BCI DTT Deliberations

Sponge Bob

I just heard that the encoding scheme is going to be MPEG4 and not MPEG2 .

byte

I personally hope so. Allows more channels per mux. Though, not much good for many iDTV's sold currently which mostly seem to have only MPEG2.

Sponge Bob

I would be very surprised now if MPEG 4 is not the required standard for the 3 Muxes to be allocated by the BCI.

I am unsure to some extent (at this point) as to what RTE will may do with 'their 'mux'. They may go with MPEG2 just to be awkward but this could cost them 'their' second mux that they 'could' apply for ......if it backfires on them .

Mossy Monk

At least they have done something right. Pity for all those who went out and bought Freeview boxes though.

Round Cable

The SD test 1 channel now has RTÉ ONE in MPEG4, so hopefully it'll be used across the board.

SPDUB

byte wrote: »

Allows more channels per mux.

Though what's the point of that with only rubbish channels .

That's the one reason I wasn't too bothered missing out on the "trial" channels as even on a closed trial the line up was mostly rubbish

Sponge Bob

Still a bit of a ****ed up trial in that all the channels broadcast in the clear are mpeg2 at present along with most of the encrypted ones .

watty

It seems AS FOLK WERE WARNED BY MODS HERE that The Irish DTT will be MPEG4 only and thus all those Freeview boxes and many of the USB sticks will be worthless.

It may be only the RTE MUX that is near 100% coverage and FTA. The other 3 MUX may be able to suit themselves on viewing cards & rollout, though CA interoperability is for non-Premium content. (Who decides what is Premium Content?).

So you need a box with CA slot for a CAM, MPEG4 (HD optional) and MHEG for interactive/EPG. The elegant RF interactive demoed 8 years ago (DVB-RCT) is probably gone forever. True interactive (A return channel) or bundled Internet/Phone on the system is not part of the spec.

Fingleberries

watty wrote:

The other 3 MUX may be able to suit themselves on viewing cards & rollout

Perhaps a silly (i.e. newbie) question, but if they can suit themselves is there a possibility that you'll need a different card for providers depending on which Mux they are, so you'll end up getting up to change card every time you want to switch to one of the other channels provided by another carrier?

Zaphod

watty wrote: »

It seems AS FOLK WERE WARNED BY MODS HERE that The Irish DTT will be MPEG4 only and thus all those Freeview boxes and many of the USB sticks will be worthless.

Most, if not all, of the USB sticks should be fine I'd imagine.

BCI may offer three digital TV licences to one firm

Ciarán Hancock, Business Affairs Correspondent

The Broadcasting Commission of Ireland (BCI) said yesterday that it might award the three digital terrestrial television (DTT) multiplex licences to just one company if this proves to be the most viable way of operating the system.

"The BCI position is to leave open the possibility for applicants to apply for one or more multiplexes, thereby maximising the possibility of a greater number of applications," the BCI said yesterday.

It is not clear who will pitch to operate the multiplexes but industry sources have suggested that UPC, Sky, Eircom and BT Ireland could be among those who submit applications.

The regulator has three multiplex licences to award and plans to advertise for operators next March. It expects to issue the licences by the middle of 2008 with services likely to begin in 2012 when the analogue signal is due to be switched off.

DTT will replace the current analogue signal and offer greater content and interactive services.

Four multiplex licences have been issued by Comreg: one for RTÉ and three for the BCI to allocate.

At a media briefing in Dublin yesterday, the BCI said each multiplex would be able to broadcast up to 12 standard channels or about three high-definition stations. The four terrestrial channels - RTÉ1, RTÉ2, TV3 and TG4 - will be carried on RTÉ's multiplex and will continue to be free to air.

The BCI said it would seek submissions from multiplex operators as to what content they would carry.

Licence applicants are free to suggest whatever content mix they see fit, but the commission said it was likely to choose services that reflected viewing patterns here.

Each household in the Republic will have to buy a set-top box to receive DTT. At present, about 27 per cent of the 1.48 million households do not have any form of pay television, be it Sky, NTL, Chorus or other operators. These homes are expected to be the main target for DTT multiplex operators.

DTT will spice up competition in the digital television market. At present, digital television is provided by Sky, which is carried in 34 per cent of homes, and cable operator UPC, the owner of NTL and Chorus, which is in 39 per cent of homes.

