it yourself?
if its pre-wired then ied suggest testing the cables first to prevent exhaustive fault finding later, continuity tester or a multimeter will do the job.
if your wiring it yourself, depending on how many windows you have ied suggest using at least a 6 core alarm cable and start at the furthest window and loop 2-3 windows at a time. usually ied break them up as follows, front door(EE).......front windows downstairs........back windows downstairs/back door.........front up and rear up..........a hkc 8/12 has 8 zones so this should leave room for 2 pirs and a p/a button. do not bring the cables back to the hotpress...!!!
also allow a 6 core cable for the exterior bell and echo. if you want it monitored or want it to text yer phone on activation ied run a cable to the incomming phoneline. there are a good few installers on this forum so most off your querys should be answered so dont hesitate to ask

Jnealon

I only know of a couple of places on the north side that you could try, Greenhills Rainbow in Donabate and NEW in Finglas. As you are using HKC gear you should have a look at their ID sensors.

ennisjim

Wired up my alarm recently in new build. Installed wiring myself before plasterer did his thing - it's pretty easy to do (just remember to label wires as they are installed - unlike me - had to use a multimeter to track them all down :-(
Used all HKC gear (no affiliation) and no problems (so far :-). Worked first time. Bought from Greenhills Rainbow in Limerick. Had all the parts I needed. Currently using magnetic contacts at windows and doors, several PIRs. Plan to add shock sensors later.

By the way Jnealon - what are 'ID sensors' ?

Borzoi

bibibobo wrote: »

Hi, Am looking to save some money by wiring my house with a HKC alarm. I have good electrical skills but no experience with alarms. I am very comfortable with wiring to mains, laying cables etc . My main query is how easy is it to do and what are the pitfalls for the first timer? B

N2 Electrical will sort out the components if you're near them pop in.
4 core cable - sensors, panic alarms
6 core cable - SABB,
8 Zone panel
Keypad
SABB (Outside bell box)
Internal Siren
Battery
Sensors (vibration per window frame, contact per door, per openable window too if required)
PIR if required


Wiring is easy, if a little tedious. The only hard part is the knack of reverse thinking - the alarm goes off when a circuit breaks.

Set up on the panel is pretty straight forward - but the manual is basic and does assume some proir knowledge of terminology - I had to ring the brother once or twice to explain terms:rolleyes:

Having done it once, I paid somebody to do the wiring the second time, because what the sparks did in a day took me a week!

northdublin

up untill recently i installed alarms and i used hkc id sensors most of the time. id sensors are wired on a single cable back to the panel from the first window. they are differant to normal sensors cause they can be identified singularly. on a normal wired zone with normal sensors you could have 2/3/4 or more sensors on 1 zone........and if the alarm goes off you wont know which sensor it was that set off the alarm only that it was one in a group.
with id sensors there individual and you can have 10 on 1 zone and the panel will tell you the exact one.on a hkc 8/12 you can alocate 4 zones to be id zones and that means you can have 10 per zone so using ids you could make those 4 zones carry 40 id sensors and it would identify them on an activation.
there a bit dearer too....a normal sensor is about 12 euro plus vat and an id sensor is about 16 plus vat.

bibibobo

northdublin wrote: »

....... do not bring the cables back to the hotpress...!!!

hi, what is wrong with running cables up through the hotpress. This is what i intend to do. The press is not hot at all due to the insulated water tank.
My hotpress has a huge bunch of cables routed up from gnd floor to the attic, mainly satellite cables, telephone cables, cat5e and alarm cables all bunched together. I will also be running mains cable up to the attic so the 2.5mm^2 cable will run alongside the above mentioned cables. Is it possible to have interference between any of these cables and alarm cables?? Also, is it possible to have interference between satellite cables and mains cables?
Thanks.
B

KoolKid

He said back to the hot press... Control panels can not be located in the hot press.
Running cables trough the hot press is fine!

bibibobo

Borzoi wrote: »

4 core cable - sensors, panic alarms
6 core cable - SABB,
8 Zone panel
Keypad
SABB (Outside bell box)
Internal Siren
Battery
Sensors (vibration per window frame, contact per door, per openable window too if required)
PIR if required

Thanks for the list. Very useful.
Do the ID sensors from HKC require 4 core or 6 core cable?
Also what are the different types of sensors? Have I got this correct?:
a) Inertia sensors detect shock or vibration useful for windows.
b) Contact sensors use magnets to hold a switch closed in normal condition used for windows and doors.
c) PIR sensors - infrared movement signature.

