Information on secondary schools in Dublin?

Johnny Storm

I hope this is the right forum. If not please move or delete.
I am looking for some objective information to help me decide which secondary school in Dublin to send my children to.
My children are in 3rd and 4th class in primary school. My wife and I did not go to school in Dublin and oddly enough it seems anyone I ask says that the school they went to was great and all the others are crap.;)

FYI We did "register" the kids at a number of fee paying schools many years ago. These include Andrews, Wesley, St Gerards, Columbus, Sanford Park. We prefer mixed schools and non-religious-oriented. I'm not really looking for people's opinions on the above schools (except maybe people who have kids there now). I'm really looking for a sensible way to select which school would best suit my children.
Is anyone aware of any reasonably good, objective information for parents to help select a school?
All and any help, thoughts, opinions appreciated.

Lizzykins

When mine started secondary school convenience was the main reason for sending them where I did. The school is only a kilometre away so they cycle/walk. Like yourself I wanted co-ed and non religious and found that in the local community school. Very luckily the eldest got in so the other two followed and number four has her name down since six weeks of age.

You will very likely have no bother getting your kids into a private school but from experience myself, of going to school outside my locality it's more difficult to make and retain friends. You have to think of how long a bus journey might be or do you want years of driving them?

If it was me in the same position I would look at the local school and see what the kids are like who go there. If they seem decent ordinary kids then the school is probably fine. Unless you live in a seriously disadvantaged area the local school is more than likely absolutely fine.

smilingeyerish

I agree with Lizzykins in terms of proximity, it would definitely make sense to go to a school that is close to you.

the other thing i want to say is purely my opinion and so might not be the right advice. i wouldnt send children to a fee paying school. i dont think the education you get is any better than one you get from a public school. i think that if, like Lizzykins said, there is an alright community school near you it would be the best option. there, you children will learn better socila skills, they will get to interact with a broad spectrum of people and will learn to deal with and respect all types of people. in my experience children from private schools only mix with children of their own kind of social and economic background, this gives them a very closed view of the world. of course the friends they choose within the school may be from the same background but they will still be exposed to all types of people. in the long run i think this makes a more rounded and better socially educated child.

also, your children will probably go and get grinds in some of their subjects before junior and leaving certs despite you paying for their education already in school. why pay so much money twice?? it should be the case that if you pay for education thats what you get but half the students in grinds schools come from fee paying schools. it doesnt make sense.

anyway,take it or leave it, thats my opinioin.

Kildrought

Here's my thoughts for what it's worth

First off list out all the schools that are within reasonable striking distance of your home. Personally I think a 20-30 mins bus ride is ok, but you may differ. Anything that is not on a bus route (public or school) where you are required to drive them to it should come off your list in my view - it's just too much grind every day for the next 10/12 years.

Then consider what you are looking for in the school ethos e.g. mixed, single-sex, religion etc.,

[Unfortunately you can't get away from religion - all second level schools have a religious leaning - there are no truly Multi-Denominational schools at second level, community schools may be nominally multi-d but in truth they are primarily RC which I suppose reflects the community they are based in.]

After that look at you/your child's interests - for example if you are a very sporty family and your child is also, you may want to consider a school that has a strong emphasis on sports. If your child is very artistic and the school's art department isn't particularly strong, that might push it a bit further down the list. If your child has special needs - check out what additional support the school can offer.

Hopefully you should now have a reasonably short list; most schools have open days go and visit a few of them and get a feel for the place. See if you can meet a few parents from the parents association.

The very last thing I would consider is fees - if the school that suits you /your child best happens to be a fee-paying school, you can get a place and you can afford the fees then go ahead.

another useful link is the National Parents Council www.npc.ie

Johnny Storm

Thanks to all for the thoughtful and helpful replies.

Dizzyblonde

I also agree that proximity is important - if the school is relatively near your children can do after-hours activities such as sports and still have time for homework and other things. Teenagers need to chill out too and if they're spending a lot of time travelling it's a waste in my opinion.
My children went to RC secondary schools and there wasn't much religion shoved down their throats, it was more about morals and learning about various religions.
Lastly, I just want to say that sending a child to a fee-paying school doesn't make them more academically inclined (it's amazing but some parents actually think it does!).