The BCI said the multiplexes it licenses could be operated as free to air, subscription services or a mix of both. Operators will have to pay a fee to the BCI, which has yet to be determined. They will also have to pay a spectrum charge to Comreg.

Multiplex operators will be required to provide 90 per cent population coverage at launch.

Irish Times

watty

Zaphod wrote: »

Most, if not all, of the USB sticks should be fine I'd imagine.

I was thinking of CA slot for CAM. I know in THEORY most should do MPEG4.


Though it's a fairly rubbish way to watch TV. A laptop screen is wrong refresh & resolution. Certainly I've never seen TV on ANY laptop as good as my 99 Euro CRT fed from Satellite or Analogue aerial

mrdtv

watty wrote: »

I was thinking of CA slot for CAM. I know in THEORY most should do MPEG4.


Though it's a fairly rubbish way to watch TV. A laptop screen is wrong refresh & resolution. Certainly I've never seen TV on ANY laptop as good as my 99 Euro CRT fed from Satellite or Analogue aerial

I am just wondering if there will be any takers for these licences. It doesn't look like they will have UK terrestrials, Freesat will have an MPEG4HD lineup + all UK terrestrials from the spring of 2008. So who needs them? The MPEG4 boxes will be more expensive, its a small market, so IMHO its likely to fail to take off. It doesn't have an attractive USP.

maxg

Right, the first step should be to find at least one interested party.
It makes no sense to speculate about 3 empty muxes which send nothing in mpeg4 because nobody is interested to waste money.

watty

Lots of other countries do or will use MPEG4. By 2009 (I'd be surprised if running by then) the MPEG4 DTT box will be standard.

flogen

I hope we don't just have one MUX that's FTA or FTV, I'd much rather see just one Sub MUX and three on a 'Freeview'-type system.

Maybe if Sky got one they could use it for the likes of Sky One, Sky Two, Sky News, Sky Sports News etc. as this would damage UPC more than it would Sky.

If UPC got one I can't imagine them putting together a very attractive FTA or Subscription MUX from the channels they own - so it's hard to guess what they'd do.

Maybe a stupid question but is it possible to have subscription services on the same mux as FTA/FTV services? I'd have guessed it's not possible or at least easy, but may well be wrong.

lawhec

flogen wrote: »

Maybe a stupid question but is it possible to have subscription services on the same mux as FTA/FTV services? I'd have guessed it's not possible or at least easy, but may well be wrong.

Yes, perfectly possible. It's done on Mux A in the UK.

I'd be a little disappointed if it were to be MPEG4 only, would render my current DVB-T STBs inoperable for DTT from the Republic, would prefer something like the French system (FTA MPEG-2, Pay-TV MPEG4).

It will be interesting to see what eventually appears.

SPDUB

watty wrote: »

Lots of other countries do or will use MPEG4. By 2009 (I'd be surprised if running by then) the MPEG4 DTT box will be standard.

Is this the same way people kept saying DAB+ will be standard next year seeing as 2009 is just 13 months away

maxg

watty wrote: »

Lots of other countries do or will use MPEG4. By 2009 (I'd be surprised if running by then) the MPEG4 DTT box will be standard.

Say who?
Every country which switched off analogue and/or introduced DTT this year in europe is using mpeg2 for the state broadcaster channels.
Onliest exception is norway. There are 2 (in words two) mpeg4 boxes on the market in norway and you have to submit your TV licence if you want to buy one.
Mpeg4 is maybe a option for paytv in europe but the first step is to find an provider for the irish DTT.

watty

SPDUB wrote: »

Is this the same way people kept saying DAB+ will be standard next year seeing as 2009 is just 13 months away

DAB is rubbish and poor alternative to FM Radio (power, coverage, quality, cost).

Most countries aren't bothering with DAB at all. Finland abandoned it. DRM broadcasting has more future and is rolling out world wide on LW, MW and SW. It's likely to be more widespread eventually on VHF than DAB.

Even the UK is looking a edging into MPEG4.
Satellite will eventually all be MPEG4 just as MPEG2 replaced D2MAC entirely and Analogue mostly. HD first (MPEG2 HD gone), then PayTV 2nd then FTA.

French TNT uses MPEG2 for FTA and MPEG4 for payTV. They do a CAM that converts the MPEG4 to MPEG2 and takes viewing card for MPEG2 only TV sets and receivers. (It can't ever do HD).

