Civic Type R savaged on Top Gear

pburns

I know there is a seperate thread for TG but IMO discussions about cars belong HERE!

Anyway, great episode, apart from JC going massivly off piste discussing rugby with Lawrence Dilligeewoowoo or whatever-he's-called... And I like the audience participation - they should do that more!

CAR Magazine cited the new Type R as best hot hatch and it has had good reviews but it's hard to argue with Clarkson's criticisms - extra weight, no increase in power and worse handling...

antodeco

Have to agree. The interview went on for way to long. I love the new style type R. As JC said, extra weight and size will not be lightened by +1 BHP. Still, wouldnt mind one! The Type R Saloon is fantastic looking! Like a family version of a Teg DC5!

zero19

I hate how the hatch looks, i'd rather have an old Type-R Integra...

C_Breeze

thats exactly why i am not a great fan of top gear.

they have JC talking about rugby for a good portion when they could be discussing cars, they have your hamster man making "funny" jokes and the old geezer racing some guy swimming through muck :rolleyes: ... oh sure whats the point in buying a car to drive 65 miles when you can swim through muck and get there at the same time :rolleyes:


..... and after all this "entertainment" - you are meant to take their car criticism and opinions for gold! - I take the points that Jeremy made against the new typeR - but afterall his rambling - it got around the track quicker than a golf GTI (which sells by the bucketloads and is very popular) and is the Civic main competitor. So it cant be that bad of a car as he made out (and im not even a honda fanboy) but clarkson could talk you out of a wedding.

He probably made the guy in the audience who had one on order feel like sh*t

Atomic Pineapple

TheFD2 (Civic Type R saloon) is meant to be far better than the hatch version too, it looks lovely too, I dont like the look of the hatch at all.

E92

draffodx wrote: »

TheFD2 (Civic Type R saloon) is meant to be far better than the hatch version too, it looks lovely too, I dont like the look of the hatch at all.

But we ain't getting it as its only a JDM car(perhaps JHMEG could confirm this, since he knows Hondas like the back of his hand?). And for my 2c worth the saloon is sh1te looking compared to the hatch. The saloon will also have had the "benefit":rolleyes: of being designed foor the Asian/American market, so the interior will neither be as well made nor as nice looking as the hatch version(which was designed for Europe) if the non Type R models are anything to go by(speaking from having sat in both the saloon and hatch).

In the JDM car's favour is an extra 19 bhp though and the fact it has independant double wishbone suspension(this applies to all saloons, not just the Type-R) unlike the hatch version which has a torsion beam!

JHMEG

For a car that's apparently cr@p, it was still faster than the new Golf GTI around the track...

And E92 is right, the saloon is not coming this way (The interior tho is pretty much the same as the hatch including the mad dashboard).

In Japan they also have a Type RR saloon, which has had the Mugen makeover and is 240bhp.

C_Breeze

JHMEG wrote: »

For a car that's apparently cr@p, it was still faster than the new Golf GTI around the track...

JHMEG you're such a honda fanboy OMG VTEC WOHOOO - whenever theres the slightetst negative thing said about anything honda or VTEC youre in there like somebody offended your mother !

..but yeah thats exactly what i said

JHMEG

C_Breeze wrote: »

..but yeah thats exactly what i said

Folks, please welcome Mr Jeremy Clarkson himself to boards.ie motors forum.

(For the record C_Breeze is on an anti-Honda bent at the moment as he bought a 5-dr Rover saloon Civic VTI in the UK that he can't sell on cos they're manky)

Atomic Pineapple

yeh i know were not getting the type r saloon, pity.

and i agree with the comments about top gear becoming more of an entertainment show than a factual show about cars.

C_Breeze

JHMEG wrote: »

Folks, please welcome Mr Jeremy Clarkson himself to boards.ie motors forum.

(For the record C_Breeze is on an anti-Honda bent at the moment as he bought a 5-dr Rover saloon Civic VTI in the UK that he can't sell on cos they're manky)

For the record it was a VTi-S LTD Edition and sold after being driven 6,000miles with a 1,200euro profit - First guy to actually bother their arse to come see it snapped my hand off.

Still un-inpressed by all things honda though - great cars but very overrated.

thanks for proving my point though by feeling the need to refer to personal circumstances to protect the almighty 'H' :rolleyes:



dont know why you felt the need to have a go at me JHMEG when I was actually agreeing with you ... - or rather you agreeing with me if you bothered to read my previous post before yours.

JHMEG

C_Breeze wrote: »

dont know why you felt the need to have a go at me JHMEG when I was actually agreeing with you ... - or rather you agreeing with me if you bothered to read my previous post before yours.