Monkey61

I know people are often quick to knock fee paying schools, but do bear in mind that a lot of these schools have much better facilities for sports, music, art and have loads of other extra curricular activities on offer that other schools can't afford.
It might also be worth a look at the league tables that I think were published in the sunday times?? last year as they rate schools on quite a few different criteria,and although they may not give an entirely accurate picture, you will at least get an idea about what the schools main strengths are.

ryanairzer

Is it just me, or is the idea of the parents deciding weird?

smilingeyerish

its just you ryanaizer, who else is going to decide where a child should go to school???

microgirl

Kildrought wrote: »

[Unfortunately you can't get away from religion - all second level schools have a religious leaning - there are no truly Multi-Denominational schools at second level, community schools may be nominally multi-d but in truth they are primarily RC which I suppose reflects the community they are based in.]

Not completely true. I went to Mount Temple in Clontarf (sister school on the Southside is Newpark) and there's definitely no RC leaning there. Now that may be because it's a Protestant non-denominational school, as opposed to the community schools which are, as you say, just not RC Church run. But genuinely, there was no emphasis on any particular ethos in Mount Temple. I suppose the RE classes were broadly Christian, but I don't recall ever covering the life of Christ, or specifically Christian beliefs. It was more basic morals and ethics and stuff like that. Mind you, I mightn't have been aware of something being specificaly Christian, as I didn't have any experience of non-Christian stuff to throw it into contrast.

There was a Muslim family in the school when I was there, back when there weren't many Muslim families in Ireland ('88-'94), a Jehovah's Witness family and a Jewish family, and that's just the ones I knew about. For the most part religion simply wasn't anything anyone was aware of. I only knew of the Muslim family because I was in Guides with them, and one of the JW was a good friend of mine.

I'd definitely recommend Mount Temple as a good non-religious, co-ed school. At least it certainly was in my time. I can only presume Newpark is the same.

ryanairzer

smilingeyerish wrote: »

its just you ryanaizer, who else is going to decide where a child should go to school???

the 12 year old child...?

Kildrought

they are primarily RC

By which I meant the overwhelming majority of community schools are RC

Protestant non-denominational school

Not possible! There are no non-denominational schools in Ireland. Mount Temple is under 'Protestant' Management.

If the school has a COI/Presbyterian/etc., etc., ethos then that is the criteria by which enrolments are decided.

RE is defined by the Dept of Education's curriculum definition (the document is available on their website). It is almost completely Christian in its approach.

Dame Edna

HI All
I am moving from the sourthisaide and need help as to what non feeing school to send my child to! Its either of two St Pauls in Wakinstown or Loreto in Crumlin can people pls help!!!!!

Lizzykins

Only know one St Paul's in Greenhills but there is the Assumption in Walkinstown that I went to years ago. It was a good school in those days and hopefully has not changed too much!

BostonB

I would say proximity is very important factor. Means the child doesn't waste time commuting and their friends, and people they can share school work etc with will be nearby. Most of their friends will be local too.

luckat

Proximity too. My son went to Mount Temple, and we lived southside. All his friends in his teens were from the northside, ranging from Sutton to Coolock to inner city.

Years later he's still friends with many of them, by the way.

It's much better if you can have your kids' friends home, so you can know who and how they are, and you can set up homework sessions in your own house for kid and friends.

And friendships work more easily if your homes are within drop-in reach of each other.

It also means the kid can go to after-school activities without having to cycle or bus home in the dark or be picked up, involving a drive across the city.

the dee

ryanairzer wrote: »

the 12 year old child...?

I agree, I think the child should have some input in this decision. I know I did when I was that age. They'll probably want to go to the same school as their primary school friends.

I think it's important that the child's opinion is taken into consideration.

Kildrought

They'll probably want to go to the same school as their primary school friends

Well exactly...hardly a sound basis on which to chose a school.

jimmycrackcorm

ryanairzer wrote: »

the 12 year old child...?

In retrospect I am so glad my parents overrode my choice of secondary school when I was 12. They obviously were wiser than me for some strange reason.

the dee

Kildrought wrote: »

Well exactly...hardly a sound basis on which to chose a school.

Well the child is the one who'll have to go there every day for the next 5 - 6 years. Shouldn't they have some input?

High&Low

Most 12 year olds if given a choice would choose not to go to school. Do you reckon a 12 year old or a parent would make the more mature decision?

the dee

Ah come on, they know they'll have to go to school. They're going to have preferences eg: Single-sex, local, bus ride, where their friends are going.