Do HKC do combined inertia and contact sensors or do i need to add both to a window?
Is there any point in putting inertia sensors in addition to contact sensors on rear sliding doors?
Are the ID sensors simply upgraded versions of the above to identify themselves on the circuit? If I have a window with 4 openable windows and i want just the entire window to be identified with an ID sensor then do i have to wire one inertia sensor and 4 contact ID sensors to this window?

thanks
B

bibibobo

koolkid wrote: »

He said back to the hot press... Control panels can not be located in the hot press.
Running cables trough the hot press is fine!

oh! gotcha.

.... but what about electromagnetic interference between mains cables and alarms cables (and sat cables)?

Redshift

Do the ID sensors from HKC require 4 core or 6 core cable?

You can do it with four core but i'd use 6 core just in case

Also what are the different types of sensors? Have I got this correct?:
a) Inertia sensors detect shock or vibration useful for windows.
b) Contact sensors use magnets to hold a switch closed in normal condition used for windows and doors.
c) PIR sensors - infrared movement signature.

Correct

Do HKC do combined inertia and contact sensors or do i need to add both to a window?

They do Inertias/IDs with or Without reeds, they also have terminals for an external contact.

Is there any point in putting inertia sensors in addition to contact sensors on rear sliding doors?

Yes External Doors should have both

Are the ID sensors simply upgraded versions of the above to identify themselves on the circuit?

They connect to the Panel on a data line, they require a pair of wires for power and a single wire for data

If I have a window with 4 openable windows and i want just the entire window to be identified with an ID sensor then do i have to wire one inertia sensor and 4 contact ID sensors to this window?

Depending on how big the window is and what it's made of you may require more than one inertia sensor.
Obviously I haven't seen the window but as a start I'd suggest x2 ID Inertia sensors with built in reeds and wire in an additional contact to each ID inertia sensor.
This should cover a largeish window and four openings.

I haven't done residential security in some time some, if the equipment specs or capabilities have changed someone will correct me.
Good luck and fair play to you for doing it yourself, watch what your doing and take your time and you'll be fine.

bibibobo

Thanks alot for the support.

Does anybody have any idea what it might cost to get required parts for 3 bed semi ... Ballpark?

bibibobo

Redshift wrote: »

You can do it with four core but i'd use 6 core just in case ...

Why do you say 'just in case' ? I think 3 wires are only required for the id sensors. though i could be wrong. Just wondering what the point of wiring 6 core for HKC sensors is? I thought its only for control panel connections etc.


If i have one window with two openings and install an ID inertia sensor to the frame with a reed for one opening can i just connect another non-ID sensor contact only sensor looped off the inertia sensor? I presume if this is activated then it will only locate itself as zone 5 for example and not ID point 51.

northdublin

if you damage a cable when installing them....ie put a staple trough it.......you would have spares.
if not using id sensors and using normal sensors you can split up the zones on the relivent coulours ie......red black for one window.......green white for another and common the tampers on blue and yellow. so you end up with two separate zones and a tamper zone on one cable.
both the id and standard sensors have terminals to wire in a second contact or sensor. if its a small window with two openings theres no need to fit a second inertia instead just fit a surface contact. if you series them in you could have multiple contacs of one inertia. ut they would all show up as the one zone on activation. in certain small installs we used to run a six core and red black would be the inertia and green white would be the contacts and blue yellow would be the tamper......this meant that the contacts were on a differant circut to the inertias and at night they could be bypassed in the summer with the windows left open.

tapest

" also allow a 6 core cable for the exterior bell and echo."

NorthDublin
Hope you don't mind me contacting you.

The above is a recent quote. Can you clear up one point for me? The echo/echo flash has contacts for tamper(2), and 3 contacts for +/- sounder / flash. Can sounder & strobe be fed by the same pair of wires. ie 4 wires only needed. I've run a six core just in case. What is your wiring recommendation. Tnx in advance
Regards
tony
Bibibobo
Sorry...not trying to take over thread

Jnealon

tapest wrote: »

" also allow a 6 core cable for the exterior bell and echo."

NorthDublin
Hope you don't mind me contacting you.