With fewer DTT channels and MMDS/Cable/Satellite competition it's likely that Ireland will be an early adopter of HD terrestrial which has to use MPEG4

Also without MPEG4, DTT has far too few channels to compete against the nearly 900,000 Satellite/Cable/MMDS already out there. (Not all MMDS / Cable is digital, but by end of 2008 it's likely NO analogue MMDS and all cable will be Digital if customer wants more than basic analogue, which is likely to have less channels).

MPEG4 is very compelling. Twice as many channels at almost no extra cost for the broadcast network. Picking MPEG2 when we are almost the last to have an analogue switchover would be like picking 405Line TV for a new TV service in 1967. Picking 405 line was even a bad decision for UK after the WWII, they knew 625 was the way to go and picked 405 for sake of 300 to 3000 pre-war receivers (depending on who you believe). I've no real idea why the French switched from 440line(approx) to 819 line then rather than the 625 standard.

watty

Sky want all their channels on UK DTT to be MPEG4 pay TV.
I'd expect any UPC or Sky run Muxes to be Pay TV only.

If the governement was serious about DTT takeup there would be an Irish Mux FTA and a UK TV Mux part FTA (BBC1, BBC2, ITV, C4 free; BBC3, BBC4 (thus Cbbc/Cbeebies), News24, ITV2..4, Film4, Five on sub).
But I can't see it happening. The two politics channels exist already, but only on web.
FTA will be only:
Dail Channel
Senate Channel
RTE1 &2
RTE news24
TV3
TG4
Maybe Ch6
Maybe one "an other" or "RTE educational"?

SPDUB

watty wrote: »

FTA will be only:
Dail Channel
Senate Channel
RTE1 &2
RTE news24
TV3
TG4
Maybe Ch6
Maybe one "an other" or "RTE educational"?

If they expect people to shell out €100+ for a mpeg4 box on those channels then they are out of their minds .

I wouldn't do it and I bought a USB stick for the current "trials"

maxg

The price for a sagem ITD91HD DTT receiver is around 190 Euro in Norway.

watty

Expect MPEG4 receivers to be €40 to €50 by the time the service rolls out. Maybe even with HD & HDMI at that price.

flogen

watty wrote: »

Sky want all their channels on UK DTT to be MPEG4 pay TV.
I'd expect any UPC or Sky run Muxes to be Pay TV only.

If the governement was serious about DTT takeup there would be an Irish Mux FTA and a UK TV Mux part FTA (BBC1, BBC2, ITV, C4 free; BBC3, BBC4 (thus Cbbc/Cbeebies), News24, ITV2..4, Film4, Five on sub).
But I can't see it happening. The two politics channels exist already, but only on web.
FTA will be only:
Dail Channel
Senate Channel
RTE1 &2
RTE news24
TV3
TG4
Maybe Ch6
Maybe one "an other" or "RTE educational"?

I'd imagine they'd have an Oireachtas channel which would contain both Dáil and Seanad coverage, similar to the BBC Parliament set up.

Besides that I'd imagine TV3 will want space for their own second channel, even if it's just one of those wonderful timeshift services.

I hope that there'll be at least one more MUX available without a subscription - you're right though, if UPC or Sky get ownership of them it'll be slightly less likely...

That said I think Sky treat their UK operation very differently to their Irish one so the comparison with their moves on Freeview may not be comparable.

The reason why I think they'd offer an un-encrypted service with Sky 1, News, Sports News etc. is because it would damage the appeal of UPC's basic cable package, much more than their own basic Digital package.

What BT Ireland have in mind would be interesting to see.

Sponge Bob

flogen wrote: »

Besides that I'd imagine TV3 will want space for their own second channel, even if it's just one of those wonderful timeshift services.

Rte are

1. not obliged to carry tv3 on their one allocated fta mux
2. may request a second mux, also for FTA , its set aside for them.

I hope that there'll be at least one more MUX available without a subscription - you're right though, if UPC or Sky get ownership of them it'll be slightly less likely...

well TV3 may well be on this FTA commercial mux , can't imagine anyone paying for tv3

The reason why I think they'd offer an un-encrypted service with Sky 1, News, Sports News etc. is because it would damage the appeal of UPC's basic cable package, much more than their own basic Digital package.

I would guess that sky would offer the news channel to RTE for their FTA mux or to an FTA commerical mux. They would have sky1 encrypted .