I doubt the actual school makes a huge difference to the child's future, unless it's a really bad, run-down, crime-riddled hole.

I was asked what school I wanted to go to, as were my siblings. 3 different schools in the end. We all turned out fine. It wasn't left entirely up to us of course, but we were all happy with where we went.

LegacyUser

Dame Edna wrote: »

HI All
I am moving from the sourthisaide and need help as to what non feeing school to send my child to! Its either of two St Pauls in Wakinstown or Loreto in Crumlin can people pls help!!!!!

my daughter has been in st. Pauls since Junior Infants, I have found the school absotutely great, but most importantly she loves it. She has just gone into 3rd class now, there is great after school activities, and an after school care if you are working yourself/ I hope you find this helpful.

ebmma

my OH was given a choice of secondary school when he was a kid. He could have continued on in Sandford park (his primary) but chose not to. Strangely at that age he understood he doesn't want to limit the types of people he knows by posh kids

eviltwin

My daughter started first year this year and she chose her own school.

The primary school she was in was a feeder of an all girls school called Manor House in Raheny...most of the girls in the local primary would have ended up there myself included

I dont have anything against the school but encouraged my daughter to go to all the open days and see for herself what she thinks. In the end she chose a mixed school in the same area and absolutely loves it.

Unless the school was a total failure I would have no problem whatsoever letting the child make his or her own choices about it.

I know my daughter's main criteria was subject choice..the single sex school didnt have the same options as the school she is in now and that was her main reason for picking it..I trust her to make the right decision and judging by how well she has settled in I'm glad I did

implausible

the dee wrote: »

Ah come on, they know they'll have to go to school. They're going to have preferences eg: Single-sex, local, bus ride, where their friends are going.

I doubt the actual school makes a huge difference to the child's future, unless it's a really bad, run-down, crime-riddled hole.

I was asked what school I wanted to go to, as were my siblings. 3 different schools in the end. We all turned out fine. It wasn't left entirely up to us of course, but we were all happy with where we went.

There's no way the majority of 12 year olds have the maturity or foresight to decide their educational future. Unless a child is painfully shy, s/he will make friends in any school, so letting them make a decision based on where their friends are going is daft (especially when those friends' schools will have most likely been decided by their parents).

At the end of the day, it's the parents who will fork out and provide transport and pick up the pieces if it goes wrong.

implausible

eviltwin wrote: »

my daughter's main criteria was subject choice..the single sex school didnt have the same options as the school she is in now and that was her main reason for picking it..

She sounds like a well clued-in and mature girl, well done! However, all 12 year olds aren't like that and usually it is the parents who would be considering things like subject choice.

ebmma

deemark wrote: »

She sounds like a well clued-in and mature girl, well done! However, all 12 year olds aren't like that and usually it is the parents who would be considering things like subject choice.

you mean a 12 year old has no say over what subjects he/she is taking? That's not really a subject 'choice' than, is it?

eviltwin

deemark wrote: »

She sounds like a well clued-in and mature girl, well done! However, all 12 year olds aren't like that and usually it is the parents who would be considering things like subject choice.

Yeah the all girls school is a very "traditional" girls school so a lot of the things she wanted to do weren't offered.

I honestly would be shocked if any parent picked their childs subjects..I mean surely its not up to the parent to decide what their kids learn?

LeoB

No matter where the kids go if they want to do the work they will do well whether its a fee or non-fee paying school. If you pay a fee you will be paying on the double when the grinds start.

Our eldest starts secondary next year we looked at 3 or 4 schools but settled for 1 which is the nearest to us which is what he wanted.

The child is the most important thing here not the parents wishes.

Sandra.c

Was at an information day yesterday in Mt Temple, and interestingly even though it is under Protestant Management - Catholic children are in the majority. Yes, if you are Protestant and in a feeder school you will be given priority, but it doesn't mean that most kids going are Protestants.

Chuchoter

If you can, ask as many people with kids in the schools you're thinking of what they think. You would be very surprised that a lot of private schools with good reputations are not anywhere near as good as you would think.

Also, proximity is a massive factor. I would love to be in the local school because all my friends would live nearby and I'd never have a long trip home from school. My brothers school is a half hour bus ride, but its so exhausting and confusing trying to organize things. The other thing to consider is where are the people in the school from. If you are living in town A but most of the school lives in town B, its hard to make friends because everyone else is always calling over to other people's houses impromptu and you're not there.

