Learner Drivers - Treated Like Crap?

Nightwish

At the moment I'm learning to drive and I'm starting from scratch by taking lessons every week without fail with an excellent instructor. Last week I took the plunge and began driving on my own to and from work which is about 1.5 miles from my house. Now I know I make mistakes like putting the car into the wrong gear, cutting out at the roundabout or a bit slow taking off, but why is it that other motorists treat me like crap? I am practising every day and I'm making less and less mistakes but when I get other motorists beeping at me for cutting out the car at a junction, it really rattles my confidence, which is where my problem lies - I'm petrified of driving. Do any other learner drivers experience beeping, hand gestures and angry looks from other motorists?

kaimera

Yes, yes they are.

Fact of life really, people forget that they were learners themselves at one stage.

cazzy

People arent supposed to use a horn at L drivers. Its cases them to become more anxious and could cause an accident.
Someone did it at me during a driving lesson in an offical school car and the instructor said he has got out of the car in the past an given those beepers an earfull as what they did was illegal!
Its cause drvers in Ireland are ignorent and forget what it was like to learn to drive even though everyone had to learn.
Dont let them casue you to come out at a junction quicker. Take your time and ignore them. Its them that has the poblem not you.

Gauge

My mother has a friend who drives a Punto. Her son is now learning to drive in it so she put L Plates up. She can't believe how other drivers act around her on the road now, dangerous overtaking and blaring their horns at her all the time!

I can't wait til my L Plates are gone. I'm sick of having horns blasted at me if I linger at a green light for more than .0005 of a second.

cson

Throw a baseball bat in the back seat (preferably covered with barbed wire). Next time someone beeps the horn at you unneccessarily, neutral + handbrake + hazards, get out of the car, get the bat, go over to the offender and ask them wtf their problem is.

IrishPhoenix

OP - I totally feel for you. Just started from scratch myself and am in the same boat as you. I'm also getting lessons every week but as you know, need to practice as well. I have a licensed driver in the passenger seat beside me and I don't drive dangerously. I'm slower starting off from roundabouts and junctions because I don't want to stall or cause an accident.

And yet the other drivers act like jerks.:mad:

You have my utmost sympathies.

Wishbone Ash

Nightwish wrote: »

Last week I took the plunge and began driving on my own

Are you legally required to be accompanied?

Wertz

Ah good old L plate hate. I just give them the fingers.

Hagar

There used to be a respect and an amount of tolerance to L-plated cars. That was in the good old days when only learners used them. Nowadays they are just a camouflage for un-qualified drivers as distinct from learner drivers and the motoring public can't tell them apart so it treats all L-plated cars as non-learners.

Wertz

It's funny because I treat all BMW and SUV drivers with a similar disdain.

parliament

cazzy wrote: »

People arent supposed to use a horn at L drivers. Its cases them to become more anxious and could cause an accident.
Someone did it at me during a driving lesson in an offical school car and the instructor said he has got out of the car in the past an given those beepers an earfull as what they did was illegal!
Its cause drvers in Ireland are ignorent and forget what it was like to learn to drive even though everyone had to learn.
Dont let them casue you to come out at a junction quicker. Take your time and ignore them. Its them that has the poblem not you.

I'm sure most people have a bit of patience for learner drivers in school cars because it is quite evident that they are learning to drive. You can't expect everybody to give way and not get annoyed at a car just because they have L plates attached. Whos to say the driver isn't on their 2nd or 3rd provisional license, at that stage they are expected to know how to drive so its seems a bit crazy that you cant beep at them. If I see a learner plate and a single occupant car and they do something stupid I will beep them, sure if they get rattled they shouldn't be driving alone.

cazzy

Well it used to be against the ROTR - dont know if it still is
A driver is not supposed to use a horn between certain hours, near animals and at a L driver. Animals and L drivers can panic and act unpredictable.
Obviously if they were about to cause an accident you'd have to beep at them but beeping cause they are just slow or stalling is ignorent.

Nightwish

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

Are you legally required to be accompanied?

