Fingal housholders face €110 bin charge

ocj

What do you think of this?

http://www.rte.ie/news/2007/1120/waste.html

sharkman

Thats just under 14 weeks charges , taking that its not on top of the €8 allready in place .

Bluetonic

sharkman wrote: »

Thats just under 14 weeks charges , taking that its not on top of the €8 allready in place .

I would most definitely say it's a flat fee then pay as you put out the bin.

Mr Howell said there was a €6.9m shortfall in the cost of the service last year and, with an expanded service, additional revenue would be required

Allowing unlimited bin collection for the existing cost of 14 weeks charges wouldn't bring in additional revenue.

sgarvan

i would say it is a flat fee aswell as a tag.

i know that if this is introduced people will fook everything they have into their bins and not care about recycling.

I recycle alot of stuff and only put my black bin out about every 6-8 weeks so the tagging option suited me perfect.

Fingleberries

Typical - just add an extra charge, what are you going to do about it. It's like the proposed water charges that we'll end up paying shortly - you can't do without it so you end up just paying it.

Try saying anything to the Government about it (e.g. I pay loads of taxes, why doesn't it cover this like it used to?) and they'll respond with some excuse (I know, it's terrible. But there's nothing we can do about it, it's the local Authority that is setting this charge).

The Local government say "Well, we wouldn't have to put this charge in place but you know the Government".

Catch-22 all around.

Sizzler

They can whistle if they think they're getting €110 on top of the pay as you go.

sgarvan

if this charge comes in I can see more and more roadside dumping and backyard fires taking place.

torqdj

gone are the days when your actual tax on you wages paid for things,

torqdj

and all the ministers got a payrise, surely that money could have gone to pay for this

Beechman

I have just checked with Fingal Co Co and they confirmed that you still have to tag (€8.00) your bin when you put it out ! This €110 fee is an additional tax !!!! .

I put out the bin fortnightly so 26 weeks x 8.00 = €208+€110 = €318 plus yearly !!!!!!

Where is the competition I ask ?

Unshelved

It's a strange move considering the local elections will take place next year. I'd say there will be a pretty strong backlash against sitting councillors over this one.

Bluetonic

The full press release.

20/11/07 Full kerbside waste and recycling collection to be rolled out in Fingal


Fingal County Council has confirmed it is extending its brown bin service countywide so that householders can recycle up to two thirds of their household waste through their green and brown bin services. This rollout of the full household recycling service is to be substantially completed in Fingal during 2008. The green bin service will also be expanded.

P.J. Howell, Director of Environment with Fingal County Council, confirmed today that building on the success of the brown bin pilot project, plans are well advanced to extend the brown bin service to every house in Fingal and to double the frequency of the green bin collection to twice per month, including allowing plastic bottles in the packaging to be accepted in the green bin.

“Rolling out the full recycling service will have implications for how Fingal County Council recovers its costs for operating the household waste management service”, P.J. outlines, “and we undertake to make any changes in our charges as fair and user friendly as possible.”

“From 2008 we must introduce a fixed charge of €110 per year on a phased basis, once a household has been provided with the full range of kerbside recycling services i.e. the green and brown recycle bins and the black bin for non-recyclable waste,” the Director explains. “We must operate a refuse and recycling service that pays for itself and at the moment it is heavily subsidised”, P.J. says.

In 2007 Fingal County Council spent €20.1m collecting and managing household waste, €10.4 million of this on recycling services alone. €11.1m of this cost was contributed by the householder through bin tags. A further €2.1m was recovered from the sale of the dry recyclable material and from Government grants, a figure not as high as is commonly thought. The remaining €6.9m shortfall arising from the cost of the service was subsidised by Fingal County Council. In 2008 costs will increase further for an expanded waste management service. The cost of the green and brown bins together will increase from €7.3m to €11m.

“For this new flat charge, each household will get a sticker for each of their three bins, but will only need to use a bin tag on their black refuse bin when they put this out for collection,” P.J. says. “There won’t be any increase in the charge for a bin tag next year”, he points out, “and people who qualify for waivers will not be affected.”

“We are still giving the maximum control of waste costs to each household”, P.J. says. “Every house will have 2 brown and 2 green bin collections every month, so we expect black bins to be presented only every 3 weeks”, he continues. “This equates to a cost of less than €5 per household per week for the full range of kerbside waste management services”, he explains. “Even if a black bin is put out and tagged every second week, the cost per week for the full service is still only a little over €6”, the Director says. “We are also continuing with our very generous waiver scheme” he adds.