What BT Ireland have in mind would be interesting to see.

Indeed

maxg

watty wrote: »

Expect MPEG4 receivers to be €40 to €50 by the time the service rolls out. Maybe even with HD & HDMI at that price.

Sure, in 10 years.
There is simply not much demand for such boxes in the next 2 or 3 years.

maxg

flogen wrote: »

The reason why I think they'd offer an un-encrypted service with Sky 1, News, Sports News etc. is because it would damage the appeal of UPC's basic cable package, much more than their own basic Digital package.

Why should a commercial firm offer a free meal to Ireland.
There must be a chance to refinance all costs and the chance to make money.
I don't think the irish market is big enough to give room for a couple a new channels via DTT which get paid via commercials.

watty

maxg wrote: »

Sure, in 10 years.
There is simply not much demand for such boxes in the next 2 or 3 years.

I'm sure people would rather believe the broadcasters and all the Asian set box manufacturers. You're out of date on this. The change to MPEG4 is inexorable and even existing rolled out MPEG2 Networks are negotiating how to migrate to MPEG4.

There is a premium on HD & HDMI (needs extra HW), but for a new set box there soon will none that are MPEG2 only. The Chipsets for MPEG4 are now cheap and do MPEG2 also. It might take nearly 5 years for HD to be standard in all setboxes, but SD MPEG4 will be standard long before it.

Have you bought a palette load of UK only DTT receivers?

maxg

watty wrote: »

I'm sure people would rather believe the broadcasters and all the Asian set box manufacturers. You're out of date on this. The change to MPEG4 is inexorable and even existing rolled out MPEG2 Networks are negotiating how to migrate to MPEG4.

There is a premium on HD & HDMI (needs extra HW), but for a new set box there soon will none that are MPEG2 only. The Chipsets for MPEG4 are now cheap and do MPEG2 also. It might take nearly 5 years for HD to be standard in all setboxes, but SD MPEG4 will be standard long before it.

Have you bought a palette load of UK only DTT receivers?

Simply stop your wild guessings. Thats not the right behavior of a moderator in a reliable forum.
If you have a other opinion simply write your facts.
Tell me where the demand for mpeg4 boxes should be come from in the next years?
Maybe Lithuania, which planning to introduce dvb-T2 in mpeg4 in some years.

flogen

maxg wrote: »

Why should a commercial firm offer a free meal to Ireland.
There must be a chance to refinance all costs and the chance to make money.
I don't think the irish market is big enough to give room for a couple a new channels via DTT which get paid via commercials.

I didn't say I think they should, I said I think they might.

There's a balance to be made for the broadcasters, of course, as a subscription wall will always limit viewership and hit advertising revenues. As well as that they have to ask if there's room in the market for another subscription package via DTT (that's offering nothing new) when 2/3s have a Sky or UPC service already and the other 1/3 don't and haven't for a long time.

I wouldn't pay a subscription to have extra DTT channels when I have a digital package on cable/satellite already and as both UPC's and Sky's multi-room offerings are decent enough I don't think many would go with subscription-based DTT for the house's 2nd or 3rd TV either.

The other 1/3 may largely have decided that paying extra for some new channels isn't worth it and the basic 4 (or their FTA satellite) is enough for them.

Sponge Bob

maxg wrote: »

Simply stop your wild guessings. Thats not the right behavior of a moderator in a reliable forum.

Its because his guessing is not wild that he is mod.

Tell me where the demand for mpeg4 boxes should be come from in the next years?
Maybe Lithuania, which planning to introduce dvb-T2 in mpeg4 in some years.

And slovenia and norway who have launched mpeg4 services, then there is france which will mandate the mpeg4 codec in all STBs sold from some time in the second half of 2008 .

And of course, SKY Picnic is awaiting go ahead for their 'proposal' from Ofcom . Never mind what BBC Freesat may do.

Inexorable is a nice word. I agree with Wattys usage thereof.

Have you a large quantity of MPEG2 gear like he asked ???

SPDUB

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Its because his guessing is not wild that he is mod.

Strange it sounds exactly like the DAB+ thread last year

Sponge Bob

and what did watty do wrong that time ???

who is this

maxg wrote: »

Why should a commercial firm offer a free meal to Ireland.
There must be a chance to refinance all costs and the chance to make money.
I don't think the irish market is big enough to give room for a couple a new channels via DTT which get paid via commercials.