Oh how we have short memories. You had a go at me on your two of your adverts.ie ads for that car for no apparent reason (not apparent to me anyway). I see you sold it on the third. So.. what comes around goes around.

unkel

No need to fight, lads! The Honda has poor performance and it isn't very comfortable either.

Let's try to let this thread go asleep

unkel

Someone told me I should not have closed this thread. He was right. So here it is back open again!

JHMEG

unkel wrote: »

The Honda has poor performance

I'll kickstart things by asking: relative to what?;) (And no smart answers like an M5 or an F360 etc)

Darando

Doesn't matter if he says its not a good car - still wouldn't last too long outside your house these days!

It did look rather nice though regardless of performance

JHMEG

I think Tiff Needell rated the new one as better on Fifth Gear.

unkel

JHMEG wrote: »

I'll kickstart things by asking: relative to what?;) (And no smart answers like an M5 or an F360 etc)

No smart answers here. My comment about poor performance was out of place. By all means the performance of the current Civic Type R is a match of its peers, like the VW Golf GTI

JHMEG

Well fair enough... and here was me gearing up for a good argument..

Masada

unkel wrote: »

No smart answers here. My comment about poor performance was out of place. By all means the performance of the current Civic Type R is a match of its peers, like the VW Golf GTI

Apparently theres an even more powerful one on the way with the possibility of a supercharger., I might be buying the jap one myself in the new year, I cant see why it was rated badly even though it was faster than the competition.,

tossy

Its pretty obvious they are scrapping the barrel at this stage,when they do a special its quite good and entertaining as it also is when the have a big car to review.

Last sunday they reviewed the civic type R and the alfa 159?? i mean come on-hardly hot of the assembly line cars! they also had an "extended" interview with larry dilagio!

It reminds of a top gear of old when faced with nothing new to review clarkson ripped the opel frontera apart again,for the crack like!

I will keep watching though

Blitzkrieger

antodeco wrote: »

Have to agree. The interview went on for way to long.

I just FF through the interview every week.

If you want a balanced car review, what are you doing watching Top Gear? You're not going to get a balanced review - you're going to get what the presenters think of it. And god bless the BBC for it. Because of the way they're funded they don't have to give a toss about advertising* revenue and can say what they like about cars. The value of this was shown with the A-class, when the entire motoring press were gushing over it and Clarkson said he thought the handling was crap. Then it rolled over during an elk test and suddenly the press were backpeddaling like nobody's business. It's very hard to find unbiased reporting these days. Magazines have to sell ad space and 'journalists' get so many freebies at press launches they're reluctant to give a car a bad review in case the gravy train stops.

The new Civic type R is getting good reviews in most motoring magazines. Some say that it's not as fun as the old car but is actually better to drive. Then again, see above.

As to the poor guy that bought one - one look at his hair would cause me to doubt his motives for buying one. Methinks jumping on the new bandwagon would have been high in his list of priorities.

Golfs and Civics are girls cars anyway.........



*Didn't the boss of Opel demand that all advertising be pulled from the BBC after Clarkson gave the Astra a bad review? "Uh, boss......."

High&Low

tossy wrote: »

Its pretty obvious they are scrapping the barrel at this stage,when they do a special its quite good and entertaining as it also is when the have a big car to review.

Last sunday they reviewed the civic type R and the alfa 159?? i mean come on-hardly hot of the assembly line cars! they also had an "extended" interview with larry dilagio!

It reminds of a top gear of old when faced with nothing new to review clarkson ripped the opel frontera apart again,for the crack like!

I will keep watching though

Top Gear was getting criticised for not reviewing "real" cars, so that's what it did this week. First time this series?

I didn't think the Laurence Dilagio interview was any longer than he had with a number of other far less interesting people, but maybe that's because I have an interest in rugby.

Its a shame the Stig didn't get to bring the estates around the track...

Stephen

I still want one

Also, camper racing is the future of motorsport

RobAMerc

Blitzkrieger wrote: »

*Didn't the boss of Opel demand that all advertising be pulled from the BBC after Clarkson gave the Astra a bad review? "Uh, boss......."

No it was the Peugeot 306 - and Clarkson later admitted it was actually quite good !

Thats the thing about TG - soon they'll be reviewing something else and they'll bring back eveyones favourite.... the Honda Civic type R

Thats just the way it is, if you watch old versions you'll see Clarkson often goes back on what they say and slag off cars they have given good reviews to or vice versa.