“Two thirds of household waste will be recycled once the full service is rolled out across Fingal,” the Director says. “Fingal residents have always embraced the recycling challenge and last year they recycled 24,000 tonnes or 25% of household waste, a 120% improvement on recycling over a 3 year period and this figure will be even higher in 2007”, he added. “With the roll out of the full recycling service which we committed to in the Waste Management Plan for Dublin, we will achieve best practice in Ireland and Europe”, he adds. “Our householders have a lot to be proud of,” P.J. says, “and I expect that they will adapt to our new system and continue to manage their waste in a responsible and cost effective way”.

Full details of the roll out of the full household recycling service and the introduction of the flat charge will be circulated to every home in the county in the coming months.

For further information please contact:


Florence White, Communications Officer, Fingal County Council
Tel: 01 890 5998 M: 087 4141580 Email: florence.white@fingalcoco.ie

grahamo

I'm not happy with that. However, there's too much apathy in this country so people will moan for a while and then cough up! Where is my tax euros going these days?

Fyr.Fytr

Well bugger all that recycling ive been doing, its all going in the grey bin, getting my moneys worth now

EVGR

The more you put in the green and brown bin the less you put in the black and if you get the halfsize bin, you only pay €4 and you might not even have to put it out every week.

To save the environment costs money. It's a shame people are not willing to sacrifice a little for environment.

Bluetonic

EVGR wrote: »

The more you put in the green and brown bin the less you put in the black and if you get the halfsize bin, you only pay €4 and you might not even have to put it out every week.

What stupid logic, please think before you post.

Half size or full size it will fill at the same rate and cost the same to be emptied.

Everyone in my area already utilizes the green and brown bin to the max, while restricting the grey bin being left out until necessary. The grey bin goes out once ever 4/5 weeks. Such a shame FCC are now punishing us by increasing our bing charges by more than 100%.

This is only going to do one thing and reduce the amount of recycling that take place.

Wishbone Ash

sgarvan wrote: »

I recycle alot of stuff and only put my black bin out about every 6-8 weeks so the tagging option suited me perfect.

Bluetonic wrote: »

This is only going to do one thing and reduce the amount of recycling that take place.

I also recycle a lot of my waste, either in the green bin or the other stuff to the recycle centre in Balleally. I manage to go for 8 to 10 weeks without putting out the grey bin. The 'pay per bin' system was a great incentive and the envy of friends around the country who have to pay a flat rate.

I don't understand the Council's logic. I was under the impression that they wanted us to reduce the amount of times we leave the bin out.

I was talking to a Councillor today and explaining that I only put the bin out every 8 to 10 weeks. He replied that it was because of people like me that they are forced to introduce this charge. i.e. they are not making any money from me. He also said that it was agreed that it will be raised in the spring to €140. :eek:

I'll still recycle a lot but I think it's a bit of a slap in the face!

PS - presumably the €110 will be tax deductable as per tags?

Nevyn

The cost of a replacement wheelie bin is about 100 euro,
so basically they are charging everyone for thier brown bin as the majority of households in the area don't have one.

Rashers72

It's just another 'stealth' tax. I assume you can write this amount, plus the bin tags, off against tax?
At least you can just post the receipt off, not like collecting all the tags, which is a pain, and most people fail to do.

Zaph

Thaedydal wrote: »

The cost of a replacement wheelie bin is about 100 euro,
so basically they are charging everyone for thier brown bin as the majority of households in the area don't have one.

Yeah, but unfortunately they won't just leave it at that for one year, they'll keep charging for that extra bin in perpetuity and hike the charges every year.

SeaSide

Wonder how much FCC makes from the dump at Ballealy from SDCC, DCC and DLR? Didnt get a mention in the figures in the press release.

Wishbone Ash

Rashers72 wrote: »

not like collecting all the tags, which is a pain, and most people fail to do.

There is no requirement to collect the tag ends. Just ring your tax office. They will ask you how many weeks you put out your bin. (52 ) and they specifically request you not to send tag ends. I'm getting the full tax rebate even though I only put out the bin about 6 times per year!

sharkman

They can **** off, they left my bin behind last week because the lid was not closed and they said it was overloaded .

I rang and chewed them a new one !

Sizzler

So how exactly is this going to work and how are they going to enforce it

Are they going to invoice every household in the county?
Are the bin man going to know if you have paid the €110 or not even when you have put a tag on your bin?

Load of bollix.