I'm on my second privisional at the moment. In a previous thread I explained how I got my first provisional at 18 and got a few lessons but my instructor died about an hour after one of my lessons and I was freaked. I was always nervous so I foolishly put off learning to drive until now.

mikemac

Ah bad memories.
I have my full licence but my younger brothers and sisters don't so anytime I'm in the family car the L plates are up.

I think it's far worse in Dublin, people are more agressive.
If I was a top of a queue and the lights changed I'd be getting beeped if I didn't move with the reaction speed of Fernando Alonso.
And I've have people undertaking me at lights :eek:

In short, having L plates means a lot of disrespect coming your way.

Now I drive a motorcycle and I treat all car drivers equally......with contempt:cool:

Wishbone Ash

parliament wrote: »

at that stage they are expected to know how to drive so its seems a bit crazy that you cant beep at them

What does sounding your horn achieve?

I can understand someone doing it if a vehicle suddenly changes lane although personally I think if a driver has time to lean on the horn then it can't have been that close.

I don't think I've used the horn in anger this year yet and I do a fair bit of driving in different vehicles but maybe I'm more patient than the average motorist.

I'm always puzzled at those morons who blow when the driver in front has allowed the engine to stall! Do they think that their horn will assist with the restart? :rolleyes:

parliament wrote:

If I see a learner plate and a single occupant car and they do something stupid I will beep them

And again, what does that achieve? Are you some sort of Dirty Harry who is out there to clean up the streets?

Wishbone Ash

Nightwish wrote: »

I'm on my second privisional at the moment. In a previous thread I explained how I got my first provisional at 18 and got a few lessons but my instructor died about an hour after one of my lessons and I was freaked. I was always nervous so I foolishly put off learning to drive until now.

Fair enough. Good luck with it.

(At least I asked rather than make the accusations first like many do ! )

Tails142

No - I'm sorry, I have NO sympathy for L-drivers out on public roads.

When I was learning to drive my father took me to an industrial estate at night where there was no traffic and that was where I learned to 'master' :rolleyes: the clutch.

I am sick to death of idiots who cant drive causing me untold delay - particularily in my housing estate; where all the local roads are clogged with morons pootling along at 15 miles an hour, reversing around corners and generally being a complete nuisance while the residents just have to accept being inconvenienced.

I remember one time I was stuck behind a Churchtown School of Motoring car that sat in the middle of a T-junction for 3 minutes - WITH NO TRAFFIC IN ANY DIRECTION EXCEPT FOR ME BEHIND, I eventually resorted to blowing the horn, and then after still no more movement, I had to resort to driving on the wrong side of the road to get around to go the extra 15 metres to my driveway. I felt like punching the instructor in the face. Sure maybe its just me being impatient, but when this **** happens on a daily basis it wears you down.

There are regularly huge tailbacks on the T juntions out of my estate which lead onto a semi-busy main road, maybe 7 or 8 cars, all because there is some idiot who shouldnt be out on the roads at the front, who wont pull out until there is a 2 minute gap in the traffic. It makes me want to scream sometimes.

Hopefully they will put ramps in my estate soon which will deter these driving schools. If you dont yet have the driving skill to travel at the correct speed or drive without stalling at every junction piss off to an industrial esate at night or large carpark somewhere. Stop inconveniencing all of us drivers that are just trying to commute with as little delay as possible!!! :mad:

Nightwish

Wishbone Ash wrote:

Fair enough. Good luck with it.
(At least I asked rather than make the accusations first like many do ! )

Thanks! I'm kinda feeling a bit better that its not only me who gets beeped, and the fingers, but its really pathetic that people would do that. It happened me once in the driving school car but now I'm taking lessons in my own car, so it happens a lot more.

@Tails142 I'm glad you were able to learn in an industrial estate, but there is no such place in my town to do that. You're also blessed with being able to drive relatively quickly, but some of us aren't. I dont go around housing estates either when I'm doing lessons. I am simply driving to and from work, which is mainly across a ring road where there are 4 very busy roundabouts.