You'd be surprised. Don't forget that rights costs also decrease with market size (it's not just the ad-revenue that falls). Not saying Sky would do that, just its not as impractical as it sounds.

But my main point is, why does everyone seem so keen to get pay-TV on terrestrial?!?! I just don't understand it! If you want pay TV, go to UPC's CABLE network, or Sky's SATELLITE network. Why waste the bandwidth?

Particularly by giving it to Sky - if virtually anyone in Ireland wants Sky's sat service, they can get it. Why waste the terrestrial on it?

I don't care how crap free channels might be, but its better than wasting the bandwidth on channels that you could just as easy get by sat or cable.

SPDUB

Sponge Bob wrote: »

and what did watty do wrong that time ???

Who said he did anything

Strange it sounds exactly like the DAB+ thread

JHMEG

watty wrote: »

It seems AS FOLK WERE WARNED BY MODS HERE that The Irish DTT will be MPEG4 only and thus all those Freeview boxes and many of the USB sticks will be worthless.

I seem to remember mods were saying it could be anything, and not to buy any equipment.

But the reality is it's still MPEG2, and the national channels will probably stay that way for the foreseeable future. The BCI might be thinking about MPEG4, but there are numerous sensible reasons for MPEG2 to stay where it is. It's not uncommon for ignorant and ill-informed Public Servants to back-peddle.

watty

It was suggested that MPEG4 could be likely. It's the ONLY reason really why existing Freeview boxes could be useless. I've read ALL the BCI stuff. It's basically reflecting what the commercial interests think.

MPEG4 is affordable in the 2 to 3 year + timescale of a rollout starting, it does twice as many channels for virtually same broadcast network roll out cost. The People paying for the network want it as viable as possible (=max channels). The Network roll out people do not pay for the set boxes.

The BCI and the Industry players both recommend MPEG4 and MHEG EPG. It's there in B&W in the reports. No MPEG2 only or MHP only receivers.

scath

I agree with that. BBC NI and UTV recommend MPEG4. (source:)Questionnaire in my dissertation to them)

BBC NI recommend DVB T2 also for exactly the reasons ye guys mention such a as more capacity. STB MPEG 4 compliant with MPEG2 are available for not that much extra cost so I gather.

Also have you read Ofcom's consultation which wraps up in january 2008? http://www.ofcom.org.uk/consult/condocs/dttfuture/summary/

specifically in the say
"1.14 We have identified two technical advances that together could result in a very significant increase in the DTT platform’s capacity. These relate to improvements in the standards used (a) for coding (compressing) information, to squeeze as much as possible into a given amount of spectrum, and (b) in its physical transmission.

1.15 The two changes are:

* An improved video and audio coding compression standard called MPEG-4 . This is expected (over time) to operate at up to double the efficiency of the coding standard that is used at the moment on DTT, MPEG-2. This means that a DTT multiplex could carry up to twice as many services using MPEG-4 as can currently be achieved using MPEG-2, whilst maintaining similar picture quality.
* A new transmission standard, known as DVB-T2. This is expected to deliver an increase of at least 30% in the capacity of a DTT multiplex over the current standard, whilst maintaining the same coverage. This standard is a development of the existing DVB-T standard used in the UK since 1998. DVB-T2 is still undergoing development by DVB in Geneva, but is expected to be finalised in spring 2008.

1.16 It is important to note that MPEG-4 and DVB-T2 differ in one important respect. MPEG-4 can be introduced within a multiplex (so it can offer a mix of services coded in MPEG-2 and MPEG-4). But the introduction of DVB-T2 requires a whole multiplex to be converted from DVB-T. This is, of course, a larger step-change.

1.17 The introduction of these two technologies could, if combined, increase the capacity of a multiplex by up to 160%. This is a very large increase. It is the equivalent of raising the number of Standard Definition (SD) services that can be carried on a DTT multiplex from around eight currently to around 13-15 at DSO, and over 20 in the longer term. HD is generally regarded as unfeasible on DTT in the UK without use of MPEG-4: but with the use of these two technologies combined, a single DTT multiplex could in time offer at least four HD services.

1.18 However, there are important consumer issues that need to be considered in relation to any development of the technical standards used on DTT. At present, all DTT digital receivers marketed for use in the UK use the existing standards, MPEG-2 and DVB-T. Services broadcast using the new standards will only be receivable on equipment designed to the new standards (though that new equipment will also be able to receive services broadcast using the old standards, MPEG-2 and DVB-T ).