Gloomtastic!

Sandra.c wrote: »

Was at an information day yesterday in Mt Temple, and interestingly even though it is under Protestant Management - Catholic children are in the majority. Yes, if you are Protestant and in a feeder school you will be given priority, but it doesn't mean that most kids going are Protestants.

I believe this may be changing.

The criteria for getting into Mt Temple are:
1. A member of the Protestant faith.
2. A sibling attending Mt Temple
3. A pupil in one of several feeder schools in the area.

Due to the recession, Protestant families who would normally send their kids to fee-paying schools, are opting instead for the free education at Mt Temple. This means that in the year coming. 2011-2012 numerousl pupils who have been attending one the feeder schools have not got a place if they don't meet the first two criteria.

I went to stratford college in rathgar, it's a very small school which has no religion except for the jewish students (which basically meant the rest of us had classics class while they had hebrew class, and we got half days on friday instead of wednesday), fee paying. I had no idea what religion half the students were and we didn't care
I liked it and I recommend it since you said you wanted non religion and mixed

Kildrought

Not strictly true - the school declares clearly that it's ethos is based on the Jewish faith and places are given first to Jewish students.

Kildrought

Kildrought wrote: »

Not strictly true - the school declares clearly that it's ethos is based on the Jewish faith and places are given first to Jewish students.

Right yeah sorry, I just mean it didn't really have any effect other than what I said. There were so few jewish students I don't think getting in would be a problem

Napoleon111

Hi all,
Just came across this thread today and find it interesting. The reason i have been browsing this site is I will be having my first child in a few months (totally s$&t scared by the way!). One of the things that crossed my mind when i found out, on top of everything else, is that I would like to give my child the best education experience possible, whether that means a fee paying school or not, i think its still very much open to debate. One thing i do know is that when i was younger (i have 4 other siblings), my mother literally sacrificed everything for me (not so much with the rest, i dont know why!) and my education. I went to st.columba's for 5 years (costs are roughly 20keuro a year, so close to 100k for my secondary education). I'm 23 now, finished there in 2005. When the recession took hold a few years back, my mother (who was divorced and alone) pretty much lost everything, and even at the moment, the bank is looking to reposses her home (as its part of the busines, but neither here nor there). The one thing she always said to me and my brothers and sisters is that she didnt care what it meant for her, once we had the best opportunities possible (which i think is the same for all parents). Now, whether that meant spending 100k for my education (and then not being able to give my younger brother the same level education as me cos she cant afford it, is again, questionable) gave me the best opportunity in life? well who knows! but the fact that I got my girlfriend "accidentally" pregnant at 23 (shes 25), maybe thats a sign on what happens if you spend too much time in a co-ed boarding scholl!
Now, on to the school. Well to be honest, whilst i was there at the start i hated it, some of the rules are archaic to say the least! chapel every morning, and for an hour on sunday? it was a protestant school (I come from a very catholic background), but that never made a difference, it didnt matter if you were black, white, jewish, muslim, catholic, protestant. Everyone had to attend the chapel everyday, whether you took part, was up to you, but I suppose in a sense it was one of the few times when the whole school was together, and it wasnt always religion based, if you know what i mean. We often had people coming in to share their experiences, and we would be told stories that are essentially morally good, as opposed to being religous.
The teaching was excellent, the friends I have made there I will have for life, and having such a multi-culture feel to it, I have had the opportunity to literally travel to world to visit my friends (from some of the furtherst corners of the earth).
I think the support that was given in terms of learning, and then later on in terms of career choices etc and college choices, they were a massive help.
To be honest, I dont think i would be where I am now if it wasnt for the sacrifices my mother made for me, and the opportunities I have had because of my education.
I think I am in a lucky position to have a v.good job for my age, that leads me to believe that I can actually financially support a child (although that is yet to be known for sure!)
I suppose what I am saying is, you will read some very different things on st.columbas, but from my own personal experience, I loved every minute of it and i wouldnt change a thing if i could go back in time.
The caveat is though, that for some families it is simply not possible to spend 20k a year on school. I will be putting my childs name down when they are born, whether I will be able to afford it come the time, thats a different matter!
All the best,
Nap

spurious

By far the biggest influence on how your child will do is parental involvement, interest and encouragement.
It doesn't matter if money is spent or not.
Sounds like your kids are ahead of the game already.