Tails142

I dont go around housing estates either when I'm doing lessons. I am simply driving to and from work, which is mainly across a ring road where there are 4 very busy roundabouts.

Yeah that sounds like the perfect place to learn to drive :rolleyes: The industrial estate I learned to drive in was 20 minutes drive away - hardly nearby but suited the purpose. I dont know where you live but I'm sure you could find somewhere more suitable to get in your practice - at the end of the day you're only stressing yourself and everyone else around you out.

Wishbone Ash

Tails142 wrote: »

If you dont yet have the driving skill to travel at the correct speed or drive without stalling at every junction piss off to an industrial esate at night or large carpark somewhere

If you don't have the proper mentality for driving on a public road you should seek alternative methods of transport.

Tails142 wrote:

Stop inconveniencing all of us drivers that are just trying to commute with as little delay as possible!!! :mad:

Oh the irony! Does it not occur to you that it is "all of us drivers trying to commute" that is the main cause of your delay. :rolleyes:

Nightwish

Well last week a person who beeped me for being slow taking off at a roundabout, made me panic and I cut out the car. If he hadn't beeped he wouldnt have spent an extra 10 seconds behind me.

@Tails142 as I said there is NOWHERE in my town do drive around. The industrial estate is locked from 7pm and the only other carpark is full of boy racers doing doughnuts. I think in order to learn to use the ring road, the only way is by form of practise - which I do 5 days a week. Its not as if I cut out/stall the car every day, just 3 times on 10 journeys. If anyone wants to get past me, there is plenty of room for overtaking too.

chris85

If you are cutting out regularly you obviously should not be on the road, you aint good enough to be out on your own and this is why the new rules bout learners came in.

You may say as well that you are cutting out due to panicing when other motorists get angry. The reason why people panic is that they dont feel in control of the car so when something goes wrong they dont know what to do. This will stop when you get experience (with an experienced driver)

You need to just relax with the driving and just get practice with experienced driver, this will solve your problem of cutting out and just general progression.

Honestly if you cant find the gear you are meant to be in then get more lessons and wait to you are ready.

I will get slack for this but the reason for the new rules is that people have an experienced person with them who can point out what they are doing wrong. How can a learner driver improve if they dont know what they are doing wrong.

Nightwish

The panicking only sets in when people are beeping at me. In the evenings when there is significantly less traffic, I am perfectly fine. No-one gives me any hassle and I dont make any of those silly mistakes.

chris85

Nightwish wrote: »

The panicking only sets in when people are beeping at me. In the evenings when there is significantly less traffic, I am perfectly fine. No-one gives me any hassle and I dont make any of those silly mistakes.

I know were you are coming from but you gotta be able to drive without panicing in any situation.

Driving is all about reacting so if you are panicing and not doing things correctly when people beep, then what happens when a car swerves in front of you or someone jumps out in front of you??

Im just saying that you may need bit more time practising so you will be good enough to deal with any situation.

DonJose

Nightwish wrote: »

At the moment I'm learning to drive and I'm starting from scratch by taking lessons every week without fail with an excellent instructor. Last week I took the plunge and began driving on my own to and from work which is about 1.5 miles from my house. Now I know I make mistakes like putting the car into the wrong gear, cutting out at the roundabout or a bit slow taking off, but why is it that other motorists treat me like crap? I am practising every day and I'm making less and less mistakes but when I get other motorists beeping at me for cutting out the car at a junction, it really rattles my confidence, which is where my problem lies - I'm petrified of driving. Do any other learner drivers experience beeping, hand gestures and angry looks from other motorists?

Surely the accompanying driver is giving you tips and correcting your mistakes.

Wishbone Ash

DonJose wrote: »

Surely the accompanying driver is giving you tips and correcting your mistakes.

It may be an idea to read through the thread first! :rolleyes:

Gauge

This thread parallels the real life experiences of a learner driver in a strange way!

DonJose

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

It may be an idea to read through the thread first! :rolleyes:

Well from the first post it sounded like the driver was driving a few weeks, not on his 2nd provisional. Just shows how fecked the system is that the OP is allowed drive on his own after his own admissions.