Ye probably saw that.So I suppose UK Freeview will be MPEG2 for a few years.

I would think MPEG 4 and DVB2 would be the way to go then, get it right, now, but have the boxes MPEG2-4 so that they work with UK DTT reception and in border areas.

All island DTV market would be interesting. Copyright issues would be problematic for Irish broadcasters. You'd have to have PSB joint rights acquisition. Until 2012 an ROI Mux on NI DTT doesn't have enough spectrum. Might squeeze RTÉ on it, but UTV won't have that. Not happy about that understandably. Neither would TV3 be. Could give UTV and TV3 all island market.

Also if you put the TG4 and proposed scottish Gadhlic Digital Service proposed by the BBC you could have a scottish irish service, 1 entity with just different subtitles and coverage from the Dáil & Seanad and Scottish Parliament, translated. Could get the public value hurdle overcome for GDS. And starting of in 2009 with 8 million+ viewers if BBC let it be advertiser funded. Unique oppotunity great Return on investment for Irish & Uk license fee payer. Ofcom give both a mention in it during switchover when both will be on Freeview thereafter UK wide.

No RTÉ Parliament likely for a year or two anyways despite what the Taoiseach says. These thing cost money. The TV licecense okay went up €2 but its big outlay to build the network. Revenue streams have to be got going. RTÉ News 24, nope..News in the UK is loss making. example ITV News Channel. I no Virgin Media-ITN are considering a new one. The solution I see is a joint venture with BBC World where they provide foreign news and BBC NI and RTE ramp up Irish news coverage abit. So you would have Irish news readers and Nuacht every hour and weather but some of the correspondents would be foreign.

I would imagine BBC World get the bulk of profit but RTÉ would get something out of it. Localised advertising. Also Irish Government would have to consider what Uk Gov does with grant aid.

Otherwise Ireland Live Television News proved it ain't viable. You have to have foreign news. Otherwise don't expect an Irish News channel. Loss making, east dosh.

RTÉ eduational yea. Channel 6, they'd have to apply for a terrestrial license meaning more irish programming requirements.

I see according to ComReg 07/90 a Mobile Terrestrial TV consulation will happen in Spring 2008 sometime. I'd say 02 will might go for it. I doubt 3 will. I don't thing their trial is running now. I think there'll might be spectrum for it. I'd say a wholesale network like Finland is a possibility.

Also beyond the 8 multiplexes available, a 9th in the VHF band could be available for DAB after switchover.Also in submissions 07/92s Eircom advocate a digital switchover date be set. That is kinda set at 98% according to analogue coverage. I did a survey on that of 595 people. Most are happy with 3 years but I'd say we're talking because of the commercial network 2011 switchover start by mast, Will be interesting to see when that's reached.

What do ye thing guys?

maxg

The first step is to find at least one interested firm for the additional muxes.
It doesn't matter if the additional muxes transmitting nothing in mpeg4 or nothing in mpeg2.
For instance where is the beef for sky to donate a mpeg4 box to every subscriber and offer a paytv package via irish DTT if nobody want it or where is the benefit for sky to offer a free package and pay all costs from the own pocket.
Mpeg2 is more or less fix for the RTE mux. Its not possible to switch off the analogue channels and tell the TV licence payers they have to buy an 200 euro box if they want the irish channels via aerial.
And for all the dreamers in the price question take a look at the satellite scene. What is the average price for a Humax HDCI 2000 box for satellite for instance and there is much more real demand for mpeg4 boxes than for DTT.

watty

You are confusing HD and MPEG4. They are not the same.

Also the Humax has DVB-S2, much more expensive tuner than a Terrestrial tuner.
It is a top of the range with HDMI and twin CI slots.

All MPEG4 boxes do MPEG2 also.

@maxg
Vist the next trade show and see what 2008 & 2009 have coming. No-one will be making MPEG2 only boxes soon. By 2009 there will be no price differential for SD. There will be for PVRs or HD. But NO-ONE ANYWHERE is going to do HD via MPEG2. Any HD Channels will not replace SD channels for some years after analogue shutdown.

maxg

As long as there is demand on the market there will be always mpeg2 only boxes offered.
Practically there is no difference between mpeg4 and HD. Show me a mpeg4 box for sat without HD capability. The old HD1 boxes used mpeg2.