Carawaystick

They are going to give you 3 stickers for yer 110 euros and you will stick one on each of yer bins. if you have space for the 3 bins that is.

I can see their point about needing to start charging for the green bin as they are obliged to make a profit on the rubbish collection. why not just increase the black tag to 12 and have a smaller tag for the green and brown of say 4.

I put my black bin out about every 6 weeks and green every month or two. if I'm to put food waste in a new brown bin, then I'll be able to reduce my black bin usage more. but I'll have to pay fingal 110 to get my brown bin collected. So I'll just bring my rubbish to baleally along with my recycling for 8 euros a go every six weeks instead.

Also they are discontinuing the waiver system so every house hold will have to pay for refuse collection, irrespective of the circumstances of that household.

Wishbone Ash

Carawaystick wrote: »

They are going to give you 3 stickers for yer 110 euros and you will stick one on each of yer bins

Sounds like I'll have to ride shotgun over my bins! :eek:

BrandonBlock

Feck this, my rubbish is going out the car window from now on, down some quiet backroad in finglas. That'll show em. Note to self: Dont leave utility bills in the rubbish.

infinitejest

Hmm...

Can you opt out of this 'service charge'?? If I return my black & green bins (I was never offered a brown bin) to FCC, can I legally opt out of this so-called 'service' and decide how to dispose of my waste myself (legally of course...I DO NOT mean burning it in back garden/throwing in the nearest ditch.)

Could I have a private arrangement with a neighbour where only one 'service' charge is paid between the two of us? Or is this, as I suspect, actually a tax that cannot be avoided.

We already recycle a lot and only put the black bin out every 6-8 weeks. I make an effort not to purchase excess packaging and try to compost and recycle as much as possible with out being obsessive- this really seems like a punishment on people who recycle/reduse waste.

Fingleberries

Something useful in this digital age, is that our Public representatives are all available for contact online through e-mail, also their contact information is all available at our fingertips.

For County Councillors:
- http://www.fingalcoco.ie/YourLocalCouncil/Councillors/
- Click on your area and it should open a new page with their details.

For TD's:
- Mailing and e-mail addresses: http://www.oireachtas.ie/ViewDoc.asp?DocId=-1&CatID=138&m=m
- For phone numbers, etc, it might be on their web sites: http://www.oireachtas.ie/ViewDoc.asp?fn=/documents/members/document1.htm&CatID=35&m=m

There's not much point in us just moaning among ourselves - we should target our moaning at them

I don't hold my breath for any major changes once they've got their minds set, but I've sent e-mails to each of the Councillors in my area, another e-mail went to the TD's. Let's see if my cynicism is misplaced - don't think so, somehow :rolleyes:

Fingalian

Good suggestion Fingleberries, I think the Councillors get to vote on it next week? we should mail them all and ask them how they intend to vote?

Buck Mulligan

The local councilors are bugger all use as the County Manager and his “management team” run the whole kip. If the Councilors don’t vote for the increase, the “management” will introduce it anyway in this or some other form. My advice – letters / e-mails / phone calls to David O’Connor / PJ Howell (the ringmasters in the circus that is Fingal). If this carry on is local democracy – give me central planning!

Fingleberries

That's very true - I forgot that the County Manager and his team can force the thing through even if it gets voted down. I love democracy.

It's like the Nice referendum all over again. The majority voted a resounding "No", so the government came back six months later to go "Do you want to try answering that again" and put some trick phrasing in there to make sure that the majority would have to vote "Yes" the second time around.

Wishbone Ash

Fingleberries wrote: »

That's very true - I forgot that the County Manager and his team can force the thing through even if it gets voted down. I love democracy.

It's like the Nice referendum all over again. The majority voted a resounding "No", so the government came back six months later to go "Do you want to try answering that again" and put some trick phrasing in there to make sure that the majority would have to vote "Yes" the second time around.

...and everyone seems to forget that on the day of the first Nice referendum, we also voted on two other issues (Death Penalty and International Court of Justice) but we were only required to re-vote on the Nice one! When I challeneged this with our representatives at the doorstep in the subsequent elections none of them appeared to know what I was talking about!)

*shakes fist*

Sizzler

Typical FCC.

They run an inefficient service and expect householders to pay for their incompetance :rolleyes:

If it was run PROPERLY this proposed charge wouldnt have even be considered. Fcukin clowns.

If its making such a loss then reconsider how many times you send out your trucks, how many households leave their black bin out every week? Id say a small minority so why dont you only run the service every fortnight? I'm not going to post any more ideas, why should I do their job for them.
Would I be right in saying also that there is money to be made from recycling the green bin contents?