I've been behind some muppet L drivers at the Newland Cross and the idiots car cuts out then the lights turn red, great another 5 minute wait for the lights to turn green.

Nightwish

"Him" is in fact a "her".

I can drive - I just make minor mistakes and can be slow to take off. I've seen people with full licences stall cars, or put the car into the wrong gear. I just feel that other motorists are extremely rude. My housemate has noticed since she took down her L-plates that she doesnt get the same level of aggression from other motorists.

Wishbone Ash

Nightwish wrote: »

My housemate has noticed since she took down her L-plates that she doesnt get the same level of aggression from other motorists.

The funny thing about those people who sound the horn at learners is that they are usually people who have passed a category B test only yet they think that they are God's gift on the roads.

When I was doing lessons in a motorcycle, rigid truck, articulated truck and the bus no one ever blew their horn at me even though I made the odd mistake.

The next time a male beeps at you (it's usually males) just think that they must have a tiny penis and are trying to make up for it by displaying their prowess in the car.

TwoShedsJackson

It's not illegal to sound your horn at a learner, but it's usually pointless. What a lot of drivers don't seem to understand is that the horn is supposed to be used to alert other drivers to a dangerous or potentially dangerous situtation - ''it's not a videogame buzzer'' as I read somewhere.

However, most drivers just use their horn as a means to express their frustration at what they perceive to be slowness to react, take off etc. or to 'vocalise' the aggression that increases in most people when they get behind the wheel of a car.

If someone in front of you is taking the piss e.g. doing their makeup, on the phone etc. and is being slow because of that, by all means use the horn, but if you can see they've stalled etc. don't.

guy_awoke

For many people, the car is the ultimate makeover. It's a means of going out and being a bully in a way that is unfortunately seen as socially acceptable in this country. In the movie Vanishing Point, there's a scene where a road runner dork in an open sports car catches up with Kowalski and taunts him, trying to edge him off the road, but our hero nurses his engine up to the right point and with some skillful footwork zooms off into the distance. nice.

Not for a moment suggesting that anyone drives like either of them lol but when I see typical bad and aggressive behaviour on the roads including impatient horn blowing I always think of that dorky guy in the helmet and give him a Dublin accent, it eases the vibe a little and puts them in their true place.

SeanW

parliament wrote: »

If I see a learner plate and a single occupant car and they do something stupid I will beep them, sure if they get rattled they shouldn't be driving alone.

I assume you didn't do that on the day of your driving test.

Becasue if an L-plater is already rattled at having stalled their engine or missing a clearing to make a turn, and you blow the horn at them, you're doing nothing to mitigate or react properly to a potential hazard. You are potentially making it worse.

As for your "shouldn't be driving alone" comment, until June 30 next year that statement will not be true for 2nd provisional licenseholders. So you have no business assming that a particular L-plater "shouldn't be on the road" unless you've seen their license.

To answer the OPs quesiton, I've been using my L-plates for about a year now (2nd provisional) and haven't been subject to any kind of agression on the roads, the only time I got hassled was when my driving was crap and I didn't have them up before.

Caychadh

How many lessons have you had, nightwish?
It seems that you are stressing yourself out by driving to work- I read your previous posts and am glad you've taken the plunge to drive but you shouldn't feel you need to push yourself either. Driving to work 5 days a week is stressful for all drivers, especially nervous ones! I always used to dread cutting out at lights (does it feel like you always end up first in the queue!!?) but even really experienced drivers do.. but it's only idiots who'll beep you. It achieves nothing. I hope when the 'learner' system is sorted they might be more tolerant. (although, there will probably be hover-cars or some such by then.) :rolleyes:

As a learner myself; one thing I'm baffled by is people beeping at red traffic lights. I've seen this on several occasions and never fail to be baffled by the idiocy of it.

Gauge

The person behind me beeped twice today as soon as the light went green... literally, as soon as it changed from red to green, I had my hand on the handbrake and by the time I'd put it down I'd been beeped!