The above is a recent quote. Can you clear up one point for me? The echo/echo flash has contacts for tamper(2), and 3 contacts for +/- sounder / flash. Can sounder & strobe be fed by the same pair of wires. ie 4 wires only needed. I've run a six core just in case. What is your wiring recommendation. Tnx in advance
Regards
tony
Bibibobo
Sorry...not trying to take over thread

Conect the ext bell + and - to the sounder + and -. Then connect the int bell - to the flash. Loop the tamper in to one of the zone tampers. There are a few other ways to do it but this will work fine

tapest

JNealon
"Conect the ext bell + and - to the sounder + and -. Then connect the int bell - to the flash. Loop the tamper in to one of the zone tampers. There are a few other ways to do it but this will work fine"

So basically wire the internal echoflash the same as the outside SAB. ie double up bell and strobe outputs. Tnx for that info. I would have only used the strobe output + & - in the panel to drive the echo, using a "loop" between the two neg in the echo, thus internal siren and strobe off the single pair. Would I have caused damage/blown output fuse??
Regards
t

northdublin

you can use the same +/- that is used for the strobe. this would mean that when the sab stops sounding the strobe keeps going, so the internal sounder and the strobe will sound untill the system is disarmed.

tapest

JNealon / NorthDublin

Tnx Guys..Appreciate the help
t

DeputyD

Hi everybody,

Items in Question:
-Bosch Blue Line Gen 2 Motion Sensor
-HKC SW 1070 Alarm Panel

Have all the wiring done (6 core) for the above alarm, panel is connected to mains, keypad wired/connected to panel and External Bell mounted and connected/wired to panel.
I have an electrical background but not much knowledge on Alarms.
What i need in lay mans terms is how to connect the above items without all the mumbo jumbo...not to sound arrogant maybe ignorant

Im using the Aux - + in the panel to power the Montion sensors. Using the Black/Red for power and Yellow/green for other contacts
Im not up on the use of resistors

The Layout of the afformentioned Motion sensor is as follows:

- + NC NC T T

(not sure if the motion sensor is prefitted with resistors for ease of install)



and the layout of the zones in the Alarm Panel is as follows:

for example Zone 1

[ * * * * ]
Alarm Tamper

If theres anyone out there who could put it simply that i can look at at the post and carry out the above task by simply reading a diagram/reply i would be forever grateful.
I rang HKC today and they would under no circumstances put me onto an engineer. Im shgged if im going paying an alarm installer 300-400 euros to do it when i could do it myself with some basic tips and help! If youre not gonna leave a helpful comment dont bother at all, Thanks a mill!

KoolKid

+ > 12 Volt Aux + on the alarm
- > 12 volt Aux - on the panel

NC & C to Alarm input on panel
T & T to zone tamper input on panel.

Massey N

hi
is there any way of getting the internal alarm buzz turned off from outside. ie will cutting the main power do it? as im living with a vacant house internal alarm going off for three days IT would drive you to suicide

ta
M

KoolKid

No there is not.
Also this is someone elses property, you are not allowed to either way.

Massey N

THANKS FOR NOTHING
I should have got married

paddy147

KoolKid wrote: »

No there is not.
Also this is someone elses property, you are not allowed to either way.

If an alarm is going off constantly for 3 days in a vacated house and is causing noise pollution to other neighbours,then can the gardai or county council legally enter/break into the the house and allow an alarm company to deactivate the internal bell/sounder???

Massey N

Thanks Paddy

THE Gardai wash their hands
I Will try the CO Council because after all the people who vacated the house and are making my and my neighbours life hell.shes got two young kids.. are MOST Likely not paying their PROPERTY TAX...

i have contacted my local Sinn Fein TD who has said they'll help me but in the meantime I EXIST IN THIS LIMBO

KoolKid

This issues was brought up fairly recently to give the Guards this power.
I believe they were reluctant to do it. Also who pays the alarm company for the call out.? Who pays to secure the property afterwards?
A very grey area I'd imagine.

Massey N

meanwhile I listen to buzzzzzzzzzzzzzing in my head IN MY OWN PROPERTY WHICH IM PAYING A MORTGAGE ON
for the privilage..and household charge and PROPERTY TAX

please I just want positive responses
THANKS IN ANTICIPATION

Massey N

with regarding to securing the property
it its vacant this long and EVERYBODY ignores the ALARM..
well who gives a **** about Securing their PROPERTY

I f...g dont

KoolKid

Whether you care about it or not is irrelevant. Its that persons property & that person has rights also.You can't just break into his property , disable his alarm & walk away. Neither can the Guards, the Council or anyone else.
I would suggest putting your energy into trying to find a contact for who owns the property. Your Councillor or TD should be able to help along those lines.

Massey N

THANKS I HAVE

Massey N

DID I MENTION BREAKING IN

BUT HEY IF I SAW HIM
ID KICK HIM IN THE BALLS

KoolKid

Abusive post deleted.
Personal abuse will not be tolerated here.
1 week ban for Massey M.
if you wish to continue using this forum after that I suggest you return with a better attitude towards people.

kub

The law is simple on this one, if you enter the property without the owners permission then you are tresspassing.
If you interfere or damage any of the goods or fixtures on or within the house then that is criminal damage.

We are security system speciailists, not law makers.