Wishbone Ash

Sizzler wrote: »

Would I be right in saying also that there is money to be made from recycling the green bin contents?

No you wouldn't - it costs money to recycle many things. Some have to be exported as far away as China! :rolleyes:

sharkman

Anyone know how to start an online petition ???

Sizzler

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

No you wouldn't - it costs money to recycle many things. Some have to be exported as far away as China! :rolleyes:

How many of those things that need to go to China are found in the average householders green bin :rolleyes: Care to give us an example? I would imagine the average householders bin is made up of paper and cardboard, if we cant recycle that here then the country is worse off then I thought

Sizzler

sharkman wrote: »

Anyone know how to start an online petition ???

http://www.ipetitions.com/start-petition/

Wishbone Ash

Sizzler wrote: »

How many of those things that need to go to China are found in the average householders green bin :rolleyes: Care to give us an example? I would imagine the average householders bin is made up of paper and cardboard, if we cant recycle that here then the country is worse off then I thought

A neighbour who works in the tiphead in Balleally tells me that much of the plastics are exported, some of it to China. He also said that many the companies who collect the recycled stuff from the recycling areas are paid to collect it even though many people think they pay the Council for it.

Sizzler

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

A neighbour who works in the tiphead in Balleally tells me that much of the plastics are exported, some of it to China. He also said that many the companies who collect the recycled stuff from the recycling areas are paid to collect it even though many people think they pay the Council for it.

Since when do green bins take plastic, just checked Oxigen's website and theres no mention

blue diver

BrandonBlock wrote: »

Feck this, my rubbish is going out the car window from now on, down some quiet backroad in finglas. That'll show em. Note to self: Dont leave utility bills in the rubbish.

gone are the days when you could burn the lot in the back garden:eek:

Wishbone Ash

Sizzler wrote: »

Since when do green bins take plastic, just checked Oxigen's website and theres no mention

The green bins do not take plastic but it is accepted at the Council's Recycling centres - plastic bottles, plastic cartons/trays, plastic bags/packaging etc.

Sizzler

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

The green bins do not take plastic but it is accepted at the Council's Recycling centres - plastic bottles, plastic cartons/trays, plastic bags/packaging etc.

Well thats slightly off subject in fairness, we were discussing the inefficiency of their black & green bin service. Bring along centres is a far cry from that.

Do you work for FCC

The Hill Billy

I read somewhere last week that it was proposed that plastics will be acceptable in the green bin once the new & improved, super-duper, €110-a-year waste service is introduced.

If I can find the link I'll post it later.

Wishbone Ash

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

No you wouldn't - it costs money to recycle many things. Some have to be exported as far away as China! :rolleyes:

Sizzler wrote: »

How many of those things that need to go to China are found in the average householders green bin :rolleyes:

On "Questions and Answers" (RTE 1 TV) tonight they have been discussing the expense of sending materials for recycling to China!

Sizzler

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

On "Questions and Answers" (RTE 1 TV) tonight they have been discussing the expense of sending materials for recycling to China!

Yes, but if you look at my post that you quoted I was refering to GREEN bins!

Currently plastics are not accepted in green bins hence its not part of this discussion.

The Hill Billy

Sizzler wrote: »

Yes, but if you look at my post that you quoted I was refering to GREEN bins!

Currently plastics are not accepted in green bins hence its not part of this discussion.

See here regarding the expansion of the Green Bin service to include plastics. (Bottom of 2nd paragraph.)

Sizzler

^^ Great stuff.

I still don't agree with the €110 tax hike, do you?

The Hill Billy

Sizzler wrote: »

^^ Great stuff.

I still don't agree with the €110 tax hike, do you?

No I don't. I think that it is inequitable.
We should pay by weight, or per collection.

Wishbone Ash

Sizzler wrote: »

Yes, but if you look at my post that you quoted I was refering to GREEN bins!

Currently plastics are not accepted in green bins hence its not part of this discussion.

I don't understand the point you are making regarding green bins.

I don't work for the council and I've no intention of defending them. I disagree with the new fee but trying to seperate the green bin issue from the total recycling service costs is a bit like saying that your Motor tax should only be spent on the roads that you use. I'm sure that the cost of providing recycling services are looked at as a whole and that any income gained from one aspect is used to supplement another.

lemeister

torqdj wrote: »

gone are the days when your actual tax on you wages paid for things,

Also gone are the days when the lowest rate of tax was over 30% - thankfully.