Sponge Bob

You are forgetting that large carriers ( sky and bbc ) and regulators want to move to mpeg4 as soon as feasible. Its better use of spectrum, simple.

Incentivising HD launch and rollout is the way to do that .

watty

The difference is Terrestrial is not Satelllite. EVERY TV needs a box before analogue switch off. An MPEG4 SD DTT box is already same price to make as MPEG2, and does MPEG2 anyway.

Satellite has the capacity to have every channel HD and is higher percentage of pay TV. In time Sky will only supply HD PVRs.

Terrestrial will have a high percentage of as cheap as possible FTA, one box for every room. The manufacturers will cut costs by offering three boxes:
1) SD MPEG4 & MPEG2 (no money saved by MPEG2 only next year).
2) HD/SD MPEG4 & MPEG2.
3) Dual Tuner and Hard Disk Drive.

That's where the price breaks are. By 2009 the only MPEG2 only DTT will be boxes using up old inventory.

$12 for a chip with CPU and full MPEG4 H.264 AVC for SD with analogue video out and analogue video in (MPEG capture). They have been using them in cheap Satnavs for 9 months already! It does MP3, MPEG2 etc of course too.

Sponge Bob

Without getting into the details I can assure all here that ferocious pressure is being exerted on commercial channels, chiefly from advertisers, to move to HD as soon as possible.

The same advertisers were remarkably blasé on the matter only this time last year.

There has been a step change , its not obvious to all but it has nevertheless occured.

watty

Will Unilever give me a free HD TV so I can see how White the clothes will be?

Is it US influence? HD is a huge step in Quality compared with Analogue NTSC, but with the 1366x 768 TVs and 37" and smaller HDTV it's not very compelling increase in quality here compared with good SD Digital bitrate 702x576 or good Analogue PAL.

Without decent CONTENT, people are going to watch DVDs or play games more.

byte

watty wrote: »

Will Unilever give me a free HD TV so I can see how White the clothes will be?

No, but if you buy it and are not happy, they'll give you your money back!

a bientot

Belgium (French) launches DTT (TNT)

After many years of 'tests' on Monday last, the RTBF launched digital terrestrial for the ten per cent who do not have cable/satellite tv.
The package consists of RTBF1, RTBF2, RTBFSAT (a mixed version of the two)
and from next week Euronews.
Reports in the Belgian press suggest that there will some other channels provided before analogue is switched of in the coming years

So if no one is interested here in Ireland...............then we can copy Belgium.

claytonie

Are there are any entry level Mpeg-4 digital combo receivers on the market at the moment?

flogen

btw - I think an RTÉ News channel would be unviable - I'd bet more on an RTÉ Current Affairs station that featured regular news and weather (hourly 5-10 minute updates?) alongside repeats of RTÉ's standard current affairs programming... all piled in with some Euronews and BBC World for international coverage and a bit of unique programming (like a daily news review show, sports show etc.).

I wouldn't be surprised to see them create an Educational/News channel even with hourly news headlines (which would largely be looped like on RTÉ's Digital News DAB station).

maxg

claytonie wrote: »

Are there are any entry level Mpeg-4 digital combo receivers on the market at the moment?

I know only four mpeg4 dtt box models and they are only cheap if you can get an sponsored one.
Beside that all 4 support mpeg2, mpeg4 and HD.

watty

All MPEG4 "anythings" support MPEG2
Spring/Summer 2008 will see a lot more products. But for us there is no rush. It's doubtful that much will happen here till 2009. also there is no genuine time scale to start or finish a rollout. I'm more worried about not being able to get things with an Analogue tuner at all before the whole country gets DTT coverage.

I think already we are starting to see some "below cost dumping" of analogue only products here as the major retailers in the other markets are encourged to only ship products with Digital Tuners. UK is talking about outlawing sale of Analogue only tuner products shortly.

It's also very much more expensive to have an Analogue tuner and Digital tuner in a PVR. A digital only Tuner PVR (even MPEG4) is also cheaper to make than a Analogue Tuner and does better quality recordings as no encoding is needed. The received MPEG4 or MPEg2 is recorded directly. In fact one DTT PVR model records ALL channels on all MUX simultaneously so you never have to program recordings, you always can always browse the previous 7 days via EPG.