MarkN

I liked the idea of racing the new and old CTR - thought it was a nice way to do the comparison.

The CTR might have been less than a second quicker around the track than the Golf but anyone who knows TG or JC, knows he would take the GTI over the new CTR anyday, less than a second faster yes, better, no.

I have no doubt that he exaggerated how bad the Civic is, I'm only making the point as the comparison to the GTI was made earlier in the thread.

rabbitinlights

€45,000

cpoh1

MarkN wrote: »

The CTR might have been less than a second quicker around the track than the Golf but anyone who knows TG or JC, knows he would take the GTI over the new CTR anyday, less than a second faster yes, better, no.

How do you figure that? Surely if the civic is a smidgen heavier, has slightly less power (everyone knows the k20 comes out with less than 200bhp on the dyno) and is still faster around the track than the golf its better from a performance point of view?

Unless youre going on personal preference like Clarkson which is fair enough?

MarkN

cpoh1 wrote: »

How do you figure that? Surely if the civic is a smidgen heavier, has slightly less power (everyone knows the k20 comes out with less than 200bhp on the dyno) and is still faster around the track than the golf its better from a performance point of view?

Unless youre going on personal preference like Clarkson which is fair enough?

Better as in better car.

If it can go around a track less than a second quicker, that's cool but performance point of view is more than just a track with one driver. No point in starting a Civic Vs GTI thread here but only the most enthusiastic Honda fan would say the CTR is a better car for the real world (leaving all personal preferences out of the equation).

Saying all that, I bought an S3 because the GTIs were all over the place, I'm not saying the GTI is a perfect car either.

cpoh1

MarkN wrote: »

Better as in better car.

If it can go around a track less than a second quicker, that's cool but performance point of view is more than just a track with one driver. No point in starting a Civic Vs GTI thread here but only the most enthusiastic Honda fan would say the CTR is a better car for the real world (leaving all personal preferences out of the equation).

Im sorry I dont want to go offtopic either but youre not making any sense. How the hell is the golf a better hot hatch if its slower and doesnt handle as well despite being lighter than the civic???

Is it better looking? Have more space and better interior? All these things are completely up to the individual involved and his preferences. What you cant argue with however are the performance figures.

MarkN

I don't see how I'm not making sense TBH, that's a pretty weak line for when you have nothing else to say.

Nobody said it handles better, if anything the understeer was dreadful. The less than a second slower time could easily be shaved by a different driver.

Vegeta

cpoh1 wrote: »

Im sorry I dont want to go offtopic either but youre not making any sense. How the hell is the golf a better hot hatch if its slower and doesnt handle as well despite being lighter than the civic???

Is it better looking? Have more space and better interior? All these things are completely up to the individual involved and his preferences. What you cant argue with however are the performance figures.

Have to agree with this

you are not making any sense at all here

Vegeta

MarkN wrote: »

I don't see how I'm not making sense TBH, that's a pretty weak line for when you have nothing else to say.

Nobody said it handles better, if anything the understeer was dreadful. The less than a second slower time could easily be shaved by a different driver.

What are you talking about, the same driver drove both cars. The same amount of skill was used to drive both cars and the CTR came out on top. How you can argue with that is insane.

On a side note a second (or close to it) a lap is a big difference

Mitch Connor

Num 1. There may be more then 1 stig - there have been rumours.

Num 2. He isn't ACTUALLY a robot, so he will have good and bad days.

Num 3. Conditions would not have been the same for both cars.

Num 4. The Honda could simply suit Stig's style (or if more then one, the style of the Stig driving)

It is quite possible that the Civic cimply is faster around the track, but there are also a number of variables involved. No two laps will ever be the same and all that guff.

JHMEG

Look, some cars will always be better than other cars no matter what. The Golf GTI is better because of exactly that: it's a Golf GTI. It's just not possible for the CTR to be better.

Blitzkrieger

omg it's a troll........

Vegeta

Tauren wrote: »

Num 1. There may be more then 1 stig - there have been rumours.

Num 2. He isn't ACTUALLY a robot, so he will have good and bad days.

Num 3. Conditions would not have been the same for both cars.

Num 4. The Honda could simply suit Stig's style (or if more then one, the style of the Stig driving)

It is quite possible that the Civic cimply is faster around the track, but there are also a number of variables involved. No two laps will ever be the same and all that guff.

While what you say is true, a second is still a huge difference for one lap even considering all of the above

Mitch Connor

Vegeta wrote: »

While what you say is true, a second is still a huge difference for one lap even considering all of the above

Yes.