What did they hope to achieve, that I'd suddenly be inspired to zoom off at 100km/h in two seconds flat? What's the point? Some people (*cough*includingmydad*cough*) just seem to get so bothered when they're behind a learner for a few minutes that they expect them to do something wrong and are ready to react, even if they end up doing nothing wrong!

kodute

@Tails142 Quiet you!

DonJose wrote:

muppet L drivers

shur they are all muppets aren't they :rolleyes:

Nightwish, relax take and it handy, the more considerate drivers will let you make mistakes and be patient. When i was learning with my ma in the car, id stall and some **** hot driver started leaning on his horn, she would say the only way to show them is to outdrive them.
Turn the other cheek and be a better driver than them!

Wishbone Ash

Caychadh wrote: »

As a learner myself; one thing I'm baffled by is people beeping at red traffic lights. I've seen this on several occasions and never fail to be baffled by the idiocy of it.

Possibly because there is a green directional arrow displayed in conjunction with the red light. It happens regularly at lights near me. Inexperienced drivers or those not familiar with the junction stop in the right lane when they want to go straight. When the green right arrow displays, they are obstructing the vehicles behind and often not aware of why they are beeping. Then the green arrow goes out and the normal green light appears and the inexperienced driver continues as normal perplexed as to what the fuss was about.

(I'm not saying this happens in you case but it does! )

rain on

I've never been beeped at or given hassle in ~6 months of driving, mind you I tend to do all my stupidest things on quiet back roads. My ma says other drivers are actually nicer to me than they are to her. I figure it's the dazzling charm that emanates from the car every time I grace the roads with my presence (or that my ma is a bit of a hames of a driver).

pete4130

I've got L plates up in my car. I've got my full licence but other people still use the car that are learners. I don't seem to get any of this aggression in my car which is a focus estate, but when I'm driving my sisters car (rover metro) with L plates up there is an increased level of aggression. I think there is a mentality that if you have L plates in a smaller car then its assumed you are a learner, whereas in a larger car it is assumed that you have a full licence and have the plates up for someone else to use to car to learn in.
Maybe I'm wrong about that preconception about car size & L plates?
The day I passed my test I felt no different as regards my driving. I'm always courteous to all other polite road users and do give extra time to cars displaying L plates.

pow wow

pete4130 wrote: »

I've got L plates up in my car. I've got my full licence but other people still use the car that are learners. I don't seem to get any of this aggression in my car which is a focus estate, but when I'm driving my sisters car (rover metro) with L plates up there is an increased level of aggression. I think there is a mentality that if you have L plates in a smaller car then its assumed you are a learner, whereas in a larger car it is assumed that you have a full licence and have the plates up for someone else to use to car to learn in.
Maybe I'm wrong about that preconception about car size & L plates?
The day I passed my test I felt no different as regards my driving. I'm always courteous to all other polite road users and do give extra time to cars displaying L plates.

That's very true!

Also my instructor said people are much more courteous to you when you're in the school car (with the whacking great sign on the roof) than they are if you're just in your own car with L plates up.

To the OP, the cutting out will pass. The clutch in the car I used to learn to drive was a nightmare and to begin with cutting out + beeeeeeeep from car behind = panic. It can be very daunting when you are only learning and for people to say 'oh well if you're bothered at people beeping at you then you shouldn't be on the road' is a bit harsh. However, if it takes you to the point of being a hazard to yourself and other users then yes, you should ease off driving alone and get a couple of lessons in. My instructor also used to say that beeping is just a noise, that's all it is. You shouldn't be frightened of it.

Qualified drivers can cut out at lights too you know. My sister (who owns said car with nightmare clutch and is a qualified driver for over 10 years) does it occasionally.

Stark

I rarely had problems with other drivers when driving with L-plates up (2nd prov). I actually found things were a bit harder after I passed my test and took them down, as other drivers gave me less leeway.