MarkN

So the best thing you lads can come up with is the sub 1 second quicker lap time.. a situation that 99% of CTR owners would never even experience... It's not exactly going to make you rush out and buy one is it. If the Focus ST can jump from 170bhp to 225 and the GTI can jump from 150 to 197bhp, then why didn't they give the Civic more power?? To me that is what probably WOULD make it better to own than the GTI.

JHMEG

Tauren wrote: »

Num 3. Conditions would not have been the same for both cars.

They might actually have been better for the Golf.

Tauren wrote: »

Num 4. The Honda could simply suit Stig's style (or if more then one, the style of the Stig driving)

Equally the Golf could have suited Stig's driving style better.

Tauren wrote: »

It is quite possible that the Civic cimply is faster around the track,

Also possible that it is more than 1 second faster.

All we know for sure is the CTR is quicker than the Golf.

C_Breeze

"All we know for sure is the CTR is quicker than the Golf."


...a 400euro ECU remap would sort that out for the Golf.




MarkN Good point made about the horspower increases over previous models, why could honda not have done the same?

JHMEG

I dunno. Maybe they're independent thinkers? Maybe they thought no point as the price of petrol will soon go thru the roof and no-one will buy and of them? Maybe they spent all the money on the hydrogen powered FCX? Or the hybrid? Or on the flip side maybe the new NSX will be so cheap that we could all afford one?

Vegeta

C_Breeze wrote: »

...a 400euro ECU remap would sort that out for the Golf.

Sure ya might as well the golf is over priced as it is, what's another 400 euro

MarkN

It's all relative.. I've lost barely E3,000 on the price of a GTI during a year of ownership of one.

I'll take the GTI with retro cool seats, 18s, the exhaust note, the incredible DSG box, the looks and the nice big turbo slapped onto it and cry into my beer everytime I think about how the new CTR is less than a second quicker around the track on TG thanks.

Wossack

rabbitinlights wrote: »

€45,000

thats lovely looking, but why white?



(I kinda know the answer already )

whippet

MarkN wrote: »

It's all relative.. I've lost barely E3,000 on the price of a GTI during a year of ownership of one.

I'll take the GTI with retro cool seats, 18s, the exhaust note, the incredible DSG box, the looks and the nice big turbo slapped onto it and cry into my beer everytime I think about how the new CTR is less than a second quicker around the track on TG thanks.

you took the words out of my mouth !!

jayok

JHMEG wrote: »

I dunno. Maybe they're independent thinkers? Maybe they thought no point as the price of petrol will soon go thru the roof and no-one will buy and of them? Maybe they spent all the money on the hydrogen powered FCX? Or the hybrid? Or on the flip side maybe the new NSX will be so cheap that we could all afford one?

Or maybe Honda have lost their very racing soul and are more that happy to put our generic sh1te for generic masses. The way I see it Honda's racing cars have gone downhill since the early 90's. Here's why:

1. Dropped the CRX
2. Dropped the Accord Type-R
3. Dropped a Civic VTi (the CTR doesn't count)
4. Dropped the NSX
5. Dropped Civic ESi
6. Dropped the Prelude (2.2 VTi yum)

All of the above have been dropped with no ready replacement!!

If you look at the Euro cars today that Honda have that could be consideed sporty you have two, the Civic CTR (supposedly sh1te) and the S2000. So in reality you've the S2000.

Consider the options in the early 1990's

1.CRX VTi
2. Civic VTi
3. Prelude VTi
4. NSX

All somewhat affordable and that doesn't even include the ESi SOHC models of the CRX or Civic.

The newer models are fatter, slower, and less involving to drive. Sure they are reliable, but so is a JCB tractor.

And don't even start with the HSC or FCX or any of that, as a product they are not realistically here yet.

To be fair to VW and the Golf GTI (and I am not a fan of VW by any stretch) at least they delivered a quick more responsive model that the outgoing one (not that it was upto much either). They've incorporate developments such a DSG and the like into it. HIDs are an option as is leather.

You can't even get HIDs in the Type R for that you'll need to buy a 5-door 1.8 Sport!

The new Type-R is a cheaply built, short term thrill machine. After a while it will become mundane. When the same happens to the GTI at least you have a decent car to use.

'Nuff said.

C_Breeze

jayok wrote: »

Or maybe Honda have lost their very racing soul and are more that happy to put our generic sh1te for generic masses. The way I see it Honda's racing cars have gone downhill since the early 90's. Here's why:

1. Dropped the CRX
2. Dropped the Accord Type-R
3. Dropped a Civic VTi (the CTR doesn't count)
4. Dropped the NSX
5. Dropped Civic ESi
6. Dropped the Prelude (2.2 VTi yum)

All of the above have been dropped with no ready replacement!!

If you look at the Euro cars today that Honda have that could be consideed sporty you have two, the Civic CTR (supposedly sh1te) and the S2000. So in reality you've the S2000.

Consider the options in the early 1990's

1.CRX VTi
2. Civic VTi
3. Prelude VTi
4. NSX

All somewhat affordable and that doesn't even include the ESi SOHC models of the CRX or Civic.

The newer models are fatter, slower, and less involving to drive. Sure they are reliable, but so is a JCB tractor.

And don't even start with the HSC or FCX or any of that, as a product they are not realistically here yet.

To be fair to VW and the Golf GTI (and I am not a fan of VW by any stretch) at least they delivered a quick more responsive model that the outgoing one (not that it was upto much either). They've incorporate developments such a DSG and the like into it. HIDs are an option as is leather.

You can't even get HIDs in the Type R for that you'll need to buy a 5-door 1.8 Sport!

The new Type-R is a cheaply built, short term thrill machine. After a while it will become mundane. When the same happens to the GTI at least you have a decent car to use.

'Nuff said.

Brilliant. Just Brilliant.

Somebody that knows something about honda with a un-biased opinion that isn't a Honda worshipping fanboy.

well said jayok

JHMEG

@jayok:
1. Rumoured to be on the return, not likely tho.
2. Accord Euro-R (there's an '05 near where I live)
3. Civic Type-S?
4. 2008
5. Current 1.8 is near enough
6. Accord Coupe is pretty much same segment (and has a V6).
7. Integra Type-R
8. Integra Type-R
9. Integra Type-R

S2000 is ceasing production in 2008. Don't think there's a replacement.

TBH I think they're shifting their focus and resources onto alternative fuels etc.

Aren't all new models bigger and fatter, and are HIDs or leather required to be a good car?!

Finally, I can't believe C_Breeze is still sore about that cr@ppy rover/civic that he couldn't sell...

Vegeta

lads all the debating in the world wont change that a supposedly worse car beat the GTI around the track on TG.

I have not once said that I think the CTR is a better car than the GTI but purely from a performance point of view the CTR came out ahead. How anyone can argue that is beyond me really but all the same.

I was calling a spade a spade, someone was spouting sh1te and I called them on it.

"Sure the CTR beat my beloved golf but it was windy the day the golf went out and the Stig ate an extra big brekky that day and everyone knows the golf is better anyway." :rolleyes:

That's bollox, if Honda have gone down hill a bit (and I think they have, in terms of performance) what does that say about the golf if the new slower CTR still beat it.

I would buy niether anyway, 40k for a jumped up hatch back, fcuk off thank you very much.

C_Breeze

JHMEG why cant you understand that it's not because im sore and youre just a biased fanboy. (drove it for 6000miles, sold it for 1200euro profit - why would i be sore)

It's not the only Honda i've ever driven you know - and i actually though it was quite a good car - just not the best because it was a honda!

I never said hondas are sh!te which you seem to assume - just not the best thing since sliced bread as you make them out to be!

Im not on an "anti-Honda bent" as you said - (i was quite clearly sticking up for the CTR at the beginning) - Honda brainwashed fanboys who wont give anything else a chance is what i cant stand

Ive driven Integras 1.8SIR . Civic Vti's Lsi's and Sir's and also Accrods. - All great cars , realible etc etc BUT WAY overrated. Especially the Vti / sir 1.6's which are sooo great because the skanger world says so.( They are absolutelly hopless on the motorway against my current V6 - first hand experience against a friends 1.6 - and dont doubt it because from 60 mph up to XXX mph he was falling back) - 0 -60 yeah great he was pulling away by a tiny bit but how many times do you really get to do that.

Point is , i dont hate honda, yes they are great cars - no they are not the best cars out there and WOW can you believe it they are not to everyones taste! - and not everybody has to agree with you .




Oh and one more thing , if you have such a grudge against the 5 Door 1.8 LTD edition VTi-S DOHC VTEC Civic i used to own- why are you not defending hondas decision to use the "Rover" body shape - Surely all decision that the Oh So Great almighty H make are good, no? ... It is a Honda at the end of the day - Go on admit it , you loved it!


...afterall you were curiosuly posting on my adverts criticising and inquiring about it saying that you were interested in it and you wanted to get one yourself from the UK - Or was I right that you were just trying to thread spoil and was my "having a go at you" warranted in the end??

...im sure anybody would take it over your old rust bucket 91 xsi anyway