But really OP, get yourself an experienced driver to accompany you. I used to find driving on the roads extremely nerve wracking too when I was a newbie. There was one incident where I got really flustered and my dad had to end up swapping seats with me and drive the car somewhere quieter where I could relax again. I wouldn't dream of going out alone at your level of experience.

Wishbone Ash

rain on wrote: »

I figure it's the dazzling charm that emanates from the car every time I grace the roads with my presence

LOL

Ger the man

Same old problem, plus its here to stay. I gave up driving to work because of the stress (passed my test 9 years ago and no accidents to date). I feel sorry for people learning now as the roads are a nightmare, everyone is more important than everyone else and road manners do not exist. As I cycle along I pass cars of all shapes and sizes, most of which have one person in them.

ZorbaTehZ

I used to get such abuse when I started too.
I remember one time in particular when I was on a driving lesson in the instructors car, and I came up to this busy roundabout in Galway City. It was only about my second/third time taking a roundabout and I was waiting for a gap before I moved out.

Anyways there was this Van behind me with 2 early 20's (presumably tradesmen from the ladders etc.) in it. One of the guys rolled down his window and started taunting me! He was saying things like "Get off the road", "Are you ever going to ****ing move", "Learn to drive" and then when I moved off "About ****ing time!". The funniest thing about it was that I wouldn't have heard him only for my window was down slightly.

j1979p

Yeah I got beeped at a light yesterday morning. Didn't stall, just took an extra 2 seconds to get off as I was being careful not to stall. Afterwards, I was v annoyed but really I cannot say anything as I am driving unaccompanied on a 1st prov. I think of it like he was beeping me for this offence. Makes me feel a bit better!

cson

A lot of pink licence-ers have short memories is all I can say. Especially at roundabouts, nearly cut in half today by an X5 that decided to use the inside lane to go straight on at a roundabout.

LuckyStar

I was having a lesson-in the instructor's car with a big red and white SCHOOL OF MOTORING sign on top- last night and got beeped at twice!!! I was at a busy junction, the instructor told me to take it easy because if I was hasty I might pull out in front of someone. Just because I didn't zoom from 0-60 in 3.5 seconds, I got beeped at!!! My instructor says to just ignore them.

Diemos

I have to say driving in Dublin with L plates is a nightmare, I took mine down after a week, Taxi drivers and BMW drivers (I know not all BMW drivers are <snip> and some do use their indicators occasionally, but I digress) I've had no trouble since.

I was vindicated in my belief when driving to my driving test with my L plates up, a Focus tried to pull out in front of me at a roundabout but realise he couldn't make it, once I passed him, we both took the next exit, he drove right up behind me, tailgating in a low gear revving his engine. When I was learning this would have really put me off, but after 2 years of driving I've developed a hard skin from idiots like this.

WindSock

Don't worry OP, it really is nerve wracking at first. There is so much going on around you and to try and get the hang of the controls and everything is especially stressful with loads of cars behind you. I have to say, I have never been beeped when I stalled, which was a lot when I started. Mind you, I probably wouldnt have heard, as I need music to calm my nerves
However, I have come across a lot of arrogant assholes doing dangerous things, and they think they have the right to do them just because they have no l-plates. Just remember, you may be learning, but the rules and correct way to drive will be fresher in your head, than in theirs. And...Show NO fear

Nightwish

Well in the past week I dont think I've stalled or cut out once. I've safely negotiated the nightmare roundabout at work everyday and am beginning to be a bit calmer. That said, still lots of tailgating and people giving me angry looks for taking that extra 3 seconds to pull out onto a road or roundabout. My skin is getting thicker I suppose.

cance

Nightwish wrote: »

Well in the past week I dont think I've stalled or cut out once. I've safely negotiated the nightmare roundabout at work everyday and am beginning to be a bit calmer. That said, still lots of tailgating and people giving me angry looks for taking that extra 3 seconds to pull out onto a road or roundabout. My skin is getting thicker I suppose.

to hell with them, we all have to learn sometime.

I'm experiencing the same as you tbh, first day driving to work on my own through sandyford. I drive a skoda octavia, i got beeped alot more when i was in the yaris.